1 00:01:11,230 --> 00:02:36,350 - Welcome to my office. 2 00:02:36,350 --> 00:02:44,140 - Thank you. 3 00:02:44,140 --> 00:02:45,730 - My phone's checked from council chambers. 4 00:02:45,730 --> 00:02:49,310 Mr. Chima, can you hear remotely? 5 00:02:49,310 --> 00:02:50,250 - Yes. - Okay. 6 00:02:50,250 --> 00:08:11,030 - Thank you very much. 7 00:08:11,030 --> 00:08:12,170 - Okay, if everyone grabs their spots, 8 00:08:12,170 --> 00:08:32,670 we're about to start. 9 00:08:32,670 --> 00:08:33,510 - Hey, welcome. 10 00:08:33,510 --> 00:08:34,940 This is the third meeting of audit committee. 11 00:08:34,940 --> 00:08:36,860 The city of London is situated on the traditional 12 00:08:36,860 --> 00:08:37,080 lands 13 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,180 of the Nashback, Haudenosaunee, Lenapawak, 14 00:08:39,180 --> 00:08:40,010 and Anawandran. 15 00:08:40,010 --> 00:08:41,740 We honor and respect the history, languages, 16 00:08:41,740 --> 00:08:43,110 and culture, the diverse indigenous people 17 00:08:43,110 --> 00:08:45,010 who call this territory home. 18 00:08:45,010 --> 00:08:46,240 The city of London is currently home 19 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,610 to many First Nation, Métis, and Inuit today. 20 00:08:48,610 --> 00:08:49,950 As representatives of the people of the city 21 00:08:49,950 --> 00:08:51,100 of London, we are grateful to have the 22 00:08:51,100 --> 00:08:51,320 opportunity 23 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:53,410 to work and live in this territory. 24 00:08:53,410 --> 00:08:55,130 The City of London is committed to making every 25 00:08:55,130 --> 00:08:55,420 effort 26 00:08:55,420 --> 00:08:57,310 to provide alternate formats and communications 27 00:08:57,310 --> 00:08:57,580 reports 28 00:08:57,580 --> 00:08:58,640 for meetings upon request. 29 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:00,620 To make a request specific to this meeting, 30 00:09:00,620 --> 00:09:05,030 please contact accessibility@london.ca or 519-661 31 00:09:05,030 --> 00:09:05,780 -2489 32 00:09:05,780 --> 00:09:12,350 extension 2425. 33 00:09:12,350 --> 00:09:15,090 Everyone's information, I'm joined in chambers 34 00:09:15,090 --> 00:09:17,780 by Councillor Cuddy and Stevenson. 35 00:09:17,780 --> 00:09:20,800 Councillor Pribble will not be joining us today. 36 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:26,270 and Member Chima will need to leave around 1.1.30 37 00:09:26,270 --> 00:09:26,480 . 38 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:31,500 With that in mind, Member Chima, 39 00:09:31,500 --> 00:09:33,310 there is a matter for a confidential session. 40 00:09:33,310 --> 00:09:35,110 Do you have a preference if you want to change of 41 00:09:35,110 --> 00:09:35,360 order 42 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:44,640 to deal with that before your departure? 43 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:46,940 - But preferably if it's going to be a permit to 44 00:09:46,940 --> 00:09:51,910 you. 45 00:09:51,910 --> 00:09:53,350 - No, it will have quorum for all of it 46 00:09:53,350 --> 00:09:55,350 as long as Councillor Cuddy and Stevenson stay 47 00:09:55,350 --> 00:09:57,140 with me. 48 00:09:57,140 --> 00:09:58,600 I have chuckles, I assume that means yes. 49 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,310 So it was just respecting that you're the one off 50 00:10:01,310 --> 00:10:01,430 site 51 00:10:01,430 --> 00:10:03,500 and you have a time constraint. 52 00:10:03,500 --> 00:10:05,160 Would you prefer the agenda as it's laid out 53 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:08,180 or confidential first. 54 00:10:08,180 --> 00:10:10,010 - Adult purpose, whatever works best as we have 55 00:10:10,010 --> 00:10:11,720 planned. 56 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:13,570 - Okay, I'll proceed with agenda as it's laid out 57 00:10:13,570 --> 00:10:14,250 then 58 00:10:14,250 --> 00:10:17,750 as we will have quorum. 59 00:10:17,750 --> 00:10:18,910 Okay, looking to committee members 60 00:10:18,910 --> 00:10:21,330 for disclosures of security interest. 61 00:10:21,330 --> 00:10:24,890 I have none in chambers, I've seen none online. 62 00:10:24,890 --> 00:10:27,090 Consent, we have none, scheduled items we have 63 00:10:27,090 --> 00:10:27,420 none. 64 00:10:27,420 --> 00:10:29,350 Takes us to items for direction. 65 00:10:29,350 --> 00:10:32,080 Up first, we have the 2025 financial audit. 66 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:37,520 It would have a staff or review, 67 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:42,410 the presentation from 15 to 20 minutes, 68 00:10:42,410 --> 00:10:43,360 and then the findings. 69 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:44,700 Could I have a mover to get this on the floor, 70 00:10:44,700 --> 00:10:46,090 and then we'll start with the staff presentations 71 00:10:46,090 --> 00:10:46,190 . 72 00:10:46,090 --> 00:10:47,430 Moved by Councillor Cuddy, 73 00:10:47,430 --> 00:10:50,130 seconded by Councillor Stevenson. 74 00:10:50,130 --> 00:10:53,750 I will go to City staff to frame it up for us, 75 00:10:53,750 --> 00:10:58,030 and then Ms. Danbock, as always, 76 00:10:58,030 --> 00:10:59,120 the five minutes does not work, 77 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,820 so you will have 15 to 20, 78 00:11:01,820 --> 00:11:03,400 and I see no objections from committee. 79 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:05,140 So when it comes to your turn, 80 00:11:05,140 --> 00:11:06,990 you can grieve between sentences 81 00:11:06,990 --> 00:11:09,400 unlike before what I've done to you. 82 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:17,030 City staff, Mr. Collins, Ms. Berbone, all yours. 83 00:11:17,030 --> 00:11:19,230 - Thank you, Chair, through the committee, 84 00:11:19,230 --> 00:11:20,890 or through the Chair to the committee, 85 00:11:20,890 --> 00:11:23,860 just wanna quickly highlight what was contained 86 00:11:23,860 --> 00:11:26,600 in the package related to the 2025 Financial 87 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:27,510 Presentations 88 00:11:27,510 --> 00:11:29,720 in 4.1A. 89 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:33,310 And consistent with years prior, 90 00:11:33,310 --> 00:11:35,390 the overview of the 2025 Financial Statements 91 00:11:35,390 --> 00:11:37,430 provides why we're presenting it. 92 00:11:37,430 --> 00:11:39,860 And in accordance with section 2941 of the 93 00:11:39,860 --> 00:11:41,020 Municipal Act, 94 00:11:41,020 --> 00:11:43,390 we also break down the statements contained 95 00:11:43,390 --> 00:11:45,630 within our consolidated financial statements, 96 00:11:45,630 --> 00:11:47,860 recognizing that our financial statements 97 00:11:47,860 --> 00:11:50,280 represent the consolidated entity of the city of 98 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:50,650 London, 99 00:11:50,650 --> 00:11:53,320 which includes our 14 boards and commissions, 100 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:55,440 three proportionately consolidated entities 101 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:57,350 and three government business entities. 102 00:11:57,350 --> 00:12:02,270 So 561 binder or a PDF document that you have 103 00:12:02,270 --> 00:12:02,790 received 104 00:12:02,790 --> 00:12:05,680 is very full, some containing a number of the 105 00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:05,940 boards 106 00:12:05,940 --> 00:12:08,850 and commissions of the city of London. 107 00:12:08,850 --> 00:12:11,030 Just wanted to highlight in our slide deck 108 00:12:11,030 --> 00:12:14,400 what comprises our statement of financial 109 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:14,760 positions, 110 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,950 our financial assets in 2025 increased by 281.2 111 00:12:18,950 --> 00:12:19,730 million 112 00:12:19,730 --> 00:12:22,050 related to predominantly for an increase 113 00:12:22,050 --> 00:12:23,990 in our portfolio investments, 114 00:12:23,990 --> 00:12:26,030 as well as long-term receivables 115 00:12:26,030 --> 00:12:28,100 related to development charge deferral 116 00:12:28,100 --> 00:12:30,410 and alternative payment arrangements 117 00:12:30,410 --> 00:12:32,200 in regards to development charges. 118 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:34,360 On that note, our financial liability is also 119 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:34,870 increased 120 00:12:34,870 --> 00:12:37,220 by 47.3 million. 121 00:12:37,220 --> 00:12:39,600 Nor will be due to deferred revenue increases 122 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:41,200 from development charges, deferral, 123 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:42,910 and alternative payment arrangements, 124 00:12:42,910 --> 00:12:46,710 as well as long-term debt that we issued in 2025. 125 00:12:46,710 --> 00:12:48,620 Overall, from a financial position, 126 00:12:48,620 --> 00:12:53,410 our net financial assets increased $233.9 million 127 00:12:53,410 --> 00:12:53,710 . 128 00:12:53,710 --> 00:12:55,140 The non-financial assets, 129 00:12:55,140 --> 00:12:57,810 which is predominantly the city's infrastructure, 130 00:12:57,810 --> 00:12:59,500 our tangible capital assets, 131 00:12:59,500 --> 00:13:03,410 increased by $252.6 million. 132 00:13:03,410 --> 00:13:04,820 At the end of the year, 133 00:13:04,820 --> 00:13:07,140 the city had an accumulated surplus 134 00:13:07,140 --> 00:13:11,060 486.6 million in accordance with Public Sector 135 00:13:11,060 --> 00:13:12,000 Accounting Standards. 136 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,490 One of the items that we like to highlight for 137 00:13:14,490 --> 00:13:16,730 Audit Committee and for Council is some of the 138 00:13:16,730 --> 00:13:19,220 notable capital projects that were recognized in 139 00:13:19,220 --> 00:13:21,800 2025 or were capitalized onto the city's 140 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:22,200 financial 141 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:26,810 statements. So just to highlight some of those 142 00:13:26,810 --> 00:13:30,430 major items, we had the East London Link and 143 00:13:30,430 --> 00:13:33,860 Municipal Improvements Phase 3C at Library Avenue 144 00:13:33,860 --> 00:13:37,100 capitalized at 25.9 million. We rebuilt the 145 00:13:37,100 --> 00:13:40,730 incinerator at Greenway, recognized 22.8 million 146 00:13:40,730 --> 00:13:42,840 capitalized. There was work done on Colonel 147 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,700 Tablet Road, the East London Link Phase 3A West, 148 00:13:45,700 --> 00:13:49,100 Dundas Street, 11.4 million, and work 149 00:13:49,100 --> 00:13:52,450 on Oxford Street West, Gideon Drive, intersection 150 00:13:52,450 --> 00:13:54,990 improvement, 7.5 million. What we always tend 151 00:13:54,990 --> 00:13:57,760 to highlight are the assets that the city assumes 152 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:00,200 based on subdivision agreements coming 153 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,880 through from developers. So we'll be at line 61.9 154 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,330 million dollars of work that were capitalized 155 00:14:06,330 --> 00:14:09,230 onto the city's books, comprising of increased 156 00:14:09,230 --> 00:14:10,080 roadways, 157 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:13,510 sidewalks, street lights, and the underground 158 00:14:13,510 --> 00:14:13,750 infrastructure 159 00:14:13,750 --> 00:14:17,080 such as water pipes, sanitary pipes, and storm 160 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:18,790 sewers. 161 00:14:18,790 --> 00:14:20,990 Moving off from the financial statement, 162 00:14:20,990 --> 00:14:23,470 we go to the statement of operations. 163 00:14:23,470 --> 00:14:27,620 And in 2025, our revenues increased $185 million 164 00:14:27,620 --> 00:14:30,530 over 2024. 165 00:14:30,530 --> 00:14:32,350 That's predominantly attributed to municipal 166 00:14:32,350 --> 00:14:33,220 taxation. 167 00:14:33,220 --> 00:14:36,380 we had an 8.5% tax levy increase, 168 00:14:36,380 --> 00:14:38,630 tax 7.3% from rates, 169 00:14:38,630 --> 00:14:40,410 but we also took an additional funding 170 00:14:40,410 --> 00:14:41,980 from other levels of government, 171 00:14:41,980 --> 00:14:46,570 as well as development charges revenue earned. 172 00:14:46,570 --> 00:14:49,420 We also had an increase in our expenditures 173 00:14:49,420 --> 00:14:53,520 related to accounting for non-vested sick leave, 174 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:55,180 impacting general government, 175 00:14:55,180 --> 00:14:58,620 increases evident in protection to persons and 176 00:14:58,620 --> 00:14:59,210 property, 177 00:14:59,210 --> 00:15:02,150 as well as environmental services, 178 00:15:02,150 --> 00:15:04,210 such as the number of winter events 179 00:15:04,210 --> 00:15:07,140 that the city underwent in 2025. 180 00:15:07,140 --> 00:15:10,600 That left us with an accounting surplus of 45.7 181 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:11,320 million 182 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:15,040 over the prior year increase. 183 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:19,140 We also look at taking an opportunity 184 00:15:19,140 --> 00:15:24,570 to revise how we reconcile back to the multi-year 185 00:15:24,570 --> 00:15:24,950 budget, 186 00:15:24,950 --> 00:15:27,050 particularly the 2025 year. 187 00:15:27,050 --> 00:15:29,700 And we recognize that there are main differences 188 00:15:29,700 --> 00:15:34,200 related to amortization and how we account for 189 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:34,710 reserve funds. 190 00:15:36,410 --> 00:15:39,630 The reason why we had a surplus in 2025 191 00:15:39,630 --> 00:15:43,270 was an increase in investment income recognized, 192 00:15:43,270 --> 00:15:45,140 transfer payments from other levels of government 193 00:15:45,140 --> 00:15:45,380 , 194 00:15:45,380 --> 00:15:46,810 development charge revenue realized 195 00:15:46,810 --> 00:15:48,660 exceeding prior experience, 196 00:15:48,660 --> 00:15:50,700 and then that was offset with some, 197 00:15:50,700 --> 00:15:52,760 or also contributed to it, 198 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:56,090 was lower anticipated expenses in general 199 00:15:56,090 --> 00:15:56,750 government, 200 00:15:56,750 --> 00:15:57,960 protection to persons and property, 201 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,660 and social and family services lower expenditures 202 00:16:00,660 --> 00:16:01,150 . 203 00:16:01,150 --> 00:16:05,610 We go on to identify within our financial 204 00:16:05,610 --> 00:16:06,640 highlights, 205 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:08,790 Some of the indicators that we look at, 206 00:16:08,790 --> 00:16:10,850 and I've just highlighted one about seven 207 00:16:10,850 --> 00:16:11,520 indicators 208 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:13,750 where we look at our amount of tax rears 209 00:16:13,750 --> 00:16:15,820 that we have outstanding. 210 00:16:15,820 --> 00:16:17,840 The total amount of long-term debt, 211 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:19,460 our debt principal payments, 212 00:16:19,460 --> 00:16:21,280 our tangible capital asset additions, 213 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,190 our annual surplus and assessment growth, 214 00:16:24,190 --> 00:16:27,920 we compare that to our five-year average. 215 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:29,910 Following that, as mentioned earlier, 216 00:16:29,910 --> 00:16:33,300 we do a comparison to the 2025 multi-year budget 217 00:16:33,300 --> 00:16:36,670 with the public sector accounting standards 218 00:16:36,670 --> 00:16:36,800 budget 219 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:38,790 that you see in the financial statements, 220 00:16:38,790 --> 00:16:40,620 highlighting amortization, debt principal 221 00:16:40,620 --> 00:16:41,530 payments, 222 00:16:41,530 --> 00:16:43,680 capital reserve funds and what have you. 223 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,670 And then we do a reconciliation that goes back 224 00:16:46,670 --> 00:16:50,090 to the year-end monitoring report 225 00:16:50,090 --> 00:16:52,770 that council would have received back on April 20 226 00:16:52,770 --> 00:16:53,670 th, 2026, 227 00:16:53,670 --> 00:16:56,650 where there was reported $24.5 million surplus, 228 00:16:56,650 --> 00:16:59,270 which was then allocated based on council's 229 00:16:59,270 --> 00:17:01,020 surplus deficit policy. 230 00:17:01,020 --> 00:17:04,800 We then look to add back items to make it an 231 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:05,200 alignment 232 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,060 with the public sector accounting standards 233 00:17:07,060 --> 00:17:10,910 to get to the $463.7 million surplus that's 234 00:17:10,910 --> 00:17:11,810 outlined 235 00:17:11,810 --> 00:17:14,780 in the city's consolidated financial statements. 236 00:17:14,780 --> 00:17:18,240 And finally, where do we go from here? 237 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:20,310 From city's finances end, we truly want to 238 00:17:20,310 --> 00:17:21,440 acknowledge 239 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,020 that the way that we were able to complete 240 00:17:24,020 --> 00:17:25,770 your 2025 financial statements 241 00:17:25,770 --> 00:17:27,910 reflects a strong collaboration 242 00:17:27,910 --> 00:17:29,380 between the number of boards and commissions 243 00:17:29,380 --> 00:17:30,650 that we have at the city, 244 00:17:30,650 --> 00:17:34,460 as well as a lot of our internal parties, 245 00:17:34,460 --> 00:17:37,510 such as legal, human resources, ITS, 246 00:17:37,510 --> 00:17:40,090 as well as all the service areas who contribute 247 00:17:40,090 --> 00:17:43,690 to compiling this information in accordance 248 00:17:43,690 --> 00:17:45,590 with public sector accounting standards. 249 00:17:45,590 --> 00:17:47,510 I also want to take to the opportunity to 250 00:17:47,510 --> 00:17:48,010 recognize 251 00:17:48,010 --> 00:17:50,220 that there are opportunities for continuous 252 00:17:50,220 --> 00:17:51,140 improvement. 253 00:17:51,140 --> 00:17:54,500 KPMG will highlight two audit committee, 254 00:17:54,500 --> 00:17:56,250 some of their audit findings, 255 00:17:56,250 --> 00:17:59,900 and financial services recognizes that there's 256 00:17:59,900 --> 00:18:00,340 additional 257 00:18:00,340 --> 00:18:04,070 training and awareness required within financial 258 00:18:04,070 --> 00:18:04,790 services 259 00:18:04,790 --> 00:18:07,810 to ensure that public sector accounting standards 260 00:18:07,810 --> 00:18:12,480 are understood, and the timing of information 261 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:16,220 corresponds with the correct fiscal year. 262 00:18:16,220 --> 00:18:18,370 So with that, I'd like to turn it over to KPMG 263 00:18:18,370 --> 00:18:20,200 to present their audit findings report. 264 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,940 And from that, we hope that this will go to 265 00:18:22,940 --> 00:18:23,300 council 266 00:18:23,300 --> 00:18:26,170 to approve the consolidated financial statements 267 00:18:26,170 --> 00:18:28,610 so that we can make the final version available 268 00:18:28,610 --> 00:18:31,190 to the public in July, end of July, 269 00:18:31,190 --> 00:18:32,930 once we receive sign off. 270 00:18:32,930 --> 00:18:34,210 Thank you. 271 00:18:34,210 --> 00:18:36,030 - Thank you to committee members 272 00:18:36,030 --> 00:18:37,970 and visiting councilor Troso. 273 00:18:37,970 --> 00:18:39,980 If you have questions, just hold them on top of 274 00:18:39,980 --> 00:18:42,770 the presentation and if you note page number or 275 00:18:42,770 --> 00:18:44,960 whatnot, just take note of that as some of the 276 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,940 information and back documents are extensive. 277 00:18:47,940 --> 00:18:51,170 I'll also note that on some items that were 278 00:18:51,170 --> 00:18:54,050 coming up. There are delegation requests from Mr. 279 00:18:54,050 --> 00:18:56,460 Wallace who is enjoying our company for the full 280 00:18:56,460 --> 00:18:56,910 day. 281 00:18:56,910 --> 00:18:58,880 So I do take note of that and thank you for 282 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,110 staying with us. Ms. Danbach, the floor is yours 283 00:19:01,110 --> 00:19:01,880 when you're ready. 284 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:05,210 There's a presentation going on screen, so just 285 00:19:05,210 --> 00:19:09,730 toggle at will so you can see it. 286 00:19:09,730 --> 00:19:11,230 Thank you very much for having us here. 287 00:19:11,230 --> 00:19:13,050 And through to you, Madam Chair, 288 00:19:13,050 --> 00:19:14,900 we'd like to walk you through the highlights 289 00:19:14,900 --> 00:19:17,440 of our audit findings report. 290 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:19,400 We do appreciate the extra time that you've given 291 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:19,640 us 292 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:21,750 and we'll try to be succinct and focusing 293 00:19:21,750 --> 00:19:23,980 on the things we think are most important for you 294 00:19:23,980 --> 00:19:25,060 to hear. 295 00:19:25,060 --> 00:19:26,180 Just before we get started, 296 00:19:26,180 --> 00:19:28,170 I wanna make sure everyone is following along 297 00:19:28,170 --> 00:19:29,840 with the right version of our report. 298 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:34,630 So you will see in the agenda at 4.1.B 299 00:19:34,630 --> 00:19:37,900 was our initial findings report as of May 29th 300 00:19:37,900 --> 00:19:39,530 that had some procedures. 301 00:19:39,530 --> 00:19:41,570 We were still working on at that time and in 302 00:19:41,570 --> 00:19:44,240 performing our procedures over the consolidation 303 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,560 of the boards and commissions into the city's 304 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:47,630 financial statements. 305 00:19:47,630 --> 00:19:50,510 We did identify further audit differences that we 306 00:19:50,510 --> 00:19:53,110 were required to communicate with you. So that's 307 00:19:53,110 --> 00:19:56,060 where you will see we have provided an amended 308 00:19:56,060 --> 00:19:59,620 report as of June 10 thought has been included as 309 00:19:59,620 --> 00:20:01,590 item 4.1 point B a. 310 00:20:01,990 --> 00:20:04,180 This is the most up-to-date version, and this is 311 00:20:04,180 --> 00:20:05,580 what we'll be walking through with you 312 00:20:05,580 --> 00:20:08,510 today. And I believe it starts on page 615 of 313 00:20:08,510 --> 00:20:11,320 your amended package. So I just wanted to make 314 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:13,480 that clear and also to say that as we walk 315 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:15,710 through the page numbers that we will be 316 00:20:15,710 --> 00:20:16,430 referring to 317 00:20:16,430 --> 00:20:18,650 are the ones in our report at the bottom right 318 00:20:18,650 --> 00:20:22,460 hand side, just so everyone's clear. So with that 319 00:20:22,460 --> 00:20:22,560 , 320 00:20:22,470 --> 00:20:26,150 just want to briefly remind everyone this report 321 00:20:26,150 --> 00:20:28,460 contains everything that we are required to 322 00:20:28,460 --> 00:20:32,180 to communicate with you in your governance roles 323 00:20:32,180 --> 00:20:34,940 over the external audit process. 324 00:20:34,940 --> 00:20:36,590 So the required communications 325 00:20:36,590 --> 00:20:38,730 under Canadian auditing standards, 326 00:20:38,730 --> 00:20:40,490 as well as other items that we feel 327 00:20:40,490 --> 00:20:43,480 you should be aware of in that role. 328 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:45,960 We've included some highlights here about Melissa 329 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:47,200 and Emily are gonna go through those 330 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:48,280 in a little bit more detail. 331 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,670 So I won't touch on them on this slide 332 00:20:51,670 --> 00:20:52,470 specifically. 333 00:20:52,470 --> 00:20:55,230 But I did also wanna mention the status of the 334 00:20:55,230 --> 00:20:55,620 audit. 335 00:20:55,620 --> 00:20:57,660 So our audit is substantially complete 336 00:20:57,660 --> 00:21:00,980 with a few procedures remaining. 337 00:21:00,980 --> 00:21:02,690 As of the date of this report, 338 00:21:02,690 --> 00:21:04,930 we actually have a few more we can cross off 339 00:21:04,930 --> 00:21:05,610 today, 340 00:21:05,610 --> 00:21:08,200 including grant revenue, deferred revenue, 341 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,600 and the procedures over the consolidation work 342 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:12,000 book. 343 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:13,280 And then other than that, 344 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:15,430 we have a few remaining procedures 345 00:21:15,430 --> 00:21:18,830 over investments to TCA, legal and journal entry 346 00:21:18,830 --> 00:21:19,190 testing, 347 00:21:19,190 --> 00:21:23,250 as well as final reviews and sign-offs of our 348 00:21:23,250 --> 00:21:23,740 file, 349 00:21:23,740 --> 00:21:26,820 having our conversations with the committee here 350 00:21:26,820 --> 00:21:27,060 today 351 00:21:27,060 --> 00:21:30,990 and obtaining evidence of council's approval 352 00:21:30,990 --> 00:21:32,420 of the financial statements. 353 00:21:32,420 --> 00:21:34,330 And at that point, we will issue 354 00:21:34,330 --> 00:21:37,150 our standard management representation letter 355 00:21:37,150 --> 00:21:40,370 and we'll be able to finalize our work 356 00:21:40,370 --> 00:21:42,160 and anticipate issuing a clean 357 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:48,740 or an unmodified auditor's report. 358 00:21:48,740 --> 00:21:52,140 - Okay, so the next few pages focus on areas 359 00:21:52,140 --> 00:21:54,580 that we wanted to highlight from the audit. 360 00:21:54,580 --> 00:21:57,370 So beginning on page six, 361 00:21:57,370 --> 00:21:59,170 this highlights prepaid expenses. 362 00:21:59,170 --> 00:22:03,280 So for the end of the year, December 31st, 2025, 363 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,600 total prepaid expenses are around 45 million. 364 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,390 We did not identify any risks of material 365 00:22:09,390 --> 00:22:11,750 misstatement relating to prepaid expenses. 366 00:22:11,750 --> 00:22:14,210 However, given that it is material quantitatively 367 00:22:14,210 --> 00:22:14,380 , 368 00:22:14,380 --> 00:22:18,260 we do perform procedures over this caption. 369 00:22:18,260 --> 00:22:21,050 And during our testing over prepaids, 370 00:22:21,050 --> 00:22:24,250 it was noted that a payment for one of the items 371 00:22:24,250 --> 00:22:27,630 picked up for testing did not occur until January 372 00:22:27,630 --> 00:22:28,480 2026 and 373 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:33,030 did not relate to 2025. And as a result, the 374 00:22:33,030 --> 00:22:34,550 prepaid expenses 375 00:22:34,550 --> 00:22:37,030 and accounts payable and accrued liabilities were 376 00:22:37,030 --> 00:22:38,270 overstated by 377 00:22:38,270 --> 00:22:41,980 approximately 2 million. This was left uncorrect 378 00:22:41,980 --> 00:22:42,580 ed in the 379 00:22:42,580 --> 00:22:45,960 consolidated financial statements and further 380 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:46,290 information on 381 00:22:46,290 --> 00:22:49,770 this can be seen further down in the uncorrected 382 00:22:49,770 --> 00:22:50,290 misstatement 383 00:22:50,290 --> 00:22:57,210 and on page 13. Moving on to page 7 for loans and 384 00:22:57,210 --> 00:22:58,650 long-term receivable at the 385 00:22:58,650 --> 00:23:02,170 end of 2025 the total amount of loans and long- 386 00:23:02,170 --> 00:23:03,680 term receivables were around 387 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,470 132 million for the consolidated entity and this 388 00:23:07,470 --> 00:23:09,880 is primarily made up of three 389 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,260 items so loans receivable deferred development 390 00:23:13,260 --> 00:23:14,170 charges and alternate 391 00:23:14,170 --> 00:23:17,030 payment arrangements and mortgages receivables. 392 00:23:17,030 --> 00:23:18,920 We did identify risks of 393 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:20,520 the material misstatement for these, 394 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:22,320 which are noted on this slide, 395 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,360 but based on the procedures performed, 396 00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:27,230 we don't have any matters to report here. 397 00:23:27,230 --> 00:23:30,620 However, we did want to bring this to your 398 00:23:30,620 --> 00:23:30,830 attention 399 00:23:30,830 --> 00:23:34,230 relating to the Bill 17 amendments that took 400 00:23:34,230 --> 00:23:34,630 place, 401 00:23:34,630 --> 00:23:37,020 impacting development charges. 402 00:23:37,020 --> 00:23:39,540 There were changes enacted for long-term care 403 00:23:39,540 --> 00:23:39,980 homes 404 00:23:39,980 --> 00:23:42,500 effective in June of 2025, 405 00:23:42,500 --> 00:23:45,290 and for other development charges effective in 406 00:23:45,290 --> 00:23:47,490 November of 2025. 407 00:23:47,770 --> 00:23:50,250 The long-term care homes became exempt 408 00:23:50,250 --> 00:23:51,800 from development charges, 409 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,200 which resulted in amounts outstanding at June 410 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:56,000 2025 411 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,160 of approximately 5.5 million being removed 412 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,510 from the loans and long-term receivable, 413 00:24:01,510 --> 00:24:03,590 balance and deferred revenue. 414 00:24:03,590 --> 00:24:06,990 However, the more significant change was in 415 00:24:06,990 --> 00:24:08,230 November, 416 00:24:08,230 --> 00:24:10,820 in which interest can no longer be charged 417 00:24:10,820 --> 00:24:13,140 on these long-term receivables, 418 00:24:13,140 --> 00:24:15,600 which are payable over the course of six years. 419 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,290 In November 2025, starting at that point, 420 00:24:20,290 --> 00:24:22,470 the impact of the measurement has been considered 421 00:24:22,470 --> 00:24:25,210 to be appropriate, and we don't have any other 422 00:24:25,210 --> 00:24:25,370 matters 423 00:24:25,370 --> 00:24:29,430 to report with respect to this area. 424 00:24:29,430 --> 00:24:31,770 Page nine, there's not really too much 425 00:24:31,770 --> 00:24:34,230 on our other financial reporting matters. 426 00:24:34,230 --> 00:24:35,740 The presentation and disclosure 427 00:24:35,740 --> 00:24:38,200 of the consultant financial statements 428 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,150 have been determined in accordance 429 00:24:40,150 --> 00:24:41,860 with the required standards, 430 00:24:41,860 --> 00:24:48,160 and there's no other items to report here. 431 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:49,990 - We provide additional detail 432 00:24:49,990 --> 00:24:53,460 on the uncorrected misstatements on page 11, 433 00:24:53,460 --> 00:24:56,360 but on page 10 this summarizes the total impact 434 00:24:56,360 --> 00:24:57,320 of these, 435 00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,140 just noting that these are not considered to be 436 00:24:59,140 --> 00:24:59,580 material 437 00:24:59,580 --> 00:25:01,800 to the financial statements and have no effect 438 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,260 on our auditor's report. 439 00:25:04,260 --> 00:25:06,940 Moving down to page 11, 440 00:25:06,940 --> 00:25:10,830 this first item was discussed in detail by Emily. 441 00:25:10,830 --> 00:25:14,130 So the next two items relate to consolidation 442 00:25:14,130 --> 00:25:14,620 adjustments. 443 00:25:14,620 --> 00:25:16,890 The first relates to audit adjustments 444 00:25:16,890 --> 00:25:20,240 made to the financial information of the 445 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:20,370 component. 446 00:25:20,370 --> 00:25:22,540 after preliminary information had been provided 447 00:25:22,540 --> 00:25:23,780 to the city. 448 00:25:23,780 --> 00:25:25,170 And then the other adjustment relates 449 00:25:25,170 --> 00:25:27,310 to an error identified by management 450 00:25:27,310 --> 00:25:28,820 relating to the prior period, 451 00:25:28,820 --> 00:25:31,050 which was corrected through 2025. 452 00:25:31,050 --> 00:25:32,680 So the statement of financial position 453 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,540 and accumulated surplus are correct at your end. 454 00:25:35,540 --> 00:25:37,210 This is just the income impact 455 00:25:37,210 --> 00:25:41,990 from the out of period adjustment. 456 00:25:41,990 --> 00:25:44,210 On page 12, this provides information 457 00:25:44,210 --> 00:25:46,420 on what is considered a controlled efficiency 458 00:25:46,420 --> 00:25:52,160 or would elevate to a significant deficiency. 459 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:56,510 On page 13, we noted some control deficiencies. 460 00:25:56,510 --> 00:25:58,420 In terms of the first item, 461 00:25:58,420 --> 00:26:00,100 there was a lack of clarity surrounding 462 00:26:00,100 --> 00:26:02,130 revenue treatment for government transfers, 463 00:26:02,130 --> 00:26:04,190 which led to an overstatement of revenue 464 00:26:04,190 --> 00:26:05,850 and an understatement of deferred revenue 465 00:26:05,850 --> 00:26:07,180 in the current period. 466 00:26:07,180 --> 00:26:09,290 However, we do note that this error was less 467 00:26:09,290 --> 00:26:11,870 than our audit misstatement posting threshold, 468 00:26:11,870 --> 00:26:13,900 but could be to further errors 469 00:26:13,900 --> 00:26:16,870 have left unaddressed in future years. 470 00:26:16,870 --> 00:26:18,450 For the second item, 471 00:26:18,450 --> 00:26:21,380 newer staff in the payroll department lacking 472 00:26:21,380 --> 00:26:21,700 training 473 00:26:21,700 --> 00:26:24,110 in year-end cut-off procedures. 474 00:26:24,110 --> 00:26:26,020 This led to an overstatement of the prepaid 475 00:26:26,020 --> 00:26:26,490 expenses 476 00:26:26,490 --> 00:26:28,560 and accounts payable and accrued liabilities, 477 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:30,470 the statement that Emily had noted, 478 00:26:30,470 --> 00:26:31,700 and again, if left unaddressed, 479 00:26:31,700 --> 00:26:33,650 could lead to further errors. 480 00:26:33,650 --> 00:26:35,120 Management has developed plans 481 00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:36,720 to address these deficiencies, 482 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:41,730 as has been noted on this page. 483 00:26:41,730 --> 00:26:43,940 The next few pages discuss our commitment to 484 00:26:43,940 --> 00:26:44,560 quality 485 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:46,970 and how we deliver it. 486 00:26:46,970 --> 00:26:50,540 So I'm going to skip to page 17. 487 00:26:50,540 --> 00:26:52,750 During our presentation of the audit planning 488 00:26:52,750 --> 00:26:53,230 report, 489 00:26:53,230 --> 00:26:55,880 We noted certain indicators of audit quality 490 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:57,470 that we would report back on. 491 00:26:57,470 --> 00:27:00,140 So these have been included on this page 492 00:27:00,140 --> 00:27:01,740 and noting nothing to report 493 00:27:01,740 --> 00:27:07,340 or that has come up as a result of these items. 494 00:27:07,340 --> 00:27:09,730 On page 18, this is just to confirm 495 00:27:09,730 --> 00:27:12,440 that we are independent of the city, 496 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,590 which then brings us to our appendices. 497 00:27:15,590 --> 00:27:18,510 These include our required communications, 498 00:27:18,510 --> 00:27:20,470 the draft auditor's report, 499 00:27:20,470 --> 00:27:21,980 an engagement letter amendment 500 00:27:21,980 --> 00:27:24,450 and the management representation letter, 501 00:27:24,450 --> 00:27:26,640 just noting that the engagement letter amendment 502 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:28,830 was to address additional communication 503 00:27:28,830 --> 00:27:29,630 requirements 504 00:27:29,630 --> 00:27:32,380 due to a new auditing standard that came up this 505 00:27:32,380 --> 00:27:32,700 year. 506 00:27:32,700 --> 00:27:35,210 And then the management representation letter 507 00:27:35,210 --> 00:27:37,960 includes the uncorrected misstatements discussed 508 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:38,360 earlier 509 00:27:38,360 --> 00:27:40,070 in our report. 510 00:27:40,070 --> 00:27:46,850 And that concludes our presentation. 511 00:27:46,850 --> 00:27:47,730 - Thank you, Ms. Demok. 512 00:27:47,730 --> 00:27:49,770 Anything to add on before we proceed? 513 00:27:49,770 --> 00:27:51,650 - No. - Okay. 514 00:27:51,650 --> 00:27:54,530 - I'll note that we're also joined online by Coun 515 00:27:54,530 --> 00:27:56,050 cillor Frank. 516 00:27:57,490 --> 00:28:01,860 items moved and on the floor looking to see if 517 00:28:01,860 --> 00:28:05,290 there's a speaker's list of questions. 518 00:28:05,290 --> 00:28:09,360 Member Chima, if at any point you have a question 519 00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:11,370 , just raise your hand. I'm watching my screen 520 00:28:11,370 --> 00:28:13,860 and I will prioritize you as you're on your tight 521 00:28:13,860 --> 00:28:16,430 time frame. So, I will start my speaker's 522 00:28:16,430 --> 00:28:19,630 list with Member Chima. Thank you, Member Chima. 523 00:28:19,630 --> 00:28:23,310 So, just a quick question on the deficiency. So, 524 00:28:23,310 --> 00:28:27,370 great financial progress overall. And just 525 00:28:27,370 --> 00:28:31,160 clearly on this, is it? I turn over vacancy issue 526 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:31,260 . 527 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:35,140 with both of those controlled efficiencies 528 00:28:35,140 --> 00:28:37,700 related to training and origin of your staff. 529 00:28:37,700 --> 00:28:42,070 I will start with the City of London staff and 530 00:28:42,070 --> 00:28:44,070 then anyone else. 531 00:28:44,070 --> 00:28:47,570 Through the chair to committee, with respect to 532 00:28:47,570 --> 00:28:51,910 the finding related to the cut off issue with 533 00:28:51,910 --> 00:28:54,920 respect to payroll, it has to do with newer staff 534 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:55,170 . 535 00:28:55,170 --> 00:28:59,800 The issue came about on December 24th in their 536 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,160 ace to get a payment in. 537 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,510 they brought it down and when it was realized 538 00:29:05,510 --> 00:29:08,540 that was brought down it looked to be a prepaid 539 00:29:08,540 --> 00:29:10,710 expense so we wanted to account for it correctly 540 00:29:10,710 --> 00:29:12,650 however it was for a payment that would have been 541 00:29:12,650 --> 00:29:16,090 due in January of 2026 so it should have been 542 00:29:16,090 --> 00:29:19,680 recognized in 2026 not as a prepaid expense in 543 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:21,840 2025 544 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,250 so we are looking to hone our training material 545 00:29:25,250 --> 00:29:28,760 particularly with payroll as they make a number 546 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:33,360 of remittances to other levels of government like 547 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,700 CRA and whatnot. So it is 548 00:29:35,700 --> 00:29:37,660 training and we are looking and are addressing it 549 00:29:37,660 --> 00:29:39,800 . Thank you. Mr. Chiba. 550 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:45,690 We should that this of all and this this mark on 551 00:29:45,690 --> 00:29:48,980 I just curious in terms of the 552 00:29:48,980 --> 00:29:53,380 budgeting and resource allegation to the finance 553 00:29:53,380 --> 00:29:59,270 department because yeah there's 554 00:29:59,270 --> 00:30:01,770 There's not a question just to comment, it's not 555 00:30:01,770 --> 00:30:05,320 more, it's not the individual specifics. 556 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,720 It's more of if we have the right resources, the 557 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,950 right skill set in some of those union 558 00:30:11,950 --> 00:30:15,380 roles and if there's any key person risks that 559 00:30:15,380 --> 00:30:21,760 are coming out of these kind of things. 560 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:27,770 Mr. Collins or Ms. Brabant to respond. 561 00:30:27,770 --> 00:30:30,530 Through the chair to committee, this one 562 00:30:30,530 --> 00:30:33,350 deficiency related to payroll is the first time 563 00:30:33,350 --> 00:30:33,590 that 564 00:30:33,590 --> 00:30:36,500 we've experienced it or have been flagged. 565 00:30:36,500 --> 00:30:38,690 And it was mainly attributed to a turnover 566 00:30:38,690 --> 00:30:40,960 with some of the more experienced staff 567 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,460 taking on other new opportunities within the city 568 00:30:44,460 --> 00:30:49,120 and bringing on new staff within our payroll area 569 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:49,220 , 570 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:53,700 which may not have been as fluent on accounting 571 00:30:53,700 --> 00:30:54,470 practices 572 00:30:54,470 --> 00:30:57,210 versus their subject matter expertise being 573 00:30:57,210 --> 00:30:57,450 payroll, 574 00:30:57,450 --> 00:30:59,590 which is different in processing pay 575 00:30:59,590 --> 00:31:01,860 from processing and accounting for things 576 00:31:01,860 --> 00:31:03,100 in accordance with public sector accounting 577 00:31:03,100 --> 00:31:03,530 standards. 578 00:31:03,530 --> 00:31:06,910 So we've taken note and we will be enhancing our 579 00:31:06,910 --> 00:31:07,720 training. 580 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:09,030 Thank you. 581 00:31:09,030 --> 00:31:11,400 - Thank you, Mr. Chima. 582 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,760 - Appreciate that, thank you. 583 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,850 - Councillor Stevenson. 584 00:31:16,850 --> 00:31:17,670 - Thank you for that. 585 00:31:17,670 --> 00:31:19,990 And that answered part of my question. 586 00:31:19,990 --> 00:31:21,980 In here it sounded like the entry went 587 00:31:21,980 --> 00:31:23,490 from prepaid to liability, 588 00:31:23,490 --> 00:31:25,950 which seems, you know, for those of us who know 589 00:31:25,950 --> 00:31:28,100 that's not good, but now it was clarified there 590 00:31:28,100 --> 00:31:30,450 that that was a subsequent reallocation. 591 00:31:30,450 --> 00:31:31,920 So that makes a lot more sense. 592 00:31:33,410 --> 00:31:38,350 My question is a general one around reviewing 593 00:31:38,350 --> 00:31:38,450 entries 594 00:31:38,350 --> 00:31:41,070 and stuff like that, so not specifically 595 00:31:41,070 --> 00:31:44,870 even around new people, but what is the general 596 00:31:44,870 --> 00:31:45,500 practice 597 00:31:45,500 --> 00:31:50,690 around review and authorizing of entries? 598 00:31:50,690 --> 00:31:55,560 - Thank you, just to stop. 599 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:56,700 - Through the chair to committee, 600 00:31:56,700 --> 00:31:59,020 when it comes to journal entries, 601 00:31:59,020 --> 00:32:01,790 there are about three checkpoints. 602 00:32:01,790 --> 00:32:04,370 There is the producer of the journal entry 603 00:32:04,370 --> 00:32:06,080 based on supported documentation 604 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,100 that is required to accompany the journal entries 605 00:32:08,100 --> 00:32:10,480 when it comes down to forefloor and finance. 606 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,920 It is then signed off by someone at a higher 607 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:14,670 level, 608 00:32:14,670 --> 00:32:17,010 either a manager or supervisor who has that 609 00:32:17,010 --> 00:32:18,330 signing authority. 610 00:32:18,330 --> 00:32:21,070 From there, that journal entry is then taken down 611 00:32:21,070 --> 00:32:22,220 to forefloor 612 00:32:22,220 --> 00:32:23,770 where it's reviewed for posting 613 00:32:23,770 --> 00:32:26,190 to ensure that there's adequate supporting 614 00:32:26,190 --> 00:32:27,110 documentation 615 00:32:27,110 --> 00:32:29,290 with that that's no different if it's during a 616 00:32:29,290 --> 00:32:30,460 journal entry 617 00:32:30,460 --> 00:32:33,950 from providing a payment to be paid through AP, 618 00:32:33,950 --> 00:32:36,730 where there is about a couple of sets of eyes 619 00:32:36,730 --> 00:32:37,250 looking at it 620 00:32:37,250 --> 00:32:39,390 before we sign off on a journal entry, 621 00:32:39,390 --> 00:32:41,660 and those types of processes are reviewed 622 00:32:41,660 --> 00:32:44,720 through the walkthrough by the external auditor 623 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:46,950 on an annual basis to validate that we have the 624 00:32:46,950 --> 00:32:47,590 controls 625 00:32:47,590 --> 00:32:49,850 and the segregation of duty in place 626 00:32:49,850 --> 00:32:52,030 to make any changes or make any financial 627 00:32:52,030 --> 00:32:53,000 transactions. 628 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,440 - Councilor? 629 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,470 - Okay, thank you for that. 630 00:32:57,470 --> 00:32:59,910 Under prepaid expenses, it says that prepaid 631 00:32:59,910 --> 00:33:00,440 expenses 632 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,620 is primarily comprised of prepaid program 633 00:33:03,620 --> 00:33:05,010 and employee benefit costs. 634 00:33:05,010 --> 00:33:08,360 I'm just wondering what prepaid program is. 635 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:20,310 - Staff, thank you, through the chair. 636 00:33:20,310 --> 00:33:23,100 That would be primarily social assistance. 637 00:33:23,100 --> 00:33:24,610 Chex are issued at the end of the month 638 00:33:24,610 --> 00:33:26,440 and are come out of the bank account, 639 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,850 but they're not actually due or not for the 640 00:33:28,850 --> 00:33:29,660 following month. 641 00:33:29,660 --> 00:33:31,870 So that would be a large component of what 642 00:33:31,870 --> 00:33:32,690 programs 643 00:33:32,690 --> 00:33:34,920 would be that are issued in advance. 644 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,830 There are primarily benefits to participants. 645 00:33:37,830 --> 00:33:38,700 - Counselor? 646 00:33:38,700 --> 00:33:40,090 - Okay, thank you for that. 647 00:33:40,090 --> 00:33:44,980 With the uncorrected misstatements, 648 00:33:44,980 --> 00:33:51,080 I was just wondering on the second one, 649 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,700 it talks about overstatement of prepaid expenses 650 00:33:53,700 --> 00:33:56,030 and social housing expense. 651 00:33:56,030 --> 00:33:57,660 So I just wanted to confirm that even though 652 00:33:57,660 --> 00:34:00,440 we're uncorrected in the misstatements, 653 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:01,830 and this will probably be for staff, 654 00:34:01,830 --> 00:34:07,110 but is it impacting any reporting of funding 655 00:34:07,110 --> 00:34:10,640 provincially or federally to staff? 656 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:16,550 - Through the chair to committee, 657 00:34:16,550 --> 00:34:19,500 there's a lot of considerations when it comes 658 00:34:19,500 --> 00:34:21,500 to looking at the statement. 659 00:34:21,500 --> 00:34:26,780 One is, A, this is a consolidated report for some 660 00:34:26,780 --> 00:34:27,830 consolidated. 661 00:34:27,830 --> 00:34:29,210 The other aim that needs to be taken into 662 00:34:29,210 --> 00:34:29,730 consideration 663 00:34:29,730 --> 00:34:31,420 is that for those provincial programs, 664 00:34:31,420 --> 00:34:34,790 they have their separate reviews that are 665 00:34:34,790 --> 00:34:35,600 undertaken periodically 666 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,270 to ensure that the funding aligns with the 667 00:34:39,270 --> 00:34:39,690 expenditures 668 00:34:39,690 --> 00:34:40,280 that are occurred. 669 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,030 So there are a number of checks and balances in 670 00:34:43,030 --> 00:34:43,170 place, 671 00:34:43,170 --> 00:34:44,770 particularly when we're dealing with other levels 672 00:34:44,770 --> 00:34:46,160 of government funding. 673 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,950 And that's why we have a lot of special audits 674 00:34:48,950 --> 00:34:53,120 that our auditors assist with to report out to 675 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:54,750 the province. 676 00:34:54,750 --> 00:34:55,690 Thank you. 677 00:34:55,690 --> 00:34:56,520 - Councilor. 678 00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:57,350 - Thank you. 679 00:34:57,350 --> 00:34:58,920 So I'm hearing that there's no concern 680 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:00,620 that there's a misstatement on one of those. 681 00:35:00,620 --> 00:35:01,930 Okay, perfect. 682 00:35:01,930 --> 00:35:06,390 And then I think I was just curious 683 00:35:06,390 --> 00:35:08,670 what the period correction was, 684 00:35:08,670 --> 00:35:10,570 the prior year error from Covent Garden 685 00:35:10,570 --> 00:35:11,150 Marketplace 686 00:35:11,150 --> 00:35:15,240 'cause it's 1.5 million. 687 00:35:15,240 --> 00:35:22,200 - Okay, to staff or KPMG? 688 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:26,150 - So this related to something that was 689 00:35:26,150 --> 00:35:26,590 identified 690 00:35:26,590 --> 00:35:27,990 by management in the current year 691 00:35:27,990 --> 00:35:29,380 when they were doing the consolidation 692 00:35:29,380 --> 00:35:30,000 adjustments 693 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,110 for one of the boards and commissions, 694 00:35:32,110 --> 00:35:34,340 where they noted that last year, 695 00:35:34,340 --> 00:35:37,010 one of the eliminating entries was not, 696 00:35:37,010 --> 00:35:39,650 was incorrect by 1.5 million. 697 00:35:39,650 --> 00:35:43,020 So this entry was made to correct for the 698 00:35:43,020 --> 00:35:43,390 adjustment 699 00:35:43,390 --> 00:35:46,260 that should have been made in the prior year. 700 00:35:46,260 --> 00:35:48,240 So it's strictly related to one of the 701 00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:49,770 eliminating entries 702 00:35:49,770 --> 00:35:54,580 for this board and commission. 703 00:35:54,580 --> 00:35:56,150 Councillor. 704 00:35:56,150 --> 00:35:56,970 - Okay, thanks. 705 00:35:56,970 --> 00:35:58,260 But that's one of those journal entries 706 00:35:58,260 --> 00:36:02,390 with the three reviews, right? 707 00:36:02,390 --> 00:36:03,450 staff. 708 00:36:03,450 --> 00:36:05,600 >> Through the Chair Committee know that that 709 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:07,170 would be part of the consolidation process 710 00:36:07,170 --> 00:36:10,810 that happens during the audit upon the city 711 00:36:10,810 --> 00:36:13,420 taking receipt of the financial statements 712 00:36:13,420 --> 00:36:14,880 coming from the boards and commissions. 713 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,860 So there's a process where we have to wait until 714 00:36:17,860 --> 00:36:20,410 the boards and commissions conduct their 715 00:36:20,410 --> 00:36:22,380 audit and they're reviewed to provide us the 716 00:36:22,380 --> 00:36:24,280 numbers so that we can understand what 717 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:28,270 the elimination entries would be. 718 00:36:28,270 --> 00:36:30,540 So it depends on the timing when we receive it 719 00:36:30,540 --> 00:36:31,980 and how we interpret it. 720 00:36:31,980 --> 00:36:36,450 And we were recognizing that our audits are 721 00:36:36,450 --> 00:36:37,830 complicated, not just for the city, but for 722 00:36:37,830 --> 00:36:38,820 the boards and commissions. 723 00:36:38,820 --> 00:36:42,100 So timing really impacts it and the ability for 724 00:36:42,100 --> 00:36:45,190 us to incorporate boards and commissions 725 00:36:45,190 --> 00:36:48,060 finances into ours and then eliminate, so we're 726 00:36:48,060 --> 00:36:50,480 not double counting, at times can become 727 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:52,920 complicated when you're looking at various cost 728 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:54,890 sharing arrangements and whatnot. 729 00:36:54,890 --> 00:36:56,950 And in this case, this is one where at the time 730 00:36:56,950 --> 00:37:01,220 of producing the 2024 financial statements, 731 00:37:01,220 --> 00:37:02,820 we missed it. 732 00:37:02,820 --> 00:37:05,590 caught it through the remainder of 2025, we made 733 00:37:05,590 --> 00:37:07,790 a correction, and through the due diligence 734 00:37:07,790 --> 00:37:09,940 of KPMT, they identified that we correct it, but 735 00:37:09,940 --> 00:37:11,800 it should have been in 2024. 736 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:13,690 Thank you. 737 00:37:13,690 --> 00:37:15,200 It sounds like the trickle down effect of 738 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:16,920 correcting things in its year-over year. 739 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:18,060 Yeah. 740 00:37:18,060 --> 00:37:22,540 I can only imagine that consolidation. 741 00:37:22,540 --> 00:37:23,530 And then just a question. 742 00:37:23,530 --> 00:37:25,540 It talks about lack of clarity surrounding 743 00:37:25,540 --> 00:37:27,910 revenue treatment for government transfers. 744 00:37:27,910 --> 00:37:32,410 Was there a change in policy or like it talks 745 00:37:32,410 --> 00:37:34,070 about PS3410? 746 00:37:34,070 --> 00:37:38,620 Was there something new or is this maybe just, 747 00:37:38,620 --> 00:37:41,120 yeah, just like further clarification there. 748 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:42,100 Stop. 749 00:37:42,100 --> 00:37:45,980 - Through the church committee, 750 00:37:45,980 --> 00:37:48,530 this scenario came in with a revenue amount 751 00:37:48,530 --> 00:37:51,450 that came in from the province to the city 752 00:37:51,450 --> 00:37:53,110 in the month of November. 753 00:37:53,110 --> 00:37:57,220 And the details behind that revenue amount 754 00:37:57,220 --> 00:38:00,830 was not as clear in order for finance 755 00:38:00,830 --> 00:38:02,810 to make a determination whether it related 756 00:38:02,810 --> 00:38:06,880 current event in 2025 or an event to have 757 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:13,570 occurred in 2026. So it was booked in 2025 758 00:38:13,570 --> 00:38:17,010 and it should have been booked as deferred to 759 00:38:17,010 --> 00:38:18,960 recognize the expense as per 760 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,460 PS3410 to recognize it when the expenditure was 761 00:38:22,460 --> 00:38:24,520 occurred in 2020 or to 762 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:30,020 be occurred in 2026. So we're of the mindset that 763 00:38:30,020 --> 00:38:31,160 given that this has 764 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:35,000 per this one time we are going to ensure that we 765 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,780 go over PS3410 and as the public sector 766 00:38:38,780 --> 00:38:42,120 accounting standards provide a decision tree to 767 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,400 ensure that as revenue comes in from other 768 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:48,320 levels of government that the producer of those 769 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,880 journal entries walks through those steps to 770 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,680 make sure do they know what this is for and if 771 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,900 there's any ambiguity then put into deferred 772 00:38:56,900 --> 00:38:58,950 revenue until we can source out what that 773 00:38:58,950 --> 00:39:01,560 ambiguity may or may not be. In this case there 774 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:01,660 was 775 00:39:01,580 --> 00:39:05,270 ambiguity they booked it to 2025 should have been 776 00:39:05,270 --> 00:39:07,290 2026 so now we're going to 777 00:39:07,290 --> 00:39:09,880 overreach and make sure that a lot of our 778 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,280 financial business administrators are 779 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,600 aware and informed of what they need to take into 780 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:16,460 consideration and it could 781 00:39:16,460 --> 00:39:19,100 just be a refresher but that's the process that 782 00:39:19,100 --> 00:39:20,300 we propose that we are 783 00:39:20,300 --> 00:39:22,540 going to take as a result of what was identified. 784 00:39:22,540 --> 00:39:26,020 Thank you. Okay thanks that's 785 00:39:26,020 --> 00:39:27,770 the continuous improvement right all the way 786 00:39:27,770 --> 00:39:30,490 through just a general question I 787 00:39:30,490 --> 00:39:32,700 I didn't see the financial statements in here 788 00:39:32,700 --> 00:39:34,360 which I thought were all had like I've got all 789 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:35,930 the letters and the misstatements 790 00:39:35,930 --> 00:39:39,350 But the consolidated financial statement was that 791 00:39:39,350 --> 00:39:43,990 part of this did I just miss it stuff 792 00:39:43,990 --> 00:39:47,110 The consolidated financial statements is was part 793 00:39:47,110 --> 00:39:48,950 of the audit committee agenda. It's about 794 00:39:48,950 --> 00:39:52,320 561 pages so electronically it is available to 795 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,430 the audit committee and to counselors as well as 796 00:39:54,430 --> 00:39:55,530 we have binders that 797 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,540 Prior to distribution we had done asked what 798 00:39:59,540 --> 00:40:01,590 counselors would take receipt of the hard copy 799 00:40:01,590 --> 00:40:03,420 binders the 561 pages 800 00:40:03,420 --> 00:40:05,810 comes in a white binder 801 00:40:05,810 --> 00:40:07,720 Previously was a black minor, so it may have been 802 00:40:07,720 --> 00:40:10,120 looking for something differently, but it 803 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:10,710 outlines all 804 00:40:10,710 --> 00:40:15,780 Required reporting via the notes of the financial 805 00:40:15,780 --> 00:40:17,600 s that help inform understanding 806 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:19,500 the statement of operations the financial 807 00:40:19,500 --> 00:40:21,280 statements as well as it includes all the 808 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:22,020 consolidated 809 00:40:22,020 --> 00:40:25,520 information from our boards and commissions such 810 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:25,620 as 811 00:40:26,580 --> 00:40:31,760 The BIAs, Middlesex London Health Unit, LMCH, all 812 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:37,080 14 entities, and the three business entities 813 00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,660 that we consolidate with along with London Hydro. 814 00:40:40,660 --> 00:40:41,650 Thank you. 815 00:40:41,650 --> 00:40:44,380 Due to past concussion issues, I was unbudget 816 00:40:44,380 --> 00:40:46,960 friendly and opted for the printed copy myself. 817 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,370 It is, in my office, you're welcome to it to per 818 00:40:49,370 --> 00:40:51,180 use it or copy, I will. 819 00:40:51,180 --> 00:40:54,520 I wish I had time for that, but I said no to the 820 00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:55,790 paper copy this time. 821 00:40:55,790 --> 00:40:57,710 What I was looking for was I thought in previous 822 00:40:57,710 --> 00:41:00,610 years we just had the few pages, right, the 823 00:41:00,610 --> 00:41:03,400 income statement balance sheet statement changes, 824 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,600 is that in here and I just missed it? 825 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:07,560 Staff. 826 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:08,530 And thank you for the chair. 827 00:41:08,530 --> 00:41:11,160 It's item 4.1 on the agenda. 828 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:16,290 It's part of the package. 829 00:41:16,290 --> 00:41:18,460 It's maybe just not in my paper package, so I'll 830 00:41:18,460 --> 00:41:20,110 look at it later. 831 00:41:20,110 --> 00:41:37,770 But thanks. 832 00:41:37,770 --> 00:41:41,360 I'll note there's a regular plus-added agenda 833 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:45,590 based on which package we're sorting through. 834 00:41:45,590 --> 00:41:49,040 on line to see if there's any questions from I 835 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:50,600 don't know that Councilor Pribble has joined 836 00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:53,360 us as well online. So looking online to see if 837 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:55,580 there's questions. I don't have anything 838 00:41:55,580 --> 00:41:58,840 further on this item in chambers. So kind of a 839 00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:06,930 last call on that. Okay. So there's no 840 00:42:06,930 --> 00:42:09,170 further questions. It's been moved and seconded. 841 00:42:09,170 --> 00:42:17,410 All in favor? By a show of hands? Thank you 842 00:42:17,410 --> 00:42:22,510 to KPMG for that. This will move us along to item 843 00:42:22,510 --> 00:42:27,560 4.2. I'll note that 4.2 to 4.5 is 844 00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:31,980 MMP, they can come and have some seat at the 845 00:42:31,980 --> 00:42:35,020 table. I'll note as well that there'll be those 846 00:42:35,020 --> 00:42:35,120 added 847 00:42:35,090 --> 00:42:39,270 delegation requests. In my understanding as we go 848 00:42:39,270 --> 00:42:41,630 through these, I'll obviously do them 849 00:42:41,630 --> 00:42:42,160 individually. 850 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:46,720 I will let MMP as well reach out and state what 851 00:42:46,720 --> 00:42:49,880 they're looking for in terms of feedback and 852 00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:50,260 scope 853 00:42:50,260 --> 00:42:53,200 as we review each of these items from them. 854 00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:56,490 Welcome and thank you for being with us in person 855 00:42:56,490 --> 00:42:56,590 . 856 00:42:56,490 --> 00:43:02,670 This is 4.2, the summary update from internal 857 00:43:02,670 --> 00:43:05,890 audit MNP. I'll do a mover and seconder to get 858 00:43:05,890 --> 00:43:08,550 it on the floor. Moved by Councillor Cuddy, 859 00:43:08,550 --> 00:43:12,620 seconded by Councillor Stevenson. I'll turn the 860 00:43:12,620 --> 00:43:15,060 floor to MNP for this one first and then I will 861 00:43:15,060 --> 00:43:18,000 go to Mr. Chima first so if he has any questions, 862 00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,170 just I know he's on the timeline. So Mr. Racco, 863 00:43:20,170 --> 00:43:21,170 the floor is yours. 864 00:43:21,170 --> 00:43:25,110 - Thank you. Through you, Madam Chair. So before 865 00:43:25,110 --> 00:43:26,370 you is the summary update from 866 00:43:27,770 --> 00:43:29,670 from internal audit, a couple of things I'd just 867 00:43:29,670 --> 00:43:33,430 like to point out to committee first. 868 00:43:33,430 --> 00:43:36,790 As part of the memo, we provide an update on the 869 00:43:36,790 --> 00:43:38,790 internal audit plan of where it's sitting 870 00:43:38,790 --> 00:43:41,240 as far as a status, something I'd just like to 871 00:43:41,240 --> 00:43:43,370 note is there was a change to the timing 872 00:43:43,370 --> 00:43:46,440 of the Privacy Act, now reporting in the October 873 00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,710 2026 timeframe and the continuous improvement 874 00:43:49,710 --> 00:43:52,250 audit, effectively those have switched, and this 875 00:43:52,250 --> 00:43:54,220 was as a request of the audit committee 876 00:43:54,220 --> 00:43:55,210 previously. 877 00:43:55,210 --> 00:43:57,250 The other item I would like to point forward 878 00:43:57,250 --> 00:43:59,040 because it is a slight departure on process 879 00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:01,260 that we've done before is that you will notice 880 00:44:01,260 --> 00:44:05,150 that there is the request or the opportunity 881 00:44:05,150 --> 00:44:06,930 we're putting forward for the committee to 882 00:44:06,930 --> 00:44:08,720 provide comment on both the scoping for the 883 00:44:08,720 --> 00:44:10,610 privacy audit as well as the continuous 884 00:44:10,610 --> 00:44:11,770 improvement audit. 885 00:44:11,770 --> 00:44:15,290 Usually we look to ask for it in the item 886 00:44:15,290 --> 00:44:18,410 proceeding or the meeting proceeding however 887 00:44:18,410 --> 00:44:21,160 given the timing of the October and then the 888 00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:23,660 December they follow quite quickly with the 889 00:44:23,660 --> 00:44:24,860 the schedule for this year. 890 00:44:24,860 --> 00:44:26,210 So we're just putting that forward to the 891 00:44:26,210 --> 00:44:26,490 committee 892 00:44:26,490 --> 00:44:28,560 that we would appreciate any feedback 893 00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:30,470 on either of those audit scope items, 894 00:44:30,470 --> 00:44:33,260 whether they be here or via other means. 895 00:44:33,260 --> 00:44:35,210 And then the last item I would just like to note 896 00:44:35,210 --> 00:44:38,090 and it actually ties into the following item, 897 00:44:38,090 --> 00:44:42,070 which is the follow-up activities that we have. 898 00:44:42,070 --> 00:44:44,820 But we did incorporate the resolution 899 00:44:44,820 --> 00:44:46,410 at the direction of municipal council 900 00:44:46,410 --> 00:44:48,840 with regards to the select follow-up items 901 00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:52,210 for specifically for the London housing 902 00:44:52,210 --> 00:44:53,530 development projects. 903 00:44:53,530 --> 00:44:55,960 and the homelessness audit. 904 00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:57,350 So I just wanted to bring those to the attention 905 00:44:57,350 --> 00:45:01,320 of the committee, thank you. 906 00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:02,150 - Thank you. 907 00:45:02,150 --> 00:45:05,040 So on page 55, you'll see the high level scope 908 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:08,090 for the privacy and continuous improvement audit. 909 00:45:08,090 --> 00:45:10,440 So if we have feedback today, we can provide it 910 00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:13,190 where you can reach out individually. 911 00:45:13,190 --> 00:45:16,250 Mr. Chima, any comments on this one to start us 912 00:45:16,250 --> 00:45:17,250 off? 913 00:45:17,250 --> 00:45:19,190 Okay, looking to members of the committee in 914 00:45:19,190 --> 00:45:19,700 chambers 915 00:45:19,700 --> 00:45:24,870 or online, I will start with Councillor Stevenson 916 00:45:24,870 --> 00:45:24,970 . 917 00:45:24,870 --> 00:45:28,070 - Thank you, just a couple of things. 918 00:45:28,070 --> 00:45:30,800 Could you talk a little bit more about the high- 919 00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:31,330 level scope 920 00:45:31,330 --> 00:45:34,780 for the privacy in terms of Amphipas specifically 921 00:45:34,780 --> 00:45:34,880 , 922 00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:39,470 how, what we'll be looked at in terms of those? 923 00:45:39,470 --> 00:45:40,820 Mr. Racco? 924 00:45:40,820 --> 00:45:43,030 - Thank you, through you Madam Chair, 925 00:45:43,030 --> 00:45:45,480 to committee and to the Councillor. 926 00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:46,540 So yeah, I appreciate that. 927 00:45:46,540 --> 00:45:50,560 So for background, so Amphipa is going through 928 00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:53,230 several legislative amendments, 929 00:45:53,230 --> 00:45:57,100 specifically as a result of Bill 194 and Bill 97. 930 00:45:57,100 --> 00:45:59,300 And there's an implementation, 931 00:45:59,300 --> 00:46:02,050 a phased implementation of that from 2025 through 932 00:46:02,050 --> 00:46:03,090 to 2027. 933 00:46:03,090 --> 00:46:07,080 So what we are specifically looking to understand 934 00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:09,120 and appreciate and provide feedback to the city 935 00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,670 as well as to the committee and to council 936 00:46:11,670 --> 00:46:14,740 is how the city is effectively responding 937 00:46:14,740 --> 00:46:16,260 to those limits to the requirements 938 00:46:16,260 --> 00:46:17,620 and those legislative changes, 939 00:46:17,620 --> 00:46:20,090 making them into process and making sure 940 00:46:20,090 --> 00:46:22,890 that we are remaining compliant 941 00:46:22,890 --> 00:46:25,400 given the changes that are taking place. 942 00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:27,500 So we're gonna have a broader program, a few of 943 00:46:27,500 --> 00:46:27,830 things, 944 00:46:27,830 --> 00:46:30,320 but with a specific focus considering those 945 00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:30,710 changes 946 00:46:30,710 --> 00:46:33,060 to Amphipa. 947 00:46:33,060 --> 00:46:35,660 - Councilor Stevenson. 948 00:46:35,660 --> 00:46:37,510 - Thank you. 949 00:46:37,510 --> 00:46:43,570 So my concern around the Amphipas is the red 950 00:46:43,570 --> 00:46:43,920 actions 951 00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:48,380 that I'm seeing. 952 00:46:48,380 --> 00:46:50,150 So will that be looked at? 953 00:46:50,150 --> 00:46:52,310 Like I understand there's like an appeal process 954 00:46:52,310 --> 00:46:52,640 on that, 955 00:46:52,640 --> 00:47:00,180 but just from whatever kind of audit this is, 956 00:47:00,180 --> 00:47:03,740 is that something that could be incorporated, Mr. 957 00:47:03,740 --> 00:47:04,980 Rocco? 958 00:47:04,980 --> 00:47:06,120 - Can I, sorry, can I just ask for a 959 00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:06,940 clarification? 960 00:47:06,940 --> 00:47:07,760 - Absolutely. 961 00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:09,090 - Can I just ask for a clarification, like 962 00:47:09,090 --> 00:47:09,680 reaction, 963 00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:13,020 I'm just curious if you can extrapolate on that, 964 00:47:13,020 --> 00:47:15,030 'cause we, through you, Madam Chair, 965 00:47:15,030 --> 00:47:16,890 that can be considered in baked-in, 966 00:47:16,890 --> 00:47:17,920 if there's further clarity 967 00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:19,580 that you can provide about the specific item. 968 00:47:19,580 --> 00:47:20,730 - Councilor. 969 00:47:20,730 --> 00:47:23,190 - Okay, perfect, and I can do that through email, 970 00:47:23,190 --> 00:47:26,770 but basically, we've been, counselors have to 971 00:47:26,770 --> 00:47:27,040 file 972 00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:30,480 an MFAPA to see the contracts for the homeless 973 00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:31,440 providers 974 00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:34,940 and various levels of the budgets from complete 975 00:47:34,940 --> 00:47:36,030 to partial 976 00:47:36,030 --> 00:47:40,730 have the budgets redacted. 977 00:47:40,730 --> 00:47:44,330 So I'll follow up on that by email. 978 00:47:44,330 --> 00:47:48,350 And the other part is I just wanna confirm 979 00:47:48,350 --> 00:47:51,840 because it says on here regarding the homeless 980 00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:51,940 value 981 00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,070 for many audit that these items will remain at 982 00:47:54,070 --> 00:47:54,780 the status 983 00:47:54,780 --> 00:47:57,230 until the tenant transition plan is communicated 984 00:47:57,230 --> 00:47:58,110 to council. 985 00:47:58,110 --> 00:48:00,850 And I just wanna be clear and maybe it's through 986 00:48:00,850 --> 00:48:01,130 you, 987 00:48:01,130 --> 00:48:05,460 Chair to staff, but there was a Council-approved 988 00:48:05,460 --> 00:48:05,820 motion 989 00:48:05,820 --> 00:48:08,270 to have it come to, I believe, governance working 990 00:48:08,270 --> 00:48:08,750 group. 991 00:48:08,750 --> 00:48:10,850 Then I had a subsequent one where it came 992 00:48:10,850 --> 00:48:14,090 to Council via email, and I just want to confirm 993 00:48:14,090 --> 00:48:16,030 with staff that that is still coming through 994 00:48:16,030 --> 00:48:19,060 the original one to a governance working group 995 00:48:19,060 --> 00:48:20,960 or whatever committee it was that that was coming 996 00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:22,620 to. 997 00:48:22,620 --> 00:48:24,600 - Thank you, Mr. Dickens. 998 00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:27,650 - Thank you, through you, Chair. 999 00:48:27,650 --> 00:48:30,690 There are sort of two reports tied to this. 1000 00:48:30,690 --> 00:48:34,590 So one is the tenant placement policy, 1001 00:48:34,590 --> 00:48:36,920 which was different than a tenant transition plan 1002 00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:37,140 . 1003 00:48:37,140 --> 00:48:39,450 So the tenant placement policy 1004 00:48:39,450 --> 00:48:42,350 was what was circulated to all of council. 1005 00:48:42,350 --> 00:48:45,010 The tenant transition plan is to report 1006 00:48:45,010 --> 00:48:47,240 that Mr. May, there's this team brought forward 1007 00:48:47,240 --> 00:48:49,990 related to 122 baseline that just recently went 1008 00:48:49,990 --> 00:48:50,340 to CAPS 1009 00:48:50,340 --> 00:48:54,390 and will be considered at council. 1010 00:48:54,390 --> 00:48:55,290 - Councilor? 1011 00:48:55,290 --> 00:48:56,120 - Okay, thanks. 1012 00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:59,350 I'll look back at that and get clarity. 1013 00:48:59,350 --> 00:49:04,880 That's all for now, thanks. 1014 00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:06,790 - Okay, looking for further questions or comments 1015 00:49:06,790 --> 00:49:07,360 . 1016 00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:12,830 - Hey, if a member, Pribble has anything, 1017 00:49:12,830 --> 00:49:14,820 you put a screen online. 1018 00:49:14,820 --> 00:49:18,730 In the meantime, I'll go to Councilor Tristan. 1019 00:49:18,730 --> 00:49:20,220 - Thank you, thank you very much. 1020 00:49:20,220 --> 00:49:21,750 This is my first audit committee, 1021 00:49:21,750 --> 00:49:23,700 and I'm not a member of the committee, 1022 00:49:23,700 --> 00:49:27,450 but I'm very interested in the field of privacy. 1023 00:49:27,450 --> 00:49:30,890 And the thing with the field of privacy is, 1024 00:49:30,890 --> 00:49:33,670 sometimes there's an effort to comply 1025 00:49:33,670 --> 00:49:37,820 with privacy obligations and not get privacy 1026 00:49:37,820 --> 00:49:38,990 complaints, 1027 00:49:40,310 --> 00:49:45,670 an overly protective view of privacy is taken, 1028 00:49:45,670 --> 00:49:49,060 which is fine in so far as privacy goes. 1029 00:49:49,060 --> 00:49:54,280 But the problem with privacy policy is if you 1030 00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:59,240 over protect privacy, that comes at the 1031 00:49:59,240 --> 00:50:04,280 cost of under protecting access to information. 1032 00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:07,990 So I think it's very difficult to do a privacy 1033 00:50:07,990 --> 00:50:12,940 audit in the normal sense of the idea of an 1034 00:50:12,940 --> 00:50:16,100 audit when you want to be careful, you want to 1035 00:50:16,100 --> 00:50:19,940 err on the side of not having privacy violations. 1036 00:50:19,940 --> 00:50:25,470 My question is how will this audit ensure that in 1037 00:50:25,470 --> 00:50:29,710 trying to vigorously protect privacy 1038 00:50:29,710 --> 00:50:33,390 rights, which is important, they're not over- 1039 00:50:33,390 --> 00:50:38,090 protected such as to inhibit access to information 1040 00:50:38,090 --> 00:50:38,190 . 1041 00:50:38,170 --> 00:50:41,510 And I hope that's clear because the trade-off 1042 00:50:41,510 --> 00:50:42,650 between-- 1043 00:50:42,650 --> 00:50:46,820 Mr. Rocco? 1044 00:50:46,820 --> 00:50:49,990 Yeah, if you're going to answer the answer. 1045 00:50:49,990 --> 00:50:52,470 Through you, Madam Chair, so I appreciate the 1046 00:50:52,470 --> 00:50:53,220 question. 1047 00:50:53,220 --> 00:50:58,010 Privacy is not directly my field of practice. 1048 00:50:58,010 --> 00:50:59,860 When we do audits like this, we bring in subject 1049 00:50:59,860 --> 00:51:02,430 matter experts, but what I would say is that 1050 00:51:02,430 --> 00:51:06,310 Anytime we look at something, any type of topic, 1051 00:51:06,310 --> 00:51:08,150 we always try to understand that balance 1052 00:51:08,150 --> 00:51:10,860 because anytime we talk about risk, 1053 00:51:10,860 --> 00:51:12,930 it's not necessarily about minimizing or 1054 00:51:12,930 --> 00:51:13,810 maximizing risk, 1055 00:51:13,810 --> 00:51:15,160 but optimizing it, right? 1056 00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:17,150 There has to be a balance between the one side 1057 00:51:17,150 --> 00:51:19,420 and the other, the begin and the yang, if you 1058 00:51:19,420 --> 00:51:19,890 will. 1059 00:51:19,890 --> 00:51:21,320 So what we would want to do, 1060 00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:22,790 and again, as we're working through 1061 00:51:22,790 --> 00:51:24,700 to scope this out and execute on the audit, 1062 00:51:24,700 --> 00:51:27,280 we want to understand what are the things 1063 00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,650 that the city must do from a compliance 1064 00:51:30,650 --> 00:51:30,750 perspective, 1065 00:51:30,740 --> 00:51:33,560 And quite frankly, those can be fairly objective. 1066 00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:36,580 So we want to make sure that programs, processes, 1067 00:51:36,580 --> 00:51:39,920 protocols, all the things that we have in place 1068 00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:42,890 are meeting at a minimum those standards. 1069 00:51:42,890 --> 00:51:44,530 And then we have to appreciate where 1070 00:51:44,530 --> 00:51:46,130 there is opportunity. 1071 00:51:46,130 --> 00:51:48,440 Because again, openness and transparency, 1072 00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:48,940 particularly 1073 00:51:48,940 --> 00:51:50,650 in government, I think, has to be something 1074 00:51:50,650 --> 00:51:52,730 that we look towards. 1075 00:51:52,730 --> 00:51:55,000 So at the end of the day, there definitely 1076 00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:56,000 is the balance piece. 1077 00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:57,910 But I do appreciate, in particular, 1078 00:51:57,910 --> 00:51:59,830 as there is changes in the regime coming through 1079 00:51:59,830 --> 00:52:02,620 with MPAPA being updated, it is exceptionally 1080 00:52:02,620 --> 00:52:03,100 important 1081 00:52:03,100 --> 00:52:05,320 from at least my perspective, that the city makes 1082 00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:05,570 sure 1083 00:52:05,570 --> 00:52:07,400 that everything that you are doing from a program 1084 00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:07,500 , 1085 00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:09,280 from a process from a controls perspective, 1086 00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:10,710 is meeting those minimum standards. 1087 00:52:10,710 --> 00:52:12,670 And they are quite explicit in the changes 1088 00:52:12,670 --> 00:52:14,700 that are being put forward in those two bills. 1089 00:52:14,700 --> 00:52:16,460 So that's gonna be our first priority. 1090 00:52:16,460 --> 00:52:18,670 And if there are other things that we can advise 1091 00:52:18,670 --> 00:52:19,530 upon, 1092 00:52:19,530 --> 00:52:21,520 we will look to do so. 1093 00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:22,740 - Thank you, Councilor Troso. 1094 00:52:22,740 --> 00:52:27,790 - Yes, I'm still concerned that in taking, 1095 00:52:29,420 --> 00:52:32,140 a prudent risk management approach to making sure 1096 00:52:32,140 --> 00:52:34,400 you meet the minimum standards, you may 1097 00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:38,540 overshoot them a little bit. And in the case of 1098 00:52:38,540 --> 00:52:41,990 the provincial privacy regime, it's the 1099 00:52:41,990 --> 00:52:44,700 same commissioner's office that deals with the 1100 00:52:44,700 --> 00:52:47,090 access to information requests. Whereas 1101 00:52:47,090 --> 00:52:52,120 in the federal system, there's different offices. 1102 00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:53,870 So it's often the case where you're 1103 00:52:53,870 --> 00:52:59,480 in the provincial jurisdiction that in, for 1104 00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:05,410 example, taking an overly broad objection 1105 00:53:05,410 --> 00:53:08,880 to an information request on the grounds that it 1106 00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:13,580 protects privacy could get you out of potential 1107 00:53:13,580 --> 00:53:18,430 privacy violation, but that same action sets up 1108 00:53:18,430 --> 00:53:22,440 an access to information problem. 1109 00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:26,530 So the problem I have with an overall framing of 1110 00:53:26,530 --> 00:53:35,580 a privacy, what it is, is that the right 1111 00:53:35,580 --> 00:53:39,360 to access to information, it's not a 1112 00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:41,670 constitutional right, but courts have often 1113 00:53:41,670 --> 00:53:42,430 characterized 1114 00:53:42,430 --> 00:53:44,770 it as a quasi-constitutional right. 1115 00:53:44,770 --> 00:53:47,220 So you have to be very careful that in protecting 1116 00:53:47,220 --> 00:53:49,660 privacy, you don't over protect privacy. 1117 00:53:49,660 --> 00:53:50,650 Thank you, Councillor. 1118 00:53:50,650 --> 00:53:52,400 say that this plan before us has already been 1119 00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:54,660 approved by the audit committee and budgeted 1120 00:53:54,660 --> 00:54:02,050 for. So just to keep your, yeah, just talk about 1121 00:54:02,050 --> 00:54:03,860 scope. If you had something you wanted 1122 00:54:03,860 --> 00:54:06,020 to flag, which he already said he'd bring an 1123 00:54:06,020 --> 00:54:06,980 independent. 1124 00:54:06,980 --> 00:54:12,420 Yes, thank you for the chair for me. Yes, what I 1125 00:54:12,420 --> 00:54:15,390 want to flag is that in, in, in 1126 00:54:15,390 --> 00:54:18,990 satisfying your scope here, you may be creating 1127 00:54:18,990 --> 00:54:22,070 other problems later. And I'm, I'm hoping 1128 00:54:22,070 --> 00:54:26,580 that you have experts not just on privacy as such 1129 00:54:26,580 --> 00:54:28,670 , but on the interface between our privacy 1130 00:54:28,670 --> 00:54:30,870 and access to information regimes. 1131 00:54:30,870 --> 00:54:35,270 Thank you very much. 1132 00:54:35,270 --> 00:54:36,330 Thank you. 1133 00:54:36,330 --> 00:54:39,030 Looking for further comments online or in 1134 00:54:39,030 --> 00:54:42,840 chambers, is this is a motion to receive? 1135 00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:46,830 This report of 4.2 calling the question by hand, 1136 00:54:46,830 --> 00:54:50,740 all in favor of receiving report? 1137 00:54:50,740 --> 00:54:52,620 Motion carries. 1138 00:54:52,620 --> 00:54:53,610 Thank you, 4.3. 1139 00:54:53,610 --> 00:54:55,160 This would also be a motion to receive. 1140 00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:57,370 This is the internal audit follow-up activities 1141 00:54:57,370 --> 00:54:59,530 dashboard, also by MNP, commencing on page 1142 00:54:59,530 --> 00:55:02,390 I would just like to highlight for the committee 1143 00:55:02,390 --> 00:55:06,810 was again based on that direction from council, 1144 00:55:06,810 --> 00:55:09,620 there was that adjustment that we made with 1145 00:55:09,620 --> 00:55:13,030 regards to several items and we noted them that 1146 00:55:13,030 --> 00:55:15,830 are have been put on for on track for completion, 1147 00:55:15,830 --> 00:55:18,640 that would have been in a previous iteration for 1148 00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:20,830 and based on that direction from Council, 1149 00:55:20,830 --> 00:55:22,260 there was that adjustment that we made 1150 00:55:22,260 --> 00:55:23,740 with regards to several items. 1151 00:55:23,740 --> 00:55:27,240 And we noted them that have been put on 1152 00:55:27,240 --> 00:55:29,150 for on track for completion. 1153 00:55:29,150 --> 00:55:31,070 That would have been in a previous iteration 1154 00:55:31,070 --> 00:55:33,660 for last cycle been noted as completed, 1155 00:55:33,660 --> 00:55:35,650 but again, we factored in that direction. 1156 00:55:35,650 --> 00:55:38,230 So thank you. 1157 00:55:38,230 --> 00:55:39,660 - Thank you. 1158 00:55:39,660 --> 00:55:40,920 Look to Mr. Chima online. 1159 00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:42,860 If you had any questions to start us off, that is 1160 00:55:42,860 --> 00:55:43,090 a no. 1161 00:55:43,090 --> 00:55:46,810 So open to others for questions or comments on 1162 00:55:46,810 --> 00:55:50,600 item 4.2. 1163 00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:52,840 Sir, actually it's 4.3 at this point. 1164 00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:55,110 I'll start with Councillor Stevenson. 1165 00:55:55,110 --> 00:55:56,270 - Thank you, I just wanna go back 1166 00:55:56,270 --> 00:55:58,690 to that tenant transition plan. 1167 00:55:58,690 --> 00:56:02,530 And the dates aren't on here, 1168 00:56:02,530 --> 00:56:07,140 but I think it goes back to the initial audit 1169 00:56:07,140 --> 00:56:10,450 of 122 baseline. 1170 00:56:10,450 --> 00:56:12,970 And out of that, it was identified 1171 00:56:12,970 --> 00:56:16,320 that the tenant mix had changed from the initial 1172 00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:16,900 plans 1173 00:56:16,900 --> 00:56:19,890 when the building was being proposed and built, 1174 00:56:19,890 --> 00:56:23,840 and that the tenant profile that was used 1175 00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:26,520 to put people into that building 1176 00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:29,710 was not exactly, but one third homeless, 1177 00:56:29,710 --> 00:56:32,910 one third mentally ill and addicted, 1178 00:56:32,910 --> 00:56:35,400 and one third women and children fleeing domestic 1179 00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:36,070 violence. 1180 00:56:36,070 --> 00:56:39,200 It was raised in the audit 1181 00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:42,660 that this was a change that had impacted the 1182 00:56:42,660 --> 00:56:43,100 building. 1183 00:56:43,100 --> 00:56:44,460 The recommendation, as I recall, 1184 00:56:44,460 --> 00:56:48,130 was to harden the building and increase the 1185 00:56:48,130 --> 00:56:49,060 budget. 1186 00:56:49,060 --> 00:56:52,340 But this committee referred to governance working 1187 00:56:52,340 --> 00:56:52,440 group 1188 00:56:52,340 --> 00:56:56,200 around that change, how that change happened. 1189 00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:57,740 It happened that I couldn't see 1190 00:56:57,740 --> 00:57:00,080 where there was a council direction for that. 1191 00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:04,720 It was internally all done through the city. 1192 00:57:04,720 --> 00:57:08,320 So I guess I just wanna ask through you chair to 1193 00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:09,410 staff. 1194 00:57:09,410 --> 00:57:13,620 Does staff believe that the tenant transition 1195 00:57:13,620 --> 00:57:14,320 plan 1196 00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:22,200 that was presented to caps in June addresses the 1197 00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:22,470 issues 1198 00:57:22,470 --> 00:57:31,750 and has a pathway that will change that tenant 1199 00:57:31,750 --> 00:57:31,950 mix? 1200 00:57:33,850 --> 00:57:37,860 And I believe there's a report coming back again 1201 00:57:37,860 --> 00:57:38,700 later in the year. 1202 00:57:38,700 --> 00:57:40,880 But I just wanted to confirm through you to staff 1203 00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:44,110 , do they feel that the tenant transition 1204 00:57:44,110 --> 00:57:49,500 plan that was received in June is enough to take 1205 00:57:49,500 --> 00:57:52,880 this off of this list? 1206 00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:55,100 Or how do they feel about leaving this until 1207 00:57:55,100 --> 00:57:57,620 December when we actually see and follow this 1208 00:57:57,620 --> 00:57:58,610 through to the end? 1209 00:57:58,610 --> 00:58:01,100 The ideal thing being that we have a better mix 1210 00:58:01,100 --> 00:58:03,270 of tenants in that building to provide 1211 00:58:03,270 --> 00:58:05,640 better health and safety and lives for the people 1212 00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:07,010 who live there and people who 1213 00:58:07,010 --> 00:58:08,240 live around us. 1214 00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:11,760 You're on page 57 that first the first one. Okay 1215 00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:14,930 so page 57 number one to 1216 00:58:14,930 --> 00:58:17,980 staff realizing thought it's in front of us and 1217 00:58:17,980 --> 00:58:20,690 if the method's taken if you 1218 00:58:20,690 --> 00:58:22,590 believe it addresses the concerns raised in the 1219 00:58:22,590 --> 00:58:25,000 could be multiple 1220 00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:27,280 departments. I'll just I'll just speak firstly 1221 00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:28,630 through the chair I'll just 1222 00:58:28,630 --> 00:58:30,950 firstly speak to the June report that we just 1223 00:58:30,950 --> 00:58:33,190 brought forward to the to the 1224 00:58:33,190 --> 00:58:34,940 the CAHPS committee. 1225 00:58:34,940 --> 00:58:38,570 So through that, of course, you can't change 1226 00:58:38,570 --> 00:58:40,760 an attendant mix overnight. 1227 00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:43,280 There's processes you need to go through 1228 00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:45,830 to ensure that that continues to move. 1229 00:58:45,830 --> 00:58:47,910 As mentioned by the counselor, 1230 00:58:47,910 --> 00:58:49,990 we have committed to annual reports 1231 00:58:49,990 --> 00:58:51,180 to provide more information. 1232 00:58:51,180 --> 00:58:53,300 So there will be a report later this year 1233 00:58:53,300 --> 00:58:56,090 highlighting many changes in that mix. 1234 00:58:56,090 --> 00:58:59,090 We are confident working with LMCH 1235 00:58:59,090 --> 00:59:01,200 that they have the same goals as we do 1236 00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:03,600 to be able to ensure that the people that are in 1237 00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:06,400 that housing are people that are stable 1238 00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:10,070 and can continue to be in that space and be able 1239 00:59:10,070 --> 00:59:13,100 to meet all of the commitments they need 1240 00:59:13,100 --> 00:59:15,220 to be able to live in that housing. 1241 00:59:15,220 --> 00:59:17,410 So from that perspective, we do have that 1242 00:59:17,410 --> 00:59:19,850 confidence as far as whether this should come 1243 00:59:19,850 --> 00:59:21,600 off the list or not, that's usually something 1244 00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:23,840 that would be assessed by the auditor themselves. 1245 00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:26,740 But we do feel that LMCH is very committed to be 1246 00:59:26,740 --> 00:59:29,310 to making these changes and to support 1247 00:59:29,310 --> 00:59:34,310 of that transition over time of the tenant mix. 1248 00:59:34,310 --> 00:59:40,030 - Councilor Stevenson. 1249 00:59:40,030 --> 00:59:44,810 - Yeah, I guess I'm just thinking we had this 1250 00:59:44,810 --> 00:59:45,430 stay on 1251 00:59:45,430 --> 00:59:47,920 until that was done. 1252 00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:49,780 I think I'm okay with leaving it now, 1253 00:59:49,780 --> 00:59:51,870 but there is that, like, that we achieved the 1254 00:59:51,870 --> 00:59:52,360 objective 1255 00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:53,390 to which we set out, right? 1256 00:59:53,390 --> 00:59:55,130 That we had it on here for a reason. 1257 00:59:55,130 --> 00:59:57,910 We delayed it, had it on here to ensure, 1258 00:59:57,910 --> 01:00:02,530 and the point was to be sure that we were being 1259 01:00:02,530 --> 01:00:03,310 effective 1260 01:00:03,310 --> 01:00:04,950 in what we were choosing to do. 1261 01:00:04,950 --> 01:00:06,870 So thank you. 1262 01:00:06,870 --> 01:00:11,220 - Thank you for their questions on item 4.3 1263 01:00:11,220 --> 01:00:14,280 as it's a motion to receive. 1264 01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:18,530 Seeing none online, none in chambers, a show of 1265 01:00:18,530 --> 01:00:21,410 hands. 1266 01:00:21,410 --> 01:00:23,140 - Motion carries. 1267 01:00:23,140 --> 01:00:26,410 - Thank you, that brings us on to 4.4. 1268 01:00:26,410 --> 01:00:28,690 This is the subdivision review process audit. 1269 01:00:28,690 --> 01:00:32,600 It's gonna be a motion to receive moved by Coun 1270 01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:32,760 cillor 1271 01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:35,130 Stevenson, seconded by Councillor Cuddy. 1272 01:00:35,130 --> 01:00:37,310 Also looking for a motion to approve our 1273 01:00:37,310 --> 01:00:38,230 delegation 1274 01:00:38,230 --> 01:00:40,810 requests from Mr. Walz at this time. 1275 01:00:40,810 --> 01:00:42,860 Okay, so that's part of it, same mover and second 1276 01:00:42,860 --> 01:00:43,220 er. 1277 01:00:43,220 --> 01:00:46,260 I'll go to MNP for a brief introduction, 1278 01:00:46,260 --> 01:00:49,690 and then Mr. Wallace can have the floor, 1279 01:00:49,690 --> 01:00:51,680 and then I will also, after that, 1280 01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:53,480 go to Mr. Chairman if he's still with us 1281 01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:55,470 to start us off on questions, or do you have any? 1282 01:00:55,470 --> 01:00:56,860 Mr. Racco. 1283 01:00:56,860 --> 01:00:58,810 - Thank you, through you, Madam Chair. 1284 01:00:58,810 --> 01:01:01,200 So before you is the final report 1285 01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:03,900 for the subdivision review process audit, 1286 01:01:03,900 --> 01:01:06,330 a couple of things just to note for the committee 1287 01:01:06,330 --> 01:01:08,620 as you had digested this information. 1288 01:01:08,620 --> 01:01:12,930 So a slight that we, 1289 01:01:12,930 --> 01:01:14,750 there was an addition to this that we did 1290 01:01:14,750 --> 01:01:17,490 in order to gather additional information for the 1291 01:01:17,490 --> 01:01:17,690 city, 1292 01:01:17,690 --> 01:01:19,550 which you'll see in there is a jurisdictional 1293 01:01:19,550 --> 01:01:20,180 scan, 1294 01:01:20,180 --> 01:01:22,970 specifically factoring in information 1295 01:01:22,970 --> 01:01:25,040 that we were able to gather from the cities 1296 01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:26,670 of Kingston, Kitchener, and Hamilton 1297 01:01:26,670 --> 01:01:28,820 in order to look at the way that they also 1298 01:01:28,820 --> 01:01:30,730 go through this process. 1299 01:01:30,730 --> 01:01:32,750 So that was factored in and you would have seen 1300 01:01:32,750 --> 01:01:32,850 it 1301 01:01:32,830 --> 01:01:34,060 through some of our observations, 1302 01:01:34,060 --> 01:01:35,340 and there is an appendix in there 1303 01:01:35,340 --> 01:01:36,700 that would have highlighted some of the high 1304 01:01:36,700 --> 01:01:37,280 level 1305 01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:39,480 observations that we had from there for your 1306 01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:40,380 interests. 1307 01:01:40,380 --> 01:01:44,560 I think that if I was to look to summarize the 1308 01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:44,960 findings 1309 01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:47,650 and the recommendations, they're mainly 1310 01:01:47,650 --> 01:01:50,510 around that phrase of streamlining. 1311 01:01:50,510 --> 01:01:53,140 There are opportunities with which the city goes 1312 01:01:53,140 --> 01:01:55,970 through the subdivision review process. 1313 01:01:55,970 --> 01:01:58,720 That allows for us to get to point A to point B, 1314 01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:00,230 but there are sometimes loopbacks 1315 01:02:00,230 --> 01:02:02,100 as there would happen with any process like this 1316 01:02:02,100 --> 01:02:04,850 when there is review cycles that need to go 1317 01:02:04,850 --> 01:02:05,370 through. 1318 01:02:05,370 --> 01:02:07,720 And in going through and looking at that, 1319 01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:09,560 there is some opportunities to stream like that 1320 01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:11,390 and avoid some fragmentation. 1321 01:02:11,390 --> 01:02:13,220 So I'll just leave it at that. 1322 01:02:13,220 --> 01:02:15,670 And then I'll pass it back to you, Madam Chair. 1323 01:02:15,670 --> 01:02:16,490 - Thank you. 1324 01:02:16,490 --> 01:02:20,700 If we can have the Michael Live bottom corner 1325 01:02:20,700 --> 01:02:24,180 on the side for Mr. Wallace. 1326 01:02:24,180 --> 01:02:25,570 - We're on, thank you, Madam Chair. 1327 01:02:25,570 --> 01:02:29,010 And thank you for approving my delegation today. 1328 01:02:29,010 --> 01:02:33,860 And this is my first as Councillor Troso 1329 01:02:33,860 --> 01:02:37,300 first in seven years presentation committee 1330 01:02:37,300 --> 01:02:39,430 and I think it might be my last. 1331 01:02:39,430 --> 01:02:43,270 But as I'm leaving in a little while, 1332 01:02:43,270 --> 01:02:46,660 so appreciate the audit. 1333 01:02:46,660 --> 01:02:50,210 We have three things we'd like to say. 1334 01:02:50,210 --> 01:02:54,320 First of all, staff, the city staff, 1335 01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:56,520 have been working with the industry 1336 01:02:56,520 --> 01:03:00,530 on the subdivision issue over the last number of 1337 01:03:00,530 --> 01:03:00,820 years 1338 01:03:00,820 --> 01:03:03,390 and have made significant progress. 1339 01:03:03,390 --> 01:03:05,960 Your staff are doing a great job 1340 01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:10,480 with the leadership under Scott and his team 1341 01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:13,050 that we are looking at different items. 1342 01:03:13,050 --> 01:03:15,980 On page one, however, under the scope, 1343 01:03:15,980 --> 01:03:22,170 and I'm not throwing the consultants under the 1344 01:03:22,170 --> 01:03:22,830 bus on this, 1345 01:03:22,830 --> 01:03:26,650 it goes to the direction that you have to give 1346 01:03:26,650 --> 01:03:27,110 them, 1347 01:03:27,110 --> 01:03:29,810 which was just discussed on the other piece. 1348 01:03:29,810 --> 01:03:32,550 Under State Colders interviews, it says it was 1349 01:03:32,550 --> 01:03:34,930 all staff. 1350 01:03:34,930 --> 01:03:39,630 Well, we have a number of organizations within 1351 01:03:39,630 --> 01:03:40,320 London, 1352 01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:42,140 particularly the London Development Institute, 1353 01:03:42,140 --> 01:03:45,190 which I represent, who are proactively working 1354 01:03:45,190 --> 01:03:46,380 with staff. 1355 01:03:46,380 --> 01:03:50,640 It would have been great if the consultant, 1356 01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:53,500 in this case, interviewed us. 1357 01:03:53,500 --> 01:03:57,570 We may have had some information on how, 1358 01:03:57,570 --> 01:03:59,000 since we are the stakeholder 1359 01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:02,800 of the sort of vision process that did not happen 1360 01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:03,340 . 1361 01:04:03,340 --> 01:04:08,570 My understanding, we certainly offered and never 1362 01:04:08,570 --> 01:04:09,880 happened. 1363 01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:13,650 In addition to that, we may have helped 1364 01:04:13,650 --> 01:04:15,850 with where other cities you could scan, 1365 01:04:15,850 --> 01:04:20,050 which because everyone in my members works in 1366 01:04:20,050 --> 01:04:22,860 other communities and maybe we could steer 1367 01:04:22,860 --> 01:04:25,110 them to where they could look at where other 1368 01:04:25,110 --> 01:04:27,430 communities are doing well or not as well 1369 01:04:27,430 --> 01:04:29,130 as us. 1370 01:04:29,130 --> 01:04:33,360 And you know, we would help with making sure the 1371 01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:35,260 facts were accurate. 1372 01:04:35,260 --> 01:04:38,510 As was mentioned in the appendix, it talks about 1373 01:04:38,510 --> 01:04:40,360 requirements of developers in those 1374 01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:42,660 three other communities and the first line is 1375 01:04:42,660 --> 01:04:46,600 about participate in mandatory subdivision 1376 01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:49,700 That's against the law has changed. 1377 01:04:49,700 --> 01:04:52,590 There is no such thing as mandatory pre-consult 1378 01:04:52,590 --> 01:04:53,860 ation. 1379 01:04:53,860 --> 01:04:56,220 And so that happens here. 1380 01:04:56,220 --> 01:04:58,360 Most of my members do participate 1381 01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:00,270 in the pre-consultation process, 1382 01:05:00,270 --> 01:05:02,080 but it doesn't always happen. 1383 01:05:02,080 --> 01:05:05,910 So we are making progress here. 1384 01:05:05,910 --> 01:05:08,550 And I think the good news out of this audit, 1385 01:05:08,550 --> 01:05:13,880 this program audit, remember these are program 1386 01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:14,180 audits 1387 01:05:14,180 --> 01:05:16,920 or operational audits, they're not financial 1388 01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:17,280 audits, 1389 01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:18,820 which you've just dealt with earlier in the 1390 01:05:18,820 --> 01:05:19,150 meeting. 1391 01:05:19,150 --> 01:05:21,250 So the good news, everything's in that, 1392 01:05:21,250 --> 01:05:23,360 what the definition from the consultant 1393 01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:27,110 is that what medium risk is. 1394 01:05:27,110 --> 01:05:29,200 I would say from our perspective, 1395 01:05:29,200 --> 01:05:33,450 the communication lines for us, 1396 01:05:33,450 --> 01:05:34,830 not just in the subdivisions, 1397 01:05:34,830 --> 01:05:38,570 but in other development application issues, 1398 01:05:38,570 --> 01:05:40,230 have been clearly open, 1399 01:05:40,230 --> 01:05:42,370 and then we have very proactive, 1400 01:05:42,370 --> 01:05:44,950 productive discussions on how to improve things, 1401 01:05:44,950 --> 01:05:46,500 and on the subdivision piece, 1402 01:05:46,500 --> 01:05:49,880 just for comfort level for you folks on the 1403 01:05:49,880 --> 01:05:51,030 committee side, 1404 01:05:51,030 --> 01:05:54,330 and the city side is that we are making progress. 1405 01:05:54,330 --> 01:06:00,220 And I don't think this audit reflects how well 1406 01:06:00,220 --> 01:06:04,640 that department is doing and try to make change 1407 01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:05,700 and make improvements. 1408 01:06:05,700 --> 01:06:09,500 Thank you. 1409 01:06:09,500 --> 01:06:12,300 - Thank you. 1410 01:06:12,300 --> 01:06:15,780 Looking to Mr. Chima, if you have any comments 1411 01:06:15,780 --> 01:06:18,740 on this to start us off, I see a no. 1412 01:06:18,740 --> 01:06:20,220 Looking to other visiting members 1413 01:06:20,220 --> 01:06:22,040 and member of committee, 1414 01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:23,240 I will start with members of the committee, 1415 01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:25,650 Councillor Stevenson. 1416 01:06:25,650 --> 01:06:27,020 - Thank you. 1417 01:06:27,020 --> 01:06:29,560 Yeah, the subdivision one was an interesting one 1418 01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:32,300 and it does confirm a lot of things 1419 01:06:32,300 --> 01:06:34,660 that I've been hearing over the last couple of 1420 01:06:34,660 --> 01:06:35,040 years, 1421 01:06:35,040 --> 01:06:36,980 whether the developers are big or small 1422 01:06:36,980 --> 01:06:41,610 or the complaints seem to be the same. 1423 01:06:41,610 --> 01:06:43,190 And they are confirmed here. 1424 01:06:43,190 --> 01:06:44,730 So glad to hear we're making progress. 1425 01:06:44,730 --> 01:06:46,510 It makes me a little concerned about where we 1426 01:06:46,510 --> 01:06:46,900 began, 1427 01:06:46,900 --> 01:06:50,690 but so just through you to staff, 1428 01:06:50,690 --> 01:06:59,040 well, actually could we get a little bit of just 1429 01:06:59,040 --> 01:06:59,380 a summary 1430 01:06:59,540 --> 01:07:01,590 from the auditors on this one. 1431 01:07:01,590 --> 01:07:05,350 I'd be interested to just hear some of the key 1432 01:07:05,350 --> 01:07:05,660 things 1433 01:07:05,660 --> 01:07:09,770 that you want us to hear about this report. 1434 01:07:09,770 --> 01:07:15,060 - Yeah, below, beyond Canada, a few more details. 1435 01:07:15,060 --> 01:07:16,880 - Sure, through you, Madam Chair. 1436 01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:21,640 So a couple of things to step back on. 1437 01:07:21,640 --> 01:07:26,120 I do think an echoing the commentary that's been 1438 01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:28,640 even Councillor, you just provided there. 1439 01:07:30,310 --> 01:07:34,140 are, there is great improvements that the city 1440 01:07:34,140 --> 01:07:34,360 makes 1441 01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:36,660 in all of its programs and this would be, 1442 01:07:36,660 --> 01:07:38,680 this would be one of them as well to kind of see 1443 01:07:38,680 --> 01:07:39,820 the progress that's being made. 1444 01:07:39,820 --> 01:07:43,320 I think that the other important factor in 1445 01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:43,660 general, 1446 01:07:43,660 --> 01:07:46,600 but from my understanding and from our 1447 01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:47,110 understanding 1448 01:07:47,110 --> 01:07:50,020 of the subdivision review process in particular, 1449 01:07:50,020 --> 01:07:51,940 is that the operating environment 1450 01:07:51,940 --> 01:07:53,940 and the regulatory environment continue to evolve 1451 01:07:53,940 --> 01:07:54,330 , right? 1452 01:07:54,330 --> 01:07:56,650 And that is specifically relevant, 1453 01:07:56,650 --> 01:07:59,080 particularly in the last five years. 1454 01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:01,880 within any infrastructure review process. 1455 01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:05,830 So I think that has to be taken into account. 1456 01:08:05,830 --> 01:08:08,320 I do think that, again, if you were to look to 1457 01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:08,900 section six 1458 01:08:08,900 --> 01:08:11,700 of the report that summarized some of the 1459 01:08:11,700 --> 01:08:12,600 strengths there, 1460 01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:14,290 highlighting, again, the continuous improvement 1461 01:08:14,290 --> 01:08:14,570 efforts, 1462 01:08:14,570 --> 01:08:17,370 I think is an important piece, 1463 01:08:17,370 --> 01:08:20,640 as well as working to make sure 1464 01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:24,020 that there is centralized information and data 1465 01:08:24,020 --> 01:08:24,510 available. 1466 01:08:24,510 --> 01:08:27,600 When we get into the summary of observations, 1467 01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:30,360 a couple things as we looked to kind of capture 1468 01:08:30,360 --> 01:08:30,720 within there. 1469 01:08:30,720 --> 01:08:32,770 And again, to highlight there was nothing 1470 01:08:32,770 --> 01:08:35,510 that was a glaring high finding. 1471 01:08:35,510 --> 01:08:39,890 But going back to my very short preface 1472 01:08:39,890 --> 01:08:41,720 before as we introduced the item, 1473 01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:43,790 I really do think there is the theme 1474 01:08:43,790 --> 01:08:45,970 that we can kind of take away from this process 1475 01:08:45,970 --> 01:08:46,940 is-- 1476 01:08:46,940 --> 01:08:49,320 or this review is optimization of the process. 1477 01:08:49,320 --> 01:08:54,140 And I realize that is the most very broad concept 1478 01:08:54,140 --> 01:08:55,020 to kind of look towards. 1479 01:08:55,020 --> 01:08:56,610 But it goes back to that strength 1480 01:08:56,610 --> 01:08:58,820 that we identified in section six of continuous 1481 01:08:58,820 --> 01:08:59,830 improvement. 1482 01:08:59,830 --> 01:09:02,570 So as we go through and as we have the 1483 01:09:02,570 --> 01:09:03,090 opportunity 1484 01:09:03,090 --> 01:09:06,030 to make sure that we have as item one highlights, 1485 01:09:06,030 --> 01:09:09,340 clarification of those requirements at the outset 1486 01:09:09,340 --> 01:09:12,700 so that we can avoid resubmissions further 1487 01:09:12,700 --> 01:09:12,980 clarification. 1488 01:09:12,980 --> 01:09:17,300 Having opportunities where we can have maybe 1489 01:09:17,300 --> 01:09:20,770 as item four would highlight multi-department 1490 01:09:20,770 --> 01:09:21,920 circulation, 1491 01:09:21,920 --> 01:09:23,590 can we actually coordinate that a little bit more 1492 01:09:23,590 --> 01:09:23,700 ? 1493 01:09:23,700 --> 01:09:25,860 So again, I think I go back to the opportunities 1494 01:09:25,860 --> 01:09:26,340 of, 1495 01:09:26,340 --> 01:09:30,010 Can we streamline to create a quicker way 1496 01:09:30,010 --> 01:09:31,380 we can go from A to B? 1497 01:09:31,380 --> 01:09:33,190 I think, again, is the essence of what we're 1498 01:09:33,190 --> 01:09:33,420 trying 1499 01:09:33,420 --> 01:09:38,050 to highlight within the audit itself. 1500 01:09:38,050 --> 01:09:39,430 - Councillor Stu, that's it? 1501 01:09:39,430 --> 01:09:41,540 - Okay, thank you for that. 1502 01:09:41,540 --> 01:09:45,260 I would like to know, so on page 76, 1503 01:09:45,260 --> 01:09:47,440 when it talks about the clarification 1504 01:09:47,440 --> 01:09:50,810 of submission requirements to reduce resub 1505 01:09:50,810 --> 01:09:51,310 missions, 1506 01:09:51,310 --> 01:09:53,070 Civic Administration is talking about bringing a 1507 01:09:53,070 --> 01:09:53,550 report 1508 01:09:53,550 --> 01:10:00,430 back in Q3 2027, you know, given the need for 1509 01:10:00,430 --> 01:10:00,530 housing 1510 01:10:01,180 --> 01:10:03,920 and how we hear it slow and Minister Flax is all 1511 01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:04,310 the time. 1512 01:10:04,310 --> 01:10:05,840 It's the problem with housing. 1513 01:10:05,840 --> 01:10:08,330 It's too expensive and it takes too long. 1514 01:10:08,330 --> 01:10:11,890 So can I just ask why it's gonna take so long 1515 01:10:11,890 --> 01:10:13,540 on something that's so urgent 1516 01:10:13,540 --> 01:10:14,790 and especially subdivisions 1517 01:10:14,790 --> 01:10:21,270 when we're talking about a lot of units? 1518 01:10:21,270 --> 01:10:22,080 - I don't know. 1519 01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:23,530 City staff wants to start us off on this one, Mr. 1520 01:10:23,530 --> 01:10:24,030 Phoenix. 1521 01:10:24,030 --> 01:10:25,410 - Absolutely through the chair. 1522 01:10:25,410 --> 01:10:28,520 So that's absolutely why it has that timing 1523 01:10:28,520 --> 01:10:30,770 and I'll give you a little bit of a fact on that. 1524 01:10:30,770 --> 01:10:35,750 So as part of when we brought from the council 1525 01:10:36,110 --> 01:10:38,900 brought forward the housing pledge in 2023. 1526 01:10:38,900 --> 01:10:41,010 We established a reference group. 1527 01:10:41,010 --> 01:10:43,040 That reference group is the customer service 1528 01:10:43,040 --> 01:10:45,350 and process improvement group. 1529 01:10:45,350 --> 01:10:49,050 Since May of 2023, we've met 31 times 1530 01:10:49,050 --> 01:10:53,660 and that's we always have our friends from LDI 1531 01:10:53,660 --> 01:10:55,750 at those meetings and that's the time that we 1532 01:10:55,750 --> 01:10:56,560 speak to 1533 01:10:56,560 --> 01:10:58,350 and look at specifically at anything 1534 01:10:58,350 --> 01:11:01,720 that the industry is looking to make some 1535 01:11:01,720 --> 01:11:02,410 improvements to 1536 01:11:02,410 --> 01:11:04,480 and we have an opportunity to share what we hear 1537 01:11:04,480 --> 01:11:06,690 from council be able to have an opportunity to 1538 01:11:06,690 --> 01:11:07,100 share 1539 01:11:07,100 --> 01:11:08,100 what we can do to improve. 1540 01:11:08,100 --> 01:11:12,340 So over that period of time, we've, as I 1541 01:11:12,340 --> 01:11:12,650 mentioned, 1542 01:11:12,650 --> 01:11:14,010 had 31 meetings. 1543 01:11:14,010 --> 01:11:17,230 We've completed 39 different improvements. 1544 01:11:17,230 --> 01:11:21,720 And currently we have about 18 improvements 1545 01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:23,230 on our working list. 1546 01:11:23,230 --> 01:11:25,420 And we always prioritize a few of those items. 1547 01:11:25,420 --> 01:11:29,280 So we have three items that are the priorities. 1548 01:11:29,280 --> 01:11:31,350 Those priorities are determined through our 1549 01:11:31,350 --> 01:11:32,430 conversations. 1550 01:11:32,430 --> 01:11:34,100 It's not just the city unilaterally saying, 1551 01:11:34,100 --> 01:11:35,530 is what we're gonna do next. 1552 01:11:35,530 --> 01:11:37,410 We have a group conversation. 1553 01:11:37,410 --> 01:11:40,790 We have over 30 members of the development 1554 01:11:40,790 --> 01:11:41,070 community 1555 01:11:41,070 --> 01:11:43,100 that regularly attend the meeting 1556 01:11:43,100 --> 01:11:45,450 and we identify what the priorities are. 1557 01:11:45,450 --> 01:11:48,360 So as our last meeting was in May, 1558 01:11:48,360 --> 01:11:49,200 we did this effort. 1559 01:11:49,200 --> 01:11:51,270 So as soon as we complete one of our targeted 1560 01:11:51,270 --> 01:11:51,590 items, 1561 01:11:51,590 --> 01:11:53,350 we add any item. 1562 01:11:53,350 --> 01:11:55,990 And when we did that in the last meeting, 1563 01:11:55,990 --> 01:11:57,960 we highlighted subdivision process review 1564 01:11:57,960 --> 01:12:00,060 as a possible item that would be 1565 01:12:00,060 --> 01:12:01,300 that we could add to that list. 1566 01:12:01,300 --> 01:12:03,370 It was decided through that group 1567 01:12:03,370 --> 01:12:06,700 that that wasn't a priority for them at this time 1568 01:12:06,700 --> 01:12:06,800 . 1569 01:12:06,700 --> 01:12:08,610 And part of that reason is that 1570 01:12:08,610 --> 01:12:12,080 the subdivision activity has dipped a bit, 1571 01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:14,870 but there's other components that are part of 1572 01:12:14,870 --> 01:12:15,550 that process 1573 01:12:15,550 --> 01:12:16,780 that they'd like to focus in on 1574 01:12:16,780 --> 01:12:20,010 rather than have just an overall process review. 1575 01:12:20,010 --> 01:12:22,040 So that's what we've decided to do 1576 01:12:22,040 --> 01:12:24,830 is move forward with a component of that 1577 01:12:24,830 --> 01:12:28,290 and focus on what is really seen from the 1578 01:12:28,290 --> 01:12:28,390 industry 1579 01:12:28,300 --> 01:12:29,710 and from our work with them 1580 01:12:29,710 --> 01:12:31,160 as being what the priorities are. 1581 01:12:31,160 --> 01:12:34,200 So this is still important and absolutely, 1582 01:12:34,200 --> 01:12:36,410 we think we should be looking at the subdivision 1583 01:12:36,410 --> 01:12:36,950 process 1584 01:12:36,950 --> 01:12:39,210 over the long term, but it's not something 1585 01:12:39,210 --> 01:12:41,200 that was highlighted as a specific priority 1586 01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:43,550 to work on over the next six months. 1587 01:12:43,550 --> 01:12:45,450 But we do want to ensure that it's completed. 1588 01:12:45,450 --> 01:12:49,590 So that's why we provided that timing of 2027. 1589 01:12:49,590 --> 01:12:50,880 - Councilor Stevenson. 1590 01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:51,700 - Okay, thanks. 1591 01:12:51,700 --> 01:12:53,650 - I'll also note Councilor Pribble 1592 01:12:53,650 --> 01:12:55,030 and Chima who both left the meeting. 1593 01:12:55,030 --> 01:13:00,740 So quorum is us three, so you're all with me. 1594 01:13:00,740 --> 01:13:02,060 - Okay, thank you. 1595 01:13:02,060 --> 01:13:05,130 And no pressure. 1596 01:13:05,130 --> 01:13:08,560 And thank you, that explanation really helps. 1597 01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:12,570 The other one was around technology. 1598 01:13:12,570 --> 01:13:15,030 And it's got a target of Q1, 2027. 1599 01:13:15,030 --> 01:13:17,050 Can you just give me an update on the technology? 1600 01:13:17,050 --> 01:13:18,570 I can't remember if there was a multi-year 1601 01:13:18,570 --> 01:13:19,230 business case 1602 01:13:19,230 --> 01:13:20,970 and we didn't fund it, or did you get it? 1603 01:13:20,970 --> 01:13:24,040 And how is that going, Mr. Mathers? 1604 01:13:24,040 --> 01:13:25,360 - Absolutely. 1605 01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:27,430 There was a business case that we brought forward 1606 01:13:27,430 --> 01:13:27,910 to council 1607 01:13:27,910 --> 01:13:28,790 and that was approved. 1608 01:13:28,790 --> 01:13:31,060 And we've been diligently working through that. 1609 01:13:31,060 --> 01:13:32,540 There are certain items that we've actually 1610 01:13:32,540 --> 01:13:34,100 brought forward. 1611 01:13:34,100 --> 01:13:36,850 And there is that due date of being able to have 1612 01:13:36,850 --> 01:13:37,290 that complete. 1613 01:13:37,290 --> 01:13:39,240 And that's our anticipated timeline. 1614 01:13:39,240 --> 01:13:41,070 We do provide updates as part of our annual 1615 01:13:41,070 --> 01:13:41,690 development 1616 01:13:41,690 --> 01:13:45,030 report or any other opportunity that we 1617 01:13:45,030 --> 01:13:46,860 be able to provide some more details of it. 1618 01:13:46,860 --> 01:13:49,570 But it's well underway. 1619 01:13:49,570 --> 01:13:51,250 And it's an exciting thing that's 1620 01:13:51,250 --> 01:13:53,600 going to be able to provide a lot more 1621 01:13:53,600 --> 01:13:55,040 streamlined information, 1622 01:13:55,040 --> 01:13:56,870 both internally and also providing that 1623 01:13:56,870 --> 01:13:57,870 information 1624 01:13:57,870 --> 01:13:59,950 to applicants as well. 1625 01:13:59,950 --> 01:14:01,340 Thank you, Elsa. 1626 01:14:01,340 --> 01:14:01,650 Thank you. 1627 01:14:01,650 --> 01:14:02,360 That is good. 1628 01:14:02,360 --> 01:14:04,820 Can you just give me a very high-level view 1629 01:14:04,820 --> 01:14:06,560 of what we can have to look forward to 1630 01:14:06,560 --> 01:14:12,060 by Q1 2027 when it's working for staff? 1631 01:14:12,060 --> 01:14:12,900 - Absolutely. 1632 01:14:12,900 --> 01:14:15,780 So it's actually going to allow more information 1633 01:14:15,780 --> 01:14:19,130 to be available both through the citizen portal, 1634 01:14:19,130 --> 01:14:20,410 the business portal that we have. 1635 01:14:20,410 --> 01:14:23,360 So people, applicants can be able to see 1636 01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:25,590 where their application is in throughout that 1637 01:14:25,590 --> 01:14:26,240 process. 1638 01:14:26,240 --> 01:14:30,390 It's going to apply to those pre-applications 1639 01:14:30,390 --> 01:14:32,180 that we were talking about, official plan 1640 01:14:32,180 --> 01:14:32,820 amendments, 1641 01:14:32,820 --> 01:14:35,580 still wanting amendments, removal of holding 1642 01:14:35,580 --> 01:14:35,980 provisions 1643 01:14:35,980 --> 01:14:37,810 will be more streamlined to be able to look 1644 01:14:37,810 --> 01:14:37,970 through 1645 01:14:37,970 --> 01:14:41,010 that process and as well it also, 1646 01:14:41,010 --> 01:14:43,200 there's a lot of back-end work that's taken place 1647 01:14:43,200 --> 01:14:46,320 to ensure that documents are easily being able 1648 01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:50,430 to be shared and cataloged within the city's 1649 01:14:50,430 --> 01:14:52,630 working areas and that was actually another item 1650 01:14:52,630 --> 01:14:55,940 that was highlighted in the report is being able 1651 01:14:55,940 --> 01:14:57,700 to share information between different areas 1652 01:14:57,700 --> 01:14:59,290 and this is gonna make things a lot easier 1653 01:14:59,290 --> 01:15:04,380 to be through our internal processes as well. 1654 01:15:04,380 --> 01:15:05,680 - I'll sorry. 1655 01:15:05,680 --> 01:15:06,510 Thank you. 1656 01:15:06,510 --> 01:15:08,160 I noticed in the jurisdictional review, 1657 01:15:08,160 --> 01:15:09,300 which I found really useful. 1658 01:15:09,300 --> 01:15:10,290 So thank you. 1659 01:15:10,290 --> 01:15:13,740 Under Kingston, it referred at least to their 1660 01:15:13,740 --> 01:15:14,210 processes 1661 01:15:14,210 --> 01:15:16,380 as end-to-end digital workflow. 1662 01:15:16,380 --> 01:15:21,310 Is that where we're gonna end up, Q1, 2027 staff? 1663 01:15:21,310 --> 01:15:23,680 - Absolutely, that is what we're looking for. 1664 01:15:23,680 --> 01:15:27,040 And that's what we're gonna have by that time 1665 01:15:27,040 --> 01:15:27,400 period. 1666 01:15:27,400 --> 01:15:29,730 We've spent a lot of time working on different 1667 01:15:29,730 --> 01:15:30,370 processes 1668 01:15:30,370 --> 01:15:34,030 over the years, our site plan process is 1669 01:15:34,030 --> 01:15:34,590 exceptional 1670 01:15:34,590 --> 01:15:38,650 and we've been able to be tops in Canada 1671 01:15:38,650 --> 01:15:41,640 as far as our processes from that perspective. 1672 01:15:41,640 --> 01:15:43,390 But we've had a lot of work to do 1673 01:15:43,390 --> 01:15:44,670 on our subdivision process 1674 01:15:44,670 --> 01:15:47,530 and this is gonna be very helpful moving forward 1675 01:15:47,530 --> 01:15:49,280 and very beneficial to the city 1676 01:15:49,280 --> 01:15:54,060 and the applicants as well. 1677 01:15:54,060 --> 01:15:55,210 - Councilor. 1678 01:15:55,210 --> 01:15:58,080 - Yeah, just a kitchener said 1679 01:15:58,080 --> 01:16:01,460 that they have a highly structured and sequential 1680 01:16:01,460 --> 01:16:01,860 process 1681 01:16:01,860 --> 01:16:05,290 that reduces downstream surprises and rework. 1682 01:16:05,290 --> 01:16:06,680 So I'll just leave that out there, 1683 01:16:06,680 --> 01:16:09,270 that I hear that request a lot. 1684 01:16:09,270 --> 01:16:11,900 And then the last one for the Kitchener, 1685 01:16:11,900 --> 01:16:14,270 it said a strong customer service mindset 1686 01:16:14,270 --> 01:16:17,100 underpins coordination with staff, 1687 01:16:17,100 --> 01:16:19,440 often providing detailed guidance 1688 01:16:19,440 --> 01:16:21,940 to help applicants correct deficiencies. 1689 01:16:21,940 --> 01:16:24,360 And I just wondered if there's a culture piece 1690 01:16:24,360 --> 01:16:25,940 as far as London is concerned too, 1691 01:16:25,940 --> 01:16:28,570 and if there's anything staff can share that way. 1692 01:16:28,570 --> 01:16:29,390 - Mr. Mathers. 1693 01:16:29,390 --> 01:16:30,280 - Yeah, absolutely. 1694 01:16:30,280 --> 01:16:33,300 And I was always happy to learn 1695 01:16:33,300 --> 01:16:36,580 from other municipalities in and around us. 1696 01:16:36,580 --> 01:16:38,650 It's something I've been really driving forward 1697 01:16:38,650 --> 01:16:40,570 through my team, is that cultural change? 1698 01:16:40,570 --> 01:16:43,460 And I'm hoping from what you heard from Mr. 1699 01:16:43,460 --> 01:16:44,040 Wallace today 1700 01:16:44,040 --> 01:16:45,960 is that you're hearing that that's happening. 1701 01:16:45,960 --> 01:16:50,950 We've made a lot of improvements since that 2023 1702 01:16:50,950 --> 01:16:54,380 and before timeframe that prior to me being in 1703 01:16:54,380 --> 01:16:54,780 the role. 1704 01:16:54,780 --> 01:16:58,140 And I think that's exceptionally important, 1705 01:16:58,140 --> 01:17:00,490 because we're not here just to be a regulator. 1706 01:17:00,490 --> 01:17:03,920 We're here to be a facilitator and to help both 1707 01:17:03,920 --> 01:17:04,480 the applicants 1708 01:17:04,480 --> 01:17:06,880 and anyone else from the city of London 1709 01:17:06,880 --> 01:17:08,600 to be able to get through those processes. 1710 01:17:08,600 --> 01:17:11,430 And that is a mental shift. 1711 01:17:11,430 --> 01:17:13,390 And some folks, it's more difficult. 1712 01:17:13,390 --> 01:17:17,730 But I very much feel that through our great 1713 01:17:17,730 --> 01:17:19,020 directors, 1714 01:17:19,020 --> 01:17:20,970 Heather McNeely and Alan Shaw, that they've 1715 01:17:20,970 --> 01:17:22,810 been really driving that forward with their teams 1716 01:17:22,810 --> 01:17:23,730 as well. 1717 01:17:23,730 --> 01:17:26,180 but it's exceptionally important 1718 01:17:26,180 --> 01:17:29,800 to have that cultural shift as well. 1719 01:17:29,800 --> 01:17:32,460 - Just a quick thanks, knowing that housing 1720 01:17:32,460 --> 01:17:34,670 has been under the spotlight for this entire term 1721 01:17:34,670 --> 01:17:35,350 of council 1722 01:17:35,350 --> 01:17:37,470 with all kinds of pressure and changes and things 1723 01:17:37,470 --> 01:17:37,930 happening. 1724 01:17:37,930 --> 01:17:42,180 So thanks for trying to move London forward. 1725 01:17:42,180 --> 01:17:45,280 - Thank you, I would say that was long-term 1726 01:17:45,280 --> 01:17:45,860 progress. 1727 01:17:45,860 --> 01:17:48,030 Mr. Mathers and his team working diligently on 1728 01:17:48,030 --> 01:17:48,630 this, 1729 01:17:48,630 --> 01:17:50,360 somewhat who's seen the evolution of two terms of 1730 01:17:50,360 --> 01:17:51,010 council. 1731 01:17:51,010 --> 01:17:54,070 And I know that when things aren't going well, 1732 01:17:54,070 --> 01:17:55,690 the industry lets us know it. 1733 01:17:55,690 --> 01:17:57,710 So if they've been quieter, I know you're making 1734 01:17:57,710 --> 01:17:58,310 good progress. 1735 01:17:58,310 --> 01:17:59,870 I'm getting good feedback as well behind the 1736 01:17:59,870 --> 01:18:00,290 scenes. 1737 01:18:00,290 --> 01:18:02,500 So thank you for that as we continue continuous 1738 01:18:02,500 --> 01:18:03,070 improvement 1739 01:18:03,070 --> 01:18:08,310 and looking to others that we could learn off of. 1740 01:18:08,310 --> 01:18:10,840 I have no hands up online. 1741 01:18:10,840 --> 01:18:11,930 I'm having none in chambers. 1742 01:18:11,930 --> 01:18:13,960 This is a motion to receive this report by a show 1743 01:18:13,960 --> 01:18:15,980 of hands. 1744 01:18:15,980 --> 01:18:20,520 - Motion carries. 1745 01:18:20,520 --> 01:18:22,020 - That moves us on to 4.5. 1746 01:18:22,020 --> 01:18:24,470 This is the Climate Emergency Action Plan audit 1747 01:18:24,470 --> 01:18:25,020 by MNP. 1748 01:18:25,020 --> 01:18:27,350 This would be a motion to receive. 1749 01:18:27,350 --> 01:18:29,800 I have a mover and encounter Cudi, a seconder in 1750 01:18:29,800 --> 01:18:30,700 myself, 1751 01:18:30,700 --> 01:18:33,130 moving at the same time. Mr. Wallace's delegation 1752 01:18:33,130 --> 01:18:35,910 request with the same mover 1753 01:18:35,910 --> 01:18:38,630 and seconder. Mr. Racco if you want to queue it 1754 01:18:38,630 --> 01:18:39,620 up and then once again I'll go 1755 01:18:39,620 --> 01:18:42,060 to Mr. Wallace and then we'll come back down for 1756 01:18:42,060 --> 01:18:44,800 follow-up. Thank you 1757 01:18:44,800 --> 01:18:47,200 through you Madam Chair. So before you is the 1758 01:18:47,200 --> 01:18:49,120 report for the climate emergency 1759 01:18:49,120 --> 01:18:52,950 action plan. A couple things to just highlight on 1760 01:18:52,950 --> 01:18:54,110 this and it's actually 1761 01:18:54,110 --> 01:18:56,530 similar to some of the commentary I provided on 1762 01:18:56,530 --> 01:18:58,850 the previous item. It is 1763 01:18:58,850 --> 01:19:03,060 important and I think contextually the committee 1764 01:19:03,060 --> 01:19:05,790 and others will appreciate this is that much 1765 01:19:05,790 --> 01:19:09,620 has changed since the CEAP, the plan itself, was 1766 01:19:09,620 --> 01:19:12,590 originally established. And I think that 1767 01:19:12,590 --> 01:19:16,780 that has to be an underlying tone and context 1768 01:19:16,780 --> 01:19:20,530 throughout this report. Not only has the 1769 01:19:20,530 --> 01:19:20,890 operating 1770 01:19:20,890 --> 01:19:22,560 environment has changed, but again, the 1771 01:19:22,560 --> 01:19:24,420 regulatory environment is also just generally 1772 01:19:24,420 --> 01:19:25,080 expectations 1773 01:19:25,080 --> 01:19:28,510 from the public have changed from the time that 1774 01:19:28,510 --> 01:19:31,340 the plan was put together to where we 1775 01:19:31,340 --> 01:19:32,340 are now. 1776 01:19:32,340 --> 01:19:35,720 I think that it's also an interesting timing and 1777 01:19:35,720 --> 01:19:38,300 opportunity and it was very good to have 1778 01:19:38,300 --> 01:19:40,160 the collaborative conversation with civic 1779 01:19:40,160 --> 01:19:42,120 administration as we were going through this 1780 01:19:42,120 --> 01:19:46,800 audit to recognize how ambitious the plan was as 1781 01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:50,740 it was formed as well as the opportunity 1782 01:19:50,740 --> 01:19:54,240 this is in front of the city given the fact that 1783 01:19:54,240 --> 01:19:56,140 we're going to be moving into a new cycle. 1784 01:19:56,140 --> 01:19:59,510 There will be a new multi-year plan developed 1785 01:19:59,510 --> 01:20:02,500 from a budget and strategic perspective and 1786 01:20:02,500 --> 01:20:06,350 that how there can be lessons learned from the 1787 01:20:06,350 --> 01:20:09,890 efficacy of the current client emergency 1788 01:20:09,890 --> 01:20:11,810 action plan that can be baked into its next 1789 01:20:11,810 --> 01:20:14,350 iteration, which we've tried to capture in 1790 01:20:14,350 --> 01:20:16,570 and I realize there are several recommendations 1791 01:20:16,570 --> 01:20:18,570 and we can go through them as the committee 1792 01:20:18,570 --> 01:20:21,070 would look towards. But it really is an opportune 1793 01:20:21,070 --> 01:20:23,100 time to bake these pieces in and I think if you 1794 01:20:23,100 --> 01:20:26,040 look at civic administration's responses, they 1795 01:20:26,040 --> 01:20:28,410 are cognizant of that opportunity that sits 1796 01:20:28,410 --> 01:20:28,990 before us 1797 01:20:28,990 --> 01:20:30,820 for the next iteration given the timing that's 1798 01:20:30,820 --> 01:20:34,600 going to be happening next year. Thank you. 1799 01:20:34,600 --> 01:20:37,490 Thank you for technology. I'll go to the upper 1800 01:20:37,490 --> 01:20:39,860 lower mic as well. Mr. Wallace, the floor is 1801 01:20:39,860 --> 01:20:40,110 yours. 1802 01:20:40,110 --> 01:20:42,890 Thank you, Madam Chair and thank you again, 1803 01:20:42,890 --> 01:20:45,840 committee for approving my delegation. First, 1804 01:20:47,840 --> 01:20:52,900 I want to actually start why I think Council 1805 01:20:52,900 --> 01:20:53,230 should 1806 01:20:53,230 --> 01:20:55,720 congratulate yourselves and staff on the work 1807 01:20:55,720 --> 01:20:58,450 that's been done that's highlighted in this 1808 01:20:58,450 --> 01:20:58,840 report. 1809 01:20:58,840 --> 01:21:01,580 As I think, I can remember standing, 1810 01:21:01,580 --> 01:21:03,260 I think we were in committee room five 1811 01:21:03,260 --> 01:21:05,700 and we were giving presentations. 1812 01:21:05,700 --> 01:21:08,450 And I think I was there representing the only 1813 01:21:08,450 --> 01:21:08,720 business 1814 01:21:08,720 --> 01:21:12,780 community of a portion of the business community 1815 01:21:12,780 --> 01:21:15,440 and making a presentation there on the CV. 1816 01:21:15,440 --> 01:21:19,250 and we were supportive of most of the components 1817 01:21:19,250 --> 01:21:20,410 of the CEAP. 1818 01:21:20,410 --> 01:21:26,690 And I think staff and the city in terms of, 1819 01:21:26,690 --> 01:21:29,200 if you look at the five or six bullet points 1820 01:21:29,200 --> 01:21:31,430 that are on the first number of pages, 1821 01:21:31,430 --> 01:21:33,580 whether it's with planning, building retrofits, 1822 01:21:33,580 --> 01:21:36,450 community business engagement and infrastructure, 1823 01:21:36,450 --> 01:21:38,760 the addition of green carts. 1824 01:21:38,760 --> 01:21:40,980 You've done a tremendous job in that short period 1825 01:21:40,980 --> 01:21:41,990 of time 1826 01:21:41,990 --> 01:21:46,680 on tackling some of the objectives 1827 01:21:46,680 --> 01:21:48,270 that you put out in that report. 1828 01:21:48,270 --> 01:21:51,290 So I thought it was, when I saw this, 1829 01:21:51,290 --> 01:21:52,480 I thought it was an opportunity to come 1830 01:21:52,480 --> 01:21:55,260 and congratulate you on this. 1831 01:21:55,260 --> 01:22:00,530 I'm not crazy about how things are categorized, 1832 01:22:00,530 --> 01:22:04,300 high, medium and low, and based on, 1833 01:22:04,300 --> 01:22:07,660 and the definition of that is significant control 1834 01:22:07,660 --> 01:22:07,870 weakness, 1835 01:22:07,870 --> 01:22:10,330 it might be a standard way of doing a program 1836 01:22:10,330 --> 01:22:10,840 audit 1837 01:22:10,840 --> 01:22:14,060 in terms of how it's defined. 1838 01:22:14,060 --> 01:22:17,010 But as mentioned by the consultants, 1839 01:22:17,010 --> 01:22:19,550 like the environment has changed quite a bit, 1840 01:22:19,550 --> 01:22:21,240 not a physical environment, 1841 01:22:21,240 --> 01:22:22,860 the environment in which you are working in, 1842 01:22:22,860 --> 01:22:25,070 in terms of these issues. 1843 01:22:25,070 --> 01:22:28,480 And there are some things that, you know, 1844 01:22:28,480 --> 01:22:29,660 is it a high weakness? 1845 01:22:29,660 --> 01:22:33,280 If the, it's, I think they call it a high 1846 01:22:33,280 --> 01:22:34,590 weakness of control. 1847 01:22:34,590 --> 01:22:38,530 But if it's provincial legislation, you have no 1848 01:22:38,530 --> 01:22:39,700 control. 1849 01:22:39,700 --> 01:22:41,120 So is that a weakness? 1850 01:22:41,120 --> 01:22:43,480 I'm not sure if that's a weakness of the city. 1851 01:22:43,480 --> 01:22:49,030 But so I read through the summary of observations 1852 01:22:49,030 --> 01:22:52,800 and I read the summary of the staff responses 1853 01:22:52,800 --> 01:22:55,540 and I thought they were excellent and on the 1854 01:22:55,540 --> 01:22:56,460 right track. 1855 01:22:56,460 --> 01:22:58,450 So we just wanted to be, we are on the record, 1856 01:22:58,450 --> 01:23:02,860 the beginning, we're on the record for the review 1857 01:23:02,860 --> 01:23:07,430 that we think the program has had a positive 1858 01:23:07,430 --> 01:23:07,830 impact 1859 01:23:09,160 --> 01:23:12,520 on London and from our perspective on the 1860 01:23:12,520 --> 01:23:13,770 development process. 1861 01:23:13,770 --> 01:23:17,770 And I think maybe it is time to have a review 1862 01:23:17,770 --> 01:23:20,570 of where we're going and what needs to be changed 1863 01:23:20,570 --> 01:23:20,840 in that. 1864 01:23:20,840 --> 01:23:23,050 And you're not gonna do that before the next 1865 01:23:23,050 --> 01:23:24,170 election in October. 1866 01:23:24,170 --> 01:23:26,270 So we look forward to working with you as an 1867 01:23:26,270 --> 01:23:26,790 industry 1868 01:23:26,790 --> 01:23:31,460 on the next version of this plan in the coming 1869 01:23:31,460 --> 01:23:31,760 years. 1870 01:23:31,760 --> 01:23:34,930 Thank you. 1871 01:23:34,930 --> 01:23:36,870 - Thank you. 1872 01:23:36,870 --> 01:23:38,790 Looking to members of the committee 1873 01:23:38,790 --> 01:23:43,260 or those online for questions or comments. 1874 01:23:43,260 --> 01:23:46,640 I'll start with Councillor Stevenson. 1875 01:23:46,640 --> 01:23:49,710 - Thank you, and thank you for the audit report. 1876 01:23:49,710 --> 01:23:52,000 There's a lot in here again. 1877 01:23:52,000 --> 01:23:58,480 I think what I wanted to focus on was, 1878 01:23:58,480 --> 01:24:00,140 well, in the summary of observations, 1879 01:24:00,140 --> 01:24:03,490 it talks about the seep being descriptive and not 1880 01:24:03,490 --> 01:24:03,780 directive. 1881 01:24:03,780 --> 01:24:10,320 And I think that's a good feedback in terms of, 1882 01:24:10,320 --> 01:24:13,940 'cause it says it does not shape priority 1883 01:24:13,940 --> 01:24:14,490 sequencing 1884 01:24:14,490 --> 01:24:16,080 or resource allocation. 1885 01:24:16,080 --> 01:24:18,290 So it really leaves it as this sort of nebulous 1886 01:24:18,290 --> 01:24:18,620 thing 1887 01:24:18,620 --> 01:24:20,470 that we refer to all the time. 1888 01:24:20,470 --> 01:24:23,130 It also talks about activity-based indicators 1889 01:24:23,130 --> 01:24:26,830 overstating progress that on track 1890 01:24:26,830 --> 01:24:31,030 and complete designations frequently reflect 1891 01:24:31,030 --> 01:24:34,390 administrative milestones, not measurable 1892 01:24:34,390 --> 01:24:34,500 outcomes. 1893 01:24:34,500 --> 01:24:36,560 And that's been one of the reasons why 1894 01:24:36,560 --> 01:24:39,060 I've been not receiving the strategic plan 1895 01:24:39,060 --> 01:24:41,160 'cause we do that there as well. 1896 01:24:41,160 --> 01:24:45,140 Number 12, it talks about external legislative 1897 01:24:45,140 --> 01:24:45,580 changes 1898 01:24:45,580 --> 01:24:49,350 have eliminated key regulatory delivery pathways. 1899 01:24:49,350 --> 01:24:52,810 Bill 17, Bill 98, and the federal carbon price 1900 01:24:52,810 --> 01:24:53,350 removal 1901 01:24:53,350 --> 01:24:57,650 require a fundamental rethink of several seep 1902 01:24:57,650 --> 01:24:58,300 actions. 1903 01:24:58,300 --> 01:25:02,330 And, you know, I found it interesting that 1904 01:25:02,330 --> 01:25:03,120 Calgary 1905 01:25:03,120 --> 01:25:06,640 just repealed their climate emergency on May 27th 1906 01:25:06,640 --> 01:25:10,220 of this year, passed in a vote of 12 to three. 1907 01:25:10,220 --> 01:25:11,920 Now, they said they're still super committed 1908 01:25:11,920 --> 01:25:13,980 to all kinds of doing great things for the 1909 01:25:13,980 --> 01:25:14,500 environment, 1910 01:25:14,500 --> 01:25:18,560 they were repealing the emergency. 1911 01:25:18,560 --> 01:25:20,230 And so I wonder when it says require a 1912 01:25:20,230 --> 01:25:21,120 fundamental rethink 1913 01:25:21,120 --> 01:25:23,860 of several SEAP actions, it does give council the 1914 01:25:23,860 --> 01:25:24,400 opportunity 1915 01:25:24,400 --> 01:25:31,780 to rethink the principles behind it as well. 1916 01:25:31,780 --> 01:25:35,150 Many actions-- here, there's a couple of places 1917 01:25:35,150 --> 01:25:35,860 here-- 1918 01:25:35,860 --> 01:25:38,230 said no systemic process exists to confirm 1919 01:25:38,230 --> 01:25:42,200 that the indicators chosen for each SEAP are 1920 01:25:42,200 --> 01:25:43,480 valid proxies 1921 01:25:43,480 --> 01:25:46,660 for the outcome the action is intended to achieve 1922 01:25:46,660 --> 01:25:46,760 . 1923 01:25:46,660 --> 01:25:49,360 In several cases, indicators measure inputs 1924 01:25:49,360 --> 01:25:52,110 or process completion rather than the change in 1925 01:25:52,110 --> 01:25:52,580 behavior, 1926 01:25:52,580 --> 01:25:55,010 infrastructural or emissions that the action was 1927 01:25:55,010 --> 01:25:55,410 designed 1928 01:25:55,410 --> 01:25:56,400 to drive. 1929 01:25:56,400 --> 01:25:59,830 And again, this is something I see the way 1930 01:25:59,830 --> 01:26:01,620 that we do our reporting. 1931 01:26:01,620 --> 01:26:05,310 Are we just saying we're 84% complete, we're 97% 1932 01:26:05,310 --> 01:26:05,630 complete, 1933 01:26:05,630 --> 01:26:07,620 we have 187 actions. 1934 01:26:07,620 --> 01:26:11,080 And we did 175, but we might have missed the ones 1935 01:26:11,080 --> 01:26:11,240 that 1936 01:26:11,240 --> 01:26:14,610 actually moved the needle, right? 1937 01:26:14,610 --> 01:26:16,660 This means that even consistently tracked 1938 01:26:16,660 --> 01:26:17,250 indicators 1939 01:26:17,250 --> 01:26:19,730 may not be measuring what SEAP is actually 1940 01:26:19,730 --> 01:26:21,570 trying to accomplish. 1941 01:26:21,570 --> 01:26:24,240 The problem is not only that progress is over 1942 01:26:24,240 --> 01:26:24,730 stated, 1943 01:26:24,730 --> 01:26:26,950 but that the measurement framework may not be 1944 01:26:26,950 --> 01:26:27,490 capable 1945 01:26:27,490 --> 01:26:30,300 of detecting whether real world outcomes 1946 01:26:30,300 --> 01:26:32,360 are being achieved at all. 1947 01:26:32,360 --> 01:26:34,510 I know a lot of time and effort and energy goes 1948 01:26:34,510 --> 01:26:35,000 into all 1949 01:26:35,000 --> 01:26:36,990 the tracking and monitoring and that kind of 1950 01:26:36,990 --> 01:26:37,320 thing. 1951 01:26:37,320 --> 01:26:41,530 And I think these are some things that we get to 1952 01:26:41,530 --> 01:26:41,920 really 1953 01:26:41,920 --> 01:26:44,660 listened to, especially at a time when, again, 1954 01:26:44,660 --> 01:26:45,290 taxpayers 1955 01:26:45,290 --> 01:26:47,980 are concerned about their finances. 1956 01:26:47,980 --> 01:26:50,200 How much are we spending if we're not 1957 01:26:50,200 --> 01:26:54,900 getting the results that are desired for the 1958 01:26:54,900 --> 01:26:56,680 environment? 1959 01:26:56,680 --> 01:26:59,150 Says, tying the expected results more explicitly 1960 01:26:59,150 --> 01:27:04,010 to actions is a recommendation of staff labeling 1961 01:27:04,010 --> 01:27:06,830 and distinguishing between activity metrics and 1962 01:27:06,830 --> 01:27:07,180 outcome 1963 01:27:07,180 --> 01:27:08,080 metrics. 1964 01:27:08,080 --> 01:27:11,820 Huge, huge if we're committed to actually making 1965 01:27:11,820 --> 01:27:12,090 things 1966 01:27:12,090 --> 01:27:17,520 better in our city and in this world. 1967 01:27:17,520 --> 01:27:19,710 So I just wanted to highlight a couple of things 1968 01:27:19,710 --> 01:27:21,440 that were in this report. 1969 01:27:21,440 --> 01:27:27,970 And just put out there that this is a lot of work 1970 01:27:27,970 --> 01:27:28,070 . 1971 01:27:27,970 --> 01:27:30,160 And it may be as time was done by a previous 1972 01:27:30,160 --> 01:27:31,040 council. 1973 01:27:31,040 --> 01:27:35,640 I think a rethink of it in general would be good. 1974 01:27:35,640 --> 01:27:37,790 Again, it just continually talks about reflecting 1975 01:27:37,790 --> 01:27:40,340 on process activity rather than outcomes. 1976 01:27:40,340 --> 01:27:42,800 It says the absence of 20, 30 baselines 1977 01:27:42,800 --> 01:27:46,180 and quantitative targets for most expected 1978 01:27:46,180 --> 01:27:46,620 results 1979 01:27:46,620 --> 01:27:49,990 makes it difficult to contextualize reported 1980 01:27:49,990 --> 01:27:50,140 progress. 1981 01:27:50,140 --> 01:27:55,680 I think this is really helpful for this 1982 01:27:55,680 --> 01:27:59,090 or the next council to really look 1983 01:27:59,090 --> 01:28:03,760 at the efficiency of what it is that we're doing. 1984 01:28:03,760 --> 01:28:05,980 The last thing I'll just say, it's on page 30. 1985 01:28:05,980 --> 01:28:09,350 It talks about bill 17 and bill 98 prohibiting 1986 01:28:09,350 --> 01:28:09,860 municipalities 1987 01:28:09,860 --> 01:28:13,320 from imposing local green building standards 1988 01:28:13,320 --> 01:28:15,730 and that the federal carbon price removal in 1989 01:28:15,730 --> 01:28:16,740 April 2025 1990 01:28:16,740 --> 01:28:20,120 eliminates a key financial incentive underpin 1991 01:28:20,120 --> 01:28:20,800 underpinning 1992 01:28:20,800 --> 01:28:23,420 building retrofit and EV adoption actions. 1993 01:28:23,420 --> 01:28:25,560 If I can just ask through you to staff, 1994 01:28:25,560 --> 01:28:28,870 if they have any comments around that, 1995 01:28:28,870 --> 01:28:30,930 it says it necessitates a reassessment. 1996 01:28:30,930 --> 01:28:33,190 So I'd love to hear from staff. 1997 01:28:33,190 --> 01:28:40,880 - Thank you, staff. 1998 01:28:40,880 --> 01:28:42,030 - Through the chair, absolutely. 1999 01:28:42,030 --> 01:28:44,000 So there has been, as mentioned, 2000 01:28:44,000 --> 01:28:46,020 like very significant changes from a regulatory 2001 01:28:46,020 --> 01:28:46,720 perspective. 2002 01:28:46,720 --> 01:28:51,730 So the ability to actually have what would be 2003 01:28:51,730 --> 01:28:51,830 originally 2004 01:28:53,530 --> 01:28:56,050 term as those building standards has been removed 2005 01:28:56,050 --> 01:28:56,960 through legislation. 2006 01:28:56,960 --> 01:28:59,880 And there's been a couple recent bills 2007 01:28:59,880 --> 01:29:00,790 that have dealt with that. 2008 01:29:00,790 --> 01:29:04,710 So we actually will be bringing to the next 2009 01:29:04,710 --> 01:29:05,340 committee 2010 01:29:05,340 --> 01:29:08,820 of planning and environment committee a report 2011 01:29:08,820 --> 01:29:12,210 that speaks to looking at green development 2012 01:29:12,210 --> 01:29:13,050 guidelines. 2013 01:29:13,050 --> 01:29:14,760 But those would be, I have to, 2014 01:29:14,760 --> 01:29:18,140 those are all voluntary and would provide an 2015 01:29:18,140 --> 01:29:18,240 opportunity 2016 01:29:18,150 --> 01:29:19,950 to be able to celebrate some of those 2017 01:29:19,950 --> 01:29:21,940 really great developments that are moving forward 2018 01:29:21,940 --> 01:29:24,740 and try to provide a little bit more awareness 2019 01:29:24,740 --> 01:29:28,330 of those developments, but from the perspective 2020 01:29:28,330 --> 01:29:31,080 of actually having a more like a rigid standards 2021 01:29:31,080 --> 01:29:31,600 approach, 2022 01:29:31,600 --> 01:29:33,970 that's not an option that's available to us 2023 01:29:33,970 --> 01:29:35,830 anymore. 2024 01:29:35,830 --> 01:29:37,400 - Councilor, you have 10 seconds. 2025 01:29:37,400 --> 01:29:40,510 - Thank you, it was about the reshaping 2026 01:29:40,510 --> 01:29:42,710 what we can realistically be required 2027 01:29:42,710 --> 01:29:44,680 of development and reassessments. 2028 01:29:44,680 --> 01:29:47,290 So just if, is there anything else to share there 2029 01:29:47,290 --> 01:29:47,390 ? 2030 01:29:47,330 --> 01:29:50,140 They may not be. 2031 01:29:50,140 --> 01:29:52,260 - Seeing as some nose, but Mr. May, there's 2032 01:29:52,260 --> 01:29:53,240 officially? 2033 01:29:53,240 --> 01:29:54,260 - Yep, through the chair. 2034 01:29:54,260 --> 01:29:56,570 So there isn't an opportunity for us to do that. 2035 01:29:56,570 --> 01:30:01,140 So the only way that we can provide something 2036 01:30:01,140 --> 01:30:03,960 that's similar to that would be through like a 2037 01:30:03,960 --> 01:30:04,570 guideline, 2038 01:30:04,570 --> 01:30:10,250 but it would be voluntary. 2039 01:30:10,250 --> 01:30:11,070 - I have a comment to make, 2040 01:30:11,070 --> 01:30:12,280 but I'll go to others first. 2041 01:30:12,280 --> 01:30:15,060 Councillor Trissa, go ahead. 2042 01:30:15,060 --> 01:30:17,530 - Yes, thank you. 2043 01:30:17,530 --> 01:30:20,760 My first question is directed to the consultant. 2044 01:30:20,760 --> 01:30:24,750 How is it determined who you interview in these 2045 01:30:24,750 --> 01:30:27,960 exercises? 2046 01:30:27,960 --> 01:30:30,090 - For the climate change one that's before us, Mr 2047 01:30:30,090 --> 01:30:30,720 . Repham? 2048 01:30:30,720 --> 01:30:34,350 - Yeah, through you, Madam Chair, 2049 01:30:34,350 --> 01:30:35,760 thank you for the question. 2050 01:30:35,760 --> 01:30:38,380 So as we go through, so stepping back, 2051 01:30:38,380 --> 01:30:41,710 we work with, we work to develop the broader 2052 01:30:41,710 --> 01:30:41,810 items 2053 01:30:41,790 --> 01:30:46,240 that we look to touch on that's included 2054 01:30:46,240 --> 01:30:48,560 within the internal audit plan. 2055 01:30:48,560 --> 01:30:50,510 Then we get through the scoping exercise, 2056 01:30:50,510 --> 01:30:54,720 which involves us taking a look at the risks 2057 01:30:54,720 --> 01:30:55,360 associated 2058 01:30:55,360 --> 01:30:58,090 with the topic and what we want to focus in on 2059 01:30:58,090 --> 01:31:00,830 in order to be both cognizant of the time 2060 01:31:00,830 --> 01:31:01,350 available, 2061 01:31:01,350 --> 01:31:03,410 as well as the outcomes that we're looking to go 2062 01:31:03,410 --> 01:31:03,690 through 2063 01:31:03,690 --> 01:31:08,310 and provide good feedback to and recommendations 2064 01:31:08,310 --> 01:31:11,370 to civic administration as well as to committee 2065 01:31:11,370 --> 01:31:12,000 and council 2066 01:31:12,000 --> 01:31:16,530 on how the city is either what risks we're 2067 01:31:16,530 --> 01:31:17,020 exposed to 2068 01:31:17,020 --> 01:31:18,500 and how we're managing them. 2069 01:31:18,500 --> 01:31:21,330 And then what flows through to that is we work 2070 01:31:21,330 --> 01:31:24,140 with civic administration to understand and 2071 01:31:24,140 --> 01:31:24,860 appreciate 2072 01:31:24,860 --> 01:31:29,630 who we can touch base with, understand who has 2073 01:31:29,630 --> 01:31:29,820 availability 2074 01:31:29,820 --> 01:31:32,510 in order to gather information. 2075 01:31:32,510 --> 01:31:35,330 So it's through some conversation that we have 2076 01:31:35,330 --> 01:31:38,720 with civic administration once the scope is 2077 01:31:38,720 --> 01:31:40,110 figured out, 2078 01:31:40,110 --> 01:31:43,890 as well as, quite frankly, upon our own judgment 2079 01:31:43,890 --> 01:31:46,570 of who we want to touch base with and go forward. 2080 01:31:46,570 --> 01:31:48,480 Going back to the previous item, 2081 01:31:48,480 --> 01:31:52,440 we had looked to expand our understanding 2082 01:31:52,440 --> 01:31:53,870 through a jurisdictional scan, 2083 01:31:53,870 --> 01:31:56,640 and we sought out like-minded organizations 2084 01:31:56,640 --> 01:31:57,890 in order to do so. 2085 01:31:57,890 --> 01:31:59,680 So it's through collaboration, 2086 01:31:59,680 --> 01:32:01,630 as well as through our own judgment. 2087 01:32:01,630 --> 01:32:04,280 - Okay, well, if it's based through the chair, 2088 01:32:04,280 --> 01:32:06,300 if it's based on collaboration, 2089 01:32:06,300 --> 01:32:08,280 why we're sitting counselors, 2090 01:32:08,280 --> 01:32:12,520 why were we not brought into this, 2091 01:32:12,520 --> 01:32:14,980 not to direct it, but given the chance to be 2092 01:32:14,980 --> 01:32:15,740 interviewed, 2093 01:32:15,740 --> 01:32:18,870 I really would have appreciated being interviewed 2094 01:32:18,870 --> 01:32:18,970 , 2095 01:32:18,870 --> 01:32:20,730 and I think I would have had some insights 2096 01:32:20,730 --> 01:32:22,070 that would have helped your study, 2097 01:32:22,070 --> 01:32:23,570 and I'd like to know why counselors 2098 01:32:23,570 --> 01:32:27,550 were not given the opportunity to be interviewed. 2099 01:32:27,550 --> 01:32:29,170 - Mr. Racco. 2100 01:32:29,170 --> 01:32:31,400 - Through you, Madam Chair, I think that is a 2101 01:32:31,400 --> 01:32:32,210 fair comment, 2102 01:32:32,210 --> 01:32:34,380 and we can take that back in order to consider 2103 01:32:34,380 --> 01:32:36,780 for our processes going forward. 2104 01:32:36,780 --> 01:32:39,530 There was not, it was not a conscious choice, I 2105 01:32:39,530 --> 01:32:39,730 would say, 2106 01:32:39,730 --> 01:32:43,390 to not include counselors or members of the 2107 01:32:43,390 --> 01:32:44,500 committee, 2108 01:32:44,500 --> 01:32:46,650 but it was just not considered considering 2109 01:32:46,650 --> 01:32:47,680 for this particular audit. 2110 01:32:47,680 --> 01:32:51,050 So I will take the feedback and we can look 2111 01:32:51,050 --> 01:32:51,150 forward 2112 01:32:51,140 --> 01:32:54,010 to that for future scopes in order to understand 2113 01:32:54,010 --> 01:32:55,720 and factor that in. 2114 01:32:55,720 --> 01:32:56,670 - Councilor. 2115 01:32:56,670 --> 01:32:58,160 - Yeah, and that doesn't really help me. 2116 01:32:58,160 --> 01:33:01,480 'Cause quite frankly, I think a fundamental flaw 2117 01:33:01,480 --> 01:33:03,830 of this entire exercise, 2118 01:33:03,830 --> 01:33:06,680 to mention the way we've implemented this 2119 01:33:06,680 --> 01:33:09,910 directive of the last council is what was the 2120 01:33:09,910 --> 01:33:13,970 understanding of the new counselors in 2022, 2121 01:33:13,970 --> 01:33:17,320 especially when you consider eight of us were new 2122 01:33:17,320 --> 01:33:17,420 , 2123 01:33:17,320 --> 01:33:21,920 about what we were expected to do here, and more 2124 01:33:21,920 --> 01:33:27,060 specifically what legislative authority we have. 2125 01:33:27,060 --> 01:33:30,630 Much has just been said about the regulatory 2126 01:33:30,630 --> 01:33:33,350 environment changing, but we have to go back 2127 01:33:33,350 --> 01:33:37,590 to the fundamental jurisdictional point in the 2128 01:33:37,590 --> 01:33:40,120 municipal act that says we have the right to make 2129 01:33:40,120 --> 01:33:44,180 bylaws about "economic, social, and environmental 2130 01:33:44,180 --> 01:33:48,180 well-being of the municipality." And I do not 2131 01:33:48,180 --> 01:33:51,860 really remember getting a good orientation as a 2132 01:33:51,860 --> 01:33:55,870 counselor on this question. Now, I happen to know 2133 01:33:55,870 --> 01:33:57,810 a little bit about this because I've read the 2134 01:33:57,810 --> 01:34:00,030 case law over the years, but I don't think that 2135 01:34:00,030 --> 01:34:00,210 this 2136 01:34:00,210 --> 01:34:04,740 counsel was put in a position where we could have 2137 01:34:04,740 --> 01:34:07,060 succeeded because we never really understood 2138 01:34:07,450 --> 01:34:11,350 what was in our jurisdiction to do? Could you 2139 01:34:11,350 --> 01:34:15,350 comment on that? 2140 01:34:15,350 --> 01:34:18,830 I'm going to caution here that Mr. Racco is not 2141 01:34:18,830 --> 01:34:20,660 privileged and part of the council on boarding 2142 01:34:20,660 --> 01:34:24,720 and his job is into the health of legislative 2143 01:34:24,720 --> 01:34:27,300 responsibilities outside of the Miss Flax, 2144 01:34:27,300 --> 01:34:30,300 which we're already advised on. Councilor, if you 2145 01:34:30,300 --> 01:34:31,340 just keep your questions 2146 01:34:31,340 --> 01:34:33,010 tight to the scope, I'm not going to allow the 2147 01:34:33,010 --> 01:34:35,980 last one. Well, the scope is why we haven't made 2148 01:34:35,980 --> 01:34:38,820 as much progress on the environmental file as 2149 01:34:38,820 --> 01:34:41,770 many of us had hoped. And I think that's a broad 2150 01:34:41,770 --> 01:34:42,140 scope. 2151 01:34:42,740 --> 01:34:46,430 And I think this is a major, I think it's a major 2152 01:34:46,430 --> 01:34:46,830 issue, 2153 01:34:46,830 --> 01:34:50,140 that you can't have a city council, 2154 01:34:50,140 --> 01:34:52,970 not be part of the ongoing process. 2155 01:34:52,970 --> 01:34:56,810 And yes, that does begin with a much better 2156 01:34:56,810 --> 01:34:58,160 onboarding. 2157 01:34:58,160 --> 01:35:01,300 The other thing I'd wanna ask is, 2158 01:35:01,300 --> 01:35:03,030 one of the points that you make, 2159 01:35:03,030 --> 01:35:05,210 and I forget which recommendation it was, 2160 01:35:05,210 --> 01:35:08,120 it's the responsibility for implementing this 2161 01:35:08,120 --> 01:35:09,950 seems to be scattered. 2162 01:35:09,950 --> 01:35:12,580 It seems to be scattered, and this is a function 2163 01:35:12,580 --> 01:35:17,370 of an often stated criticism of our civic 2164 01:35:17,370 --> 01:35:17,770 administration, 2165 01:35:17,770 --> 01:35:19,980 not in terms of the people in the civic 2166 01:35:19,980 --> 01:35:20,950 administration, 2167 01:35:20,950 --> 01:35:23,610 but the structure of our civic administration. 2168 01:35:23,610 --> 01:35:26,270 And that's that we have departments, 2169 01:35:26,270 --> 01:35:28,740 divisions, cubicles, silos. 2170 01:35:28,740 --> 01:35:33,330 And it's never really clear who's talking to who. 2171 01:35:33,330 --> 01:35:37,960 When environmental issues put across 2172 01:35:37,960 --> 01:35:41,960 the different cubicles, silos, departments, and 2173 01:35:41,960 --> 01:35:42,680 divisions. 2174 01:35:42,680 --> 01:35:44,800 And one of the things I really liked about the 2175 01:35:44,800 --> 01:35:45,330 discussion 2176 01:35:45,330 --> 01:35:49,380 that we just had about the rat infestation 2177 01:35:49,380 --> 01:35:51,720 is we started to do that. 2178 01:35:51,720 --> 01:35:55,160 So I guess my question is, how is civic 2179 01:35:55,160 --> 01:35:56,090 administration 2180 01:35:56,090 --> 01:36:00,440 and ultimately this council or the next council 2181 01:36:00,440 --> 01:36:06,470 going to take the learning from your report here? 2182 01:36:06,470 --> 01:36:08,370 And despite my criticisms here, 2183 01:36:08,370 --> 01:36:10,590 there's quite a bit of very good learning here. 2184 01:36:10,590 --> 01:36:12,730 How are we going to implement this 2185 01:36:12,730 --> 01:36:14,900 so we could be making better environmental 2186 01:36:14,900 --> 01:36:15,430 decisions 2187 01:36:15,430 --> 01:36:18,800 given the broad general nature 2188 01:36:18,800 --> 01:36:22,600 of our jurisdiction over environmental matters. 2189 01:36:22,600 --> 01:36:25,780 - Thank you, I'm going to share for this one. 2190 01:36:25,780 --> 01:36:26,580 - Thank you, Madam Chair. 2191 01:36:26,580 --> 01:36:28,420 If you'll indulge me in a little bit of history 2192 01:36:28,420 --> 01:36:30,210 as to how this plan is organized, 2193 01:36:30,210 --> 01:36:32,280 the team that supports it in climate change in my 2194 01:36:32,280 --> 01:36:32,600 area 2195 01:36:32,600 --> 01:36:33,440 is quite small, 2196 01:36:33,440 --> 01:36:35,080 but is meant to be a bit of a boutique service 2197 01:36:35,080 --> 01:36:37,830 to provide consulting support almost internally 2198 01:36:37,830 --> 01:36:39,660 to actions that are owned by directors 2199 01:36:39,660 --> 01:36:41,220 throughout the organization. 2200 01:36:41,220 --> 01:36:43,810 Those actions are specifically assigned 2201 01:36:43,810 --> 01:36:45,500 to various directors, and the reason it's 2202 01:36:45,500 --> 01:36:46,440 decentralized 2203 01:36:46,440 --> 01:36:49,280 is because they're very different in each area. 2204 01:36:49,280 --> 01:36:50,710 There's work to be done in planning, 2205 01:36:50,710 --> 01:36:53,540 in fleet, in facilities, in finance, 2206 01:36:53,540 --> 01:36:55,260 lesser perhaps in perhaps neighborhood 2207 01:36:55,260 --> 01:36:57,310 and community-wide services, but not entirely 2208 01:36:57,310 --> 01:36:57,810 none. 2209 01:36:57,810 --> 01:36:59,650 So each director is accountable 2210 01:36:59,650 --> 01:37:02,370 for those particular actions assigned to them, 2211 01:37:02,370 --> 01:37:04,520 and then there is a consolidation and reporting 2212 01:37:04,520 --> 01:37:06,040 that happens centralized through environment 2213 01:37:06,040 --> 01:37:07,630 and infrastructure. 2214 01:37:07,630 --> 01:37:09,220 I suspect that we will always be looking 2215 01:37:09,220 --> 01:37:10,900 at some sort of decentralized model 2216 01:37:10,900 --> 01:37:12,690 unless there was a direction from council 2217 01:37:12,690 --> 01:37:15,200 future multi-year budget to build a very large 2218 01:37:15,200 --> 01:37:17,400 centralized team with expertise and everything 2219 01:37:17,400 --> 01:37:20,180 from fleet to green building standards. We will 2220 01:37:20,180 --> 01:37:22,420 however be looking at how we're reporting out 2221 01:37:22,420 --> 01:37:24,820 and how we are providing the opportunity to 2222 01:37:24,820 --> 01:37:27,520 connect with the owners of each action as part of 2223 01:37:27,520 --> 01:37:27,760 a new 2224 01:37:27,760 --> 01:37:33,130 iteration of the plan. So my next question I 2225 01:37:33,130 --> 01:37:36,480 guess to make sure is how can counselors better 2226 01:37:36,480 --> 01:37:39,910 support this work? How can counselors better 2227 01:37:39,910 --> 01:37:44,120 become involved in this and understand where they 2228 01:37:44,120 --> 01:37:44,430 are 2229 01:37:44,430 --> 01:37:47,380 in this organizational structure and how we fit 2230 01:37:47,380 --> 01:37:49,000 into it and how we can participate. 2231 01:37:49,000 --> 01:37:54,930 I guess how counselors can be as it pertains to 2232 01:37:54,930 --> 01:37:57,070 the audit report that's in front of us please. 2233 01:37:57,070 --> 01:38:00,640 Thank you Madam Chair. We find a lot of rules for 2234 01:38:00,640 --> 01:38:02,980 council with respect to providing input from 2235 01:38:02,980 --> 01:38:04,860 community priorities particularly as you're 2236 01:38:04,860 --> 01:38:06,800 developing or the next council develops their 2237 01:38:06,800 --> 01:38:08,720 strategic plan as well as through the 2238 01:38:08,720 --> 01:38:11,330 consideration of the multi-year budget process 2239 01:38:11,330 --> 01:38:12,370 that would decide 2240 01:38:12,370 --> 01:38:14,400 what are the priorities related to this file 2241 01:38:14,400 --> 01:38:16,830 related to the many other important files 2242 01:38:16,830 --> 01:38:24,740 I think my last question through the chair, my 2243 01:38:24,740 --> 01:38:27,650 last question through the chair I guess is when I 2244 01:38:27,650 --> 01:38:31,140 look at the role of the planning committee and 2245 01:38:31,140 --> 01:38:33,900 when I look at the role of the infrastructure and 2246 01:38:33,900 --> 01:38:37,180 civic works committee, and when I look at the 2247 01:38:37,180 --> 01:38:40,590 role of which the other one I'm on that when the 2248 01:38:40,590 --> 01:38:40,690 community 2249 01:38:40,590 --> 01:38:43,950 services committee. I see that they all have 2250 01:38:43,950 --> 01:38:46,990 jurisdiction over pieces here and 2251 01:38:46,990 --> 01:38:50,770 there of the environmental puzzle and I guess it 2252 01:38:50,770 --> 01:38:52,740 's always the prerogative. 20 2253 01:38:52,740 --> 01:38:55,100 seconds. It's always the prerogative of the clerk 2254 01:38:55,100 --> 01:38:56,380 . I'm sorry if I'm taking too 2255 01:38:56,380 --> 01:38:58,450 much time but I think I've sat here for four 2256 01:38:58,450 --> 01:38:59,790 years and haven't seen a lot of 2257 01:38:59,790 --> 01:39:01,500 progress. Okay, particularly Councillor, I've sat 2258 01:39:01,500 --> 01:39:02,570 here for eight and I'm the chair 2259 01:39:02,570 --> 01:39:03,940 of the committee. If you have a question you have 2260 01:39:03,940 --> 01:39:04,910 20 seconds remaining if you 2261 01:39:04,910 --> 01:39:08,230 would like to ask it. Yeah, I'd like to know how 2262 01:39:08,230 --> 01:39:10,220 we can rationalize better the 2263 01:39:10,220 --> 01:39:11,990 assignment to different committees when even the 2264 01:39:11,990 --> 01:39:12,370 committee 2265 01:39:12,370 --> 01:39:14,620 members aren't really sure what's within their 2266 01:39:14,620 --> 01:39:15,390 jurisdiction. 2267 01:39:15,390 --> 01:39:17,220 Because again, it keeps changing. 2268 01:39:17,220 --> 01:39:19,400 And all of these standing committees 2269 01:39:19,400 --> 01:39:21,510 all have a piece of this environmental puzzle. 2270 01:39:21,510 --> 01:39:24,450 How can we improve that? 2271 01:39:24,450 --> 01:39:26,060 Thank you. 2272 01:39:26,060 --> 01:39:27,600 I would really question of order. 2273 01:39:27,600 --> 01:39:30,240 As we counsel keeps changing, it's us 2274 01:39:30,240 --> 01:39:32,870 that's changing the committee format and what 2275 01:39:32,870 --> 01:39:33,870 goes where 2276 01:39:33,870 --> 01:39:38,420 as legislation changes, that's an us thing. 2277 01:39:38,420 --> 01:39:40,550 Ms. Stater's Bear, if you want to answer briefly. 2278 01:39:40,550 --> 01:39:42,240 No, OK. 2279 01:39:42,240 --> 01:39:45,010 - Well, it's hard for a counselor to try to think 2280 01:39:45,010 --> 01:39:45,310 about 2281 01:39:45,310 --> 01:39:47,340 how to improve this situation. 2282 01:39:47,340 --> 01:39:49,730 If an ultimate question like that is ruled out of 2283 01:39:49,730 --> 01:39:50,150 order. 2284 01:39:50,150 --> 01:39:52,640 And with that, I'll just take this up someplace 2285 01:39:52,640 --> 01:39:52,970 else. 2286 01:39:52,970 --> 01:39:53,960 Thank you very much. 2287 01:39:53,960 --> 01:39:55,370 - Thank you. 2288 01:39:55,370 --> 01:39:59,810 The city clerk has also available to go over 2289 01:39:59,810 --> 01:40:03,100 the delegation of topic matters to each committee 2290 01:40:03,100 --> 01:40:06,480 and how to address a change if one would like. 2291 01:40:06,480 --> 01:40:09,360 I've met with him in the past and was very useful 2292 01:40:09,360 --> 01:40:09,880 . 2293 01:40:09,880 --> 01:40:11,140 Councilor Frank, there you are. 2294 01:40:11,140 --> 01:40:14,690 you're on screen. We're on, I believe you know, 2295 01:40:14,690 --> 01:40:15,450 the 4.5 2296 01:40:15,450 --> 01:40:19,210 permit emergency action audit that's before us. I 2297 01:40:19,210 --> 01:40:19,470 assume you're 2298 01:40:19,470 --> 01:40:21,490 here to speak to that one first. The floor is 2299 01:40:21,490 --> 01:40:21,840 yours. 2300 01:40:21,840 --> 01:40:26,650 Thank you. Yes. And I just had a couple questions 2301 01:40:26,650 --> 01:40:27,370 through you to 2302 01:40:27,370 --> 01:40:31,940 staff. I appreciate the work and the results that 2303 01:40:31,940 --> 01:40:32,880 we received 2304 01:40:32,880 --> 01:40:35,380 from this audit. I can't say I was surprised 2305 01:40:35,380 --> 01:40:36,650 because I had been 2306 01:40:36,650 --> 01:40:40,020 hearing and seeing some of the themes that 2307 01:40:40,020 --> 01:40:40,740 emerged from these 2308 01:40:40,740 --> 01:40:43,480 recommendations. So through you to staff, I just 2309 01:40:43,480 --> 01:40:48,020 want to confirm that given the, the high priority 2310 01:40:48,020 --> 01:40:51,400 that a sufficient amount of these items has 2311 01:40:51,400 --> 01:40:54,380 received, if this is going to be, um, you know, 2312 01:40:54,380 --> 01:40:57,810 expedited or prioritized in the next year, given 2313 01:40:57,810 --> 01:41:01,390 the high risk nature that MMP has identified 2314 01:41:01,390 --> 01:41:01,620 these 2315 01:41:01,620 --> 01:41:05,720 risks at. Thank you. Miss Chambers, do you want 2316 01:41:05,720 --> 01:41:08,940 to start this one? Okay. Thank you through the 2317 01:41:08,940 --> 01:41:09,260 chair 2318 01:41:09,260 --> 01:41:11,280 And it's an excellent question. 2319 01:41:11,280 --> 01:41:13,210 Yeah, we've already started work on looking at 2320 01:41:13,210 --> 01:41:13,630 the current 2321 01:41:13,630 --> 01:41:17,000 SEAP and how we can be modifying it to be ready 2322 01:41:17,000 --> 01:41:17,100 basically 2323 01:41:17,050 --> 01:41:18,960 for the next strategic plan and the next multi- 2324 01:41:18,960 --> 01:41:19,430 year budget 2325 01:41:19,430 --> 01:41:22,850 because we do see changes that have happened 2326 01:41:22,850 --> 01:41:25,440 legislatively in society as well. 2327 01:41:25,440 --> 01:41:27,480 And we want the plan to be very relevant. 2328 01:41:27,480 --> 01:41:30,280 And this audit we feel has helped us because 2329 01:41:30,280 --> 01:41:30,680 there's a lot 2330 01:41:30,680 --> 01:41:33,510 of items in there that we agree with and that we 2331 01:41:33,510 --> 01:41:33,940 had already 2332 01:41:33,940 --> 01:41:36,060 started to speak with internally. 2333 01:41:36,060 --> 01:41:38,970 So as we've laid out in the response, 2334 01:41:38,970 --> 01:41:41,880 We are in the next year going to be very heavily 2335 01:41:41,880 --> 01:41:44,190 looking at revitalizing the plan. 2336 01:41:44,190 --> 01:41:47,500 Just yesterday, we brought forward the adaptation 2337 01:41:47,500 --> 01:41:50,970 strategy funding agreement with FCM. 2338 01:41:50,970 --> 01:41:53,420 That's going to be integral to shaping the next 2339 01:41:53,420 --> 01:41:55,060 plan as well. 2340 01:41:55,060 --> 01:41:56,160 So the answer is yes. 2341 01:41:56,160 --> 01:41:57,870 We're definitely going to be prioritizing this 2342 01:41:57,870 --> 01:42:02,080 to be ready for future decisions for Council. 2343 01:42:02,080 --> 01:42:03,820 Councilor Frank. 2344 01:42:03,820 --> 01:42:05,090 - Thank you. 2345 01:42:05,090 --> 01:42:06,500 I appreciate that in the reference to the 2346 01:42:06,500 --> 01:42:06,920 adaptation plan. 2347 01:42:06,920 --> 01:42:09,360 I'm looking forward to that one as well. 2348 01:42:09,360 --> 01:42:11,410 some recent polling shows that over 30% of 2349 01:42:11,410 --> 01:42:13,140 Canadians are now being personally impacted 2350 01:42:13,140 --> 01:42:15,190 by extreme weather events like heat waves, floods 2351 01:42:15,190 --> 01:42:16,570 and fires. So I think it's becoming 2352 01:42:16,570 --> 01:42:20,580 more and more top of mind. Additionally, another 2353 01:42:20,580 --> 01:42:23,380 polling data app of this data shows that 50% 2354 01:42:23,380 --> 01:42:25,380 feel their government is not currently doing 2355 01:42:25,380 --> 01:42:28,640 enough on climate change. So I feel like it's 2356 01:42:28,640 --> 01:42:32,270 an opportune time for us to buckle down and try 2357 01:42:32,270 --> 01:42:35,230 to make some movement on these areas. 2358 01:42:35,230 --> 01:42:37,980 And I just want to also check because again, as 2359 01:42:37,980 --> 01:42:40,530 outlined in the audit, it indicates that, 2360 01:42:40,530 --> 01:42:43,400 you know, staff asked for about $45 million over 2361 01:42:43,400 --> 01:42:44,250 four years. 2362 01:42:44,250 --> 01:42:47,920 We gave them about $882,000 a year, just triple 2363 01:42:47,920 --> 01:42:50,800 checking that in the next multi-year budget. 2364 01:42:50,800 --> 01:42:53,550 Staff will come back with a new costed portion of 2365 01:42:53,550 --> 01:42:55,150 the updated climate plan. 2366 01:42:55,150 --> 01:42:59,630 You see some nods, but let's get a verbal for you 2367 01:42:59,630 --> 01:43:01,650 , Ms. Chambers. 2368 01:43:01,650 --> 01:43:02,640 Thank you. 2369 01:43:02,640 --> 01:43:04,320 And through the chair, yes, the plan is to 2370 01:43:04,320 --> 01:43:06,210 develop the strategy, which will also include 2371 01:43:06,210 --> 01:43:08,280 Budget asks part and parcel. 2372 01:43:08,280 --> 01:43:09,390 We don't want to develop a strategy 2373 01:43:09,390 --> 01:43:10,860 and not have any dollars attached to it. 2374 01:43:10,860 --> 01:43:12,520 So we will certainly bring those forward 2375 01:43:12,520 --> 01:43:14,060 for a council decision. 2376 01:43:14,060 --> 01:43:15,880 - Councilor Frank. 2377 01:43:15,880 --> 01:43:16,910 - Thank you, I appreciate that. 2378 01:43:16,910 --> 01:43:18,690 We know the saying goes that if you want 2379 01:43:18,690 --> 01:43:20,870 to see city's priorities, you look in the budget. 2380 01:43:20,870 --> 01:43:23,000 So I'm hopeful that next term of council, 2381 01:43:23,000 --> 01:43:25,030 we see some movement there as well. 2382 01:43:25,030 --> 01:43:27,250 Thank you very much to MNP and to staff 2383 01:43:27,250 --> 01:43:29,560 who helped bring this forward. 2384 01:43:29,560 --> 01:43:31,230 - Thank you. 2385 01:43:31,230 --> 01:43:33,680 Councilor Karykast, or I procedurally, 2386 01:43:33,680 --> 01:43:34,950 Councilor Stevenson, would you take the chair 2387 01:43:34,950 --> 01:43:36,490 for a moment and make comment as a vice chair? 2388 01:43:36,490 --> 01:43:37,320 - Yes, thank you. 2389 01:43:37,320 --> 01:43:39,870 the chair and you are next. 2390 01:43:39,870 --> 01:43:41,770 - I'm sorry, thank you, just Councillor Cuddy, 2391 01:43:41,770 --> 01:43:43,910 looked at me first, so I was gonna make him do it 2392 01:43:43,910 --> 01:43:44,070 . 2393 01:43:44,070 --> 01:43:46,510 Just thank you to staff on this one, 2394 01:43:46,510 --> 01:43:49,520 I know it might speak to some other people's 2395 01:43:49,520 --> 01:43:49,890 comments, 2396 01:43:49,890 --> 01:43:52,790 it's different reiterations, it evolves. 2397 01:43:52,790 --> 01:43:55,130 We've certainly seen different council priorities 2398 01:43:55,130 --> 01:43:57,950 based on what we're seeing locally at the time, 2399 01:43:57,950 --> 01:44:00,010 the composition of council changes. 2400 01:44:00,010 --> 01:44:04,840 Staff can always bring the best laid-in research 2401 01:44:04,840 --> 01:44:05,610 plan forward 2402 01:44:05,610 --> 01:44:07,590 and then it's up to council to endorse or not 2403 01:44:07,590 --> 01:44:11,810 are funded or not, or re-prioritize things as we 2404 01:44:11,810 --> 01:44:12,400 go. 2405 01:44:12,400 --> 01:44:17,410 I like that one of the points is alignment 2406 01:44:17,410 --> 01:44:19,090 of the next climate change plan with the 2407 01:44:19,090 --> 01:44:20,510 strategic planning 2408 01:44:20,510 --> 01:44:21,950 has already been identified by Civic 2409 01:44:21,950 --> 01:44:22,740 Administration 2410 01:44:22,740 --> 01:44:26,920 as a priority and great to see under another 2411 01:44:26,920 --> 01:44:27,300 target 2412 01:44:27,300 --> 01:44:31,740 that Civic Administration is currently pursuing 2413 01:44:31,740 --> 01:44:36,550 as a member of the Canada's Municipal Net Zero 2414 01:44:36,550 --> 01:44:36,840 Action 2415 01:44:36,840 --> 01:44:41,200 Research Partnership information and funding 2416 01:44:41,200 --> 01:44:44,520 to bring back from the next MYB, which I think is 2417 01:44:44,520 --> 01:44:47,390 going to be the priority that it really is up 2418 01:44:47,390 --> 01:44:48,800 to council for the implementation of 2419 01:44:48,800 --> 01:44:50,730 implementation and funding. And I know that we've 2420 01:44:50,730 --> 01:44:52,440 seen goal 2421 01:44:52,440 --> 01:44:56,620 post changed, reduced or completely emerged, 2422 01:44:56,620 --> 01:45:00,070 removed based on even in the council that was 2423 01:45:00,070 --> 01:45:00,450 prior. 2424 01:45:00,450 --> 01:45:04,610 If we felt the goals were achievable or not or 2425 01:45:04,610 --> 01:45:09,810 too hard to reach. So looking forward to 2426 01:45:10,590 --> 01:45:13,560 the report coming back with the next MYB with a 2427 01:45:13,560 --> 01:45:15,000 fresh term a council on different 2428 01:45:15,000 --> 01:45:18,430 different perspectives especially since resident 2429 01:45:18,430 --> 01:45:20,480 engagement will always 2430 01:45:20,480 --> 01:45:23,190 flow with the as staff go out and do that. 2431 01:45:23,190 --> 01:45:24,730 Looking forward to see how it comes back 2432 01:45:24,730 --> 01:45:28,110 and any legislative changes as well as these 2433 01:45:28,110 --> 01:45:31,330 report come back with our audits. 2434 01:45:31,330 --> 01:45:33,560 So just do my comments there that I know we're 2435 01:45:33,560 --> 01:45:35,700 not always where we want to be on something. 2436 01:45:37,060 --> 01:45:41,330 but that's a decision of a collective we in these 2437 01:45:41,330 --> 01:45:43,870 seats so I'm grateful for the audit to 2438 01:45:43,870 --> 01:45:45,770 highlight these and I'm sure it will be part of 2439 01:45:45,770 --> 01:45:48,880 the budget too that will have the information so 2440 01:45:48,880 --> 01:45:51,320 the next time we do look at the NYB's and strat 2441 01:45:51,320 --> 01:45:54,040 plans and these indicators that there actually is 2442 01:45:54,040 --> 01:45:54,200 an 2443 01:45:54,200 --> 01:45:56,990 audit as information from a third party to go 2444 01:45:56,990 --> 01:45:59,620 back and review and highlights for informational 2445 01:45:59,620 --> 01:46:02,210 pieces as well. Councillor Stevenson that's my 2446 01:46:02,210 --> 01:46:05,390 comments. Thank you and I'll return the chair. 2447 01:46:05,390 --> 01:46:08,800 looking for other speakers online or in chambers. 2448 01:46:08,800 --> 01:46:11,530 Okay, this was a motion to receive this report 2449 01:46:11,530 --> 01:46:13,420 already moved and seconded a show of hands 2450 01:46:13,420 --> 01:46:15,410 of all those in favor. 2451 01:46:15,410 --> 01:46:17,570 Motion carries. 2452 01:46:17,570 --> 01:46:20,460 Thank you. 2453 01:46:20,460 --> 01:46:24,930 Our presenters today are welcome to stay or go. 2454 01:46:24,930 --> 01:46:27,990 That's your official presentations. 2455 01:46:27,990 --> 01:46:31,180 4.6 is a request that the city's oversight 2456 01:46:31,180 --> 01:46:33,690 of housing cooperative services providers 2457 01:46:33,690 --> 01:46:35,800 is a letter submitted by Councillor Frank 2458 01:46:35,800 --> 01:46:39,390 on page 123 of your original packages. 2459 01:46:39,390 --> 01:46:41,550 Councilor Frank as a visiting member committee 2460 01:46:41,550 --> 01:46:43,450 you know you cannot move or second it but I will 2461 01:46:43,450 --> 01:46:43,690 go 2462 01:46:43,690 --> 01:46:47,060 to you first to at least tell us briefly about 2463 01:46:47,060 --> 01:46:49,820 what it is and then I will look to see if there's 2464 01:46:49,820 --> 01:46:51,990 someone in chambers. Do you want us to move 2465 01:46:51,990 --> 01:46:53,650 receipt for now just to get it on the floor? 2466 01:46:53,650 --> 01:46:57,250 So Councilor Frank we're not going to move 2467 01:46:57,250 --> 01:46:59,060 anything at the time I will let you briefly 2468 01:46:59,060 --> 01:47:01,060 speak to it of what you're looking for as we have 2469 01:47:01,060 --> 01:47:03,500 not spoken beforehand so I just can't 2470 01:47:03,500 --> 01:47:06,830 guide that conversation so I'll go to you briefly 2471 01:47:06,830 --> 01:47:10,660 first. Sure happy to and I kind of outlined the 2472 01:47:10,660 --> 01:47:12,840 The rationale is to why it's ending up at audit 2473 01:47:12,840 --> 01:47:13,770 committee. 2474 01:47:13,770 --> 01:47:16,320 But this came about when we had a discussion 2475 01:47:16,320 --> 01:47:20,670 regards to the toll puddle housing cooperative. 2476 01:47:20,670 --> 01:47:24,140 When that came forward, I believe it was at CPSC. 2477 01:47:24,140 --> 01:47:25,770 And we had some discussion at committee 2478 01:47:25,770 --> 01:47:28,930 and then at council looking at the oversight 2479 01:47:28,930 --> 01:47:31,000 of our housing cooperative services. 2480 01:47:31,000 --> 01:47:33,030 We have had some audits done in the past 2481 01:47:33,030 --> 01:47:38,020 as our reference of 403 Thompson and 122 baseline 2482 01:47:38,300 --> 01:47:41,680 and those projects as well as other housing 2483 01:47:41,680 --> 01:47:43,730 related programs. 2484 01:47:43,730 --> 01:47:46,800 But we haven't really specifically drilled down 2485 01:47:46,800 --> 01:47:48,660 and looked at the housing cooperative service 2486 01:47:48,660 --> 01:47:49,140 providers 2487 01:47:49,140 --> 01:47:51,840 and the relationship that they hold with staff 2488 01:47:51,840 --> 01:47:53,080 and with the city service manager, 2489 01:47:53,080 --> 01:47:56,740 as well as the complex governance that that 2490 01:47:56,740 --> 01:47:57,490 requires. 2491 01:47:57,490 --> 01:48:02,550 And so this is a motion to have this be evaluated 2492 01:48:02,550 --> 01:48:05,210 underneath of our internal audit plan 2493 01:48:05,210 --> 01:48:07,320 to look at housing cooperative service providers 2494 01:48:07,320 --> 01:48:11,180 and the process in which we supervise and work 2495 01:48:11,180 --> 01:48:11,700 with them 2496 01:48:11,700 --> 01:48:13,950 and the governance, the town placement, 2497 01:48:13,950 --> 01:48:17,550 the asset management and the oversight processes. 2498 01:48:17,550 --> 01:48:19,800 Really focusing at solutions just because we had 2499 01:48:19,800 --> 01:48:20,020 seen 2500 01:48:20,020 --> 01:48:22,220 some issues with the toll puddle housing 2501 01:48:22,220 --> 01:48:22,960 cooperative 2502 01:48:22,960 --> 01:48:24,970 and I'm hoping that we can figure out 2503 01:48:24,970 --> 01:48:28,180 what those issues are and move forward. 2504 01:48:28,180 --> 01:48:28,970 - Thank you. 2505 01:48:28,970 --> 01:48:34,470 So-- - Sure, I'm gonna move that for Councilor 2506 01:48:34,470 --> 01:48:38,950 Frank. 2507 01:48:38,950 --> 01:48:40,300 - Sorry, I could put my mic on for you to 2508 01:48:40,300 --> 01:48:40,730 actually hear me. 2509 01:48:40,730 --> 01:48:42,630 So just looking to see if you're moving receipt 2510 01:48:42,630 --> 01:48:45,990 of the letter or if you're moving that this be 2511 01:48:45,990 --> 01:48:46,430 requested 2512 01:48:46,430 --> 01:48:50,310 to be an internal audit plan. 2513 01:48:50,310 --> 01:48:51,360 - I don't know, Councillor Frank, 2514 01:48:51,360 --> 01:48:52,680 what would you like me to do? 2515 01:48:52,680 --> 01:48:54,060 - She can't speak to it. 2516 01:48:54,060 --> 01:48:58,300 I'll note that as always audit goes to council 2517 01:48:58,300 --> 01:49:01,040 for a final vote and anything can be changed 2518 01:49:01,040 --> 01:49:01,310 there. 2519 01:49:01,310 --> 01:49:02,580 - Chair, ma'am. 2520 01:49:02,580 --> 01:49:04,720 So I'd like to move, do you want to move 2521 01:49:04,720 --> 01:49:05,370 something? 2522 01:49:05,370 --> 01:49:07,900 So no, I'll move a new second and then you can, 2523 01:49:07,900 --> 01:49:09,200 okay. 2524 01:49:09,200 --> 01:49:10,030 Sorry chair. 2525 01:49:10,030 --> 01:49:11,520 So I'll move the receipt of the letter, 2526 01:49:11,520 --> 01:49:13,800 but also, I think, Councillor Stevenson, 2527 01:49:13,800 --> 01:49:25,890 who's my seconder, has an amendment to make two. 2528 01:49:25,890 --> 01:49:30,070 - So, a nod of, we're gonna put it on the floor 2529 01:49:30,070 --> 01:49:33,590 to receive, moved by Councillor Cudi, 2530 01:49:33,590 --> 01:49:35,950 a nod from Councillor Stevenson, yes. 2531 01:49:35,950 --> 01:49:38,970 Okay, so it's on the floor, Councillor Stevenson. 2532 01:49:38,970 --> 01:49:42,390 - And then, as an amendment, can we talk, 2533 01:49:42,390 --> 01:49:44,180 well, no, I wanna talk about it first, 2534 01:49:44,180 --> 01:49:46,910 and then I think I'll have an amendment in terms 2535 01:49:46,910 --> 01:49:47,270 of just, 2536 01:49:47,270 --> 01:49:49,130 I just wanna make sure the wording of the motion 2537 01:49:49,130 --> 01:49:51,190 is right before we start messing around with it. 2538 01:49:51,190 --> 01:49:54,180 - Okay, so I'll pause you there. 2539 01:49:54,180 --> 01:49:56,700 So I had to have a conversation with staff in 2540 01:49:56,700 --> 01:49:57,400 advance. 2541 01:49:57,400 --> 01:49:58,940 We can certainly go to staff 2542 01:49:58,940 --> 01:50:02,640 to see what your questions might be about timing, 2543 01:50:02,640 --> 01:50:05,020 how many co-ops we're actually talking about, 2544 01:50:05,020 --> 01:50:07,630 if they're actually under city purview 2545 01:50:07,630 --> 01:50:09,890 or we have access to all their books, 2546 01:50:09,890 --> 01:50:11,270 is some of them are mandated by us 2547 01:50:11,270 --> 01:50:13,320 but versus provincial and federal mandates 2548 01:50:13,320 --> 01:50:18,460 so they might be governed under, yeah. 2549 01:50:18,460 --> 01:50:20,550 - Well, I think if I can just narrow the scope of 2550 01:50:20,550 --> 01:50:20,800 that, 2551 01:50:20,800 --> 01:50:21,990 'cause I'm sure it'll be interesting, 2552 01:50:21,990 --> 01:50:24,890 but it's, my understanding, and I haven't talked 2553 01:50:24,890 --> 01:50:27,620 to Councillor Frank, is it talks about the city's 2554 01:50:27,620 --> 01:50:28,020 oversight 2555 01:50:28,020 --> 01:50:31,690 of it, so we're talking about the city's piece of 2556 01:50:31,690 --> 01:50:32,260 this, 2557 01:50:32,260 --> 01:50:35,780 rather than the complexities of all the others, 2558 01:50:35,780 --> 01:50:35,880 right? 2559 01:50:35,780 --> 01:50:39,160 But there's a city piece to this, okay. 2560 01:50:39,160 --> 01:50:40,990 - It depends if a person is interpreting 2561 01:50:40,990 --> 01:50:44,690 as the city's funders of it, or the city also has 2562 01:50:44,690 --> 01:50:46,660 like inspection stuff going on at site, 2563 01:50:46,660 --> 01:50:49,330 or we're supporting some residents on site. 2564 01:50:49,330 --> 01:50:52,660 If staff could high-level speak to how they would 2565 01:50:52,660 --> 01:50:53,050 interpret 2566 01:50:53,050 --> 01:50:56,250 realizing where we're at in the conversation and 2567 01:50:56,250 --> 01:50:58,350 what you've heard of if 2568 01:50:58,350 --> 01:51:00,030 you have any numbers of how many co-ops or how 2569 01:51:00,030 --> 01:51:01,110 you would review this? 2570 01:51:01,110 --> 01:51:04,830 Yeah, through the through the chair there's a 2571 01:51:04,830 --> 01:51:07,020 couple of questions there so the 2572 01:51:07,020 --> 01:51:09,120 way that I read it and feel free if there's 2573 01:51:09,120 --> 01:51:10,400 someone has different 2574 01:51:10,400 --> 01:51:13,350 interpretation is that it is very much focused on 2575 01:51:13,350 --> 01:51:15,260 as our responsibility as part 2576 01:51:15,260 --> 01:51:17,050 of our role as the service manager for the 2577 01:51:17,050 --> 01:51:20,760 service area. So currently there's 16 2578 01:51:20,760 --> 01:51:24,140 co-ops within our service area 15 of those are in 2579 01:51:24,140 --> 01:51:25,180 London and then one would be in 2580 01:51:25,180 --> 01:51:36,080 Middlesex County. So again would have been 2581 01:51:36,080 --> 01:51:37,400 helpful I suppose if we chatted 2582 01:51:37,400 --> 01:51:41,430 before but the way I see this is the situation 2583 01:51:41,430 --> 01:51:43,920 that happened at a toll 2584 01:51:43,920 --> 01:51:50,950 pedal. I as a counselor would like to know what 2585 01:51:50,950 --> 01:51:55,450 we're doing and because what 2586 01:51:55,450 --> 01:51:57,590 happened was that came out through media again 2587 01:51:57,590 --> 01:51:59,260 right but the thing is if 2588 01:51:59,260 --> 01:52:05,260 what is the role as service manager to ensure 2589 01:52:05,260 --> 01:52:06,600 that we've got safe housing out 2590 01:52:06,600 --> 01:52:08,930 there we're funding it so we want to know that it 2591 01:52:08,930 --> 01:52:10,170 's safe out there and that 2592 01:52:10,170 --> 01:52:14,680 that we can as council can help the situation and 2593 01:52:14,680 --> 01:52:19,060 so I support some kind of 2594 01:52:19,060 --> 01:52:21,510 review over what is currently being done because 2595 01:52:21,510 --> 01:52:24,940 what I saw didn't work so if 2596 01:52:24,940 --> 01:52:30,510 staff could help us that way help us help you. So 2597 01:52:30,510 --> 01:52:32,530 I'll go to Mr. Mathers for the 2598 01:52:32,530 --> 01:52:38,290 answer. I'm going to highlight this can always be 2599 01:52:38,290 --> 01:52:40,170 something we just passed receipt of a committee 2600 01:52:40,170 --> 01:52:44,160 and work on well-worded amendments with staff 2601 01:52:44,160 --> 01:52:47,740 outside of this. Just mindful that this could 2602 01:52:47,740 --> 01:52:51,250 take an extended period of time, not knowing the 2603 01:52:51,250 --> 01:52:53,580 intent of the person who submitted the 2604 01:52:53,580 --> 01:52:56,910 letter to us and staff's answers behind the 2605 01:52:56,910 --> 01:53:00,250 scenes in addition to audit questions themselves 2606 01:53:00,250 --> 01:53:03,940 and not knowing that list of 16 co-ops 2607 01:53:03,940 --> 01:53:07,200 that would actually perhaps may or may not 2608 01:53:07,200 --> 01:53:09,900 have more interest in than others. 2609 01:53:09,900 --> 01:53:11,910 Mr. Mathers. 2610 01:53:11,910 --> 01:53:12,670 - Yeah, through the chair. 2611 01:53:12,670 --> 01:53:15,660 So I think some of the things that we hear 2612 01:53:15,660 --> 01:53:20,480 as significant concerns, and I agree with as well 2613 01:53:20,480 --> 01:53:20,580 , 2614 01:53:20,480 --> 01:53:21,870 are covered within this piece. 2615 01:53:21,870 --> 01:53:24,260 So the tenant placement, the asset management, 2616 01:53:24,260 --> 01:53:26,770 I think that's a really important piece as well. 2617 01:53:26,770 --> 01:53:29,370 And then also the governance, 2618 01:53:29,370 --> 01:53:31,610 there's of course a difference between how co-op 2619 01:53:31,610 --> 01:53:32,150 is governed 2620 01:53:32,150 --> 01:53:35,840 and many of the typical other housing providers 2621 01:53:35,840 --> 01:53:36,600 are governed. 2622 01:53:36,600 --> 01:53:38,710 So I think those would be really important things 2623 01:53:38,710 --> 01:53:45,940 to consider as part of an audit. 2624 01:53:45,940 --> 01:53:49,560 - Hey, and just realizing it also is like a 2625 01:53:49,560 --> 01:53:52,170 future audit. 2626 01:53:52,170 --> 01:53:54,410 We already have our audits queued up 2627 01:53:54,410 --> 01:53:58,210 for this term in contract that's coming back. 2628 01:53:58,210 --> 01:54:00,500 Just timing-wise, are we anticipating this would 2629 01:54:00,500 --> 01:54:00,760 be 2630 01:54:00,760 --> 01:54:02,780 the next round of things we contract 2631 01:54:02,780 --> 01:54:06,170 out post this term in council? 2632 01:54:06,170 --> 01:54:07,960 Ms. Barbone, just timing and just trying to 2633 01:54:07,960 --> 01:54:10,070 understand. 2634 01:54:10,070 --> 01:54:11,260 - Thank you through the chairs. 2635 01:54:11,260 --> 01:54:13,760 So right now, we have the audits that are set 2636 01:54:13,760 --> 01:54:16,300 before until the end of council. 2637 01:54:16,300 --> 01:54:20,050 In 2027, there would be a revised risk assessment 2638 01:54:20,050 --> 01:54:21,780 and a revised audit plan. 2639 01:54:21,780 --> 01:54:25,150 So we don't have a project plan for 2027. 2640 01:54:25,150 --> 01:54:28,520 So what I would suggest is that if there is an 2641 01:54:28,520 --> 01:54:30,390 interest in the committee to have this 2642 01:54:30,390 --> 01:54:36,180 looked at, that it be referred to the 2027 or the 2643 01:54:36,180 --> 01:54:38,050 development of the new internal audit 2644 01:54:38,050 --> 01:54:41,960 plan that would take place as part of the 2027 2645 01:54:41,960 --> 01:54:43,040 review. 2646 01:54:43,040 --> 01:54:44,910 So that would be subject to the audit committee 2647 01:54:44,910 --> 01:54:48,030 and then would be part of the development. 2648 01:54:48,030 --> 01:54:50,430 Because depending on the risk assessment, the 2649 01:54:50,430 --> 01:54:52,700 audit committee at the time may or may not, 2650 01:54:52,700 --> 01:54:54,780 in terms of what the timing would be on this, 2651 01:54:54,780 --> 01:54:57,170 would be best put forward as the audit committee 2652 01:54:57,170 --> 01:54:59,260 is looking at the revised risk assessment to see 2653 01:54:59,260 --> 01:55:00,960 where that fits in terms of priority 2654 01:55:00,960 --> 01:55:03,430 and with respect to timing. 2655 01:55:03,430 --> 01:55:05,580 There wouldn't be any other capacity to put any 2656 01:55:05,580 --> 01:55:07,420 audits in for this year, so that would 2657 01:55:07,420 --> 01:55:10,800 my recommendation is to have that forwarded for 2658 01:55:10,800 --> 01:55:13,250 the review that will take place in 27 and then 2659 01:55:13,250 --> 01:55:16,000 the audit committee can determine and forward 2660 01:55:16,000 --> 01:55:18,520 that to the auditors as part of that review. 2661 01:55:18,520 --> 01:55:27,390 Thank you. So that sounds good. In practice are 2662 01:55:27,390 --> 01:55:29,790 we then just changing the wording so instead of 2663 01:55:29,790 --> 01:55:32,530 being requested to add to the internal audit plan 2664 01:55:32,530 --> 01:55:35,500 we're requesting to include in the review of the 2665 01:55:35,500 --> 01:55:41,850 the 2027 audit plan, or to consider, to consider? 2666 01:55:41,850 --> 01:55:44,650 - I think, Councillor, we could just, 2667 01:55:44,650 --> 01:55:46,760 we're receiving it, we could forward it to that 2668 01:55:46,760 --> 01:55:47,220 timeline 2669 01:55:47,220 --> 01:55:50,220 that Ms. Barbone lined out. 2670 01:55:50,220 --> 01:55:53,580 And then at that time, whoever is on audit can 2671 01:55:53,580 --> 01:55:53,680 consider 2672 01:55:53,670 --> 01:55:55,180 the things Councillor Frank laid out 2673 01:55:55,180 --> 01:55:57,600 as potential scope items, being governance, 2674 01:55:57,600 --> 01:56:00,330 property management, and get advice from the 2675 01:56:00,330 --> 01:56:00,490 auditor 2676 01:56:00,490 --> 01:56:03,340 at the time of how much those are actually 2677 01:56:03,340 --> 01:56:04,050 identifiable 2678 01:56:04,050 --> 01:56:07,690 that they could bring back a report looking at 2679 01:56:07,690 --> 01:56:09,180 that. 2680 01:56:09,180 --> 01:56:10,940 When you say forward, are you talking about a 2681 01:56:10,940 --> 01:56:12,170 referral? 2682 01:56:12,170 --> 01:56:12,970 - Yeah, we received the letter 2683 01:56:12,970 --> 01:56:15,810 and we refer it to the future audit committee 2684 01:56:15,810 --> 01:56:18,730 to review with that risk assessment plan 2685 01:56:18,730 --> 01:56:20,990 that Ms. Barbara laid out, 2686 01:56:20,990 --> 01:56:22,210 'cause there's not capacity left 2687 01:56:22,210 --> 01:56:23,440 with the audits in this term account. 2688 01:56:23,440 --> 01:56:24,510 - Yeah, no, and I get it. 2689 01:56:24,510 --> 01:56:26,650 The only concern I have is that then staff 2690 01:56:26,650 --> 01:56:28,240 aren't including it in the initial one, 2691 01:56:28,240 --> 01:56:33,090 so then it would come with staff's audit plan, I 2692 01:56:33,090 --> 01:56:33,650 'm assuming, 2693 01:56:33,650 --> 01:56:36,530 and then we'd have to try to squeeze it in. 2694 01:56:36,530 --> 01:56:38,860 We are the next council. 2695 01:56:38,860 --> 01:56:42,230 Mr. Schultz says it could be referred to civic 2696 01:56:42,230 --> 01:56:44,310 administration for them to put that into the plan 2697 01:56:44,310 --> 01:56:47,410 Consideration wasn't comes back miss barbone 2698 01:56:47,410 --> 01:56:50,770 procedurally to you. How would your team if we 2699 01:56:50,770 --> 01:56:52,970 are interested in having this considered 2700 01:56:52,970 --> 01:56:55,350 collective we of the next term of we? 2701 01:56:55,350 --> 01:56:59,380 procedurally, how would your team do it if we 2702 01:56:59,380 --> 01:57:01,830 referred it to where you said 2703 01:57:01,830 --> 01:57:06,370 Thank you through the chair. So one of the first 2704 01:57:06,370 --> 01:57:08,510 things that would occur in I'm assuming there 2705 01:57:08,510 --> 01:57:09,580 would be a February 2706 01:57:10,420 --> 01:57:14,090 audit committee that this be referred to the 2707 01:57:14,090 --> 01:57:15,900 audit committee that in 2708 01:57:15,900 --> 01:57:19,290 2027 to be considered as part of the risk 2709 01:57:19,290 --> 01:57:22,340 assessment and development of the revised 2710 01:57:22,340 --> 01:57:24,920 internal audit plan because the very first step 2711 01:57:24,920 --> 01:57:25,450 will be 2712 01:57:25,450 --> 01:57:27,970 the auditors will be meeting with the 2713 01:57:27,970 --> 01:57:31,350 New audit committee at that time and that risk 2714 01:57:31,350 --> 01:57:33,890 assessment would begin and then there would be a 2715 01:57:33,890 --> 01:57:36,340 process for the internal audit 2716 01:57:36,460 --> 01:57:40,500 to then develop what that draft audit plan would 2717 01:57:40,500 --> 01:57:40,620 be 2718 01:57:40,620 --> 01:57:43,000 for the audit committee's consideration. 2719 01:57:43,000 --> 01:57:45,340 So it'll be subject to the audit committee's 2720 01:57:45,340 --> 01:57:45,690 approval 2721 01:57:45,690 --> 01:57:49,060 as part of the plan, but if you refer it to 2722 01:57:49,060 --> 01:57:49,160 consideration 2723 01:57:49,130 --> 01:57:52,070 of the risk assessment and internal audit plan, 2724 01:57:52,070 --> 01:57:55,170 then it can be appropriately scoped and reviewed 2725 01:57:55,170 --> 01:57:58,740 as part of where that level of risk might be 2726 01:57:58,740 --> 01:58:00,040 and where the timing might fall 2727 01:58:00,040 --> 01:58:02,320 in terms of developing that internal audit plan. 2728 01:58:02,320 --> 01:58:09,370 If that's helpful. 2729 01:58:09,370 --> 01:58:10,440 - Okay. 2730 01:58:10,440 --> 01:58:12,180 Mr. Shultez wrote down some nice things. 2731 01:58:12,180 --> 01:58:14,660 said he will massage it out of the wording's 2732 01:58:14,660 --> 01:58:15,310 exact 2733 01:58:15,310 --> 01:58:18,040 to a smart phone, had laid out for that first 2734 01:58:18,040 --> 01:58:18,200 audit 2735 01:58:18,200 --> 01:58:20,580 community and can have that information 2736 01:58:20,580 --> 01:58:23,250 when it is scheduled for the next term of counsel 2737 01:58:23,250 --> 01:58:23,350 . 2738 01:58:23,310 --> 01:58:24,700 Councillor Steeveson, the floor was yours. 2739 01:58:24,700 --> 01:58:26,800 - Okay, I'm just gonna ask one question 2740 01:58:26,800 --> 01:58:29,690 and then I'm gonna move whatever is drafted there 2741 01:58:29,690 --> 01:58:29,790 . 2742 01:58:29,690 --> 01:58:32,180 But I just wanna, through you to MNP, 2743 01:58:32,180 --> 01:58:35,690 I just wanna ask, is it even a possibility 2744 01:58:35,690 --> 01:58:38,120 for this committee, or anything's possible, 2745 01:58:38,120 --> 01:58:38,950 but do you know what I mean? 2746 01:58:38,950 --> 01:58:44,410 feasible to for us to put this in the December 2747 01:58:44,410 --> 01:58:44,700 one. 2748 01:58:44,700 --> 01:58:49,930 I'm assuming that that's just not good timing, 2749 01:58:49,930 --> 01:58:52,490 but I just gonna ask so that we know for sure 2750 01:58:52,490 --> 01:58:55,000 that we prioritize it as fast as we could. 2751 01:58:55,000 --> 01:58:57,150 - This December, 2026 December? 2752 01:58:57,150 --> 01:58:59,590 - Yeah, because that one isn't, yes. 2753 01:58:59,590 --> 01:59:01,420 Mr. Racco. 2754 01:59:01,420 --> 01:59:03,570 - Through you, Madam Chair, and thank you for the 2755 01:59:03,570 --> 01:59:05,480 question. 2756 01:59:05,480 --> 01:59:10,480 The one caution I would considering some of the 2757 01:59:10,480 --> 01:59:10,950 information 2758 01:59:10,950 --> 01:59:14,640 was provided there with regards to the scale, the 2759 01:59:14,640 --> 01:59:16,190 number of co-ops, everything like that. 2760 01:59:16,190 --> 01:59:20,140 I do feel that considering the significance of 2761 01:59:20,140 --> 01:59:23,930 this, the committee as well as everybody 2762 01:59:23,930 --> 01:59:25,970 would want to make sure that there is appropriate 2763 01:59:25,970 --> 01:59:27,730 scoping of this one to make sure that this 2764 01:59:27,730 --> 01:59:29,630 one is right. 2765 01:59:29,630 --> 01:59:32,370 And again, considering timing and whatnot, I 2766 01:59:32,370 --> 01:59:35,130 would feel, again, anything is possible. 2767 01:59:35,130 --> 01:59:36,960 I do not necessarily feel it would lead to the 2768 01:59:36,960 --> 01:59:37,780 best outcomes. 2769 01:59:37,780 --> 01:59:42,170 Thank you. I thought that was going to be the 2770 01:59:42,170 --> 01:59:44,300 answer, but there's a lot of desperate eyes on 2771 01:59:44,300 --> 01:59:44,540 this 2772 01:59:44,540 --> 01:59:46,690 And so I just wanted them to know as well that 2773 01:59:46,690 --> 01:59:48,890 they're really we're not just putting this off 2774 01:59:48,890 --> 01:59:50,810 that it really is impractical to do in 2775 01:59:50,810 --> 01:59:54,560 2026, so I'm happy to move the draft did referral 2776 01:59:54,560 --> 02:00:05,810 social as we read out roughly ish what it is 2777 02:00:05,810 --> 02:00:08,900 we heard that there was 2778 02:00:08,900 --> 02:00:11,980 16 co-ops in one and middle sex do we want the 2779 02:00:11,980 --> 02:00:17,180 middle sex one two or just the one and ones staff 2780 02:00:17,180 --> 02:00:17,880 for clarification 2781 02:00:17,880 --> 02:00:23,390 - When you said 16 were London, Mr. Mathers? 2782 02:00:23,390 --> 02:00:25,800 Ms. Datersphere? 2783 02:00:25,800 --> 02:00:27,530 Sorry, I was looking for clarification from Mr. M 2784 02:00:27,530 --> 02:00:27,860 athers 2785 02:00:27,860 --> 02:00:30,430 that the 16 co-ops, 16 were in London 2786 02:00:30,430 --> 02:00:34,050 and one was outside of London, 15 in London, 2787 02:00:34,050 --> 02:00:35,760 which-- 2788 02:00:35,760 --> 02:00:37,030 - Through the chair, 15 in London 2789 02:00:37,030 --> 02:00:39,620 and one outside of London for a total of 16. 2790 02:00:39,620 --> 02:00:41,850 - Okay, we'll stay in London. 2791 02:00:41,850 --> 02:00:43,690 - Just the London ones, okay, so the 15 co-ops in 2792 02:00:43,690 --> 02:00:46,970 London. 2793 02:00:46,970 --> 02:00:48,520 - I'll second that chair, I think. 2794 02:00:48,520 --> 02:00:51,690 - Okay, Mr. Shultez, do you want to read up-ish 2795 02:00:51,690 --> 02:00:54,920 what it is, realizing Ms. Bourbon will add in her 2796 02:00:54,920 --> 02:00:55,340 timelines 2797 02:00:55,340 --> 02:00:58,790 and a wording of things as they word them. 2798 02:00:58,790 --> 02:01:00,970 certainly through the chair to avoid over 2799 02:01:00,970 --> 02:01:01,970 specificity 2800 02:01:01,970 --> 02:01:05,310 after the communication from Council Frank dated 2801 02:01:05,310 --> 02:01:05,870 May 27th, 2802 02:01:05,870 --> 02:01:09,240 2026 be referred to future meeting of audit 2803 02:01:09,240 --> 02:01:09,340 committee 2804 02:01:09,290 --> 02:01:13,480 in Q1, 2027 for consideration as part of risk 2805 02:01:13,480 --> 02:01:16,620 assessment. 2806 02:01:16,620 --> 02:01:18,730 - Yeah, I think civic administration was gonna 2807 02:01:18,730 --> 02:01:19,090 touch it 2808 02:01:19,090 --> 02:01:20,910 first to see where it can fit to come in that 2809 02:01:20,910 --> 02:01:22,230 first meeting. 2810 02:01:22,230 --> 02:01:28,050 Okay, and then just for clarification, 2811 02:01:28,050 --> 02:01:30,240 that will be officially typed up with timelines 2812 02:01:30,240 --> 02:01:31,960 in our council package from the audit meeting 2813 02:01:31,960 --> 02:01:35,060 so we can finish verifying wording at that point 2814 02:01:35,060 --> 02:01:36,550 just 'cause we don't use e-scribe today. 2815 02:01:36,550 --> 02:01:37,510 - Okay, perfect. 2816 02:01:37,510 --> 02:01:39,910 And so it's civic administration and audit 2817 02:01:39,910 --> 02:01:41,590 committee? 2818 02:01:41,590 --> 02:01:43,850 - Yeah, they'll get it first to put in a report 2819 02:01:43,850 --> 02:01:45,570 and then that report will come to the first 2820 02:01:45,570 --> 02:01:47,800 meeting of audit 2821 02:01:47,800 --> 02:01:49,600 when the new council sits and the new committee 2822 02:01:49,600 --> 02:01:51,600 sits. 2823 02:01:51,600 --> 02:01:54,910 Okay, so Councilor Stevenson was fine with the 2824 02:01:54,910 --> 02:01:55,540 rough wording 2825 02:01:55,540 --> 02:01:56,820 that will be massaged out. 2826 02:01:56,820 --> 02:01:59,190 Councilor Cuddy was the seconder on that. 2827 02:01:59,190 --> 02:02:04,030 Okay, it is on the floor for the referral 2828 02:02:04,030 --> 02:02:08,470 attorney's committee members first. 2829 02:02:08,470 --> 02:02:09,310 Councilor Stevenson? 2830 02:02:09,310 --> 02:02:12,360 - I just think Councillor Frank for this, 2831 02:02:12,360 --> 02:02:14,140 I appreciate the attention to it. 2832 02:02:14,140 --> 02:02:16,080 On behalf of the toll puddle residents, 2833 02:02:16,080 --> 02:02:17,110 I've talked to some of them 2834 02:02:17,110 --> 02:02:18,660 and they were appreciative of this. 2835 02:02:18,660 --> 02:02:20,830 So thank you. 2836 02:02:20,830 --> 02:02:22,300 - Thank you, Councillor Frank, 2837 02:02:22,300 --> 02:02:24,560 knowing that we did something slightly different 2838 02:02:24,560 --> 02:02:26,100 based on audit committee plans 2839 02:02:26,100 --> 02:02:29,510 and ways to accommodate what this could look like 2840 02:02:29,510 --> 02:02:29,610 . 2841 02:02:29,510 --> 02:02:32,770 Would you like to speak next to it? 2842 02:02:32,770 --> 02:02:33,850 - Sure, yeah. 2843 02:02:33,850 --> 02:02:35,720 I'm just happy it is moving forward. 2844 02:02:35,720 --> 02:02:38,060 I am but a leaf in a river of bureaucracy. 2845 02:02:38,060 --> 02:02:40,120 And if this is where the river goes, 2846 02:02:40,120 --> 02:02:42,850 and I shall follow and appreciate that it will be 2847 02:02:42,850 --> 02:02:43,210 reviewed 2848 02:02:43,210 --> 02:02:47,170 in a future committee's consideration package. 2849 02:02:47,170 --> 02:02:48,930 Thanks. 2850 02:02:48,930 --> 02:02:50,350 - Thank you, Councillor Truss, 2851 02:02:50,350 --> 02:02:51,930 so you had your hand up patiently. 2852 02:02:51,930 --> 02:02:54,550 - Yes, so my thinking on this, 2853 02:02:54,550 --> 02:02:56,440 if I may address what's on the floor, 2854 02:02:56,440 --> 02:02:59,280 is I think it's important that we don't over 2855 02:02:59,280 --> 02:02:59,710 order 2856 02:02:59,710 --> 02:03:03,110 a lot of different small audits. 2857 02:03:03,110 --> 02:03:04,840 And wait, what I need to have a better 2858 02:03:04,840 --> 02:03:05,760 understanding of, 2859 02:03:05,760 --> 02:03:06,870 and I'll work on this, 2860 02:03:06,870 --> 02:03:09,400 is what's the proper size for an audit? 2861 02:03:09,400 --> 02:03:12,550 because my concern about the way this is worded, 2862 02:03:12,550 --> 02:03:14,190 and it's better now, 2863 02:03:14,190 --> 02:03:17,120 but this shouldn't be about what happened at toll 2864 02:03:17,120 --> 02:03:17,470 puddle. 2865 02:03:17,470 --> 02:03:21,370 This should be about a broader operational issue 2866 02:03:21,370 --> 02:03:25,690 about how the service manager deals with co-ops, 2867 02:03:25,690 --> 02:03:28,450 or perhaps even more broadly how the service 2868 02:03:28,450 --> 02:03:28,990 manager 2869 02:03:28,990 --> 02:03:33,660 deals with, you know, RGI units and other 2870 02:03:33,660 --> 02:03:34,240 affordable units. 2871 02:03:34,240 --> 02:03:38,500 And I think that before we order another, 2872 02:03:38,500 --> 02:03:41,530 Before we set the scope for another audit, 2873 02:03:41,530 --> 02:03:43,430 we need to think very carefully 2874 02:03:43,430 --> 02:03:46,030 about what we want the scope of that audit to be. 2875 02:03:46,030 --> 02:03:47,330 'Cause one thing I've learned today 2876 02:03:47,330 --> 02:03:49,370 is at the end of the discussion, 2877 02:03:49,370 --> 02:03:50,910 you're gonna be limited to discussing 2878 02:03:50,910 --> 02:03:53,000 what was in the scope of the audit. 2879 02:03:53,000 --> 02:03:54,780 And it might be that we need to look at some 2880 02:03:54,780 --> 02:03:55,830 broader issues 2881 02:03:55,830 --> 02:03:59,140 in terms of how the service manager deals 2882 02:03:59,140 --> 02:04:02,850 with a for low-income housing. 2883 02:04:02,850 --> 02:04:05,250 Maybe it should just be targeted to telephoto, 2884 02:04:05,250 --> 02:04:07,480 but I think the problem with targeting it too 2885 02:04:07,480 --> 02:04:08,160 narrowly 2886 02:04:08,160 --> 02:04:11,190 to one building is then it becomes a question of 2887 02:04:11,190 --> 02:04:12,530 what was done wrong in this 2888 02:04:12,530 --> 02:04:15,910 building and I think for for service review for 2889 02:04:15,910 --> 02:04:17,050 audit purposes we should 2890 02:04:17,050 --> 02:04:19,810 looking we should be looking at broader process 2891 02:04:19,810 --> 02:04:22,080 and policy questions so I was 2892 02:04:22,080 --> 02:04:24,260 not going to be able to support the way it was 2893 02:04:24,260 --> 02:04:26,350 originally drafted this is better 2894 02:04:26,350 --> 02:04:28,910 but I think it's still is going to need some more 2895 02:04:28,910 --> 02:04:30,260 work and I will address that 2896 02:04:30,260 --> 02:04:35,960 further at council thank you sir if you could 2897 02:04:35,960 --> 02:04:36,900 take the chair I'll make a brief 2898 02:04:36,900 --> 02:04:39,900 comment? Okay, thank you. I've got the chair. Go 2899 02:04:39,900 --> 02:04:44,200 ahead. Thank you. I'll be interested in this 2900 02:04:44,200 --> 02:04:46,890 one when it comes back. I'm not sure who will be 2901 02:04:46,890 --> 02:04:49,550 in these chairs when it comes back to the next 2902 02:04:49,550 --> 02:04:52,290 round of audit next term of council. I was 2903 02:04:52,290 --> 02:04:57,560 appreciating Councillor Frank's last three words 2904 02:04:57,560 --> 02:04:59,940 of the solution orientated focus. For me, it 2905 02:04:59,940 --> 02:05:02,720 really is about best practices and ways to align 2906 02:05:03,440 --> 02:05:06,810 what people can expect across the housing coops 2907 02:05:06,810 --> 02:05:09,270 just in the 2908 02:05:09,270 --> 02:05:12,790 standards based on what building they built move 2909 02:05:12,790 --> 02:05:13,000 into 2910 02:05:13,000 --> 02:05:14,730 realizing something might move around our pet 2911 02:05:14,730 --> 02:05:15,290 experience in 2912 02:05:15,290 --> 02:05:19,020 different ones that we can build best practices 2913 02:05:19,020 --> 02:05:19,330 for their 2914 02:05:19,330 --> 02:05:26,170 communities governance and board in governance 2915 02:05:26,170 --> 02:05:26,480 and board 2916 02:05:26,480 --> 02:05:30,230 training I know we've already done some some work 2917 02:05:30,230 --> 02:05:30,880 towards those 2918 02:05:30,880 --> 02:05:33,890 things and and we talked about the RGI's and 2919 02:05:33,890 --> 02:05:34,330 other things that 2920 02:05:34,330 --> 02:05:36,740 at Mr. Mather's department, Mr. Felberg's working 2921 02:05:36,740 --> 02:05:36,930 on 2922 02:05:36,930 --> 02:05:38,200 in different training. 2923 02:05:38,200 --> 02:05:41,300 I think this could also be, 2924 02:05:41,300 --> 02:05:44,530 as much as we've learned from some past things, 2925 02:05:44,530 --> 02:05:46,200 a good story about ways we're changing going 2926 02:05:46,200 --> 02:05:46,510 forward 2927 02:05:46,510 --> 02:05:51,280 in the communities being strong amongst 2928 02:05:51,280 --> 02:05:51,850 themselves as well. 2929 02:05:51,850 --> 02:05:56,020 And I'm proud of where they're living in some 2930 02:05:56,020 --> 02:05:56,400 cases. 2931 02:05:56,400 --> 02:05:58,190 I think that's also a story that sometimes gets 2932 02:05:58,190 --> 02:05:59,740 overlooked 2933 02:05:59,740 --> 02:06:05,980 to really looking forward to when this comes back 2934 02:06:05,980 --> 02:06:09,430 of what actually is the recommended scope based 2935 02:06:09,430 --> 02:06:13,900 in the letter and what actually is possible, 2936 02:06:13,900 --> 02:06:15,570 realizing some information not might not be 2937 02:06:15,570 --> 02:06:16,000 available 2938 02:06:16,000 --> 02:06:18,650 across the board or some might just not have 2939 02:06:18,650 --> 02:06:20,070 to not tracking in certain ways. 2940 02:06:20,070 --> 02:06:23,520 So, interest in that, I'll leave my comments 2941 02:06:23,520 --> 02:06:24,680 there. 2942 02:06:24,680 --> 02:06:28,520 Councillor Stevenson. 2943 02:06:28,520 --> 02:06:30,040 - Thank you, I'll return the chair to you 2944 02:06:30,040 --> 02:06:31,830 and I would just like to make a couple of final 2945 02:06:31,830 --> 02:06:32,870 comments. 2946 02:06:32,870 --> 02:06:35,600 - Okay, I'll call it closing comments, Councillor 2947 02:06:35,600 --> 02:06:36,180 Stevenson. 2948 02:06:36,180 --> 02:06:37,230 - Okay, thanks. 2949 02:06:37,230 --> 02:06:43,470 Yeah, I think for sure there's lots of, 2950 02:06:43,470 --> 02:06:46,030 with toll pedal, they have, 2951 02:06:46,030 --> 02:06:47,690 and I don't know if it's more unique 2952 02:06:47,690 --> 02:06:49,710 and some of the other ones, but it's a very high 2953 02:06:49,710 --> 02:06:51,900 RGI unit count. 2954 02:06:51,900 --> 02:06:53,900 I can't remember exactly, but it's almost all of 2955 02:06:53,900 --> 02:06:54,790 them. 2956 02:06:54,790 --> 02:06:58,150 They have very little control over who goes into 2957 02:06:58,150 --> 02:06:58,860 those units. 2958 02:06:58,860 --> 02:07:01,610 They've had the same problems that were happening 2959 02:07:01,610 --> 02:07:03,040 at 122 baseline. 2960 02:07:03,040 --> 02:07:05,830 They don't have access to hardening the building 2961 02:07:05,830 --> 02:07:07,300 and increasing the budgets. 2962 02:07:07,300 --> 02:07:10,250 And we've got co-ops out there, run by members 2963 02:07:10,250 --> 02:07:12,000 who are doing the best that they can. 2964 02:07:12,000 --> 02:07:15,390 Some maybe need help, some maybe are doing what 2965 02:07:15,390 --> 02:07:16,420 they can, 2966 02:07:16,420 --> 02:07:18,890 but this has been a cry for help. 2967 02:07:18,890 --> 02:07:20,230 - Councilor, just on the referral, keep it tight, 2968 02:07:20,230 --> 02:07:21,380 please. 2969 02:07:21,380 --> 02:07:23,720 - And so I appreciate the referral 2970 02:07:23,720 --> 02:07:27,760 and I appreciate that an audit might be able 2971 02:07:27,760 --> 02:07:30,500 to contribute solution oriented stuff. 2972 02:07:30,500 --> 02:07:34,180 How can we help what is needed in order to ensure 2973 02:07:34,180 --> 02:07:36,040 that we're getting what we all want? 2974 02:07:36,040 --> 02:07:38,690 I know everyone here wants to provide safe, 2975 02:07:38,690 --> 02:07:41,560 affordable housing and it's at risk. 2976 02:07:41,560 --> 02:07:43,580 It is very much at risk right now. 2977 02:07:43,580 --> 02:07:46,940 And so this extra tool through Councillor Frank's 2978 02:07:46,940 --> 02:07:47,490 motion here 2979 02:07:47,490 --> 02:07:48,720 is something that the next council 2980 02:07:48,720 --> 02:07:52,010 might be able to put into action. 2981 02:07:52,010 --> 02:07:53,000 - Thank you. 2982 02:07:53,000 --> 02:07:54,670 I have no comments online, none. 2983 02:07:54,670 --> 02:07:57,060 Chambers, this is for a receipt of the 2984 02:07:57,060 --> 02:07:57,610 correspondence 2985 02:07:57,610 --> 02:07:58,850 from Councillor Frank 2986 02:07:58,850 --> 02:08:01,390 and referring to civic administration 2987 02:08:01,390 --> 02:08:02,820 for they can bring it back with the risk 2988 02:08:02,820 --> 02:08:03,810 management stuff 2989 02:08:03,810 --> 02:08:06,430 for audit come the next term of council. 2990 02:08:06,430 --> 02:08:09,020 Show of hands of all in favor. 2991 02:08:09,020 --> 02:08:10,730 - Motion carries. 2992 02:08:10,730 --> 02:08:12,260 - Thank you, that just poses of our items for 2993 02:08:12,260 --> 02:08:12,640 direction 2994 02:08:12,640 --> 02:08:14,030 deferred matters additional business. 2995 02:08:14,030 --> 02:08:15,620 There is none, confidential session. 2996 02:08:15,620 --> 02:08:18,360 We do have one item as it's outlined on the 2997 02:08:18,360 --> 02:08:19,390 public agenda 2998 02:08:19,390 --> 02:08:22,050 for personal matters, identify individuals, 2999 02:08:22,050 --> 02:08:25,160 being 6.1, I will need a motion to go in close, 3000 02:08:25,160 --> 02:08:27,390 moved by Councillor Cuddy, second by myself, 3001 02:08:27,390 --> 02:08:29,050 show of hands of all in favor of confidential 3002 02:08:29,050 --> 02:08:30,070 session. 3003 02:08:30,070 --> 02:08:31,040 - Motion carries. 3004 02:08:31,040 --> 02:08:32,670 - Okay, one moment as we switch from chairs 3005 02:08:32,670 --> 02:12:42,580 around. 3006 02:12:42,580 --> 02:12:44,400 Thank you, we're now back in the open session. 3007 02:12:44,400 --> 02:12:46,840 If I can turn it over to Councillor Stevenson 3008 02:12:46,840 --> 02:12:49,570 to report out on IM 6.1, for which we want in 3009 02:12:49,570 --> 02:12:51,080 camera. 3010 02:12:51,080 --> 02:12:53,140 - Thank you, yes, I've got that on the 3011 02:12:53,140 --> 02:12:53,830 recommendation 3012 02:12:53,830 --> 02:12:56,220 of the deputy city manager finance supports 3013 02:12:56,220 --> 02:12:58,290 with the concurrence of the city manager, 3014 02:12:58,290 --> 02:12:59,840 the following actions be taken 3015 02:12:59,840 --> 02:13:01,870 with respect to the appointment of an outsourced 3016 02:13:01,870 --> 02:13:02,940 internal auditor 3017 02:13:02,940 --> 02:13:08,790 for a quest for proposal, RFP 2026-062 internal 3018 02:13:08,790 --> 02:13:10,040 audit services. 3019 02:13:10,040 --> 02:13:13,550 A, the firm of MNP LLP be appointed as the 3020 02:13:13,550 --> 02:13:14,240 preferred firm 3021 02:13:14,240 --> 02:13:16,520 for the provision of internal audit services 3022 02:13:16,520 --> 02:13:19,270 for a period of four years beginning January 1st, 3023 02:13:19,270 --> 02:13:20,300 2027, 3024 02:13:20,300 --> 02:13:23,680 plus the option to renew for one additional one- 3025 02:13:23,680 --> 02:13:24,410 year term. 3026 02:13:24,410 --> 02:13:26,410 B, the civic administration be authorized 3027 02:13:26,410 --> 02:13:28,590 to undertake all the administrative acts that are 3028 02:13:28,590 --> 02:13:29,320 necessary 3029 02:13:29,320 --> 02:13:30,750 in connection with this contract. 3030 02:13:30,750 --> 02:13:33,580 C, approval hereby given be conditional 3031 02:13:33,580 --> 02:13:35,800 upon the corporation entering into a formal 3032 02:13:35,800 --> 02:13:36,540 contract, 3033 02:13:36,540 --> 02:13:39,090 relating to the subject matter of this approval. 3034 02:13:39,090 --> 02:13:41,440 And D, the mayor and city clerk be authorized 3035 02:13:41,440 --> 02:13:47,160 to execute the agreement in C above. 3036 02:13:47,160 --> 02:13:48,640 - Mr. Stevenson, you're moving that as you read 3037 02:13:48,640 --> 02:13:48,890 it? 3038 02:13:48,890 --> 02:13:50,180 - I am moving that. 3039 02:13:50,180 --> 02:13:56,930 - Seconder, Councillor Cutty, any debate? 3040 02:13:56,930 --> 02:13:59,570 - No, thank you to all those who applied. 3041 02:13:59,570 --> 02:14:02,420 - So they, hey, call on the question then. 3042 02:14:02,420 --> 02:14:04,550 All in favor by a show of hands. 3043 02:14:04,550 --> 02:14:06,720 - Motion carries. 3044 02:14:06,720 --> 02:14:08,800 - Thank you, that concludes the formal agenda. 3045 02:14:08,800 --> 02:14:10,650 bringing us to a German, a motion to a German 3046 02:14:10,650 --> 02:14:11,210 would be moved by 3047 02:14:11,210 --> 02:14:13,370 Councillor Cuddy seconded by Councillor Stevenson 3048 02:14:13,370 --> 02:14:13,770 and show a 3049 02:14:13,770 --> 02:14:17,200 hands motion carries. Thank you. We're adjourned.