1 00:18:14,110 --> 00:18:22,410 - Okay, thank you, please be seated. 2 00:18:22,410 --> 00:18:25,990 Okay, colleagues, welcome to the sixth meeting 3 00:18:25,990 --> 00:18:27,300 of municipal council. 4 00:18:27,300 --> 00:18:29,840 I'll just note if you're in council chambers, 5 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:34,050 Councillors McAllister, Pribble, Stevenson, Hillier, 6 00:18:34,050 --> 00:18:38,500 and Ploza are online, as well as members 7 00:18:38,500 --> 00:18:39,400 who have joined us today. 8 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,320 I believe Councillor Troceau will be joining us shortly. 9 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:46,030 I wanna start with the land acknowledgement. 10 00:18:46,030 --> 00:18:47,290 We acknowledge that we are gathered today 11 00:18:47,290 --> 00:18:48,910 on the traditional lands of the Anishinaabe, 12 00:18:48,910 --> 00:18:52,080 Haudenosaunee, Lene Peiwok, and Haudenosaunee, peoples. 13 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,030 We honor respect the history, languages, and culture 14 00:18:54,030 --> 00:18:55,170 of the diverse indigenous people 15 00:18:55,170 --> 00:18:56,900 who call this territory home. 16 00:18:56,900 --> 00:18:58,020 We acknowledge all of the treaties 17 00:18:58,020 --> 00:18:59,380 that are specific to this area. 18 00:18:59,380 --> 00:19:01,960 Two Row Wampum Belt Treaty of the Haudenosaunee Confederacy, 19 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,490 Silver Covenant Chain, Beaver Hunting Grounds 20 00:19:04,490 --> 00:19:07,550 of the Haudenosaunee Nan Fan Treaty of 1701, 21 00:19:07,550 --> 00:19:11,790 and McKee Treaty of 1790, London Township Treaty of 1796, 22 00:19:11,790 --> 00:19:15,200 the Huron Track Treaty of 1827 with the Anishinaabe, 23 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,040 and the Dish With One Spoon Covenant Wampum 24 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,200 of the Anishinaabe and Haudenosaunee. 25 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:20,700 Three indigenous nations that are neighbors 26 00:19:20,700 --> 00:19:22,850 to London are the Chippewaas of the Thames First Nation, 27 00:19:22,850 --> 00:19:26,000 Oneida Nation of the Thames, and Muncie Delaware Nation 28 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:27,630 who all continue to live as sovereign nations 29 00:19:27,630 --> 00:19:33,370 with individual and unique languages, cultures, and customs. 30 00:19:33,370 --> 00:19:34,530 The City of London is also committed 31 00:19:34,530 --> 00:19:37,430 to making every effort to provide alternate formats 32 00:19:37,430 --> 00:19:40,310 and communication supports for meetings upon request. 33 00:19:40,310 --> 00:19:41,550 To make a request specific to this meeting, 34 00:19:41,550 --> 00:19:45,070 you can contact Council Agenda, London.ca, 35 00:19:45,070 --> 00:19:50,550 or 519-661-2489 Extension-2425. 36 00:19:57,210 --> 00:20:00,330 And onto the O Canada singer. 37 00:20:00,330 --> 00:20:05,290 Josh Tri is a London-based multi-instrumentalist, 38 00:20:05,290 --> 00:20:07,490 music director and tour manager. 39 00:20:07,490 --> 00:20:10,660 His work routinely takes him across North America, 40 00:20:10,660 --> 00:20:15,110 working with acts like Nate Holler, Sasha, 41 00:20:15,110 --> 00:20:17,400 Texas King, and Tyler Shaw. 42 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:19,130 Please rise and join me in welcoming Josh 43 00:20:19,130 --> 00:20:30,610 who will now be performing the National Anthem for us. 44 00:20:30,610 --> 00:20:35,880 ♪ Canada, our home and native land ♪ 45 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:43,110 ♪ True patriot love in all of us come in ♪ 46 00:20:43,110 --> 00:20:49,910 ♪ With glowing hearts we see thee rise ♪ 47 00:20:49,910 --> 00:20:54,090 ♪ The true nor strong and free ♪ 48 00:20:54,090 --> 00:20:58,500 ♪ From foreign white O Canada ♪ 49 00:20:58,500 --> 00:21:03,440 ♪ We stand on guard for thee ♪ 50 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:09,560 ♪ God keep our land glorious and free ♪ 51 00:21:12,020 --> 00:21:17,010 ♪ O Canada, we stand on guard for thee ♪ 52 00:21:17,010 --> 00:21:24,810 ♪ O Canada, we stand on guard for thee ♪ 53 00:21:24,810 --> 00:22:06,190 Okay, that brings us to disclosures of pecuniary interest. 54 00:22:06,190 --> 00:22:12,260 I look for any disclosures the colleagues might have today. 55 00:22:12,260 --> 00:22:16,170 Seeing none in chambers, I don't see any online. 56 00:22:16,170 --> 00:22:18,510 All right, we'll turn it to recognitions. 57 00:22:18,510 --> 00:22:24,480 There are two, and I'm gonna start with Council Faire. 58 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,570 You're up first. 59 00:22:27,570 --> 00:22:29,360 Thank you, Mayor. 60 00:22:29,360 --> 00:22:31,050 I just wanted to make a recognition 61 00:22:31,050 --> 00:22:35,610 for a very special Londoner and Canadian, Jeremy Hanson. 62 00:22:35,610 --> 00:22:37,590 I wanted to just take the moment to recognize, you know, 63 00:22:37,590 --> 00:22:39,960 someone who comes from the city 64 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,410 and represents, you know, the very best of our city 65 00:22:42,410 --> 00:22:44,150 and our country. 66 00:22:44,150 --> 00:22:45,680 Jeremy was born right here in London, 67 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:47,730 raised just outside of our city. 68 00:22:47,730 --> 00:22:51,740 He built a career through discipline, service, excellence 69 00:22:51,740 --> 00:22:54,970 from the Arcadettes in London, which I had my own stint in, 70 00:22:54,970 --> 00:22:57,450 to becoming a Royal Canadian Air Force fighter pilot, 71 00:22:57,450 --> 00:23:02,830 which I didn't do, I wish I did, glasses, 72 00:23:02,830 --> 00:23:04,720 at the time they didn't allow that, 73 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,670 to now representing Canada on the world stage 74 00:23:07,670 --> 00:23:09,600 as an astronaut. 75 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:13,020 In the coming days, maybe tomorrow, maybe tomorrow to the six. 76 00:23:13,020 --> 00:23:14,880 That's the launch window. 77 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,390 He's gonna take part in the Artemis II mission. 78 00:23:17,390 --> 00:23:19,780 It's gonna be a truly historic moment. 79 00:23:19,780 --> 00:23:22,450 This will be the first time humans travel back to the moon 80 00:23:22,450 --> 00:23:27,300 in over 50 years since the Apollo era in the early 1970s. 81 00:23:27,300 --> 00:23:30,790 And more specifically, this is the first crewed mission 82 00:23:30,790 --> 00:23:32,660 since 1972. 83 00:23:32,660 --> 00:23:35,520 It is a major step in setting the stage for humanity, 84 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,490 once again, to walk on the lunar surface 85 00:23:38,490 --> 00:23:41,080 after decades being decades away. 86 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:45,280 And to push further and to deep space exploration, 87 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,700 something that we should have been working on ever since then, 88 00:23:47,700 --> 00:23:50,480 but that's another conversation. 89 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,530 So like many, I've been following the Artemis program 90 00:23:52,530 --> 00:23:53,590 very closely for years. 91 00:23:53,590 --> 00:23:55,210 I've been waiting for this my entire life 92 00:23:55,210 --> 00:23:58,260 to go back to the moon or at least get close to it. 93 00:23:58,260 --> 00:24:00,240 So I'm very excited. 94 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:05,090 And I am very excited to see this stage now 95 00:24:05,090 --> 00:24:06,780 and to see a Canadian, and more importantly, 96 00:24:06,780 --> 00:24:10,000 someone from London take part in this. 97 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,200 It's something we should all take pride in. 98 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,490 So it is an honor for Canada. 99 00:24:14,490 --> 00:24:17,220 And for those who have spent our entire lives 100 00:24:17,220 --> 00:24:20,310 watching space exploration and hoping to see humanity 101 00:24:20,310 --> 00:24:23,780 return to the moon in this moment is a great deal. 102 00:24:23,780 --> 00:24:28,130 So we know this mission has not been without its challenges. 103 00:24:28,130 --> 00:24:31,430 The launch date was delayed a couple months ago. 104 00:24:31,430 --> 00:24:33,080 I was excited for that, but I have 105 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,080 faith that we're going to be going either tomorrow 106 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,220 or in the next couple of days. 107 00:24:37,220 --> 00:24:40,640 So for the moment right now in front of us and for Canada 108 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,430 and from London, this is a milestone. 109 00:24:43,430 --> 00:24:45,180 And it's going to be making history. 110 00:24:45,180 --> 00:24:46,330 And it's exciting stuff. 111 00:24:46,330 --> 00:24:50,740 So on behalf of Council and behalf of Canada 112 00:24:50,740 --> 00:24:52,330 and on behalf of us in London, we 113 00:24:52,330 --> 00:24:55,140 wish Jeremy a very good luck. 114 00:24:55,140 --> 00:24:56,410 And we're there with you. 115 00:24:56,410 --> 00:24:58,740 We're rooting for you. 116 00:24:58,740 --> 00:24:59,730 Thanks, great recognition. 117 00:24:59,730 --> 00:25:01,910 And I don't usually comment on recognitions, 118 00:25:01,910 --> 00:25:05,990 but I'll say, Councillor Ferra, we share a lifelong interest 119 00:25:05,990 --> 00:25:07,460 in space and space exploration. 120 00:25:07,460 --> 00:25:09,910 I remember sitting on the couch in the '80s, 121 00:25:09,910 --> 00:25:11,720 watching the space shuttle launch with my dad. 122 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:16,070 And it's kind of an amazing moment for this region 123 00:25:16,070 --> 00:25:20,420 to have someone who grew up in our region go further 124 00:25:20,420 --> 00:25:21,670 than humans have ever gone. 125 00:25:21,670 --> 00:25:24,550 Like this mission will have humans go further into space 126 00:25:24,550 --> 00:25:25,510 than have ever gone before. 127 00:25:25,510 --> 00:25:27,220 They won't land on the moon, but they're going to, 128 00:25:27,220 --> 00:25:29,840 as they orbit the moon, travel further away from the Earth 129 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:30,630 than we've ever been. 130 00:25:30,630 --> 00:25:32,060 So it's quite a moment. 131 00:25:32,060 --> 00:25:34,970 And it'll be something really, really amazing 132 00:25:34,970 --> 00:25:37,350 to watch over the coming days. 133 00:25:37,350 --> 00:25:42,350 I have Councillor Vameer, we're going to next. 134 00:25:42,350 --> 00:25:43,270 Thank you, Mayor. 135 00:25:43,270 --> 00:25:50,010 I'd like to recognize a true London gem, Adventures 136 00:25:50,010 --> 00:25:51,640 on Wonderland. 137 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,650 For 26 years, Adventures of Wonderland 138 00:25:54,650 --> 00:26:02,750 has provided countless, countless young people 139 00:26:02,750 --> 00:26:05,660 from the London area, their parents and grandparents 140 00:26:05,660 --> 00:26:09,080 and their caregivers an experience of joy, 141 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:13,510 experience of fun, experience of learning. 142 00:26:13,510 --> 00:26:21,340 And this was founded and was guided by Barb Pragia 143 00:26:21,340 --> 00:26:26,740 and through Barb's guidance. 144 00:26:26,740 --> 00:26:32,030 Many of those children who got to have all that fun 145 00:26:32,030 --> 00:26:37,280 got their all-important first job at Adventures. 146 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:42,340 And many still of these children, from the earlier years, 147 00:26:42,340 --> 00:26:45,700 having all this fun and creativity 148 00:26:45,700 --> 00:26:47,560 more recently returned to Adventures 149 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,000 with their own children. 150 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:57,810 This place has had a profound impact on London, situated, 151 00:26:57,810 --> 00:27:01,670 of course, as most good things are in Ward 10. 152 00:27:01,670 --> 00:27:05,890 It's a place that we celebrate. 153 00:27:05,890 --> 00:27:07,520 And Barb, we wish you all the best, 154 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,270 and we thank you for the memories 155 00:27:10,270 --> 00:27:12,980 and all the best going forward. 156 00:27:12,980 --> 00:27:14,800 Thank you, Mayor. 157 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:16,380 Thanks, and Councillor Cudi asked 158 00:27:16,380 --> 00:27:18,200 to add recognition as well there, 159 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:19,750 just in the last minute, so go ahead, Councillor. 160 00:27:19,750 --> 00:27:22,000 Thank you, Your Worship, and through you. 161 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,190 I'd like to recognize my colleague 162 00:27:24,190 --> 00:27:28,070 from the Upper Thames River Conservation Authority Board, 163 00:27:28,070 --> 00:27:32,530 Councillor Hugh McDermott, Hugh is Deputy Mayor 164 00:27:32,530 --> 00:27:36,720 of Perth East Council and Your Worship. 165 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,690 If you ask me to point out Perth East on a map, 166 00:27:39,690 --> 00:27:43,590 I probably couldn't do it, but it's in the Stratford area. 167 00:27:43,590 --> 00:27:46,650 I'm sure you would probably know where it is, Your Worship. 168 00:27:46,650 --> 00:27:49,640 But Deputy Mayor McDermott has been on council 169 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:54,570 from 2010 to 2014, and then again from 2000 170 00:27:54,570 --> 00:27:59,630 to 2018 to present day as Deputy Mayor. 171 00:27:59,630 --> 00:28:03,030 Hugh lives on the family farm that's been in the family 172 00:28:03,030 --> 00:28:06,620 since 1837. 173 00:28:06,620 --> 00:28:08,670 Hugh, my family's been in here since 1816, 174 00:28:08,670 --> 00:28:11,610 so we're close, but I'm not on the family farm anymore, 175 00:28:11,610 --> 00:28:15,270 but colleagues, please join me in the welcoming 176 00:28:15,270 --> 00:28:18,020 Deputy Mayor McDermott to our council today. 177 00:28:18,020 --> 00:28:20,390 Thank you, Your Worship. 178 00:28:20,390 --> 00:28:21,220 Thanks for being here. 179 00:28:21,220 --> 00:28:23,150 If you didn't get enough of your own council meetings, 180 00:28:23,150 --> 00:28:24,970 you wanted to pick up some in London, 181 00:28:24,970 --> 00:28:26,310 so glad you could be here. 182 00:28:26,310 --> 00:28:33,250 And yeah, we'll see if you think that at the end of the night. 183 00:28:33,250 --> 00:28:34,640 OK, so that's it for recognitions. 184 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,050 Really appreciate colleagues with those. 185 00:28:38,050 --> 00:28:39,440 We have a review of confidential matters 186 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:40,240 to be considered in public. 187 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:41,430 We have none. 188 00:28:41,430 --> 00:28:44,960 We have a counseling closed session, which includes four items. 189 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:46,490 We're going to use Committee Room 5, 190 00:28:46,490 --> 00:28:49,090 but I need a motion to go into closed session first. 191 00:28:49,090 --> 00:28:52,570 Councillor Hopkins, seconded by Councillor Van Mirbergen. 192 00:28:52,570 --> 00:28:54,330 Any discussion? 193 00:28:54,330 --> 00:28:56,130 OK, we'll open the vote to go into closed session. 194 00:28:56,130 --> 00:29:11,570 Councillor Peruzza votes, yes. 195 00:29:11,570 --> 00:29:15,600 No to thank you. 196 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:20,860 Councillor Hopkins votes, yes. 197 00:29:20,860 --> 00:29:23,050 No to thank you for closing the vote. 198 00:29:23,050 --> 00:29:24,600 Motion carries 15 to 0. 199 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,030 OK, so we'll be going to Committee Room 5 for the public. 200 00:29:27,030 --> 00:29:27,970 We'll be back shortly. 201 00:29:27,970 --> 00:41:23,370 OK, thank you. 202 00:41:23,370 --> 00:41:24,810 Please be seated. 203 00:41:24,810 --> 00:41:29,940 OK, that completes our in-camera session. 204 00:41:29,940 --> 00:41:32,960 We'll have a report out on that later. 205 00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:34,660 We're on to item 5, which is confirmation 206 00:41:34,660 --> 00:41:36,770 and signing of the minutes from previous meetings. 207 00:41:36,770 --> 00:41:39,440 We have the fourth meeting, which was March 3rd 208 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,480 and the fifth special meeting, which was March 13th. 209 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,500 Moved by Councillor Van Mirbergen. 210 00:41:45,500 --> 00:41:49,360 I'll second it. 211 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:50,530 OK, so those are on the floor. 212 00:41:50,530 --> 00:41:52,090 Any discussion on the minutes? 213 00:41:52,090 --> 00:41:55,660 OK, seeing none, we'll open that for voting. 214 00:41:55,660 --> 00:42:14,770 Councillor Peruzza, seconded by Councillor Hopkins. 215 00:42:14,770 --> 00:42:19,280 I vote yes. 216 00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:20,520 No to thank you for closing the vote. 217 00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:22,470 Motion carries 15 to 0. 218 00:42:22,470 --> 00:42:27,190 OK, we have a number of communications 219 00:42:27,190 --> 00:42:30,520 and petitions, seven different groupings. 220 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:32,980 We have a motion consolidated to refer them all 221 00:42:32,980 --> 00:42:34,750 to their relevant points in the agenda. 222 00:42:34,750 --> 00:42:38,030 Councillor Ferrer is willing to move that. 223 00:42:38,030 --> 00:42:40,410 And Councillor Cudi is willing to second it. 224 00:42:40,410 --> 00:42:42,330 OK, any discussion on moving those items 225 00:42:42,330 --> 00:42:43,930 to the relevant parts of the agenda? 226 00:42:43,930 --> 00:42:47,530 No? OK, we'll open that for voting. 227 00:42:47,530 --> 00:42:59,130 Councillor Peruzza votes yes. 228 00:42:59,130 --> 00:43:07,770 Interval of Councillor Hopkins. 229 00:43:07,770 --> 00:43:09,150 I vote yes. 230 00:43:09,150 --> 00:43:10,670 No to thank you for closing the vote. 231 00:43:10,670 --> 00:43:13,340 Motion carries 15 to 0. 232 00:43:13,340 --> 00:43:17,430 OK, item 7 is motion, which notes was given. 233 00:43:17,430 --> 00:43:20,150 We have none, which means we're on to the reports section 234 00:43:20,150 --> 00:43:20,660 of the agenda. 235 00:43:20,660 --> 00:43:24,580 And the first one up is Community and Protective Services 236 00:43:24,580 --> 00:43:25,370 Committee. 237 00:43:25,370 --> 00:43:28,410 Councillor ramen, I will let you present the report. 238 00:43:28,410 --> 00:43:29,680 Thank you, and through you, Mayor, 239 00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,740 I'll look to put the fourth report of Community and Protective 240 00:43:32,740 --> 00:43:36,470 Services Committee of a number of items that have been pulled. 241 00:43:36,470 --> 00:43:40,400 I would like to put items 1, 2, 3-- 242 00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:47,510 or sorry, I would like to put items 1, 2, and 3 on the floor, 243 00:43:47,510 --> 00:43:49,910 making sure I get the numbers right. 244 00:43:49,910 --> 00:43:54,800 6, 8, 10, and 11, unless I hear from somebody 245 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:59,070 that they want to need those pulled. 246 00:43:59,070 --> 00:44:04,090 OK, so Councillor ramen is trying 247 00:44:04,090 --> 00:44:09,060 to do 1, 2, 3, 6, 8, 10, and 11. 248 00:44:09,060 --> 00:44:16,830 Does anybody want those dealt with separately? 249 00:44:16,830 --> 00:44:20,140 We'll see anybody, so I'll let you make that motion. 250 00:44:20,140 --> 00:44:22,880 Thank you, I'll put that on the floor. 251 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:33,650 OK, so we have 1, 2, 3, 6, 10, and 11, and 8. 252 00:44:33,650 --> 00:44:37,200 OK, all right, any discussion or comments on those items 253 00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:44,000 that are before us? 254 00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:49,010 Seeing none, then, we'll open that for voting. 255 00:44:49,010 --> 00:44:59,280 Councillor Pribble votes yes. 256 00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:05,500 Closing the vote, motion carries 15 to 0. 257 00:45:05,500 --> 00:45:06,320 Thank you. 258 00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:08,570 I will look to put item 4 on the floor, please. 259 00:45:08,570 --> 00:45:11,260 So that's the amendment to the Parks and Recreation Area 260 00:45:11,260 --> 00:45:14,310 by-law PR2 related to bill number 141. 261 00:45:14,310 --> 00:45:17,070 All right, so that's on the floor by the chair. 262 00:45:17,070 --> 00:45:18,200 I'll look for any discussion. 263 00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:19,860 I see Councillor Stevenson online. 264 00:45:19,860 --> 00:45:21,510 You can go ahead. 265 00:45:21,510 --> 00:45:23,390 Thank you, yes, I've got a referral 266 00:45:23,390 --> 00:45:26,350 that I've circulated to Council and with the clerk's office. 267 00:45:26,350 --> 00:45:29,880 I can read it out if you like. 268 00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,900 Yes, if you could read it out, that would be great. 269 00:45:32,900 --> 00:45:36,050 OK, the staff report dated March 9, 2026 270 00:45:36,050 --> 00:45:37,970 from the deputy city manager, neighborhood, 271 00:45:37,970 --> 00:45:41,070 and community-wide services regarding proposed amendments 272 00:45:41,070 --> 00:45:45,620 to by-law PR2, being the Parks and Recreation Area by-law, 273 00:45:45,620 --> 00:45:49,010 be referred to the broader review of the Parks and Recreation 274 00:45:49,010 --> 00:45:53,670 Area by-law PR2 scheduled for 2026, 2027, 275 00:45:53,670 --> 00:45:56,940 and be considered as part of that comprehensive review 276 00:45:56,940 --> 00:45:57,930 process. 277 00:45:57,930 --> 00:46:02,740 And I believe I have a secondary and Councillor Hillier. 278 00:46:02,740 --> 00:46:05,650 I see Councillor Hillier confirming a second. 279 00:46:05,650 --> 00:46:11,830 OK, so that is now a referral on the floor. 280 00:46:11,830 --> 00:46:13,130 I'll introduce it. 281 00:46:13,130 --> 00:46:15,320 Yep, I'm just making sure we get it up on the screen. 282 00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:18,630 So people can see it should be up now. 283 00:46:18,630 --> 00:46:20,700 So yes, if you want to go ahead and speak to it, 284 00:46:20,700 --> 00:46:22,030 that'd be great. 285 00:46:22,030 --> 00:46:24,670 Thank you, yes, this was a change to the age 286 00:46:24,670 --> 00:46:27,300 that caregivers, parents, and others 287 00:46:27,300 --> 00:46:30,860 were able to bring minor children into the change rooms 288 00:46:30,860 --> 00:46:33,830 and the washrooms in our recreational facilities. 289 00:46:33,830 --> 00:46:38,370 And I believe the change was going from 6 and under to 10 290 00:46:38,370 --> 00:46:39,370 and under. 291 00:46:39,370 --> 00:46:43,150 When I posted this on social media and asked for some feedback, 292 00:46:43,150 --> 00:46:45,190 there was a lot of interest in this 293 00:46:45,190 --> 00:46:47,980 and a lot of concern, actually, in the change. 294 00:46:47,980 --> 00:46:50,490 So given that it's not an urgent issue 295 00:46:50,490 --> 00:46:52,520 and that we're doing a formal review 296 00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:55,750 that's going to include a public participation meeting 297 00:46:55,750 --> 00:46:57,860 at some point in the future, I wanted 298 00:46:57,860 --> 00:47:00,700 to bring forward this referral, hoping 299 00:47:00,700 --> 00:47:03,650 that my colleagues would support in allowing the public to have 300 00:47:03,650 --> 00:47:07,860 a say in this important issue, and that we make it part 301 00:47:07,860 --> 00:47:11,850 of a comprehensive review and give the public an opportunity 302 00:47:11,850 --> 00:47:14,970 for input into something that's going to affect them 303 00:47:14,970 --> 00:47:18,310 and their children. 304 00:47:18,310 --> 00:47:21,560 OK, so on the referral, I'll look for speakers. 305 00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:23,470 Councillor Trossal. 306 00:47:23,470 --> 00:47:27,740 I'm just curious to the chair, to the maker 307 00:47:27,740 --> 00:47:30,510 of the referral motion. 308 00:47:30,510 --> 00:47:35,740 In terms of the concerns, we did have this come up 309 00:47:35,740 --> 00:47:36,210 at committee. 310 00:47:36,210 --> 00:47:41,290 I don't recall anybody appearing at the committee. 311 00:47:41,290 --> 00:47:45,040 Or am I wrong about that? 312 00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:49,890 Yeah, so I'm just wondering why we're doing a referral request. 313 00:47:49,890 --> 00:47:51,280 So Councillor, just let me stop you. 314 00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:54,860 So I would say the committee chair can answer 315 00:47:54,860 --> 00:47:56,840 whether there was any delegations at the committee, 316 00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:57,990 and I'll have heard you that in a sec. 317 00:47:57,990 --> 00:48:00,360 But also, I think public feedback comes in many ways. 318 00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:02,890 So it might have come from the committee. 319 00:48:02,890 --> 00:48:04,640 It could have come directly to different Councillors. 320 00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:08,600 So I don't think we can presume what it is 321 00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:10,970 or how much it is, because as you know, 322 00:48:10,970 --> 00:48:12,590 the people give feedback to municipal council 323 00:48:12,590 --> 00:48:13,580 in a number of ways. 324 00:48:13,580 --> 00:48:15,250 But public committee chair confirm 325 00:48:15,250 --> 00:48:19,870 whether or not there were delegations at the meeting. 326 00:48:19,870 --> 00:48:22,730 Thank you, and through you, there were no delegations 327 00:48:22,730 --> 00:48:23,520 on this item. 328 00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:26,980 But just a point of clarification, maybe you needed 329 00:48:26,980 --> 00:48:29,560 from staff as to what was actually in the staff report, 330 00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:31,070 because I believe the numbers and the ages 331 00:48:31,070 --> 00:48:37,500 were presented incorrectly. 332 00:48:37,500 --> 00:48:39,650 Maybe, but Councillor Troso has the floor, 333 00:48:39,650 --> 00:48:41,070 so he could do that through a question, 334 00:48:41,070 --> 00:48:42,600 or you could later, but I've got to go back 335 00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:45,080 to him on the floor for now. 336 00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:49,530 I would ask the chair, if through the chair, 337 00:48:49,530 --> 00:48:52,650 through you, the mayor, who's the chair of the committee, 338 00:48:52,650 --> 00:48:55,200 if you have any further information 339 00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:57,650 that might help us understand the purpose 340 00:48:57,650 --> 00:49:00,510 for the referral, because I don't see anything in origin, 341 00:49:00,510 --> 00:49:02,340 they're either for added. 342 00:49:02,340 --> 00:49:05,490 So could you help me out with that? 343 00:49:05,490 --> 00:49:07,920 Well, I can help you out with what the chair said, 344 00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:11,770 and that is, I think the council and the presentation 345 00:49:11,770 --> 00:49:14,910 had the age numbers the opposite way. 346 00:49:14,910 --> 00:49:17,660 So if you could just clarify what the item was 347 00:49:17,660 --> 00:49:21,360 before the committee and the related, 348 00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:23,480 just the related high-level details of that, 349 00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:31,940 and then I'll go back to Councillor Troso. 350 00:49:31,940 --> 00:49:34,050 Thank you, and through your worship, 351 00:49:34,050 --> 00:49:38,160 the current age for children to use gender-specific bathrooms 352 00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:39,860 is 10 and under. 353 00:49:39,860 --> 00:49:41,920 The amendment we proposed to the by-law 354 00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:48,880 was to change that to seven and under. 355 00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:50,910 And that's what came through the committee, 356 00:49:50,910 --> 00:49:53,610 was support for the change to the by-law. 357 00:49:53,610 --> 00:49:55,660 So before us today is that particular change, 358 00:49:55,660 --> 00:49:59,700 which has now been moved and seconded to be referred 359 00:49:59,700 --> 00:50:03,030 to a subsequent process and review of the Parks and Recs. 360 00:50:03,030 --> 00:50:03,850 Okay. 361 00:50:03,850 --> 00:50:04,680 Area by-law. 362 00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:06,640 Thank you. 363 00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:08,710 Excuse me, thank you very much. 364 00:50:08,710 --> 00:50:12,280 - Sure, okay, other speakers to this? 365 00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:16,160 Deputy Mayor Lewis, go ahead. 366 00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:18,550 - Thank you, Chair, and through you, your worship, 367 00:50:18,550 --> 00:50:19,840 I won't be supporting this referral. 368 00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:22,410 I'll be supporting the committee's recommendation. 369 00:50:22,410 --> 00:50:24,670 Our staff, as they presented at committee, 370 00:50:24,670 --> 00:50:25,540 have done their homework. 371 00:50:25,540 --> 00:50:27,310 They've done environmental scans, 372 00:50:27,310 --> 00:50:30,040 the best practices in other municipalities. 373 00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:32,660 And quite honestly, I have not. 374 00:50:32,660 --> 00:50:34,790 I concur with Councillor Troso. 375 00:50:34,790 --> 00:50:36,200 I've not heard a single comment 376 00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:39,230 from any of my constituents that this is a concern to them. 377 00:50:39,230 --> 00:50:42,940 I would also point out that our aquatics facilities, 378 00:50:42,940 --> 00:50:46,230 and through you, I'll ask staff to correct me if I'm wrong. 379 00:50:46,230 --> 00:50:49,520 But our aquatics facilities also have family change rooms 380 00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:52,050 in them, as well as gender-specific change rooms, 381 00:50:52,050 --> 00:50:55,020 which means if a parent's not comfortable with this, 382 00:50:55,020 --> 00:50:56,830 they have another option. 383 00:50:56,830 --> 00:50:59,620 So I don't need to refer this back, 384 00:50:59,620 --> 00:51:01,530 talk about it again and again. 385 00:51:01,530 --> 00:51:05,640 And frankly, while the Councillor may not appreciate 386 00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,950 this comment, I don't do governance 387 00:51:08,950 --> 00:51:11,230 by social media commentary. 388 00:51:11,230 --> 00:51:13,380 I've looked at the staff report here, 389 00:51:13,380 --> 00:51:16,890 and for me, I am comfortable with what staff are recommending, 390 00:51:16,890 --> 00:51:22,220 so I will not be supporting the referral. 391 00:51:22,220 --> 00:51:23,390 - You had a question of staff 392 00:51:23,390 --> 00:51:25,140 about the availability of, 393 00:51:25,140 --> 00:51:29,310 like there's gender-based facilities, 394 00:51:29,310 --> 00:51:30,760 but there's also family facilities 395 00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:32,990 and in our recreational services. 396 00:51:32,990 --> 00:51:37,060 So I'll go to our staff for that comment. 397 00:51:37,060 --> 00:51:38,750 - Thank you, and through your worship, 398 00:51:38,750 --> 00:51:39,960 in all of our indoor pools, 399 00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:41,780 we have universal change room. 400 00:51:41,780 --> 00:51:43,540 In the majority of our outdoor pools, 401 00:51:43,540 --> 00:51:46,210 we have universal change rooms or alternatives 402 00:51:46,210 --> 00:51:50,440 for individuals, they are separate bathrooms and change rooms. 403 00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:53,860 We do have three outdoor pools 404 00:51:53,860 --> 00:51:56,690 that do not have these facilities. 405 00:51:56,690 --> 00:52:00,240 However, in the past, when people with disabilities 406 00:52:00,240 --> 00:52:02,350 or others required separate space, 407 00:52:02,350 --> 00:52:03,830 we have used a first aid room 408 00:52:03,830 --> 00:52:06,020 and we have closed a bathroom off 409 00:52:06,020 --> 00:52:08,060 or used a staff bathroom to accommodate 410 00:52:08,060 --> 00:52:10,690 in those three outdoor pools. 411 00:52:10,690 --> 00:52:15,500 But we really have not had those requests. 412 00:52:15,500 --> 00:52:16,370 - Okay, good. 413 00:52:16,370 --> 00:52:17,530 All right, other speakers to this. 414 00:52:17,530 --> 00:52:19,620 And again, we're on the referral. 415 00:52:19,620 --> 00:52:21,580 I appreciate people needed some information 416 00:52:21,580 --> 00:52:22,870 to support their discussion, 417 00:52:22,870 --> 00:52:26,900 but anybody else on the referral. 418 00:52:26,900 --> 00:52:35,830 Okay, so we're gonna open the referral for voting. 419 00:52:35,830 --> 00:52:45,810 - Council of approval votes no. 420 00:52:45,810 --> 00:52:52,430 - Closing the vote, motion fails two to 13. 421 00:52:52,430 --> 00:52:56,210 - Okay, so that was on the referral. 422 00:52:56,210 --> 00:52:58,480 I'll go to speakers on the staff recommendation, 423 00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:00,770 which is on the floor by the chair. 424 00:53:00,770 --> 00:53:03,840 Go ahead, chair. 425 00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:04,760 - Thank you and through you. 426 00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:07,040 So I just wanted to say first, 427 00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:08,880 thank you to staff and to the public 428 00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:12,390 that have reached out on this item as well. 429 00:53:12,390 --> 00:53:16,660 I will say that one of the things I did here in feedback, 430 00:53:16,660 --> 00:53:18,580 and this is just for commentary 431 00:53:18,580 --> 00:53:20,820 because I think it's things that we will consider 432 00:53:20,820 --> 00:53:22,690 during the Parks and Rec Master Plan, 433 00:53:22,690 --> 00:53:25,850 as well as other facility plans as we move forward, 434 00:53:25,850 --> 00:53:28,240 is that one of the concerns is that in some 435 00:53:28,240 --> 00:53:30,640 of our facilities like our outdoor pools 436 00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:33,400 and like the aquatic center, 437 00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:36,750 it does put pressure on those spaces 438 00:53:36,750 --> 00:53:41,060 where we maybe do not have adequate enough family spaces. 439 00:53:41,060 --> 00:53:43,940 So specifically at the aquatic center, 440 00:53:43,940 --> 00:53:46,410 I do hear that concern from folks 441 00:53:46,410 --> 00:53:48,050 that they would like to see an upgrade 442 00:53:48,050 --> 00:53:50,810 to that facility to see more opportunities 443 00:53:50,810 --> 00:53:53,200 to allow for families to be able 444 00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:55,560 to use family change spaces. 445 00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:57,470 So that is something that we need to consider 446 00:53:57,470 --> 00:54:02,470 for the future as we look to bring this update forward. 447 00:54:02,470 --> 00:54:04,540 Thank you. 448 00:54:04,540 --> 00:54:09,840 - Okay, any other speakers to the committee's recommendation? 449 00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:10,650 Okay, seeing none. 450 00:54:10,650 --> 00:54:11,890 So this is on the committee's recommendation. 451 00:54:11,890 --> 00:54:17,860 We'll open that for voting. 452 00:54:17,860 --> 00:54:23,610 - Council of purple volts, yes. 453 00:54:23,610 --> 00:54:27,340 - Close on the vote, motion carries 13 to two. 454 00:54:27,340 --> 00:54:31,350 - All right, back to you, committee chair. 455 00:54:31,350 --> 00:54:32,230 - Thank you and through you. 456 00:54:32,230 --> 00:54:35,360 This is item five, 2.4, the community safety 457 00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:36,830 and well-being plan update. 458 00:54:36,830 --> 00:54:39,410 There was added communication in the agenda, 459 00:54:39,410 --> 00:54:42,510 which made it change to appendix C leave. 460 00:54:42,510 --> 00:54:46,050 So that was here for us. 461 00:54:46,050 --> 00:54:48,100 I'll put that on the floor. 462 00:54:48,100 --> 00:54:49,230 - Okay, this is on the floor. 463 00:54:49,230 --> 00:54:52,550 I'm gonna look to Councillor Stevenson, 464 00:54:52,550 --> 00:54:55,890 who I think has an amendment to this, go ahead. 465 00:54:55,890 --> 00:54:57,500 - I do, thank you. 466 00:54:57,500 --> 00:54:59,850 And I believe I have the seconder and Councillor Layman. 467 00:54:59,850 --> 00:55:02,170 Do you want me to read this out? 468 00:55:02,170 --> 00:55:03,010 - Yes, please. 469 00:55:03,010 --> 00:55:06,080 Whenever there's a motion that isn't on the added agenda, 470 00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:07,270 it's just great to read it out. 471 00:55:07,270 --> 00:55:09,620 So 'cause we've got a number of people in the gallery 472 00:55:09,620 --> 00:55:12,250 and they won't know what it says unless we articulate it. 473 00:55:12,250 --> 00:55:13,690 So if you can read it out, that would be fantastic. 474 00:55:13,690 --> 00:55:16,000 - I did circulate it through email to council, 475 00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:17,590 just prior to the meeting. 476 00:55:17,590 --> 00:55:19,380 So it's that the motion be amended 477 00:55:19,380 --> 00:55:22,730 to include a new part C to read as follow. 478 00:55:22,730 --> 00:55:26,010 C, the civic administration be directed 479 00:55:26,010 --> 00:55:29,470 to include a member of the London Police Services Board 480 00:55:29,470 --> 00:55:33,840 on the community safety and wellbeing advisory committee, 481 00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:36,300 the CSWB advisory committee, 482 00:55:36,300 --> 00:55:38,370 in accordance with the community safety 483 00:55:38,370 --> 00:55:44,300 and policing act 2019. 484 00:55:44,300 --> 00:55:46,160 - Okay, that's on the floor. 485 00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:49,430 And I just confirmed that yes, there's a seconder for that. 486 00:55:49,430 --> 00:55:50,940 I don't know if you want to speak now, Councillor, 487 00:55:50,940 --> 00:55:52,420 if you'd like to wait. 488 00:55:52,420 --> 00:55:55,620 - Yeah, also I'll speak now just to quickly let. 489 00:55:55,620 --> 00:55:58,030 - Just one second, I have just a quick point of order 490 00:55:58,030 --> 00:56:00,140 from Councillor Troso. 491 00:56:00,140 --> 00:56:02,680 - I just find this so confusing, oh, sorry. 492 00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:05,460 I find this confusing because it says, 493 00:56:05,460 --> 00:56:09,210 in accordance with the policing act, 494 00:56:09,210 --> 00:56:11,020 is there a mandate in that act 495 00:56:11,020 --> 00:56:13,540 that a member of this board be there? 496 00:56:13,540 --> 00:56:16,130 I just don't think this tells me what I need to know 497 00:56:16,130 --> 00:56:19,340 and I didn't get a chance to review it. 498 00:56:19,340 --> 00:56:21,590 - Yes, that's my understanding of the act. 499 00:56:21,590 --> 00:56:23,050 I mean, my police board colleagues 500 00:56:23,050 --> 00:56:24,950 probably know the act as well as I do. 501 00:56:24,950 --> 00:56:29,680 So it was something that I'm not sure if it's like, 502 00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:33,070 yeah, I can let my colleagues speak to that. 503 00:56:33,070 --> 00:56:39,330 - I can say it's section 250, 3.7. 504 00:56:39,330 --> 00:56:42,840 - You can say so, that would have been helpful. 505 00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:47,590 - Of the Canadian safety, the CSPA. 506 00:56:47,590 --> 00:56:50,250 - Okay, Councillor satisfied with his question. 507 00:56:50,250 --> 00:56:51,070 That was a point of order. 508 00:56:51,070 --> 00:56:51,890 So we've dealt with that. 509 00:56:51,890 --> 00:56:52,710 That information's here. 510 00:56:52,710 --> 00:56:55,690 I'll go back to you Councillor Stevenson. 511 00:56:55,690 --> 00:56:56,510 - Yeah, thank you. 512 00:56:56,510 --> 00:56:59,140 This is just, I want to put this on the record 513 00:56:59,140 --> 00:57:02,690 that the city reached out to the LPSB 514 00:57:02,690 --> 00:57:05,090 and make sure that it members on that committee 515 00:57:05,090 --> 00:57:13,610 to ensure that we're compliant with the CSPA. 516 00:57:13,610 --> 00:57:15,550 - Okay, other speakers to this. 517 00:57:15,550 --> 00:57:27,910 Go ahead Councillor Furrier. 518 00:57:27,910 --> 00:57:28,740 - Thanks Mayor. 519 00:57:28,740 --> 00:57:30,830 I just want to go to staff on this one. 520 00:57:30,830 --> 00:57:35,800 So I do see that a reference from the committee police act 521 00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:39,880 was made, just want to go to staff on that 522 00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:42,190 to see if staff can confirm that, 523 00:57:42,190 --> 00:57:48,450 to see if it is mandated, go to our staff. 524 00:57:48,450 --> 00:57:50,620 - Thank you, and through your worship, 525 00:57:50,620 --> 00:57:54,880 the CSWB advisory committee and the act determined 526 00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:58,230 that municipalities must create one of these plans. 527 00:57:58,230 --> 00:58:01,730 In order to do that, they were to develop a community safety 528 00:58:01,730 --> 00:58:04,040 and wellbeing advisory committee, which we did, 529 00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:05,440 having all the members, 530 00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:08,900 including the London Police Service Board member. 531 00:58:08,900 --> 00:58:11,370 Once a plan is approved and implemented, 532 00:58:11,370 --> 00:58:16,480 we then followed in 255 revisions by the municipality 533 00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:19,730 in the act that then tells municipalities 534 00:58:19,730 --> 00:58:22,320 to go forward and implement your plan. 535 00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:24,800 So in order to implement our plan, 536 00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:26,670 we have what we call a working group 537 00:58:26,670 --> 00:58:29,220 or an implementation committee, 538 00:58:29,220 --> 00:58:32,210 and on that committee sits all the actual plan members, 539 00:58:32,210 --> 00:58:35,280 and we do have members from the London Police Services 540 00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:39,260 who sit on that plan and sit on that implementation group 541 00:58:39,260 --> 00:58:42,890 as the London Police Services plan is on that group. 542 00:58:42,890 --> 00:58:45,880 So the active members now are currently those 543 00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:48,870 who have plans that are part of the community safety 544 00:58:48,870 --> 00:58:52,910 and wellbeing plan in front of you. 545 00:58:52,910 --> 00:58:55,210 - Go ahead. 546 00:58:55,210 --> 00:58:56,120 - Thank you. 547 00:58:56,120 --> 00:59:00,330 So the act mandates London Police Service members 548 00:59:00,330 --> 00:59:03,620 and not necessarily London Police Board members 549 00:59:03,620 --> 00:59:08,340 on the safety and wellbeing advisory group. 550 00:59:08,340 --> 00:59:10,220 - Thank you, and through your worship. 551 00:59:10,220 --> 00:59:13,800 For the advisory committee, it lists, 552 00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:16,110 and to develop your plan and advisory committee 553 00:59:16,110 --> 00:59:18,420 helps develop the plan. 554 00:59:18,420 --> 00:59:20,730 So when our plan was developed over five years ago, 555 00:59:20,730 --> 00:59:23,870 we did have members of the London Police Services Board. 556 00:59:23,870 --> 00:59:25,500 Now to implement our plan, 557 00:59:25,500 --> 00:59:28,050 we have members of the London Police Services 558 00:59:28,050 --> 00:59:30,070 on our working group. 559 00:59:30,070 --> 00:59:33,710 We do no longer have the official community safety 560 00:59:33,710 --> 00:59:35,290 and wellbeing advisory committee 561 00:59:35,290 --> 00:59:37,550 because we've already developed our plan. 562 00:59:37,550 --> 00:59:41,850 We're now implementing it. 563 00:59:41,850 --> 00:59:45,390 - Okay, so we are no longer using the community 564 00:59:45,390 --> 00:59:48,170 and safety wellbeing advisory committee. 565 00:59:48,170 --> 00:59:51,720 We are now in the implementation of the plan. 566 00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:53,760 So adding a police service board member 567 00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:57,720 to this advisory committee that is no longer being used. 568 00:59:57,720 --> 01:00:05,130 Okay. 569 01:00:05,130 --> 01:00:07,140 - Go to the chair. 570 01:00:07,140 --> 01:00:08,600 - Thank you, through you. 571 01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:11,200 I'm just wondering if we should refer this matter 572 01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:12,930 for further clarification at this point 573 01:00:12,930 --> 01:00:16,190 because I can't pull up the act fast enough 574 01:00:16,190 --> 01:00:20,220 to verify which component of, I agree with sorry. 575 01:00:20,220 --> 01:00:21,530 Let me rephrase that. 576 01:00:21,530 --> 01:00:23,150 I understand what staff is saying. 577 01:00:23,150 --> 01:00:25,790 I just want to be able to better understand this, 578 01:00:25,790 --> 01:00:28,330 but I don't want to refer the whole plan. 579 01:00:28,330 --> 01:00:30,990 So this to me is a separate component of this 580 01:00:30,990 --> 01:00:33,640 because we're just talking about adding somebody. 581 01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:36,410 I think we can still deal with the plan 582 01:00:36,410 --> 01:00:40,040 and refer the item of putting somebody else 583 01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:43,820 from the police service board to a further discussion. 584 01:00:43,820 --> 01:00:47,890 So I'm wondering if I can move that referral. 585 01:00:47,890 --> 01:00:49,680 - Yeah, referrals in order if there's a second 586 01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:53,410 or I see Councillor Hopkins willing to second. 587 01:00:53,410 --> 01:01:00,320 So this is referring just the amendment, 588 01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:03,210 not the entire item. 589 01:01:03,210 --> 01:01:32,270 Okay. 590 01:01:32,270 --> 01:01:33,320 Yeah, so the referrals in order 591 01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:35,840 and you can refer just that piece of it. 592 01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:39,030 And certainly it could be dealt with a committee 593 01:01:39,030 --> 01:01:41,830 without any prejudice of us moving forward 594 01:01:41,830 --> 01:01:43,320 with the other piece of the plan. 595 01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:44,740 So go ahead. 596 01:01:44,740 --> 01:01:46,140 - Thank you and through you if I may speak to it. 597 01:01:46,140 --> 01:01:47,850 So first I just want to thank my colleagues 598 01:01:47,850 --> 01:01:50,250 for bringing this up because I think it's always important 599 01:01:50,250 --> 01:01:51,800 that we look at legislation and make sure 600 01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:53,790 that we're compliant as possible. 601 01:01:53,790 --> 01:01:56,070 And I think that there would be value 602 01:01:56,070 --> 01:01:57,540 if we were missing voices. 603 01:01:57,540 --> 01:01:59,700 But what I hear from Ms. Smith is that 604 01:01:59,700 --> 01:02:01,250 we're in the implementation plan 605 01:02:01,250 --> 01:02:05,000 and we have voices from police services there. 606 01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:07,830 So I just want to be able to look at this a little bit further. 607 01:02:07,830 --> 01:02:09,780 I hope my colleagues will support it going back 608 01:02:09,780 --> 01:02:13,530 for as a referral so that we can have this discussion 609 01:02:13,530 --> 01:02:17,780 depending when we receive that information. 610 01:02:17,780 --> 01:02:19,920 - Okay, I look for other speakers on the referral. 611 01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:21,660 Councillor Hopkins, go ahead. 612 01:02:21,660 --> 01:02:23,100 - Yeah, thank you, Your Worship. 613 01:02:23,100 --> 01:02:25,720 And thank you to the chair for the referral, 614 01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:27,120 happy to second it. 615 01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:30,980 I think as we're here at council making these decisions 616 01:02:30,980 --> 01:02:33,610 to me without all the information, 617 01:02:33,610 --> 01:02:34,960 I feel a little uncomfortable. 618 01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:36,870 So having a go back to committee 619 01:02:36,870 --> 01:02:39,060 and having a better understanding, 620 01:02:39,060 --> 01:02:43,720 we're not delaying the work in group 621 01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:45,080 or the work that's going on. 622 01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:50,980 So happy to support the referral. 623 01:02:50,980 --> 01:02:53,910 - Councillor Troz, sir. 624 01:02:53,910 --> 01:02:56,620 - Thank you for the chair. 625 01:02:56,620 --> 01:02:58,450 As I understand this, 626 01:02:58,450 --> 01:03:01,150 we're not under an obligation to make this change. 627 01:03:01,150 --> 01:03:04,030 I don't see the point in referring this back. 628 01:03:04,030 --> 01:03:06,900 And while normally it's fine to refer this back, 629 01:03:06,900 --> 01:03:09,860 I really worry about the fact that this committee 630 01:03:09,860 --> 01:03:13,390 and other committees, we're hard pressed 631 01:03:13,390 --> 01:03:16,010 in terms of the time that we have at our committees. 632 01:03:16,010 --> 01:03:18,510 And unless there's, unless somebody from the staff 633 01:03:18,510 --> 01:03:21,310 wants to tell me that there was a mistake 634 01:03:21,310 --> 01:03:23,780 in the original staff report that needs to be corrected, 635 01:03:23,780 --> 01:03:25,240 which is not what I'm hearing, 636 01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:27,780 I just want to finish with this matter today 637 01:03:27,780 --> 01:03:29,080 and not refer it back. 638 01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:30,810 I just think we have to be more mindful 639 01:03:30,810 --> 01:03:36,000 of the demands on our agendas that result in long meetings. 640 01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:38,500 And I don't know what's underneath this. 641 01:03:38,500 --> 01:03:40,090 I'm not going to try to guess, 642 01:03:40,090 --> 01:03:42,350 but it doesn't seem to me as if we've made any mistakes. 643 01:03:42,350 --> 01:03:46,510 So I'm ready to proceed based on what we had before. 644 01:03:46,510 --> 01:03:48,630 I should add it would have been nice to have this 645 01:03:48,630 --> 01:03:52,260 a little earlier, but, you know, then again, here we are. 646 01:03:52,260 --> 01:03:53,820 Thank you. 647 01:03:53,820 --> 01:04:01,310 - Okay, I'll look for other speakers to the referral. 648 01:04:01,310 --> 01:04:03,020 I see, no other speakers to the referral, 649 01:04:03,020 --> 01:04:11,010 so we'll open the referral for voting. 650 01:04:11,010 --> 01:04:26,180 - So the approval votes yes. 651 01:04:26,180 --> 01:04:30,420 - Present vote, motion carries eight to seven. 652 01:04:30,420 --> 01:04:31,570 - Okay, that part's referred, 653 01:04:31,570 --> 01:04:33,930 but we have the original staff recommendations 654 01:04:33,930 --> 01:04:35,040 still on the floor by the chair. 655 01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:38,730 I'll continue any discussion or debate on that, 656 01:04:38,730 --> 01:04:44,750 or the committee recommendation, my apologies. 657 01:04:44,750 --> 01:04:52,850 Okay, seeing none, we'll open that for voting. 658 01:04:52,850 --> 01:05:08,000 - Council of approval votes yes. 659 01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:12,670 - Present vote, motion carries 14 to one. 660 01:05:12,670 --> 01:05:14,870 - Okay, back to you chair. 661 01:05:14,870 --> 01:05:16,300 - Thank you, I'll put item seven, 662 01:05:16,300 --> 01:05:19,100 which is 3.1, the short-term accommodation license 663 01:05:19,100 --> 01:05:25,240 and penalties related to bill's number 134-135-140 on the floor. 664 01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:26,320 - Okay, that's on the floor. 665 01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:28,190 I'll look to speakers. 666 01:05:28,190 --> 01:05:30,770 Councilor Frank, go ahead. 667 01:05:30,770 --> 01:05:33,270 - Thank you, yes, and included on the agenda. 668 01:05:33,270 --> 01:05:35,210 It was a letter from myself, the deputy mayor 669 01:05:35,210 --> 01:05:37,990 and Councilor Pribble in regards to some amendments 670 01:05:37,990 --> 01:05:42,700 we'd like, so I'm happy to read out the motion 671 01:05:42,700 --> 01:05:46,930 to get on the floor if possible. 672 01:05:46,930 --> 01:05:48,750 - So this one's on the added, so you can read it out 673 01:05:48,750 --> 01:05:50,170 if you like, but you don't have to, 674 01:05:50,170 --> 01:05:52,020 because it's on the public record already. 675 01:05:52,020 --> 01:05:55,370 We can just load it up and keep going if you like. 676 01:05:55,370 --> 01:05:58,560 - Wonderful, yes, and maybe I'll just confirm I'm a seconder. 677 01:05:58,560 --> 01:06:02,130 - Yeah, I kind of saw a nod from one of your colleagues, 678 01:06:02,130 --> 01:06:04,840 but I'll make sure that just in case, 679 01:06:04,840 --> 01:06:06,130 Deputy Mayor, you're gonna second this, right? 680 01:06:06,130 --> 01:06:07,870 Yeah, okay. 681 01:06:07,870 --> 01:06:09,310 - Okay, go ahead, okay. 682 01:06:09,310 --> 01:06:12,070 - So just to further expand on the letter 683 01:06:12,070 --> 01:06:14,470 that was submitted, but I won't go over it entirely. 684 01:06:14,470 --> 01:06:16,140 I had some feedback from residents 685 01:06:16,140 --> 01:06:17,780 who do have short-term accommodations. 686 01:06:17,780 --> 01:06:20,220 We saw some folks in the gallery who spoke 687 01:06:20,220 --> 01:06:23,130 and some folks emailed in some of the feedback. 688 01:06:23,130 --> 01:06:27,010 One of the main ones being that the age of allowing folks 689 01:06:27,010 --> 01:06:29,680 who are under two to be with their parents 690 01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:33,000 was a little bit too young and changing that up to 12, 691 01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:36,400 which is more common when folks are traveling as a family. 692 01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:38,710 Additionally, some of the concerns that were being created 693 01:06:38,710 --> 01:06:42,110 were the difference between hosted or non-hosted 694 01:06:42,110 --> 01:06:43,830 or essentially landlord on site 695 01:06:43,830 --> 01:06:47,060 versus landlord not on site short-term accommodations. 696 01:06:47,060 --> 01:06:50,700 Generally, I found that the more problematic 697 01:06:50,700 --> 01:06:52,050 short-term accommodations are the ones 698 01:06:52,050 --> 01:06:54,610 where there's no landlord or owner on site 699 01:06:54,610 --> 01:06:58,490 and therefore sometimes turns into bit of a party place. 700 01:06:58,490 --> 01:07:02,160 So some of the concerns I had from residents in my area 701 01:07:02,160 --> 01:07:05,160 was they live on site, they live within the building 702 01:07:05,160 --> 01:07:06,630 or an addition to the building 703 01:07:06,630 --> 01:07:08,150 and they've never had those complaints 704 01:07:08,150 --> 01:07:10,230 and yet they're still being penalized in the same way 705 01:07:10,230 --> 01:07:15,020 for those who have more of a party Airbnb approach. 706 01:07:15,020 --> 01:07:18,380 So these two amendments are to try and address that 707 01:07:18,380 --> 01:07:22,790 and specifically in regards to providing an exemption 708 01:07:22,790 --> 01:07:26,120 for those where the host or owner is present on site 709 01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:27,420 during the guest day. 710 01:07:27,420 --> 01:07:30,150 And that way those folks who are on site 711 01:07:30,150 --> 01:07:34,550 are not being swept into the same legislation 712 01:07:34,550 --> 01:07:38,080 that's governing more of the party locations. 713 01:07:38,080 --> 01:07:41,060 So I'll stop there, but I'm looking for support 714 01:07:41,060 --> 01:07:45,610 on those two amendments just to improve the by-law. 715 01:07:45,610 --> 01:07:48,440 - Yes, and I will say thank you for preparing that ahead of time. 716 01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:49,870 Because of that, if this changes, 717 01:07:49,870 --> 01:07:52,850 we do have alternate versions of the by-law available today. 718 01:07:52,850 --> 01:07:55,150 So if colleagues pass this, we can actually continue forward 719 01:07:55,150 --> 01:07:57,180 and pass the by-law tonight rather than a referral back. 720 01:07:57,180 --> 01:07:59,250 So it's moved and seconded. 721 01:07:59,250 --> 01:08:01,000 Councillor Frank has spoken and looked to other speakers 722 01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:04,230 on this. 723 01:08:04,230 --> 01:08:08,120 Okay, Deputy Mayor Lewis and then Councillor Troz. 724 01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:10,790 - Thank you, Your Worship, and through you, I'll be brief. 725 01:08:10,790 --> 01:08:14,250 I'll just say did owe to everything that Councillor Frank has said. 726 01:08:14,250 --> 01:08:17,550 You know, I'm supporting this through my own experience. 727 01:08:17,550 --> 01:08:19,110 You all know I spend part of my time away 728 01:08:19,110 --> 01:08:20,500 from here coaching hockey. 729 01:08:20,500 --> 01:08:23,240 This is not an uncommon situation for families 730 01:08:23,240 --> 01:08:26,150 to share hotel rooms, share Airbnb rooms 731 01:08:26,150 --> 01:08:28,780 as they're traveling for sporting events and things like this. 732 01:08:28,780 --> 01:08:30,810 This is pretty consistent with industry standards 733 01:08:30,810 --> 01:08:32,360 in the hotel sector. 734 01:08:32,360 --> 01:08:33,950 So I'm comfortable applying the same standards 735 01:08:33,950 --> 01:08:39,880 to the Airbnb short-term accommodation vendors. 736 01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:42,660 Councillor Troz, go ahead. 737 01:08:42,660 --> 01:08:43,480 - Thank you for the chair. 738 01:08:43,480 --> 01:08:46,900 I do need a clarification because I'm a little bit confused 739 01:08:46,900 --> 01:08:49,630 about the discussion about distinguishing 740 01:08:49,630 --> 01:08:52,780 between on-site owners and situations 741 01:08:52,780 --> 01:08:55,060 that don't have on-site owners. 742 01:08:55,060 --> 01:08:56,840 Under our current by-law, 743 01:08:56,840 --> 01:08:59,950 and as we're talking about amending it, 744 01:08:59,950 --> 01:09:04,120 isn't there a requirement that this only apply 745 01:09:04,120 --> 01:09:07,340 to owners who are on the premises? 746 01:09:07,340 --> 01:09:10,380 Or what am I missing? 747 01:09:10,380 --> 01:09:12,390 - Mr. Mayors, go ahead. 748 01:09:12,390 --> 01:09:13,610 - Through you, through your Worship. 749 01:09:13,610 --> 01:09:18,620 So it has to be in a unit that's owned by a person 750 01:09:18,620 --> 01:09:20,570 who resides in the home, 751 01:09:20,570 --> 01:09:23,870 but that person could be, for example, 752 01:09:23,870 --> 01:09:25,620 on a sabbatical or away from the home 753 01:09:25,620 --> 01:09:27,530 as long as they still own the home. 754 01:09:27,530 --> 01:09:31,780 This hosted aspect would require the owner to be on-site 755 01:09:31,780 --> 01:09:34,730 while the actual booking and accommodation is occurring. 756 01:09:34,730 --> 01:09:42,180 - Yes, and in my view, we had that on-site requirement 757 01:09:43,030 --> 01:09:45,700 very consciously in the initial by-law, 758 01:09:45,700 --> 01:09:48,200 and I am not prepared to change that. 759 01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:55,210 So unless, I'm sorry, am I, do I have, do I have the floor? 760 01:09:55,210 --> 01:09:58,060 - You do have the floor, yes. 761 01:09:58,060 --> 01:10:02,250 - Okay, it's hard when people are making faces at you. 762 01:10:02,250 --> 01:10:04,740 I just, I'm not gonna support this 763 01:10:04,740 --> 01:10:09,420 because I think we have that on-site requirement 764 01:10:09,420 --> 01:10:15,900 as for a reason, and I don't wanna start departing from that. 765 01:10:15,900 --> 01:10:20,210 So unless there's something else that should lead me 766 01:10:20,210 --> 01:10:23,590 to think this amendment is well thought out, 767 01:10:23,590 --> 01:10:28,130 I'm very, very concerned about disturbing things 768 01:10:28,130 --> 01:10:30,970 that we've been through very, very well, 769 01:10:30,970 --> 01:10:35,400 and I don't wanna make this change unless, yeah, 770 01:10:35,400 --> 01:10:36,930 given the fact that there's a requirement 771 01:10:36,930 --> 01:10:38,040 that people will be there, 772 01:10:38,040 --> 01:10:39,180 I just don't wanna make this change. 773 01:10:39,180 --> 01:10:42,150 So I'll be voting no one less. 774 01:10:42,150 --> 01:10:46,780 - Okay, other speakers, I don't have a list actually. 775 01:10:46,780 --> 01:10:49,690 Oh, Councilor Pribble, sorry, I got you online there. 776 01:10:49,690 --> 01:10:51,500 Go ahead. 777 01:10:51,500 --> 01:10:53,750 - Thank you, I'm sort of chair to the staff. 778 01:10:53,750 --> 01:10:55,820 If Mr. Mathers could clarify, 779 01:10:55,820 --> 01:11:00,730 I'm under the impression that the state's primary residence, 780 01:11:00,730 --> 01:11:04,910 and I believe it will still state primary residence. 781 01:11:04,910 --> 01:11:09,520 So there is no change in this perspective. 782 01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:12,930 - Just let me clarify, 'cause Mr. Mathers said this, 783 01:11:12,930 --> 01:11:16,490 primary residence, and then being there 784 01:11:16,490 --> 01:11:21,730 while you're having someone stay are different things, right? 785 01:11:21,730 --> 01:11:23,320 For your primary residence, 786 01:11:23,320 --> 01:11:25,610 you could not be there that day or week 787 01:11:25,610 --> 01:11:28,420 while someone is renting your space. 788 01:11:28,420 --> 01:11:31,440 Councilor's amendment is you get an exemption 789 01:11:31,440 --> 01:11:34,680 if you're there on site. 790 01:11:34,680 --> 01:11:38,710 So that's the difference between what it says in the by-law, 791 01:11:38,710 --> 01:11:40,040 or what it says under the current rules 792 01:11:40,040 --> 01:11:42,690 and what the Councilor's proposing is the change. 793 01:11:42,690 --> 01:11:45,560 And Mr. Mathers, you can confirm that if you'd like. 794 01:11:45,560 --> 01:11:47,510 - Through the chair, absolutely, that's correct. 795 01:11:47,510 --> 01:11:49,140 The current by-law and the new by-law 796 01:11:49,140 --> 01:11:51,920 would still have a primary residence requirements. 797 01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:56,890 The change it would be making to address the motion here 798 01:11:56,890 --> 01:12:00,650 would be to actually create a new definition, 799 01:12:00,650 --> 01:12:03,230 definition on hosted short-term accommodation, 800 01:12:03,230 --> 01:12:05,750 which would add this additional criteria 801 01:12:05,750 --> 01:12:09,410 that would have the ability of the exemption. 802 01:12:09,410 --> 01:12:12,840 - Okay, does that help clarify, Councilor Pribble? 803 01:12:12,840 --> 01:12:14,480 - It certainly has the cooperation. 804 01:12:14,480 --> 01:12:16,110 Thank you. 805 01:12:16,110 --> 01:12:21,050 - Okay, other speakers, go ahead, Councilor Raman. 806 01:12:21,050 --> 01:12:22,720 - Thank you and through you to staff. 807 01:12:22,720 --> 01:12:25,220 I'm just wondering how would this be enforced 808 01:12:25,220 --> 01:12:27,520 or interpreted in terms of, I mean, 809 01:12:27,520 --> 01:12:29,750 if the person was there for a period of time, 810 01:12:29,750 --> 01:12:31,970 but not the full time, et cetera, 811 01:12:31,970 --> 01:12:34,860 how would that be defined? 812 01:12:34,860 --> 01:12:38,470 - Okay, I'll go to Mr. Mathers. 813 01:12:38,470 --> 01:12:42,400 - Through your worship, it would have to be the entire time. 814 01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:44,430 It'd have to be something that actually is included 815 01:12:44,430 --> 01:12:46,490 in the marketing materials for the site 816 01:12:46,490 --> 01:12:49,120 to say that there is this is a hosted accommodation 817 01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:51,460 and the person will be there for the entire period of time. 818 01:12:51,460 --> 01:12:53,170 And that's something that's need to be certified 819 01:12:53,170 --> 01:12:59,680 to the city as far as needing that criteria. 820 01:12:59,680 --> 01:13:00,660 - Thank you and through you. 821 01:13:00,660 --> 01:13:03,250 And do you see any enforcement-related challenges? 822 01:13:03,250 --> 01:13:07,960 For instance, a by-law officer shows up on site 823 01:13:07,960 --> 01:13:11,620 and the person isn't there. 824 01:13:11,620 --> 01:13:15,060 I'm just not sure how much leeway do we give 825 01:13:15,060 --> 01:13:18,170 to that person getting back to the house, for instance, 826 01:13:18,170 --> 01:13:19,390 or whatnot. 827 01:13:19,390 --> 01:13:21,770 I'm just looking for more clarification 828 01:13:21,770 --> 01:13:24,990 on how I understand the purpose of the definition 829 01:13:24,990 --> 01:13:27,450 as it relates to a particular 830 01:13:27,450 --> 01:13:29,430 or some of the communication that we've received 831 01:13:29,430 --> 01:13:31,340 from particular owners, 832 01:13:31,340 --> 01:13:37,960 but I just can't understand how that would be enforced. 833 01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:40,440 - Go ahead, sorry. 834 01:13:40,440 --> 01:13:42,960 - Through you, worship, yeah, it definitely would be a challenge. 835 01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:45,550 We would use the same type of approaches we do 836 01:13:45,550 --> 01:13:50,220 on any of these, is require that compliance, 837 01:13:50,220 --> 01:13:51,500 ensure that they are on site. 838 01:13:51,500 --> 01:13:53,370 If they're not on site, try to understand 839 01:13:53,370 --> 01:13:56,480 why they may not been for that period of time. 840 01:13:56,480 --> 01:13:59,000 And it will be a little bit more complex. 841 01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:01,470 We're not expecting a huge number of folks 842 01:14:01,470 --> 01:14:03,550 going down this road 'cause there is more documentation 843 01:14:03,550 --> 01:14:04,900 that they have to provide us to be able 844 01:14:04,900 --> 01:14:07,380 to undergo this special exemption. 845 01:14:07,380 --> 01:14:08,850 We're thinking that it's gonna apply mostly 846 01:14:08,850 --> 01:14:12,760 to larger units or locations 847 01:14:12,760 --> 01:14:15,480 where they really are focusing on bringing in families, 848 01:14:15,480 --> 01:14:18,110 but it will be a little bit more complex 849 01:14:18,110 --> 01:14:22,950 to be able to administer. 850 01:14:22,950 --> 01:14:24,330 - Go ahead. 851 01:14:24,330 --> 01:14:25,160 - Thank you and through you. 852 01:14:25,160 --> 01:14:27,480 I appreciate that feedback. 853 01:14:27,480 --> 01:14:31,080 I'm just looking to separate A&B then please. 854 01:14:31,080 --> 01:14:34,560 - Sure, we can vote on A&B separately, no problem. 855 01:14:34,560 --> 01:14:43,320 So we can vote on A&B separately. 856 01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:47,460 However, if one of those fails, 857 01:14:47,460 --> 01:14:49,970 we would have to refer the other piece back 858 01:14:49,970 --> 01:14:51,430 to have the by-law rewritten. 859 01:14:51,430 --> 01:14:53,070 So just so colleagues are aware 860 01:14:53,070 --> 01:14:56,190 that should a part of this fail. 861 01:14:56,190 --> 01:14:58,830 We don't have a by-law that doesn't have both in it. 862 01:14:58,830 --> 01:15:00,250 I'm gonna allow it 'cause I want colleagues 863 01:15:00,250 --> 01:15:03,770 to vote their way, but I'm going to ask 864 01:15:03,770 --> 01:15:05,850 if one passes but not the other, 865 01:15:05,850 --> 01:15:07,740 that we move to a referral back 866 01:15:07,740 --> 01:15:09,850 to committee to write the by-law. 867 01:15:09,850 --> 01:15:24,120 So 'cause we would not pass a by-law today. 868 01:15:24,120 --> 01:15:25,790 Okay, alternate, we don't have to refer it. 869 01:15:25,790 --> 01:15:27,430 We just have to bring the by-law forward 870 01:15:27,430 --> 01:15:29,020 to a future meeting of council for approval. 871 01:15:29,020 --> 01:15:31,400 So we could approve it in any way we want today, 872 01:15:31,400 --> 01:15:33,610 but it would not come into effect until later 873 01:15:33,610 --> 01:15:37,360 once a by-law comes to council and gets three readings. 874 01:15:37,360 --> 01:15:39,370 What's the point-of-order councilor? 875 01:15:39,370 --> 01:15:40,910 - I'm having difficulty understanding 876 01:15:40,910 --> 01:15:43,210 why we can't vote on the amendment separately. 877 01:15:43,210 --> 01:15:44,800 And if the amendment is voted down, 878 01:15:44,800 --> 01:15:47,840 we just have the report that came to us. 879 01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:50,210 - So you can do that. 880 01:15:50,210 --> 01:15:53,020 What I'm saying is the amendment is separated into two pieces. 881 01:15:53,020 --> 01:15:54,580 We have two by-laws prepared. 882 01:15:54,580 --> 01:15:56,230 The one has came through committee 883 01:15:56,230 --> 01:15:58,490 and one that has both of these changes 884 01:15:58,490 --> 01:15:59,940 integrated in the by-law. 885 01:15:59,940 --> 01:16:05,580 So if you pass A and not B or B and not A, 886 01:16:05,580 --> 01:16:07,160 we don't have a combination of by-laws 887 01:16:07,160 --> 01:16:09,330 that actually has that legislation in it. 888 01:16:09,330 --> 01:16:10,910 So that cannot happen tonight. 889 01:16:10,910 --> 01:16:13,190 But you can vote down all of it, no problem. 890 01:16:13,190 --> 01:16:16,310 You can approve both, no problem. 891 01:16:16,310 --> 01:16:18,720 Just anything else we can't do. 892 01:16:18,720 --> 01:16:20,330 - Okay, well, I just think it's unfortunate 893 01:16:20,330 --> 01:16:22,020 that we're gonna have to maybe have to look 894 01:16:22,020 --> 01:16:23,750 at some more of the way 'cause we need these changes, 895 01:16:23,750 --> 01:16:27,010 but whatever, you rule, yeah. 896 01:16:27,010 --> 01:16:30,210 - Well, it's not whatever, that's how it works, Councillor. 897 01:16:30,210 --> 01:16:32,020 So colleagues are allowed to make changes. 898 01:16:32,020 --> 01:16:34,700 We sometimes can pass legislation the same day, 899 01:16:34,700 --> 01:16:35,510 sometimes we can't. 900 01:16:35,510 --> 01:16:39,260 So that's the consequences of making changes. 901 01:16:39,260 --> 01:16:42,280 I will say the Councillor did suggest two changes, 902 01:16:42,280 --> 01:16:44,180 brought a by-law for that, 903 01:16:44,180 --> 01:16:45,790 didn't bring every possible combination. 904 01:16:45,790 --> 01:16:47,680 That just wouldn't be functional for our staff to do. 905 01:16:47,680 --> 01:16:51,750 So that being said, you can vote whatever way you want, 906 01:16:51,750 --> 01:16:53,100 and whether it gets implemented today 907 01:16:53,100 --> 01:16:55,070 or it gets implemented at a future meeting, 908 01:16:55,070 --> 01:16:58,580 that'll depend on how the votes go, okay? 909 01:16:58,580 --> 01:17:00,160 - Okay, I still don't understand 910 01:17:00,160 --> 01:17:02,970 why we can't just enact the by-law 911 01:17:02,970 --> 01:17:04,310 that came to us through committee. 912 01:17:04,310 --> 01:17:07,400 - You can, by voting down these amendments, you can do that. 913 01:17:07,400 --> 01:17:10,600 So just vote no to both AMB and then you'd be, 914 01:17:10,600 --> 01:17:15,030 you'd be passing exactly what came through committee, okay? 915 01:17:15,030 --> 01:17:19,350 All right, other speakers, to the amendment. 916 01:17:19,350 --> 01:17:23,380 I have Councillor Ferra and then Councillor Hopkins. 917 01:17:23,380 --> 01:17:26,960 - Thanks, Chair, from what the Chair's questions were, 918 01:17:26,960 --> 01:17:28,700 that was my question as well. 919 01:17:28,700 --> 01:17:31,240 I did have an additional one as a follow-up. 920 01:17:31,240 --> 01:17:32,670 And that would be, I guess, 921 01:17:32,670 --> 01:17:35,170 with respect to the age limit in 12 years and older, 922 01:17:35,170 --> 01:17:38,000 like how would we be able to enforce something like that? 923 01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:41,930 Would that be up to the owner/occupier 924 01:17:41,930 --> 01:17:43,140 doing the enforcement? 925 01:17:43,140 --> 01:17:44,870 Would staff come in? 926 01:17:44,870 --> 01:17:50,180 What type of documentation are we looking for? 927 01:17:50,180 --> 01:17:53,040 Go ahead, Mr. Mathers. 928 01:17:53,040 --> 01:17:55,150 - Yep, through your worship. 929 01:17:55,150 --> 01:17:58,100 So a couple pieces to that would be one, 930 01:17:58,100 --> 01:18:01,080 as part of any kind of marketing of that unit, 931 01:18:01,080 --> 01:18:02,780 that they'd be very clear as far as 932 01:18:02,780 --> 01:18:04,910 what the requirements are for occupancy. 933 01:18:04,910 --> 01:18:09,360 So that children under 12 years are allowed 934 01:18:09,360 --> 01:18:11,110 within certain units in different sizes. 935 01:18:11,110 --> 01:18:15,850 So it should be, that's part of ensuring 936 01:18:15,850 --> 01:18:17,310 that people are aware of that. 937 01:18:17,310 --> 01:18:22,760 And then if there is any kind of municipal compliance action, 938 01:18:22,760 --> 01:18:25,120 then we would be asking for information 939 01:18:25,120 --> 01:18:26,980 about the folks that are staying in that unit 940 01:18:26,980 --> 01:18:31,030 and confirming their ages. 941 01:18:31,030 --> 01:18:32,160 - Go ahead. 942 01:18:32,160 --> 01:18:34,280 - Thanks, so the only real matter of enforcement 943 01:18:34,280 --> 01:18:35,730 from the city perspective would be 944 01:18:35,730 --> 01:18:37,560 the compliance officer going there. 945 01:18:37,560 --> 01:18:39,650 And that would, I would assume only get raised 946 01:18:39,650 --> 01:18:41,460 if the owner/occupier or the host 947 01:18:41,460 --> 01:18:43,620 would be the ones who are flagging that. 948 01:18:43,620 --> 01:18:46,600 And I would be concerned because we do, 949 01:18:46,600 --> 01:18:48,440 like I like the intent of the motion 950 01:18:48,440 --> 01:18:50,110 that the counselors are bringing. 951 01:18:50,110 --> 01:18:51,950 But at the same time, I wonder how the enforcement 952 01:18:51,950 --> 01:18:54,990 aspect would be because a host, 953 01:18:54,990 --> 01:18:57,930 I would assume wouldn't necessarily be willing 954 01:18:57,930 --> 01:19:01,830 to enforce that if there is an accommodation, 955 01:19:01,830 --> 01:19:05,380 a review that's involved, and anything like that. 956 01:19:05,380 --> 01:19:07,620 I would think that what I would support 957 01:19:07,620 --> 01:19:09,390 is if we referred this back to staff, 958 01:19:09,390 --> 01:19:14,310 this part and enact the by-law as it was 959 01:19:14,310 --> 01:19:15,610 that came to committee, 'cause I think 960 01:19:15,610 --> 01:19:17,430 that's a good by-law as it was written, 961 01:19:17,430 --> 01:19:21,150 and it does give us more, I guess, protection as a city. 962 01:19:21,150 --> 01:19:24,630 But if I wanted to do something like this, 963 01:19:24,630 --> 01:19:25,850 I'd need more information on that, 964 01:19:25,850 --> 01:19:26,760 and that'd have to be separate. 965 01:19:26,760 --> 01:19:29,110 So if we're not able to do that, 966 01:19:29,110 --> 01:19:36,140 then I'll have to vote both A and B down. 967 01:19:36,140 --> 01:19:37,760 - Councilor Hopkins, you're next. 968 01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:39,060 - Yeah, thank you, your worship. 969 01:19:39,060 --> 01:19:42,720 And thank you to the counselors for bringing this forward. 970 01:19:42,720 --> 01:19:45,610 I find these amendments satisfactory. 971 01:19:45,610 --> 01:19:48,230 I don't wanna get too much into the weeds here at council, 972 01:19:48,230 --> 01:19:53,190 but for me, ultimately, this new by-law 973 01:19:53,190 --> 01:19:57,310 is to preserve the rental housing stock. 974 01:19:57,310 --> 01:19:59,280 It doesn't really change that. 975 01:19:59,280 --> 01:20:03,480 Really, the whole idea is to preserve the rental stock, 976 01:20:03,480 --> 01:20:06,520 so I am okay with these amendments 977 01:20:06,520 --> 01:20:14,490 and with the committee recommendation as well. 978 01:20:14,490 --> 01:20:17,890 - Okay, any other speakers on the amendments? 979 01:20:17,890 --> 01:20:22,460 And we'll do them separate, so, okay, see none. 980 01:20:22,460 --> 01:20:24,170 Okay, we're doing A first. 981 01:20:24,170 --> 01:20:29,570 A is the piece about the owner being present 982 01:20:29,570 --> 01:20:32,230 during this day, so hosting. 983 01:20:32,230 --> 01:20:36,710 We're gonna open A for voting. 984 01:20:36,710 --> 01:20:43,060 Councilor Pervil votes yes. 985 01:20:43,060 --> 01:20:46,970 - Opposed in the vote, motion carries 12 to three. 986 01:20:46,970 --> 01:20:51,530 - And B is the provision that permits two adults 987 01:20:51,530 --> 01:20:53,210 with children's age 12 years or under, 988 01:20:53,210 --> 01:20:58,390 which replaces the two years or under. 989 01:20:58,390 --> 01:21:03,440 So that is the change going from two to 12. 990 01:21:03,440 --> 01:21:04,230 Everybody's clear. 991 01:21:04,230 --> 01:21:07,420 Okay, we'll open that for voting. 992 01:21:07,420 --> 01:21:14,270 - Councilor Pervil votes yes. 993 01:21:14,270 --> 01:21:19,910 - Opposed in the vote, motion carries 13 to two. 994 01:21:19,910 --> 01:21:21,160 - Now look, Councilor Frankly willing 995 01:21:21,160 --> 01:21:22,840 to move the as amended motion. 996 01:21:22,840 --> 01:21:26,320 Okay, as amended, seconded by Deputy Mayor Lewis still. 997 01:21:26,320 --> 01:21:28,020 All right, on the as amended motion, 998 01:21:28,020 --> 01:21:30,910 any further discussion? 999 01:21:30,910 --> 01:21:33,780 Councilor Trossa. 1000 01:21:33,780 --> 01:21:38,220 - So if I understand the situation, I've been placed in, 1001 01:21:38,220 --> 01:21:43,980 if this is defeated, then the very badly needed amendments 1002 01:21:43,980 --> 01:21:47,550 to the by-law are a decided matter of council 1003 01:21:47,550 --> 01:21:50,680 for the rest of this term, and we're done. 1004 01:21:50,680 --> 01:21:53,040 - So I feel as if I'm in a situation 1005 01:21:53,040 --> 01:21:55,160 and I wanna make sure I understand procedurally 1006 01:21:55,160 --> 01:22:01,100 what's going on, I feel as if I need to support 1007 01:22:01,100 --> 01:22:05,240 this motion, albeit with fundamental flaws 1008 01:22:05,240 --> 01:22:08,830 that I think are really gonna complicate the enforcement. 1009 01:22:08,830 --> 01:22:11,360 We're gonna ask children to produce ID 1010 01:22:11,360 --> 01:22:14,930 to show how old they are, the children usually carry ID, 1011 01:22:14,930 --> 01:22:16,390 showing how old they are. 1012 01:22:16,390 --> 01:22:18,720 I think this is a terrible amendment. 1013 01:22:18,720 --> 01:22:21,440 I voted no on it, so I don't want anybody to think, 1014 01:22:21,440 --> 01:22:23,860 I'm gonna vote yes on this overall motion, 1015 01:22:23,860 --> 01:22:26,500 'cause we very badly need these amendments, 1016 01:22:26,500 --> 01:22:29,810 but I just, I need to say I'm very unhappy 1017 01:22:29,810 --> 01:22:32,220 about these amendments, and I certainly hope 1018 01:22:32,220 --> 01:22:35,050 that they don't rise to the level of creating 1019 01:22:35,050 --> 01:22:39,470 yet another loophole in this by-law 1020 01:22:39,470 --> 01:22:43,710 the enforcement of which has proven problematic. 1021 01:22:43,710 --> 01:22:46,170 So I think we've done a disservice here, 1022 01:22:46,170 --> 01:22:49,320 and there's not much more I can say here, 1023 01:22:49,320 --> 01:22:53,310 I'm not going to make another amendment, 1024 01:22:53,310 --> 01:22:56,820 other than to ask, can I make an amendment 1025 01:22:56,820 --> 01:23:01,880 saying we're going to enact the by-law as submitted 1026 01:23:01,880 --> 01:23:04,840 and have the amendments referred back to the committee 1027 01:23:04,840 --> 01:23:06,960 with respect to the children's age, 1028 01:23:06,960 --> 01:23:08,060 or is that out of order? 1029 01:23:08,060 --> 01:23:09,250 - No, that's out of order. 1030 01:23:09,250 --> 01:23:11,310 We just had those votes. 1031 01:23:11,310 --> 01:23:13,650 You voted in the contrary, you weren't successful, 1032 01:23:13,650 --> 01:23:15,710 majority of council has changed it, 1033 01:23:15,710 --> 01:23:18,980 and so you are in the situation as you described, 1034 01:23:18,980 --> 01:23:20,780 that's how democracy goes, 1035 01:23:20,780 --> 01:23:22,730 so majority want to proceed this way, 1036 01:23:22,730 --> 01:23:23,720 you might not be happy with it, 1037 01:23:23,720 --> 01:23:25,510 so you can either support it all, 1038 01:23:25,510 --> 01:23:27,850 or you can vote against it all, but it's all together now. 1039 01:23:27,850 --> 01:23:30,720 - That's fair, and I will be supporting 1040 01:23:30,720 --> 01:23:32,860 the flawed by-law that's in front of us, 1041 01:23:32,860 --> 01:23:37,290 and as soon as we can, next council term, 1042 01:23:37,290 --> 01:23:39,740 if circumstances are such, I will try to fix it. 1043 01:23:39,740 --> 01:23:41,770 Thank you very much. 1044 01:23:41,770 --> 01:23:44,440 - Okay, others to the as amended motion, 1045 01:23:44,440 --> 01:23:46,950 Councillor Frank and then Councillor Ferra. 1046 01:23:46,950 --> 01:23:49,010 - Thank you, yes, I'll be supporting this as amended motion. 1047 01:23:49,010 --> 01:23:50,960 I think we've actually improved it. 1048 01:23:50,960 --> 01:23:53,190 Additionally, if anyone is concerned in regards 1049 01:23:53,190 --> 01:23:56,210 to the age limitations, the by-law that was passed 1050 01:23:56,210 --> 01:23:58,630 at committee did have age limitations of two, 1051 01:23:58,630 --> 01:24:00,580 and now it is 12, and so either way, 1052 01:24:00,580 --> 01:24:03,590 whether the original committee recommendation had passed 1053 01:24:03,590 --> 01:24:05,180 or the one that just got amended, 1054 01:24:05,180 --> 01:24:07,010 there would have been age requirement, 1055 01:24:07,010 --> 01:24:08,640 which, so if we're concerned about people 1056 01:24:08,640 --> 01:24:13,220 producing documentation, would have happened both ways. 1057 01:24:13,220 --> 01:24:16,970 Thanks. - That's a fair. 1058 01:24:16,970 --> 01:24:18,150 - Thank you for that. 1059 01:24:18,150 --> 01:24:22,930 I, like I'm gonna support the as amended motion. 1060 01:24:22,930 --> 01:24:25,240 Yeah, I worry about any loopholes 1061 01:24:25,240 --> 01:24:26,990 that we may have opened up here as well, 1062 01:24:26,990 --> 01:24:28,580 and I know that they're gonna reveal themselves. 1063 01:24:28,580 --> 01:24:31,630 I hope that there's not, but there are some questions 1064 01:24:31,630 --> 01:24:33,620 that I have, and I know that as I guess, 1065 01:24:33,620 --> 01:24:35,650 we get things rolling, they will come up. 1066 01:24:35,650 --> 01:24:37,930 I will also say, you know, a two-year-old, 1067 01:24:37,930 --> 01:24:41,980 12-year-old is easily distinguished by just by looking. 1068 01:24:41,980 --> 01:24:45,810 But I will say, I do wanna see this, 1069 01:24:45,810 --> 01:24:48,270 I do wanna see the extra protections and the extra actions 1070 01:24:48,270 --> 01:24:49,860 from the new by-law come in as quick as I can. 1071 01:24:49,860 --> 01:24:51,840 So I guess I'll ask with the amendment 1072 01:24:51,840 --> 01:24:54,780 and it coming back as a by-law to the next council. 1073 01:24:54,780 --> 01:24:56,810 So that's one cycle away. 1074 01:24:56,810 --> 01:24:59,950 Is it right to assume that it's gonna just be a month behind 1075 01:24:59,950 --> 01:25:03,130 on the, as we enact that by-law? 1076 01:25:03,130 --> 01:25:04,940 - So we're passing the by-law tonight, 1077 01:25:04,940 --> 01:25:08,340 because we have that by-law, because both of these passed. 1078 01:25:08,340 --> 01:25:09,850 The only thing we didn't have is if one passed 1079 01:25:09,850 --> 01:25:10,660 and the other didn't. 1080 01:25:10,660 --> 01:25:17,080 So council's added to the motion two things. 1081 01:25:17,080 --> 01:25:19,280 There's a by-law that represents those two things 1082 01:25:19,280 --> 01:25:22,340 and it's gonna be voted on tonight at by-laws. 1083 01:25:22,340 --> 01:25:24,300 So yeah, I'll let you ask whatever question you want, 1084 01:25:24,300 --> 01:25:26,300 but we're having a vote tonight on this. 1085 01:25:26,300 --> 01:25:27,120 - Okay, that's the answer. 1086 01:25:27,120 --> 01:25:31,150 So that, I guess, schedule will still continue 1087 01:25:31,150 --> 01:25:34,730 and we'll have the by-law as amended get enacted 1088 01:25:34,730 --> 01:25:36,700 when it's supposed to as it was at the committee. 1089 01:25:36,700 --> 01:25:39,620 Okay, all right, so like I said, 1090 01:25:39,620 --> 01:25:40,760 I worry about the loopholes, 1091 01:25:40,760 --> 01:25:42,380 but I am gonna support this 1092 01:25:42,380 --> 01:25:43,840 because we do have those extra protections 1093 01:25:43,840 --> 01:25:46,560 and I guess we'll see how it translates out 1094 01:25:46,560 --> 01:25:48,600 into the real world. 1095 01:25:50,500 --> 01:25:52,490 - Councilor ramen, go ahead. 1096 01:25:52,490 --> 01:25:53,490 - Thank you and through you. 1097 01:25:53,490 --> 01:25:56,360 Just wanted to say, although I didn't support 1098 01:25:56,360 --> 01:25:58,630 all of the amendments, I'm happy to support 1099 01:25:58,630 --> 01:25:59,470 what's in front of us 1100 01:25:59,470 --> 01:26:02,020 because I do still see it as improvement overall. 1101 01:26:02,020 --> 01:26:04,850 So thanks to colleagues for their work on this 1102 01:26:04,850 --> 01:26:06,920 and thanks for the engagement from the public on this. 1103 01:26:06,920 --> 01:26:08,550 And I wanted to say thank you to staff 1104 01:26:08,550 --> 01:26:09,790 'cause I know they went out of their way 1105 01:26:09,790 --> 01:26:12,020 to communicate with the public 1106 01:26:12,020 --> 01:26:14,570 as we were in cycle committee cycle 1107 01:26:14,570 --> 01:26:16,560 in between council on this matter as well, 1108 01:26:16,560 --> 01:26:17,960 just to let them know where things were. 1109 01:26:17,960 --> 01:26:20,930 So thanks for that as well. 1110 01:26:20,930 --> 01:26:24,250 - All right, any other speakers on the as amended motion? 1111 01:26:24,250 --> 01:26:32,100 Seeing none, we're gonna vote on that now. 1112 01:26:32,100 --> 01:26:37,490 - Councilor Perbal votes, yes. 1113 01:26:37,490 --> 01:26:38,290 - Opposed in the vote. 1114 01:26:38,290 --> 01:26:43,460 Motion carries 14 to one. 1115 01:26:43,460 --> 01:26:45,640 - Sir, ramen, go ahead. 1116 01:26:45,640 --> 01:26:46,470 - Thank you. 1117 01:26:46,470 --> 01:26:48,370 I'm introducing item nine, which is 4.2, 1118 01:26:48,370 --> 01:26:50,860 which is the restricting city funded organization 1119 01:26:50,860 --> 01:26:52,760 from distributing safe use drugs, 1120 01:26:52,760 --> 01:26:56,420 smoking supplies. 1121 01:26:56,420 --> 01:26:57,920 - Okay, that's on the floor. 1122 01:26:57,920 --> 01:27:03,330 Councilor Stevenson, go ahead. 1123 01:27:03,330 --> 01:27:04,490 - Thank you. 1124 01:27:04,490 --> 01:27:07,100 At committee, my letter was received, 1125 01:27:07,100 --> 01:27:09,130 but the motion was not put forward. 1126 01:27:09,130 --> 01:27:10,950 So I would like to bring it forward now. 1127 01:27:10,950 --> 01:27:12,820 I am looking for a seconder 1128 01:27:12,820 --> 01:27:17,150 so that we are able to debate and vote on this publicly. 1129 01:27:17,150 --> 01:27:18,240 - Do you wanna just read your motion 1130 01:27:18,240 --> 01:27:20,230 and then I'll ask for a seconder, if you could. 1131 01:27:20,230 --> 01:27:24,000 - Yeah, but notwithstanding the city's current policy 1132 01:27:24,000 --> 01:27:27,030 endorsing the whole of community system response, 1133 01:27:27,030 --> 01:27:29,020 the following actions be taken. 1134 01:27:29,020 --> 01:27:31,370 A, civic administration be directed 1135 01:27:31,370 --> 01:27:33,600 to implement the following restriction, 1136 01:27:33,600 --> 01:27:36,230 effective April 1st, 2026, 1137 01:27:36,230 --> 01:27:39,900 with respect to all city services and all organizations 1138 01:27:39,900 --> 01:27:42,410 receiving funding through the city of London, 1139 01:27:42,410 --> 01:27:44,970 excluding the Middlesex London Health Unit. 1140 01:27:44,970 --> 01:27:49,230 The distribution of safe use substance inhalation supplies, 1141 01:27:49,230 --> 01:27:54,060 including but not limited to pipes, foil, straws, 1142 01:27:54,060 --> 01:27:56,020 cookers and snort kits, 1143 01:27:56,020 --> 01:27:59,090 be prohibited within the core area, 1144 01:27:59,090 --> 01:28:04,640 meaning downtown, midtown and Oldies Village. 1145 01:28:04,640 --> 01:28:11,850 - Okay, I look for a seconder for that. 1146 01:28:11,850 --> 01:28:17,130 I see no, okay, I see a seconder in Councilor Hillier. 1147 01:28:17,130 --> 01:28:18,800 So if you wanna have debate, 1148 01:28:18,800 --> 01:28:21,110 you could have debate now, Councilor. 1149 01:28:21,110 --> 01:28:21,940 - Okay, thank you. 1150 01:28:21,940 --> 01:28:24,140 I'm gonna hold my comments. 1151 01:28:24,140 --> 01:28:26,110 - Okay, is there any other speakers to this? 1152 01:28:26,110 --> 01:28:29,240 This is now the amendment that Councilor Stevenson 1153 01:28:29,240 --> 01:28:37,950 just read out, so I'll look to speakers on that. 1154 01:28:37,950 --> 01:28:40,140 There's no speakers here, Councilor. 1155 01:28:40,140 --> 01:28:43,330 If you wanna provide some context again. 1156 01:28:43,330 --> 01:28:45,000 - Okay, I will then, yes. 1157 01:28:45,000 --> 01:28:46,950 So the reason I brought this forward 1158 01:28:46,950 --> 01:28:50,810 was to help support the goal that we have regarding 1159 01:28:50,810 --> 01:28:55,780 reducing open public drug use within our core area. 1160 01:28:55,780 --> 01:28:59,530 We currently have the London Police Services 1161 01:28:59,530 --> 01:29:01,040 Open Air Drug Strategy, 1162 01:29:01,040 --> 01:29:05,050 where they are working on addressing those issues 1163 01:29:05,050 --> 01:29:06,680 within our core area. 1164 01:29:06,680 --> 01:29:09,150 And so to me, it made sense not to have 1165 01:29:09,150 --> 01:29:13,250 two taxpayer funded services working at cross purposes. 1166 01:29:13,250 --> 01:29:17,190 So that within this area where we've committed 1167 01:29:17,190 --> 01:29:20,340 to reducing open public drug use, 1168 01:29:20,340 --> 01:29:25,920 that we not be handing out pipes for crack and meth, 1169 01:29:25,920 --> 01:29:29,470 foil and straws for fentanyl, 1170 01:29:29,470 --> 01:29:33,680 and snort kits, again, just within this core area 1171 01:29:33,680 --> 01:29:35,990 where we're focused on reducing it. 1172 01:29:35,990 --> 01:29:38,740 And my understanding is through the committee 1173 01:29:38,740 --> 01:29:41,290 that London Cares had already agreed 1174 01:29:41,290 --> 01:29:44,120 to not hand it out along Dundas Street 1175 01:29:44,120 --> 01:29:46,270 from the river to Egerton. 1176 01:29:46,270 --> 01:29:50,610 So this would just be really, it's a two block width 1177 01:29:50,610 --> 01:29:52,280 on the north side of Queens. 1178 01:29:52,280 --> 01:29:54,990 You'd still be able to access this. 1179 01:29:54,990 --> 01:29:58,090 We've got harm reduction outreach teams 1180 01:29:58,090 --> 01:30:01,790 through HIV/AIDS, the health unit has mobile, 1181 01:30:01,790 --> 01:30:04,650 or in HIV/AIDS has mobile delivery service 1182 01:30:04,650 --> 01:30:07,790 where people can get these drug supplies 1183 01:30:07,790 --> 01:30:11,860 delivered to their homes free. 1184 01:30:11,860 --> 01:30:13,950 It's also available at the Middlesex Health Unit 1185 01:30:13,950 --> 01:30:15,260 and various other locations. 1186 01:30:15,260 --> 01:30:18,770 So this isn't about not allowing people to have access. 1187 01:30:18,770 --> 01:30:23,950 It's about stopping the taxpayer funded services 1188 01:30:23,950 --> 01:30:27,410 that are working against each other in a particular area. 1189 01:30:27,410 --> 01:30:29,790 So I'm hoping that council will support on this. 1190 01:30:29,790 --> 01:30:32,720 As I said, London Cares has already agreed to do it 1191 01:30:32,720 --> 01:30:36,400 indefinitely along Dundas Street. 1192 01:30:36,400 --> 01:30:38,190 This would just widen it a little bit 1193 01:30:38,190 --> 01:30:40,690 and go up Richmond Street as well. 1194 01:30:40,690 --> 01:30:43,830 And people will still be able to access what they need to. 1195 01:30:43,830 --> 01:30:47,450 And the other thing is that this does not include needles. 1196 01:30:47,450 --> 01:30:50,560 It's only the inhalation supplies. 1197 01:30:50,560 --> 01:30:54,940 So I'm hoping to have my colleagues support on this. 1198 01:30:54,940 --> 01:30:59,280 - Okay, any other speakers to this amendment? 1199 01:30:59,280 --> 01:31:00,880 Go ahead, Councillor Ferra. 1200 01:31:00,880 --> 01:31:01,700 - Thank you, Mayor. 1201 01:31:01,700 --> 01:31:04,240 I guess I gotta speak to this one. 1202 01:31:04,240 --> 01:31:06,950 Like I understand the intent of the direction, 1203 01:31:06,950 --> 01:31:10,390 but this motion, I don't really know. 1204 01:31:10,390 --> 01:31:12,250 We really have any control on that. 1205 01:31:12,250 --> 01:31:14,460 Like I do hear that the service agencies 1206 01:31:14,460 --> 01:31:16,870 have already voluntarily said that they would 1207 01:31:16,870 --> 01:31:19,690 not distribute those kits. 1208 01:31:19,690 --> 01:31:22,110 But I also know that if those kits are being distributed 1209 01:31:22,110 --> 01:31:25,000 outside of the core area or a block therein, 1210 01:31:25,000 --> 01:31:27,020 it doesn't mean that those kits can be moved 1211 01:31:27,020 --> 01:31:29,350 into the area or not. 1212 01:31:29,350 --> 01:31:32,080 I would like to understand how that would be operationalized, 1213 01:31:32,080 --> 01:31:33,650 how it would be enforced. 1214 01:31:33,650 --> 01:31:37,970 And if it's intent is to reduce open drug use, 1215 01:31:37,970 --> 01:31:40,920 I don't think people who are suffering 1216 01:31:40,920 --> 01:31:45,970 from substance use disorder are going to be able to, 1217 01:31:45,970 --> 01:31:48,010 I don't think that's gonna really have, 1218 01:31:48,010 --> 01:31:50,740 I guess it's gonna achieve its intent. 1219 01:31:50,740 --> 01:31:53,020 I would just wonder, I guess the first thing I would ask, 1220 01:31:53,020 --> 01:31:55,720 and I know that we spoke at committee about this, 1221 01:31:55,720 --> 01:31:58,140 but within our municipal service contract agreements, 1222 01:31:58,140 --> 01:32:03,280 do we even require the service agencies 1223 01:32:03,280 --> 01:32:04,880 to provide those kits? 1224 01:32:04,880 --> 01:32:08,430 From what I understood, in those contract agreements, 1225 01:32:08,430 --> 01:32:12,160 we say harm reduction approaches, 1226 01:32:12,160 --> 01:32:15,350 but we don't actually have any type of line items, 1227 01:32:15,350 --> 01:32:17,750 budget line items that purchase those kits, 1228 01:32:17,750 --> 01:32:19,170 or actually distribute those kits. 1229 01:32:19,170 --> 01:32:20,000 And from what I understood, 1230 01:32:20,000 --> 01:32:21,610 I thought the Middlesex London Health Unit 1231 01:32:21,610 --> 01:32:24,490 followed the Provincial Health Standards, 1232 01:32:24,490 --> 01:32:25,580 which does require that. 1233 01:32:25,580 --> 01:32:28,390 So I would just wonder, we don't have the ability 1234 01:32:28,390 --> 01:32:33,390 to have the province change the Provincial Health Standards. 1235 01:32:33,390 --> 01:32:35,720 That is within their health standards, 1236 01:32:35,720 --> 01:32:37,390 and then the Middlesex London Health Unit 1237 01:32:37,390 --> 01:32:39,050 has to follow those health standards. 1238 01:32:39,050 --> 01:32:43,880 So I'm just a little confused on the operationalization 1239 01:32:43,880 --> 01:32:44,690 of this. 1240 01:32:44,690 --> 01:32:51,250 I can provide some, I guess, enlightenment for me on this. 1241 01:32:51,250 --> 01:32:53,980 - Okay, so let me start with some stuff, 1242 01:32:53,980 --> 01:32:54,860 and then I'll go to staff. 1243 01:32:54,860 --> 01:32:58,220 So at committee, the question was asked, you're right, 1244 01:32:58,220 --> 01:33:00,920 and it was responded to by staff. 1245 01:33:00,920 --> 01:33:06,150 There's nothing in a contract that compels anybody 1246 01:33:06,150 --> 01:33:08,390 to hand out harm reduction kits. 1247 01:33:08,390 --> 01:33:10,630 The only exception to that is the emergency treatment fund 1248 01:33:10,630 --> 01:33:11,540 with the federal government, 1249 01:33:11,540 --> 01:33:15,180 which is out of money and completed by tomorrow. 1250 01:33:15,180 --> 01:33:16,930 I think April 1st is when it ends. 1251 01:33:17,820 --> 01:33:19,520 But there's no contract between the city 1252 01:33:19,520 --> 01:33:21,530 that requires an agency too. 1253 01:33:21,530 --> 01:33:24,400 The motion before us is essentially the municipality 1254 01:33:24,400 --> 01:33:27,400 using its spending and contract power to say, 1255 01:33:27,400 --> 01:33:28,690 even though we're not asking you to do something, 1256 01:33:28,690 --> 01:33:30,230 you can't do something. 1257 01:33:30,230 --> 01:33:34,020 So I'll go to our staff for any additional context, 1258 01:33:34,020 --> 01:33:39,930 but I'm happy to get you so many answers you need. 1259 01:33:39,930 --> 01:33:42,280 - Thank you, and through you, your worship, that's correct. 1260 01:33:42,280 --> 01:33:45,500 The only reference to harm reduction kits 1261 01:33:45,500 --> 01:33:48,530 or a safe use skier is through the Health Canada contract, 1262 01:33:48,530 --> 01:33:51,400 and that is the ETF emergency treatment fund 1263 01:33:51,400 --> 01:33:53,830 that actually expires today. 1264 01:33:53,830 --> 01:33:56,820 We do have some other contracts 1265 01:33:56,820 --> 01:34:00,360 that are with regards to outreach, 1266 01:34:00,360 --> 01:34:02,590 those being at LOSA and London Cares, 1267 01:34:02,590 --> 01:34:05,860 but neither of those contracts have any funds attached 1268 01:34:05,860 --> 01:34:11,380 to the procurement or obtaining of any harm reduction kits. 1269 01:34:11,380 --> 01:34:12,710 - Go ahead, Councilor. 1270 01:34:12,710 --> 01:34:13,550 - Thank you. 1271 01:34:13,550 --> 01:34:16,300 So like I wanna see you open drug use in our core 1272 01:34:16,300 --> 01:34:17,780 and throughout the city, obviously reduce 1273 01:34:17,780 --> 01:34:19,340 as much as anybody else does. 1274 01:34:19,340 --> 01:34:21,370 And I wanna see individuals get help 1275 01:34:21,370 --> 01:34:22,610 as much as anybody else does. 1276 01:34:22,610 --> 01:34:25,440 And I wanna see that help actually get translated into reality. 1277 01:34:25,440 --> 01:34:29,030 I wanna see people actually have the resources 1278 01:34:29,030 --> 01:34:31,510 or the spaces to get that help, 1279 01:34:31,510 --> 01:34:34,500 to actually get that real wraparound healthcare support, 1280 01:34:34,500 --> 01:34:38,250 to get that real pathway to treatment and recovery. 1281 01:34:38,250 --> 01:34:39,770 I wanna see all of that. 1282 01:34:39,770 --> 01:34:42,800 But I also know that the more we confuse 1283 01:34:42,800 --> 01:34:45,670 on who's responsible for what or who can do what, 1284 01:34:45,670 --> 01:34:47,070 the worse it gets. 1285 01:34:47,070 --> 01:34:49,900 We need to, at this point in time, 1286 01:34:49,900 --> 01:34:54,070 really start to figure out that we need to understand 1287 01:34:54,070 --> 01:34:54,900 who's responsible. 1288 01:34:54,900 --> 01:34:56,320 We need to understand what we can do, 1289 01:34:56,320 --> 01:34:58,370 what we can't do and what we are doing 1290 01:34:58,370 --> 01:35:00,470 and what we are not doing. 1291 01:35:00,470 --> 01:35:03,130 A motion like this, I feel like, 1292 01:35:03,130 --> 01:35:06,950 fogs the understanding of really what's going on here 1293 01:35:06,950 --> 01:35:10,320 because we don't actually do this in the first place. 1294 01:35:10,320 --> 01:35:13,250 This comes from direction from the province. 1295 01:35:13,250 --> 01:35:16,180 And I think that the more we kind of step in 1296 01:35:16,180 --> 01:35:17,950 and say we can do this, 1297 01:35:17,950 --> 01:35:20,710 we're gonna save the day. 1298 01:35:20,710 --> 01:35:22,590 And then we can't because we don't even actually have 1299 01:35:22,590 --> 01:35:25,890 the enforceability for it or the accountability for it, 1300 01:35:25,890 --> 01:35:27,280 that will confuse people more. 1301 01:35:27,280 --> 01:35:30,930 And that just muddies the water, muddies the water's here. 1302 01:35:30,930 --> 01:35:33,020 I think we should really start kind of focusing 1303 01:35:33,020 --> 01:35:35,880 on a more of an enlightenment kind of perspective, 1304 01:35:35,880 --> 01:35:38,770 really kind of pointing out really who's responsible 1305 01:35:38,770 --> 01:35:40,780 for what, what we're trying to do, what the intent is, 1306 01:35:40,780 --> 01:35:44,520 where the gaps are, what exists and what doesn't exist. 1307 01:35:44,520 --> 01:35:46,480 And the more we do that and have that conversation, 1308 01:35:46,480 --> 01:35:48,440 the more we can all have the same voice 1309 01:35:48,440 --> 01:35:51,160 and point to the same entity who's responsible 1310 01:35:51,160 --> 01:35:52,940 for these things and see if we can actually get 1311 01:35:52,940 --> 01:35:54,320 some proper movement here. 1312 01:35:54,320 --> 01:35:56,500 So I'm not gonna support the motion. 1313 01:35:56,500 --> 01:36:01,570 I wanna see, you know, nobody openly use in the city 1314 01:36:01,570 --> 01:36:03,610 and in the core, I wanna see that. 1315 01:36:03,610 --> 01:36:05,080 This motion's not gonna solve that. 1316 01:36:05,080 --> 01:36:07,570 This motion is just gonna confuse. 1317 01:36:07,570 --> 01:36:09,570 And this motion is gonna get us further away 1318 01:36:09,570 --> 01:36:13,200 from actually seeing a real tangible change for the good. 1319 01:36:13,200 --> 01:36:16,780 So I can't support the motion as it is. 1320 01:36:16,780 --> 01:36:19,710 - Okay, any other speakers to this? 1321 01:36:19,710 --> 01:36:24,770 I'm gonna go ahead, Councillor Troisab. 1322 01:36:24,770 --> 01:36:26,450 - Well through the chair, thank you so much 1323 01:36:26,450 --> 01:36:30,310 for what you just said because it needed to be said. 1324 01:36:30,310 --> 01:36:33,520 I do have a question though for staff. 1325 01:36:33,520 --> 01:36:35,080 Civic administration be directed 1326 01:36:35,080 --> 01:36:37,600 to implement the following restrictions. 1327 01:36:37,600 --> 01:36:39,410 How do you read that? 1328 01:36:39,410 --> 01:36:41,650 What exactly, if this passes, 1329 01:36:41,650 --> 01:36:45,280 what exactly would you do to implement this? 1330 01:36:45,280 --> 01:36:48,680 And it's with respect to all city services, 1331 01:36:48,680 --> 01:36:52,030 all city services and all organizations receiving funding. 1332 01:36:52,030 --> 01:37:00,940 So how would you implement this? 1333 01:37:00,940 --> 01:37:05,350 - Be a second, not letting the confer, Councillor. 1334 01:37:05,350 --> 01:37:13,890 - Okay, go ahead. 1335 01:37:13,890 --> 01:37:15,970 - Thank you and through your worship. 1336 01:37:15,970 --> 01:37:17,540 I think we'd need to take it back 1337 01:37:17,540 --> 01:37:20,370 and take an assessment of what we do fund 1338 01:37:20,370 --> 01:37:23,350 and make determinations on any future contracts. 1339 01:37:23,350 --> 01:37:26,740 I wonder if my colleague, Mr. Latiser, 1340 01:37:26,740 --> 01:37:31,390 might wish to add anything to that. 1341 01:37:31,390 --> 01:37:38,450 - Go ahead, Mr. Latiser. 1342 01:37:38,450 --> 01:37:40,740 - Through your worship, currently we don't, 1343 01:37:40,740 --> 01:37:43,780 we don't offer funding as was mentioned earlier. 1344 01:37:43,780 --> 01:37:48,690 It's somewhat related to harm reduction 1345 01:37:48,690 --> 01:37:50,440 in the current existing contracts. 1346 01:37:50,440 --> 01:37:54,380 We could ask certainly our outreach partners, 1347 01:37:54,380 --> 01:37:56,410 but it gets into whether or not 1348 01:37:56,410 --> 01:38:00,070 we have the legal ability to restrict them 1349 01:38:00,070 --> 01:38:02,020 from doing it outside of the contract 1350 01:38:02,020 --> 01:38:03,010 that they hold with the city. 1351 01:38:03,010 --> 01:38:10,300 So that would be, I would suggest a legal question as well. 1352 01:38:10,300 --> 01:38:12,430 - That's a true sound. 1353 01:38:12,430 --> 01:38:14,750 - I'm wondering if the solicitor would like 1354 01:38:14,750 --> 01:38:16,130 to add to that last piece. 1355 01:38:16,130 --> 01:38:20,470 So I don't have to ask my next question. 1356 01:38:20,470 --> 01:38:24,470 - I can see if that's possible, go ahead. 1357 01:38:24,470 --> 01:38:25,510 - Thank you and through you. 1358 01:38:25,510 --> 01:38:32,440 I think certainly if Council wanted some additional legal advice 1359 01:38:32,440 --> 01:38:34,890 we could give it, I think we would have to go through 1360 01:38:34,890 --> 01:38:38,420 the contracts and look at how much we could 1361 01:38:38,420 --> 01:38:43,310 sort of micromanage what our service providers are doing. 1362 01:38:43,310 --> 01:38:47,520 Again, it's difficult because we're not currently funding 1363 01:38:47,520 --> 01:38:54,190 these so we're sort of dealing with proving a negative. 1364 01:38:54,190 --> 01:38:56,230 - Thank you and based through the chair 1365 01:38:56,230 --> 01:39:00,030 based on your last response and when it came before that, 1366 01:39:00,030 --> 01:39:04,830 I would suggest that this is a, 1367 01:39:04,830 --> 01:39:06,970 I'm trying to choose my words very carefully 1368 01:39:06,970 --> 01:39:10,090 so as not to have to deal with the point of privilege here, 1369 01:39:10,090 --> 01:39:13,890 but I just don't think this is a viable motion 1370 01:39:13,890 --> 01:39:15,100 the way it's written. 1371 01:39:15,100 --> 01:39:16,470 I don't think we can do this. 1372 01:39:16,470 --> 01:39:18,960 I think it would be a burden on staff 1373 01:39:18,960 --> 01:39:21,600 and I'm not sure, well, I'm sure it doesn't make any sense 1374 01:39:21,600 --> 01:39:23,970 from a policy point of view, but as draft did, 1375 01:39:23,970 --> 01:39:27,480 I think it's not necessary 'cause we're not doing it 1376 01:39:27,480 --> 01:39:29,260 but we're gonna do it anyway 1377 01:39:29,260 --> 01:39:31,030 because somebody wants to make the point. 1378 01:39:31,030 --> 01:39:35,080 So I really hope that people don't support this. 1379 01:39:35,080 --> 01:39:39,080 I am not going to ask the further question to the solicitor 1380 01:39:39,080 --> 01:39:41,820 as to whether we would even have the authority to pass this 1381 01:39:41,820 --> 01:39:46,490 because I don't wanna have to go into a closed session 1382 01:39:46,490 --> 01:39:47,480 to discuss this. 1383 01:39:47,480 --> 01:39:49,640 I think I know what the answer to that is 1384 01:39:49,640 --> 01:39:51,800 but I'm not gonna put everybody through that. 1385 01:39:51,800 --> 01:39:57,610 So I'm just gonna say this is an ill-conceived, 1386 01:39:57,610 --> 01:40:03,340 poorly drafted, likely illegal and not practical. 1387 01:40:03,970 --> 01:40:05,390 Motion, that's just my opinion. 1388 01:40:05,390 --> 01:40:08,240 I'll say that's in my opinion, all those things I just said. 1389 01:40:08,240 --> 01:40:10,300 So please don't support this. 1390 01:40:10,300 --> 01:40:13,540 We need to come together as a community 1391 01:40:13,540 --> 01:40:15,720 and think about what our positive response 1392 01:40:15,720 --> 01:40:19,110 is gonna be to the many challenges that we're facing. 1393 01:40:19,110 --> 01:40:23,070 I feel that this is overly divisive 1394 01:40:23,070 --> 01:40:28,350 and it's not gonna result in any additional enforcement tools. 1395 01:40:28,350 --> 01:40:36,140 The final question I have is say somebody is aggrieved 1396 01:40:36,140 --> 01:40:41,660 and feels as if an agency has violated these rules. 1397 01:40:41,660 --> 01:40:43,910 We're saying that you can't do this 1398 01:40:43,910 --> 01:40:45,370 if you're a funded agency. 1399 01:40:45,370 --> 01:40:48,820 What mechanism are we going to put into place 1400 01:40:48,820 --> 01:40:54,210 to test such allegations should they arise? 1401 01:40:54,210 --> 01:40:56,900 - So I can go to our staff but I think their answer was, 1402 01:40:56,900 --> 01:41:00,360 they don't know that yet. 1403 01:41:00,360 --> 01:41:03,240 They would have to basically think about that 1404 01:41:03,240 --> 01:41:05,200 and see what would be possible. 1405 01:41:05,200 --> 01:41:09,320 But go ahead, Mr. Latiser. 1406 01:41:09,320 --> 01:41:11,580 - Through your worship, I think we'd have to take it back 1407 01:41:11,580 --> 01:41:13,240 and evaluate the current contracts 1408 01:41:13,240 --> 01:41:15,500 and the legalities around those contracts as well. 1409 01:41:15,500 --> 01:41:17,360 So to give an answer at this point, 1410 01:41:17,360 --> 01:41:20,890 I think we'd have to do a bit more research into it. 1411 01:41:20,890 --> 01:41:27,670 - And these contracts through the chair are expiring when? 1412 01:41:27,670 --> 01:41:30,810 - Go to Ms. Wilcox. 1413 01:41:30,810 --> 01:41:32,130 - Through you, your worship. 1414 01:41:32,130 --> 01:41:36,110 The ETF agreement expires March 31st. 1415 01:41:36,110 --> 01:41:39,130 So today there are other agreements. 1416 01:41:39,130 --> 01:41:42,950 So the ones noted with that LOSA and London CARES, 1417 01:41:42,950 --> 01:41:44,220 those were part of the extension 1418 01:41:44,220 --> 01:41:47,370 that was approved by Council a couple of cycles ago, 1419 01:41:47,370 --> 01:41:53,100 but they're not with regards to the ETF. 1420 01:41:53,100 --> 01:41:56,470 - So I would add to my objections that we're, 1421 01:41:56,470 --> 01:41:59,160 even if we passed this and even if there was a good reason 1422 01:41:59,160 --> 01:42:03,400 to pass it, we wouldn't be getting a lot of value out of it 1423 01:42:03,400 --> 01:42:06,600 in comparison to the amount of undetermined staff work 1424 01:42:06,600 --> 01:42:07,790 that this would take. 1425 01:42:07,790 --> 01:42:09,490 And that, you don't have to respond to that. 1426 01:42:09,490 --> 01:42:12,930 That's just another good reason, in my opinion, 1427 01:42:12,930 --> 01:42:14,980 to just reject this motion. 1428 01:42:14,980 --> 01:42:18,120 Thank you very much. 1429 01:42:18,120 --> 01:42:20,290 - Okay, and I appreciate the council 1430 01:42:20,290 --> 01:42:22,290 that you tried to square it into my opinion. 1431 01:42:22,290 --> 01:42:23,670 I'm still gonna just caution colleagues 1432 01:42:23,670 --> 01:42:26,040 that you can oppose something. 1433 01:42:26,040 --> 01:42:28,040 You can say, you disagree with it. 1434 01:42:28,040 --> 01:42:31,040 You can say, you don't think it's good public policy. 1435 01:42:31,040 --> 01:42:35,840 Trying to say things like, it's poorly drafted. 1436 01:42:35,840 --> 01:42:37,220 A number of colleagues will get support 1437 01:42:37,220 --> 01:42:39,320 from clerks in some cases and others, 1438 01:42:39,320 --> 01:42:43,700 and are trying to draft pieces that council can deal with. 1439 01:42:43,700 --> 01:42:45,700 So appreciate everything you said, 1440 01:42:45,700 --> 01:42:47,270 but let's just, I don't wanna have to deal 1441 01:42:47,270 --> 01:42:49,020 with points of personal privilege and things like that. 1442 01:42:49,020 --> 01:42:50,990 So appreciate that's on people's minds, 1443 01:42:50,990 --> 01:42:53,930 but we can avoid those with just cautious language 1444 01:42:53,930 --> 01:42:57,820 and thinking that colleagues are doing their best 1445 01:42:57,820 --> 01:43:00,040 to get things before us that we can act on. 1446 01:43:00,040 --> 01:43:03,710 I go to Councilor Pribble and then Councilor Ramen. 1447 01:43:03,710 --> 01:43:04,530 - Thank you, Chair. 1448 01:43:04,530 --> 01:43:06,720 I will not be supporting what's in front of us. 1449 01:43:06,720 --> 01:43:09,980 As already stated, the community organization 1450 01:43:09,980 --> 01:43:12,970 is already working with our London Police Services, 1451 01:43:12,970 --> 01:43:17,170 already one section of Dundas or downtown Dundas Place. 1452 01:43:17,170 --> 01:43:22,070 And the organization is open to enlarge the area 1453 01:43:23,240 --> 01:43:26,710 so I really think that for us to achieve something, 1454 01:43:26,710 --> 01:43:29,430 we don't have to always pass a motion. 1455 01:43:29,430 --> 01:43:32,300 We have two great organizations or a couple of them 1456 01:43:32,300 --> 01:43:34,780 that are working together already 1457 01:43:34,780 --> 01:43:37,910 and they are open-minded to enlarge this area. 1458 01:43:37,910 --> 01:43:41,120 So therefore, I don't think this is necessary 1459 01:43:41,120 --> 01:43:43,300 in addition to the other points that were stated 1460 01:43:43,300 --> 01:43:44,690 in the last five minutes. 1461 01:43:44,690 --> 01:43:45,910 I will not be supporting it. 1462 01:43:45,910 --> 01:43:49,390 Thank you, Chair. 1463 01:43:49,390 --> 01:43:51,090 - Councilor Ramen. 1464 01:43:51,090 --> 01:43:51,970 - Thank you and through you. 1465 01:43:51,970 --> 01:43:53,670 And I mean, it's not often that Councilor Pribble 1466 01:43:53,670 --> 01:43:55,940 and I agree completely, but that was one of those moments. 1467 01:43:55,940 --> 01:43:58,830 So thank you, Councilor Pribble, for what you just said. 1468 01:43:58,830 --> 01:44:03,320 I will say, I think we had some discussion about this. 1469 01:44:03,320 --> 01:44:08,360 The operationalization of this motion is quite challenging. 1470 01:44:08,360 --> 01:44:13,350 But what I agree has happened is that through the discussion, 1471 01:44:13,350 --> 01:44:16,300 we were able to hear about those collaborations 1472 01:44:16,300 --> 01:44:17,380 that are already happening, 1473 01:44:17,380 --> 01:44:20,050 the conversations that are already taking place, 1474 01:44:20,050 --> 01:44:22,410 which I always think is great in the public space 1475 01:44:22,410 --> 01:44:24,640 to be able to have those types of conversations. 1476 01:44:24,640 --> 01:44:26,870 So I won't be supporting what's in front of us. 1477 01:44:26,870 --> 01:44:29,550 I don't think that it's operational. 1478 01:44:29,550 --> 01:44:33,060 It can be operationalized at all at this point 1479 01:44:33,060 --> 01:44:36,010 and would require quite a bit of work from our staff 1480 01:44:36,010 --> 01:44:38,560 who have a number of items in front of them already. 1481 01:44:38,560 --> 01:44:41,450 So thanks for the time. 1482 01:44:41,450 --> 01:44:43,760 - Okay, any other speakers? 1483 01:44:43,760 --> 01:44:44,670 All right. 1484 01:44:44,670 --> 01:44:48,200 So this is on the amendment that's before you. 1485 01:44:48,200 --> 01:44:53,980 I wanna open that for voting. 1486 01:44:53,980 --> 01:45:09,260 - Councilor Pribble votes no. 1487 01:45:09,260 --> 01:45:15,300 - Opposed in the vote, motion fails two to 13. 1488 01:45:15,300 --> 01:45:20,380 - Okay, so back to the item as it came through committee, 1489 01:45:20,380 --> 01:45:21,730 which is put on the floor by Councillor ramen 1490 01:45:21,730 --> 01:45:26,780 and the other speakers to that. 1491 01:45:26,780 --> 01:45:35,360 Okay, seeing none, we're gonna open that for voting. 1492 01:45:35,360 --> 01:45:48,700 - Told the floor votes yes. 1493 01:45:48,700 --> 01:45:53,460 - Opposed in the vote, motion carries 15 to zero. 1494 01:45:53,460 --> 01:45:54,410 - Go ahead, Councillor ramen. 1495 01:45:54,410 --> 01:45:56,990 - Thank you, that concludes my report. 1496 01:45:56,990 --> 01:45:58,640 - Great, thank you for that. 1497 01:45:58,640 --> 01:46:00,060 Next up, we have the fifth report 1498 01:46:00,060 --> 01:46:02,690 of the Strategic Priorities and Policy Committee. 1499 01:46:02,690 --> 01:46:07,050 I will have Deputy Mary Lewis present that report. 1500 01:46:07,050 --> 01:46:08,790 - Thank you, worship and through you. 1501 01:46:08,790 --> 01:46:10,920 I have been asked to deal with item five. 1502 01:46:10,920 --> 01:46:14,850 That's the draft economic development strategy separately. 1503 01:46:14,850 --> 01:46:17,670 Councillor Stephen wishes to vote in the negative 1504 01:46:17,670 --> 01:46:18,880 as she did at committee. 1505 01:46:18,880 --> 01:46:22,490 Otherwise, I have had no other request to pull items. 1506 01:46:22,490 --> 01:46:24,780 So I'll have to see if anything else needs to be pulled 1507 01:46:24,780 --> 01:46:28,680 before I move one, three, four, six, seven and eight. 1508 01:46:28,680 --> 01:46:31,480 Okay, so five's gonna be dealt with separately. 1509 01:46:31,480 --> 01:46:36,130 Anybody want anything else dealt with separately? 1510 01:46:36,130 --> 01:46:39,470 Okay, seeing none, looks like you can move that motion. 1511 01:46:39,470 --> 01:46:41,570 All right, then I will move one through four 1512 01:46:41,570 --> 01:46:43,380 and six through eight. 1513 01:46:43,380 --> 01:46:44,460 All right, those items are on the floor. 1514 01:46:44,460 --> 01:46:49,360 Any discussion on those items? 1515 01:46:49,360 --> 01:46:54,100 Okay, I don't see anybody with discussion. 1516 01:46:54,100 --> 01:47:01,360 So we're gonna open that for voting. 1517 01:47:01,360 --> 01:47:14,220 - Let's roll with purple votes, yes. 1518 01:47:14,220 --> 01:47:18,340 - Councillor Stevenson. 1519 01:47:18,340 --> 01:47:19,130 - Opposed in the vote. 1520 01:47:19,130 --> 01:47:22,130 Motion carries 15 to zero. 1521 01:47:22,130 --> 01:47:24,920 - And you worship, I'm now prepared to put item five. 1522 01:47:24,920 --> 01:47:29,550 This is the draft economic development strategy on the floor. 1523 01:47:29,550 --> 01:47:30,340 All right, that's on the floor. 1524 01:47:30,340 --> 01:47:34,220 Any discussion on that? 1525 01:47:34,220 --> 01:47:36,270 I see none. 1526 01:47:36,270 --> 01:47:43,890 So we'll open that for voting. 1527 01:47:43,890 --> 01:47:47,750 - Let's roll with purple votes, yes. 1528 01:47:47,750 --> 01:47:51,620 - Motion carries 14 to one. 1529 01:47:51,620 --> 01:47:57,250 And that you worship concludes the fifth report of SPPC. 1530 01:47:57,250 --> 01:47:59,190 We're on to infrastructure and corporate service committee. 1531 01:47:59,190 --> 01:48:01,940 Councillor McAllister, were you intending to present, 1532 01:48:01,940 --> 01:48:03,150 have the vice chair to present, 1533 01:48:03,150 --> 01:48:07,120 or were you gonna present that remotely? 1534 01:48:07,120 --> 01:48:09,740 - No, my intention was for Councillor Frank to present that. 1535 01:48:09,740 --> 01:48:10,850 - All right, Councillor Frank, you're prepared 1536 01:48:10,850 --> 01:48:12,970 to present this report. 1537 01:48:12,970 --> 01:48:15,360 - Thank you, yes, it is a gift. 1538 01:48:15,360 --> 01:48:18,590 So I have many items to be pulled. 1539 01:48:18,590 --> 01:48:21,890 I have pull request for item 10, 11 1540 01:48:21,890 --> 01:48:26,860 for the staff circulated at it 14, 15, 16, and 19. 1541 01:48:26,860 --> 01:48:30,170 And I'm not sure if there's any others. 1542 01:48:30,170 --> 01:48:32,080 I can repeat myself though, 'cause I think some people, 1543 01:48:32,080 --> 01:48:37,170 okay, so 10, 11, 14, 15, 16, and 19 to be pulled. 1544 01:48:37,170 --> 01:48:40,300 I'm not sure if there's any others. 1545 01:48:40,300 --> 01:48:41,270 - Well, let me just check the C. 1546 01:48:41,270 --> 01:48:47,090 So right now we're gonna deal with 10, 11, 14, 15, 16, 1547 01:48:47,090 --> 01:48:52,830 and 19 separately. 1548 01:48:52,830 --> 01:48:53,790 Is everybody okay? 1549 01:48:53,790 --> 01:49:01,060 Does anybody want anything else done separately? 1550 01:49:01,060 --> 01:49:07,050 I don't see any, so why don't you make a motion then? 1551 01:49:07,050 --> 01:49:08,690 - Sure, yes, I will make a motion then 1552 01:49:08,690 --> 01:49:11,900 to move the remainder of the items. 1553 01:49:11,900 --> 01:49:14,540 - Okay, so just for clarity, we're gonna have 1554 01:49:14,540 --> 01:49:20,910 one through nine, 12, 13, 17, 18, and 20 through 23. 1555 01:49:20,910 --> 01:49:25,940 All moved by Councillor Frank. 1556 01:49:25,940 --> 01:49:28,300 I'll look to see if there's discussion 1557 01:49:28,300 --> 01:49:34,010 on any of those items. 1558 01:49:34,010 --> 01:49:40,020 You don't need a seconder. 1559 01:49:40,020 --> 01:49:48,230 We're just gonna need a second to get all this up. 1560 01:49:48,230 --> 01:49:51,310 I have myself on the list for one item. 1561 01:49:51,310 --> 01:49:55,480 I'll turn it over to Deputy Mayor Lewis. 1562 01:49:55,480 --> 01:50:00,390 I will take the chair and recognize Mayor Morgan. 1563 01:50:00,390 --> 01:50:03,390 - So colleagues, I'm gonna comment on item 23, 1564 01:50:03,390 --> 01:50:08,580 which is the contracts related to the N-Wave steam 1565 01:50:08,580 --> 01:50:09,820 service transitions. 1566 01:50:09,820 --> 01:50:13,550 I didn't speak at committee. 1567 01:50:13,550 --> 01:50:15,650 I actually had a call with the provincial government 1568 01:50:15,650 --> 01:50:20,700 to get to, but I just wanna express my extreme disappointment 1569 01:50:20,700 --> 01:50:23,790 in how this is played out. 1570 01:50:25,920 --> 01:50:31,170 This is a significant amount of taxpayer dollars 1571 01:50:31,170 --> 01:50:34,210 that we will tie up in providing boiler services 1572 01:50:34,210 --> 01:50:39,220 to multiple municipal buildings across the downtown. 1573 01:50:39,220 --> 01:50:41,250 A service that when you have a utility 1574 01:50:41,250 --> 01:50:43,390 providing a service, you expect to be there 1575 01:50:43,390 --> 01:50:45,290 for the foreseeable future. 1576 01:50:45,290 --> 01:50:47,840 Not only has the low pressure steam line decommissioned, 1577 01:50:47,840 --> 01:50:50,980 but segments of the medium pressure steam line have. 1578 01:50:50,980 --> 01:50:56,360 And now we're hearing that further segments 1579 01:50:56,360 --> 01:50:58,250 of the medium pressure steam line 1580 01:50:58,250 --> 01:51:00,490 that will likely include places like RBC Place 1581 01:51:00,490 --> 01:51:05,390 will be impacted beyond the costs in this budget here. 1582 01:51:05,390 --> 01:51:07,390 Every time we spend a dollar on something like this, 1583 01:51:07,390 --> 01:51:10,330 we don't have a dollar to spend on say the downtown plan 1584 01:51:10,330 --> 01:51:12,690 when it comes forward or the economic development plan 1585 01:51:12,690 --> 01:51:16,590 or fixing roads or sewers or parks or bridges. 1586 01:51:16,590 --> 01:51:17,890 And this is a significant amount of money. 1587 01:51:17,890 --> 01:51:20,310 We're not talking about a few hundred thousand dollars. 1588 01:51:20,310 --> 01:51:23,550 We're talking about approaching 15 million dollars 1589 01:51:23,550 --> 01:51:26,710 without the costs of places like RBC Place 1590 01:51:26,710 --> 01:51:27,890 and others impacted. 1591 01:51:27,890 --> 01:51:29,790 And that is one of the frustrations as well. 1592 01:51:29,790 --> 01:51:32,720 We are not even aware of the private sector impacts 1593 01:51:32,720 --> 01:51:35,090 of other buildings because there's no obligation 1594 01:51:35,090 --> 01:51:37,380 for N-Wave to disclose that to us. 1595 01:51:37,380 --> 01:51:38,670 We know the public sector buildings 1596 01:51:38,670 --> 01:51:40,440 because we've received the notices on those 1597 01:51:40,440 --> 01:51:42,570 and we know partners have shared with us. 1598 01:51:42,570 --> 01:51:45,210 But this is a situation that you would think 1599 01:51:45,210 --> 01:51:48,810 would be untenable in a modern city 1600 01:51:48,810 --> 01:51:51,340 with a modern downtown, right? 1601 01:51:51,340 --> 01:51:54,490 Other regulated entities aren't able to do this 1602 01:51:54,490 --> 01:51:57,210 in the same way that this particular entity is. 1603 01:51:57,210 --> 01:52:02,410 And I continue to say to the executives at N-Wave, 1604 01:52:02,410 --> 01:52:05,440 you got to financially contribute. 1605 01:52:05,440 --> 01:52:08,160 This shouldn't be on the backs of the taxpayers. 1606 01:52:08,160 --> 01:52:09,920 We got more than enough good things 1607 01:52:09,920 --> 01:52:11,800 to spend money on in this city, 1608 01:52:11,800 --> 01:52:14,410 filing boilers to provide heat to our buildings 1609 01:52:14,410 --> 01:52:17,020 because a service wasn't able to be continued 1610 01:52:17,020 --> 01:52:20,750 by utility that was providing that for multiple decades. 1611 01:52:20,750 --> 01:52:22,670 You know, that's not a good use of our money. 1612 01:52:22,670 --> 01:52:23,660 That's not a good use of our time 1613 01:52:23,660 --> 01:52:25,360 and it's completely unacceptable. 1614 01:52:25,360 --> 01:52:28,690 So I will continue to be very clear to N-Wave 1615 01:52:28,690 --> 01:52:31,750 and I will continue to advocate to the province 1616 01:52:31,750 --> 01:52:34,740 to say this is not a situation 1617 01:52:34,740 --> 01:52:38,660 that any major downtown should be able to face. 1618 01:52:38,660 --> 01:52:41,960 And unregulated entities like this 1619 01:52:41,960 --> 01:52:44,230 need to have some level of oversight in the future 1620 01:52:44,230 --> 01:52:45,780 to avoid this from happening. 1621 01:52:45,780 --> 01:52:46,620 That being said, 1622 01:52:46,620 --> 01:52:48,600 we're stuck with the current regulations today, 1623 01:52:48,600 --> 01:52:50,350 which are pretty much none. 1624 01:52:50,350 --> 01:52:53,500 And there's no choice but to move forward 1625 01:52:53,500 --> 01:52:55,210 with the item before us 1626 01:52:55,210 --> 01:52:57,330 because we have to provide heat to the buildings. 1627 01:52:57,330 --> 01:52:59,040 You know, notice has been given. 1628 01:52:59,040 --> 01:53:00,720 We're not going to have that option in the future 1629 01:53:00,720 --> 01:53:02,910 so we don't have a choice but to spend this money. 1630 01:53:02,910 --> 01:53:05,990 But I think, and it's my opinion, 1631 01:53:05,990 --> 01:53:10,110 N-Wave should be paying these costs, not us. 1632 01:53:10,110 --> 01:53:11,640 And that's my expectation of them, 1633 01:53:11,640 --> 01:53:14,540 whether we have any legislative ability to make them, 1634 01:53:14,540 --> 01:53:18,210 we don't, but it's still the right thing to do. 1635 01:53:18,210 --> 01:53:20,200 And I still call on N-Wave executives 1636 01:53:20,200 --> 01:53:25,010 to make a financial contribution to these public assets 1637 01:53:25,010 --> 01:53:27,880 because they're no longer able to provide the service. 1638 01:53:27,880 --> 01:53:29,570 To me, that's just fair 1639 01:53:29,570 --> 01:53:33,710 and that's being a good corporate citizen in a downtown core of our city. 1640 01:53:33,710 --> 01:53:35,090 And I want to say like, 1641 01:53:35,090 --> 01:53:40,290 downtowns are in different states of recovery across the country. 1642 01:53:40,290 --> 01:53:42,730 Ours, we're investing a lot of money in. 1643 01:53:42,730 --> 01:53:44,490 Whether it's the open air drug strategy, 1644 01:53:44,490 --> 01:53:47,100 whether it's the investments in Canada Life Place, 1645 01:53:47,100 --> 01:53:48,330 whether it's our activations, 1646 01:53:48,330 --> 01:53:49,750 whether it's the plans we're coming forward, 1647 01:53:49,750 --> 01:53:51,470 the quick start actions, 1648 01:53:51,470 --> 01:53:53,400 all of that can be set back 1649 01:53:53,400 --> 01:53:55,700 when you stick municipal partners 1650 01:53:55,700 --> 01:53:57,730 and private sector businesses 1651 01:53:57,730 --> 01:53:59,340 with a significant bill 1652 01:53:59,340 --> 01:54:01,680 at a time when they can least afford to do it. 1653 01:54:01,680 --> 01:54:03,150 From our perspective, it ties up our money 1654 01:54:03,150 --> 01:54:04,600 that we can't use elsewhere. 1655 01:54:04,600 --> 01:54:06,540 On the private sector, you've got struggling businesses 1656 01:54:06,540 --> 01:54:08,440 and business property owners downtown 1657 01:54:08,440 --> 01:54:10,810 trying to get people to grow their businesses, 1658 01:54:10,810 --> 01:54:13,060 trying to recruit people back to the core. 1659 01:54:13,060 --> 01:54:14,970 We're now spending significant capital dollars 1660 01:54:14,970 --> 01:54:15,790 on heating their buildings 1661 01:54:15,790 --> 01:54:17,850 or transitioning to the boiler systems. 1662 01:54:17,850 --> 01:54:20,800 Now, it's just the impact is too great 1663 01:54:20,800 --> 01:54:22,310 on the downtown right now. 1664 01:54:22,310 --> 01:54:23,600 And I wanted to stand today 1665 01:54:23,600 --> 01:54:27,500 and express my extreme disappointment in N-Wave 1666 01:54:27,500 --> 01:54:33,640 for providing these notices and discontinuing the service. 1667 01:54:33,640 --> 01:54:35,220 - Thank you, Your Worship. 1668 01:54:35,220 --> 01:54:36,670 I will return the chair to you, 1669 01:54:36,670 --> 01:54:38,050 noting we have Councillor Trussau 1670 01:54:38,050 --> 01:54:40,950 and Councillor Ferrera on the speaker's list. 1671 01:54:40,950 --> 01:54:45,320 - Councillor Trussau, go ahead. 1672 01:54:45,320 --> 01:54:47,370 - Thank you, through the chair, 1673 01:54:47,370 --> 01:54:50,100 I wanna agree with and applaud everything 1674 01:54:50,100 --> 01:54:52,620 that was just said by the mayor. 1675 01:54:52,620 --> 01:54:54,800 I think we've been left in a terrible situation here. 1676 01:54:54,800 --> 01:54:57,170 We have to do this work. 1677 01:54:57,170 --> 01:54:58,100 I mean, I know what this means 1678 01:54:58,100 --> 01:54:59,460 for the library and the museum. 1679 01:54:59,460 --> 01:55:01,610 We have to do this work. 1680 01:55:01,610 --> 01:55:03,850 We can't not do this work. 1681 01:55:03,850 --> 01:55:07,390 And we're not in a position to negotiate. 1682 01:55:07,390 --> 01:55:08,610 Well, I think we do what we are. 1683 01:55:08,610 --> 01:55:10,120 I'll get to that in a second. 1684 01:55:10,120 --> 01:55:15,860 But I just feel that we've really been treated 1685 01:55:15,860 --> 01:55:17,700 very poorly here. 1686 01:55:17,700 --> 01:55:20,330 And we're being backed into a corner 1687 01:55:20,330 --> 01:55:22,640 where we have to make what I think are 1688 01:55:22,640 --> 01:55:28,830 very excessive expenses. 1689 01:55:28,830 --> 01:55:30,310 And I don't know what we can do. 1690 01:55:30,310 --> 01:55:33,740 So my procedural question is, 1691 01:55:33,740 --> 01:55:39,260 is passing this today without prejudice? 1692 01:55:39,260 --> 01:55:43,010 Is passing this today without prejudice 1693 01:55:43,010 --> 01:56:05,630 to our ability to seek redress from the company later? 1694 01:56:05,630 --> 01:56:08,190 - Councillor, I'm first off, 1695 01:56:08,190 --> 01:56:10,900 I'm not given any sort of advice 'cause I'm not introduced. 1696 01:56:10,900 --> 01:56:13,120 But let me just clarify what's before us. 1697 01:56:13,120 --> 01:56:20,130 Before us is not any sort of acceptance of a position. 1698 01:56:20,130 --> 01:56:21,880 Like the notice has been provided, 1699 01:56:21,880 --> 01:56:24,160 we're gonna have to issue contracts 1700 01:56:24,160 --> 01:56:25,250 to actually complete the work 1701 01:56:25,250 --> 01:56:27,090 to actually heat our buildings. 1702 01:56:27,090 --> 01:56:32,040 And so I don't see this as related to any other, 1703 01:56:32,040 --> 01:56:34,760 any other things that you might be contemplating 1704 01:56:34,760 --> 01:56:37,090 because at the end of the day, 1705 01:56:37,090 --> 01:56:38,760 we know we have to provide heat to these buildings 1706 01:56:38,760 --> 01:56:41,500 and civic administration responsibly is bringing forward 1707 01:56:41,500 --> 01:56:44,750 the transparent and clear costs to us doing so 1708 01:56:44,750 --> 01:56:46,460 because we've been given the notice 1709 01:56:46,460 --> 01:56:48,460 that the service is being terminated 1710 01:56:48,460 --> 01:56:50,840 upon a certain date under the provisions 1711 01:56:50,840 --> 01:56:52,610 of the contracts that exist. 1712 01:56:52,610 --> 01:56:54,690 So I don't know if anything could be added. 1713 01:56:54,690 --> 01:56:56,390 I don't wanna speculate on anything else, 1714 01:56:56,390 --> 01:56:58,500 but I just wanted to be clear what's before us today. 1715 01:56:58,500 --> 01:57:02,980 And I don't know if I see miss all it nodding 1716 01:57:02,980 --> 01:57:05,450 that that's the case. 1717 01:57:05,450 --> 01:57:09,950 You have nothing to add? 1718 01:57:09,950 --> 01:57:11,050 - Thank you and through your worship. 1719 01:57:11,050 --> 01:57:13,480 I think that's an accurate statement. 1720 01:57:13,480 --> 01:57:19,290 These contracts are critical to maintaining the heating. 1721 01:57:19,290 --> 01:57:25,620 And so I don't see that it would have implications 1722 01:57:25,620 --> 01:57:27,070 other than that. 1723 01:57:27,070 --> 01:57:27,990 - Go ahead, Councilor. 1724 01:57:27,990 --> 01:57:29,910 - Thank you and that answers my question. 1725 01:57:29,910 --> 01:57:32,790 I'm certainly gonna support this 'cause we have to do it. 1726 01:57:32,790 --> 01:57:35,740 And in terms of whether there might be something 1727 01:57:35,740 --> 01:57:38,220 coming else later, that remains to be seen. 1728 01:57:38,220 --> 01:57:40,970 So thank you very much and thank you very much. 1729 01:57:40,970 --> 01:57:44,480 And I'm very satisfied to just vote yes on this for now. 1730 01:57:44,480 --> 01:57:47,350 I was thinking of adding an amendment saying 1731 01:57:47,350 --> 01:57:49,770 that I'm not going to do anything. 1732 01:57:49,770 --> 01:57:50,790 I think this is fine. 1733 01:57:50,790 --> 01:57:53,400 - Thank you. 1734 01:57:53,400 --> 01:57:55,050 - Councilor Ferrer, you can go ahead. 1735 01:57:55,050 --> 01:57:56,510 - Thanks, Mayor. 1736 01:57:56,510 --> 01:57:58,280 So I agree with everything that you said. 1737 01:57:58,280 --> 01:58:02,910 And this is one that I struggle to keep my inside voice in 1738 01:58:02,910 --> 01:58:07,070 and my outside voice out because as you correctly said, 1739 01:58:07,070 --> 01:58:08,590 downtown has got a lot of struggles. 1740 01:58:08,590 --> 01:58:12,710 And now we have this extra one, which is huge 1741 01:58:12,710 --> 01:58:15,370 when it comes to the financial implications here 1742 01:58:15,370 --> 01:58:16,760 with the city, but not just with the city 1743 01:58:16,760 --> 01:58:18,790 with private residences. 1744 01:58:18,790 --> 01:58:22,890 We got condos who have already high condo fees. 1745 01:58:22,890 --> 01:58:25,020 And now they're scrambling to figure out 1746 01:58:25,020 --> 01:58:27,850 how are they gonna maintain heat? 1747 01:58:27,850 --> 01:58:31,090 And it just seems as though that on way, 1748 01:58:31,090 --> 01:58:33,900 but did inform us that we were gonna get some help 1749 01:58:33,900 --> 01:58:36,320 or we were gonna get any type of support. 1750 01:58:36,320 --> 01:58:37,580 I don't see that. 1751 01:58:37,580 --> 01:58:40,170 I remember when on way first made the announcement 1752 01:58:40,170 --> 01:58:44,990 for the low pressure line, they gave a very comprehensive 1753 01:58:44,990 --> 01:58:48,260 understanding and information that really showed 1754 01:58:48,260 --> 01:58:50,070 that they were working on this for a very long time. 1755 01:58:50,070 --> 01:58:52,010 And yet they told us a couple days 1756 01:58:52,010 --> 01:58:53,960 before they made the announcement. 1757 01:58:53,960 --> 01:58:55,190 And I didn't really like that. 1758 01:58:55,190 --> 01:58:57,170 That was a very clear indication of, 1759 01:58:57,170 --> 01:58:58,080 you know what's going on. 1760 01:58:58,080 --> 01:58:59,470 You could give us a little bit of runway 1761 01:58:59,470 --> 01:59:02,160 or at least help us understand so we can at least budget 1762 01:59:02,160 --> 01:59:04,070 a little bit further down the road. 1763 01:59:04,070 --> 01:59:06,390 And I said this when I was speaking with on wave as well. 1764 01:59:06,390 --> 01:59:08,510 Like you clearly have been working on this for a while. 1765 01:59:08,510 --> 01:59:10,420 Why are you telling us now? 1766 01:59:10,420 --> 01:59:12,470 And didn't really get any answers for that. 1767 01:59:12,470 --> 01:59:14,410 And then I said, and I think I said this 1768 01:59:14,410 --> 01:59:16,540 on the public record too, I would expect that 1769 01:59:16,540 --> 01:59:18,360 if this is what I've seen already, 1770 01:59:18,360 --> 01:59:19,350 it's probably gonna happen again. 1771 01:59:19,350 --> 01:59:21,490 And then we get the medium pound pressure line 1772 01:59:21,490 --> 01:59:22,320 being shut down. 1773 01:59:22,320 --> 01:59:25,400 And the same thing, very short notice on that. 1774 01:59:25,400 --> 01:59:26,480 And clearly a lot of work. 1775 01:59:26,480 --> 01:59:29,250 So they probably knew about it for a long period of time. 1776 01:59:29,250 --> 01:59:31,600 Maybe even when they said they were decommissioning 1777 01:59:31,600 --> 01:59:33,020 the low pressure line. 1778 01:59:33,020 --> 01:59:34,860 And anyway, purchasing London District Energy 1779 01:59:34,860 --> 01:59:37,930 only a few years back, where was the due diligence there? 1780 01:59:37,930 --> 01:59:42,460 Did they not see that the infrastructure was crumbling? 1781 01:59:42,460 --> 01:59:44,810 It was too expensive to repair. 1782 01:59:44,810 --> 01:59:46,960 I just, I have questions. 1783 01:59:46,960 --> 01:59:49,050 And I see a lot of the things that are happening, 1784 01:59:49,050 --> 01:59:51,370 you know, it would be helpful 1785 01:59:51,370 --> 01:59:53,980 if the city were at least informed a little bit more. 1786 01:59:53,980 --> 01:59:58,040 And it would be helpful if there was at least, you know, 1787 01:59:58,040 --> 02:00:00,770 at least some type of move or some type of understanding 1788 02:00:00,770 --> 02:00:02,510 that there's a lot of people impacted here. 1789 02:00:02,510 --> 02:00:04,210 There's thousands of people that are impacted here. 1790 02:00:04,210 --> 02:00:07,460 And all of the taxpayers in London and City Hall. 1791 02:00:07,460 --> 02:00:09,990 So, you know, I agree with everything the mayor said 1792 02:00:09,990 --> 02:00:13,710 because we have, you know, plans that we're trying 1793 02:00:13,710 --> 02:00:16,510 to implement and we need money to implement them. 1794 02:00:16,510 --> 02:00:19,730 And this is taking away from that cash. 1795 02:00:19,730 --> 02:00:24,030 So I'm really, you know, I'm disappointed, frankly, 1796 02:00:24,030 --> 02:00:25,770 of just kind of what we've seen. 1797 02:00:25,770 --> 02:00:28,640 And again, I really hope that if there is another 1798 02:00:28,640 --> 02:00:31,780 decommissioning of the line, which we just got a recent one. 1799 02:00:31,780 --> 02:00:34,740 And again, you know, when I reached out to Conway saying, 1800 02:00:34,740 --> 02:00:38,780 "Hey, can you at least let us know of some of the properties 1801 02:00:38,780 --> 02:00:40,300 "who are eventually gonna reach out to me? 1802 02:00:40,300 --> 02:00:41,360 "So at least I could be prepared?" 1803 02:00:41,360 --> 02:00:43,880 No, Privacy Act, okay, thank you. 1804 02:00:43,880 --> 02:00:45,960 I'll find out anyways. 1805 02:00:45,960 --> 02:00:47,300 But it would be nice if we could at least get 1806 02:00:47,300 --> 02:00:49,270 a little bit more leeway or a little bit of support. 1807 02:00:49,270 --> 02:00:51,530 Like you say that you're gonna give us. 1808 02:00:51,530 --> 02:00:53,220 So I agree with everything that was said. 1809 02:00:53,220 --> 02:00:57,460 Struggle for me to keep that outside voice outside. 1810 02:00:57,460 --> 02:00:58,480 So I'll just maybe leave it there 1811 02:00:58,480 --> 02:00:59,860 before I go off the rails. 1812 02:00:59,860 --> 02:01:06,840 But I appreciate everything and yeah, thanks. 1813 02:01:06,840 --> 02:01:10,960 - All right, any other speakers to all the items before us? 1814 02:01:10,960 --> 02:01:26,550 All right, seeing none, then we can open that for both. 1815 02:01:26,550 --> 02:01:31,380 - Councilor Perble, second call Councilor Perble. 1816 02:01:31,380 --> 02:01:33,390 Marking Councilor Perble, absent. 1817 02:01:33,390 --> 02:01:38,040 Opposed in the vote, motion carries 14-0. 1818 02:01:38,040 --> 02:01:39,470 - Go ahead, Councilor Frank. 1819 02:01:39,470 --> 02:01:41,170 - Thank you, I'll put item 10 on the floor, 1820 02:01:41,170 --> 02:01:44,250 the contract award for Highbury Avenue South Reconstruction 1821 02:01:44,250 --> 02:01:49,850 and Councilor McAllister indicated he had an amendment. 1822 02:01:49,850 --> 02:01:52,650 - Councilor McAllister, go ahead. 1823 02:01:52,650 --> 02:01:54,510 - Thank you, and sorry, this was a late addition. 1824 02:01:54,510 --> 02:01:56,760 So I can read it out for Council. 1825 02:01:56,760 --> 02:01:57,820 I didn't have it circulated, 1826 02:01:57,820 --> 02:02:03,540 but just so everyone can hear it. 1827 02:02:03,540 --> 02:02:07,710 Okay, so that the motion amended to add a new part 1828 02:02:07,710 --> 02:02:11,270 that reads as follows, H, the transfer responsibility 1829 02:02:11,270 --> 02:02:14,190 to the province of Ontario for Highbury Avenue 1830 02:02:14,190 --> 02:02:17,940 from the Thames River South Branch to the South City limits 1831 02:02:17,940 --> 02:02:19,880 be endorsed by City Council, 1832 02:02:19,880 --> 02:02:21,390 and this resolution be forwarded 1833 02:02:21,390 --> 02:02:23,740 to the Ministry of Transportation. 1834 02:02:23,740 --> 02:02:25,190 - Yes, and I've agreed to second that 1835 02:02:25,190 --> 02:02:26,170 for Councilor McAllister. 1836 02:02:26,170 --> 02:02:30,220 So if you wanna provide some commentary, you can. 1837 02:02:30,220 --> 02:02:32,750 - Thank you, and through the mayor, 1838 02:02:32,750 --> 02:02:37,760 first off, I wanna thank our mayor, 1839 02:02:37,760 --> 02:02:41,450 as well as Mayor St. Thomas, Worden and Flogen, 1840 02:02:41,450 --> 02:02:44,390 and then all the city staff from, again, 1841 02:02:44,390 --> 02:02:47,330 City of London, Elgin, St. Thomas. 1842 02:02:47,330 --> 02:02:49,750 This is one of those rare opportunities. 1843 02:02:49,750 --> 02:02:51,850 We're all in agreement. 1844 02:02:51,850 --> 02:02:53,110 I think there's good alignment 1845 02:02:53,110 --> 02:02:55,020 in terms of this being something 1846 02:02:55,020 --> 02:02:57,370 that we want the province to take on. 1847 02:02:57,370 --> 02:03:01,060 Highbury was downloaded to us in '91. 1848 02:03:01,060 --> 02:03:04,560 We've all kind of had our respective struggles with it 1849 02:03:04,560 --> 02:03:07,240 in terms of having to upgrade that infrastructure. 1850 02:03:07,240 --> 02:03:10,380 And as part of the discussion we're having today, 1851 02:03:10,380 --> 02:03:14,070 we're having to allocate the $27.5 million. 1852 02:03:14,070 --> 02:03:17,010 This was a project, as we talked about at committee, 1853 02:03:17,010 --> 02:03:20,970 where we had to save up for a few years to do this. 1854 02:03:20,970 --> 02:03:22,920 So it's a big undertaking. 1855 02:03:22,920 --> 02:03:25,100 I'm at, apologies for my absence today. 1856 02:03:25,100 --> 02:03:26,490 I am at Good Roads. 1857 02:03:26,490 --> 02:03:28,750 And we had a very productive conversation 1858 02:03:28,750 --> 02:03:30,930 with the Ministry of Transportation this morning. 1859 02:03:30,930 --> 02:03:33,630 Our delegation was very well received. 1860 02:03:33,630 --> 02:03:36,640 And the reason why I'm bringing this forward to you today 1861 02:03:36,640 --> 02:03:40,180 for Council's consideration is the province said 1862 02:03:40,180 --> 02:03:41,430 in terms of their next step, 1863 02:03:41,430 --> 02:03:45,410 that they wanted to see Council endorsements 1864 02:03:45,410 --> 02:03:48,510 from City of London, Elgin, and St. Thomas, 1865 02:03:48,510 --> 02:03:52,720 to ensure that we collectively are agreeing 1866 02:03:52,720 --> 02:03:53,540 that this is something 1867 02:03:53,540 --> 02:03:56,390 that we would like the province to take on. 1868 02:03:56,390 --> 02:03:58,400 I know from my perspective, 1869 02:03:58,400 --> 02:04:00,240 I'm not gonna speak for any of my other colleagues 1870 02:04:00,240 --> 02:04:01,860 and curious to hear what people have to say, 1871 02:04:01,860 --> 02:04:05,940 but this is a road where we see a lot of opportunity. 1872 02:04:05,940 --> 02:04:08,320 Obviously PowerCo gets a lot of attention, 1873 02:04:08,320 --> 02:04:10,100 but all along the highbury, 1874 02:04:10,100 --> 02:04:12,680 there's a lot of potential in terms of the economic growth. 1875 02:04:12,680 --> 02:04:14,680 And so uploading this, 1876 02:04:14,680 --> 02:04:17,950 I think is very important from a regional point of view 1877 02:04:17,950 --> 02:04:21,140 in terms of the future for our whole area. 1878 02:04:21,140 --> 02:04:24,160 I think this is something we as a Council should endorse. 1879 02:04:24,160 --> 02:04:26,280 The province is very keen on it. 1880 02:04:26,280 --> 02:04:30,230 And so I would highly encourage my colleagues to support this. 1881 02:04:30,230 --> 02:04:32,260 We rarely get opportunities to upload things 1882 02:04:32,260 --> 02:04:33,100 to the province. 1883 02:04:33,100 --> 02:04:35,530 So this is one of those rare moments 1884 02:04:35,530 --> 02:04:38,550 where I really think we need to take advantage of it. 1885 02:04:38,550 --> 02:04:40,380 And I hope I can get your support. 1886 02:04:40,380 --> 02:04:41,660 So I'll leave it there. 1887 02:04:41,660 --> 02:04:44,130 And thank you to the mayor for a seconding this. 1888 02:04:44,130 --> 02:04:46,200 I know he's done a lot of work to see 1889 02:04:46,200 --> 02:04:48,830 with our colleagues at Elkin and St. Thomas as well. 1890 02:04:48,830 --> 02:04:50,770 So thank you. 1891 02:04:50,770 --> 02:04:52,140 - Yes, and I have myself next on the list. 1892 02:04:52,140 --> 02:04:55,620 I'll turn it over to Deputy Mayor Lewis to chair. 1893 02:04:55,620 --> 02:04:56,620 Thank you, worship. 1894 02:04:56,620 --> 02:04:59,340 I'll take the chair again, and please go ahead. 1895 02:04:59,340 --> 02:05:01,530 Yeah, so I hope colleagues support the amendment 1896 02:05:01,530 --> 02:05:03,050 as you've heard. 1897 02:05:03,050 --> 02:05:04,800 This is something that the province is seeking 1898 02:05:04,800 --> 02:05:08,590 from us, St. Thomas and Elkin County, 1899 02:05:08,590 --> 02:05:12,300 those two jurisdictions will pass or take similar resolutions 1900 02:05:12,300 --> 02:05:15,210 to their councils to align with the province's desire 1901 02:05:15,210 --> 02:05:18,720 to see more breadth of support than just the mayors 1902 02:05:18,720 --> 02:05:20,480 and wardens coming in asking them to do something, 1903 02:05:20,480 --> 02:05:22,030 but they want to see some endorsement 1904 02:05:22,030 --> 02:05:23,940 from municipal councils, which I think 1905 02:05:23,940 --> 02:05:26,940 is a very positive step in the process and discussion. 1906 02:05:26,940 --> 02:05:31,470 I will say, I'll tell you where this came from. 1907 02:05:31,470 --> 02:05:35,580 I have a regular set of meetings with our regional partners. 1908 02:05:35,580 --> 02:05:39,770 As you know, operating as a region, economically, 1909 02:05:39,770 --> 02:05:43,480 from a planning perspective and thinking 1910 02:05:43,480 --> 02:05:46,230 about how this region grows and moves people around together, 1911 02:05:46,230 --> 02:05:47,790 is something that has been a priority of mine 1912 02:05:47,790 --> 02:05:50,660 and a priority of my other colleagues in the region. 1913 02:05:50,660 --> 02:05:52,340 We have a regular set of meetings. 1914 02:05:52,340 --> 02:05:53,730 One of the meetings when we brainstormed 1915 02:05:53,730 --> 02:05:55,530 how we could work together a regional transportation. 1916 02:05:55,530 --> 02:05:57,240 And again, thanks to this council 1917 02:05:57,240 --> 02:06:00,590 and the most recent budget for supporting in partnership 1918 02:06:00,590 --> 02:06:02,790 with the province and others transportation 1919 02:06:02,790 --> 02:06:05,820 between our cities through the Middlesex Connect Transportation 1920 02:06:05,820 --> 02:06:07,980 Service, but this is an important transportation 1921 02:06:07,980 --> 02:06:09,360 corridor that we both recognize. 1922 02:06:09,360 --> 02:06:13,090 Both us, Elgin and St. Thomas, all see a need 1923 02:06:13,090 --> 02:06:14,790 to make improvements to Highbury Road 1924 02:06:14,790 --> 02:06:16,970 in the future as an important economic corridor. 1925 02:06:16,970 --> 02:06:18,790 And as we discussed the possibility 1926 02:06:18,790 --> 02:06:22,200 of aligning EAs across multiple jurisdictions, 1927 02:06:22,200 --> 02:06:25,880 the idea came up that this used to be a provincial highway 1928 02:06:25,880 --> 02:06:28,200 and this could be coordinated much better 1929 02:06:28,200 --> 02:06:32,090 as a critical economic corridor as a provincial asset. 1930 02:06:32,090 --> 02:06:36,400 And us all being in agreement, we set out the approach 1931 02:06:36,400 --> 02:06:37,750 to see if there was interest. 1932 02:06:37,750 --> 02:06:40,050 Minister Flack is on record saying, 1933 02:06:40,050 --> 02:06:42,630 this is a great idea as the Minister for the region. 1934 02:06:42,630 --> 02:06:45,240 I think it's really great to have his support. 1935 02:06:45,240 --> 02:06:46,810 That doesn't mean it automatically gets done. 1936 02:06:46,810 --> 02:06:49,710 It means it's in good stead with the provincial process. 1937 02:06:49,710 --> 02:06:55,350 So today's vote is a great next step much later 1938 02:06:55,350 --> 02:06:58,330 in the process to say we've got enough interest, 1939 02:06:58,330 --> 02:07:00,860 that we've got to formalize these endorsements 1940 02:07:00,860 --> 02:07:04,350 from the local civic governments 1941 02:07:04,350 --> 02:07:06,300 and then we'll discuss the next step. 1942 02:07:06,300 --> 02:07:08,770 So I want to thank Councillor McAllister 1943 02:07:08,770 --> 02:07:10,330 for representing us at Good Roads. 1944 02:07:10,330 --> 02:07:12,720 I asked him to be there rather than here 1945 02:07:12,720 --> 02:07:13,950 in the city for this council meeting 1946 02:07:13,950 --> 02:07:15,740 so that he could do that delegation 1947 02:07:15,740 --> 02:07:17,300 and I appreciate the good work. 1948 02:07:17,300 --> 02:07:19,570 And thanks to the Mayor of St. Thomas 1949 02:07:19,570 --> 02:07:21,600 and Elgin County for supporting you 1950 02:07:21,600 --> 02:07:23,310 in that joint delegation as well. 1951 02:07:23,310 --> 02:07:25,420 So I'll ask for my colleagues support on this 1952 02:07:25,420 --> 02:07:28,160 and look forward to the next step. 1953 02:07:28,160 --> 02:07:30,280 - Thank you Your Worship. 1954 02:07:30,280 --> 02:07:31,450 I will return the chair to you. 1955 02:07:31,450 --> 02:07:33,830 I have no one else on the speakers list at this time. 1956 02:07:33,830 --> 02:07:35,440 Okay, any other speakers? 1957 02:07:35,440 --> 02:07:39,210 This is on the amendment as is now moved and seconded 1958 02:07:39,210 --> 02:07:42,240 as Councillor McAllister articulated. 1959 02:07:42,240 --> 02:07:59,550 I see no one else so we'll open that for voting. 1960 02:07:59,550 --> 02:08:05,130 - Closing the vote, motion carries 14 to zero. 1961 02:08:05,130 --> 02:08:09,960 - Okay, and now I need an as amended motion. 1962 02:08:09,960 --> 02:08:11,390 Councillor Frank, you were presenting. 1963 02:08:11,390 --> 02:08:12,440 Councillor Vameyerberger and you're willing 1964 02:08:12,440 --> 02:08:13,850 to second the as amended. 1965 02:08:13,850 --> 02:08:16,780 So this is for all of the clauses altogether. 1966 02:08:16,780 --> 02:08:19,930 Any discussion on that? 1967 02:08:19,930 --> 02:08:32,640 Okay, we're gonna open that for voting. 1968 02:08:32,640 --> 02:08:41,190 - And carries 13 to one. 1969 02:08:41,190 --> 02:08:43,140 - Okay, Councillor Frank, go ahead. 1970 02:08:43,140 --> 02:08:45,560 - Thank you, I'll put item 11, the contract award 1971 02:08:45,560 --> 02:08:47,380 for the consulting engineer for Western Road 1972 02:08:47,380 --> 02:08:51,190 and Cerny Road on the floor as there was a typographical error 1973 02:08:51,190 --> 02:09:04,260 that's been circulated and needs approval. 1974 02:09:04,260 --> 02:09:05,290 - Do you have the amendment before you 1975 02:09:05,290 --> 02:09:08,310 so you can just read it out? 1976 02:09:08,310 --> 02:09:14,130 Or we can, let me read it out for you. 1977 02:09:14,130 --> 02:09:16,020 That the motion be amended in part B 1978 02:09:16,020 --> 02:09:19,010 to correct the amount of the approved project contingency 1979 02:09:19,010 --> 02:09:23,400 to 1.3 million excluding HST. 1980 02:09:23,400 --> 02:09:25,660 The number is incorrect in the document. 1981 02:09:25,660 --> 02:09:28,440 So that's the correct amount. 1982 02:09:28,440 --> 02:09:29,440 So I'll second that. 1983 02:09:29,440 --> 02:09:32,560 So it's moved by Councillor Frank and seconded. 1984 02:09:32,560 --> 02:09:34,840 Yes, Councillor Troso. 1985 02:09:34,840 --> 02:09:36,160 - Yeah, I just threw the chair. 1986 02:09:36,160 --> 02:09:37,760 I wanna briefly say how pleased I am 1987 02:09:37,760 --> 02:09:42,180 that this is finally coming to our table 1988 02:09:42,180 --> 02:09:44,860 and it looks like we're going to be making progress 1989 02:09:44,860 --> 02:09:45,910 on this. 1990 02:09:45,910 --> 02:09:50,150 I think we were just in our first couple of meetings 1991 02:09:50,150 --> 02:09:52,730 in this council term where we were still working 1992 02:09:52,730 --> 02:09:53,650 on the plans for this. 1993 02:09:53,650 --> 02:09:57,100 So I'm just so pleased that there's been some bumps 1994 02:09:57,100 --> 02:10:00,320 and there's been some minor, I'd say minor disagreements, 1995 02:10:00,320 --> 02:10:01,750 but this is just wonderful. 1996 02:10:01,750 --> 02:10:04,570 I already see that work is being done 1997 02:10:04,570 --> 02:10:07,690 on very badly potentially like saving work 1998 02:10:07,690 --> 02:10:09,510 is being done on Philippa Z. 1999 02:10:09,510 --> 02:10:12,890 So this is just great news that this is here. 2000 02:10:12,890 --> 02:10:15,790 So thank you to everybody that worked on this 2001 02:10:15,790 --> 02:10:18,270 and thank you for bringing this board. 2002 02:10:18,270 --> 02:10:23,680 - Okay, so again, on the amendment, any other speakers? 2003 02:10:23,680 --> 02:10:38,120 Nope, we're gonna open that for voting. 2004 02:10:38,120 --> 02:10:40,080 - Wasn't the vote motion carries 14-0. 2005 02:10:40,080 --> 02:10:40,900 - All right, Councillor Frank, 2006 02:10:40,900 --> 02:10:42,860 you move the as amended, I'll second. 2007 02:10:42,860 --> 02:11:05,020 Okay, so as amended now, any further discussion? 2008 02:11:05,020 --> 02:11:23,710 Okay, that as amended motion is now going to be open. 2009 02:11:23,710 --> 02:11:31,580 - Councillor Pribble, second called Councillor Pribble, 2010 02:11:31,580 --> 02:11:36,080 marking the Councillor absent, Councillor McAllister. 2011 02:11:36,080 --> 02:11:40,760 Thank you, closing the vote, motion carries 14-0. 2012 02:11:40,760 --> 02:11:42,490 Councillor Frank. 2013 02:11:42,490 --> 02:11:45,210 - Thank you, I'll put item 14, respectful workplace policy 2014 02:11:45,210 --> 02:11:46,030 on the floor. 2015 02:11:46,030 --> 02:11:49,770 It was requests for pulled from Councillor Stevenson. 2016 02:11:49,770 --> 02:11:51,600 - Okay, that's on the floor. 2017 02:11:51,600 --> 02:11:56,670 I don't look for any speakers, Councillor Stevenson. 2018 02:11:56,670 --> 02:11:58,460 - Yes, thank you all, just make it quick. 2019 02:11:58,460 --> 02:12:02,030 I'm not gonna be accepting this report. 2020 02:12:02,030 --> 02:12:03,980 I don't think it even comes close 2021 02:12:03,980 --> 02:12:05,680 to being an adequate response 2022 02:12:05,680 --> 02:12:08,980 to the concerns that were raised regarding harassment 2023 02:12:08,980 --> 02:12:12,070 over the last year or two. 2024 02:12:12,070 --> 02:12:17,150 I mean, there were some real issues that were raised 2025 02:12:17,150 --> 02:12:21,980 and this report that only addresses one piece 2026 02:12:21,980 --> 02:12:26,280 of the reporting and that I just, anyway, 2027 02:12:26,280 --> 02:12:29,110 I'm just disappointed that this is all 2028 02:12:29,110 --> 02:12:35,040 that the response is to what was raised. 2029 02:12:35,040 --> 02:12:38,930 - Okay, any other speakers? 2030 02:12:38,930 --> 02:13:06,770 Okay, seeing none, we'll open that for voting. 2031 02:13:06,770 --> 02:13:09,860 - So, Toronto, thank you, closing the vote, 2032 02:13:09,860 --> 02:13:13,060 motion carried 13-1. 2033 02:13:13,060 --> 02:13:17,390 E-scribe is having some issues. 2034 02:13:17,390 --> 02:13:19,100 - Okay, go ahead, Councillor Frank. 2035 02:13:19,100 --> 02:13:20,270 - Thank you, I'll put item 15, 2036 02:13:20,270 --> 02:13:26,100 revised, respectful workplace policy on the floor. 2037 02:13:26,100 --> 02:13:27,370 - Okay, that's on the floor. 2038 02:13:27,370 --> 02:13:30,210 Councillor Stevenson, I see your hand up. 2039 02:13:30,210 --> 02:13:32,050 - Yeah, thank you, I made a submission 2040 02:13:32,050 --> 02:13:33,440 and I made comments at committee, 2041 02:13:33,440 --> 02:13:35,310 so I'm not going to belabor it here, 2042 02:13:35,310 --> 02:13:38,100 but again, there have been concerns raised 2043 02:13:38,100 --> 02:13:39,890 around what's in and not in 2044 02:13:39,890 --> 02:13:41,920 and how this policy's been interpreted 2045 02:13:41,920 --> 02:13:45,500 and applied in the past and so I will not be receiving 2046 02:13:45,500 --> 02:13:48,330 or approving these revisions to a policy 2047 02:13:48,330 --> 02:13:53,510 that has so many apparent issues with it. 2048 02:13:53,510 --> 02:13:56,730 - Any other speakers? 2049 02:13:56,730 --> 02:14:13,000 Okay, we'll open that for voting. 2050 02:14:13,000 --> 02:14:16,670 - Closing the vote, motion carries 13-1. 2051 02:14:16,670 --> 02:14:18,090 - Councillor Frank. 2052 02:14:18,090 --> 02:14:19,300 - Thank you, I'll put item 16, 2053 02:14:19,300 --> 02:14:20,860 final program designed for better homes 2054 02:14:20,860 --> 02:14:24,460 landed on the floor. 2055 02:14:24,460 --> 02:14:28,900 - All right, that's on the floor, any discussion? 2056 02:14:28,900 --> 02:14:40,660 Seeing none, we can open that for voting. 2057 02:14:40,660 --> 02:14:49,410 - Closing the vote, motion carries 13-1. 2058 02:14:49,410 --> 02:14:51,290 - Thank you, I'll put the final item, 2059 02:14:51,290 --> 02:14:54,650 item number 19, smart commute landed on the floor. 2060 02:14:54,650 --> 02:14:55,610 - Okay, that's on the floor, 2061 02:14:55,610 --> 02:15:00,960 I'll look for any speakers. 2062 02:15:00,960 --> 02:15:14,360 Seeing none, we'll open that for voting. 2063 02:15:14,360 --> 02:15:18,840 - Closing the vote, motion carries 12-2. 2064 02:15:18,840 --> 02:15:23,640 - Councillor Frank, all done, perfect, thank you very much. 2065 02:15:23,640 --> 02:15:26,520 That brings us to the Planning and Environment Committee, 2066 02:15:26,520 --> 02:15:29,940 I'll have Chair Layman present that report. 2067 02:15:29,940 --> 02:15:32,280 - Thank you Mayor, please put the fifth report 2068 02:15:32,280 --> 02:15:34,930 of the Planning and Environment Committee. 2069 02:15:34,930 --> 02:15:39,750 On the floor, I have had a request to pull item 13, 2070 02:15:39,750 --> 02:15:43,770 I know there are items that would be called. 2071 02:15:43,770 --> 02:15:45,980 - All right, anybody want anything else pulled? 2072 02:15:45,980 --> 02:15:51,910 Item 13 is gonna be dealt with separately, anything else? 2073 02:15:51,910 --> 02:15:55,440 Okay, seeing none, you can make a motion then. 2074 02:15:55,440 --> 02:15:58,000 - So I'll move all those items. 2075 02:15:58,000 --> 02:16:02,150 I'll move one through 12 and 14 through 16. 2076 02:16:02,150 --> 02:16:06,900 - Okay, so one through 12, 14, 15 and 16 are on the floor, 2077 02:16:06,900 --> 02:16:09,000 Councillor Hopkins, do you have some comments? 2078 02:16:09,000 --> 02:16:10,950 - Yes, thank you Your Worship, 2079 02:16:10,950 --> 02:16:13,100 I just wanna make a comment on number 11, 2080 02:16:13,100 --> 02:16:15,120 which is six, seven, 12, James Street, 2081 02:16:15,120 --> 02:16:20,090 I wanna thank the committee for adding an amendment 2082 02:16:20,090 --> 02:16:24,580 that I presented, this is a development in my ward, 2083 02:16:24,580 --> 02:16:26,320 there are many, many trees coming down 2084 02:16:26,320 --> 02:16:30,410 with this development and the committee did support 2085 02:16:30,410 --> 02:16:35,400 that they would use an added direction to use best efforts 2086 02:16:35,400 --> 02:16:40,790 to offset the anticipatory loss from this development, 2087 02:16:40,790 --> 02:16:43,170 hopefully finding other developments 2088 02:16:43,170 --> 02:16:44,990 that we can add extra trees in, 2089 02:16:44,990 --> 02:16:48,850 so thank you to the committee. 2090 02:16:48,850 --> 02:16:50,980 - And Councillor Ferrico. 2091 02:16:50,980 --> 02:16:52,190 - Thanks, Mayor. 2092 02:16:52,190 --> 02:16:55,310 I just wanted to make a comment on item 10 2093 02:16:55,310 --> 02:16:59,440 for 325 Grey Street, just a thanks from the residents, 2094 02:16:59,440 --> 02:17:02,830 one of the sweetest human beings around. 2095 02:17:02,830 --> 02:17:07,070 She came to my office, just requesting an issue 2096 02:17:07,070 --> 02:17:11,040 with her fence and I really appreciate the report 2097 02:17:11,040 --> 02:17:13,620 adding the communication from Zalinka, 2098 02:17:13,620 --> 02:17:16,470 that blue cactus holding is gonna repair that fence. 2099 02:17:16,470 --> 02:17:19,800 So my sincere appreciation is on behalf of the resident 2100 02:17:19,800 --> 02:17:23,720 and thank you. 2101 02:17:23,720 --> 02:17:28,250 - Okay, any other speakers to this grouping? 2102 02:17:28,250 --> 02:17:48,290 Okay, seeing none, we're gonna open that for voting. 2103 02:17:48,290 --> 02:17:52,640 - Opposed in the vote, motion carries 14 to zero. 2104 02:17:52,640 --> 02:17:54,350 - Councillor Lehman. 2105 02:17:54,350 --> 02:17:55,140 - Thank you, Mayor. 2106 02:17:55,140 --> 02:17:59,170 - Hold on a second, you're okay. 2107 02:17:59,170 --> 02:18:00,900 - All right, sorry, we just had to wrap that up. 2108 02:18:00,900 --> 02:18:01,700 - All good. 2109 02:18:01,700 --> 02:18:02,840 - Go ahead, yep. 2110 02:18:02,840 --> 02:18:07,920 - Okay, so I will put 13 regarding 929 Cheap Side Street 2111 02:18:07,920 --> 02:18:11,620 on the floor, Deputy Mayor has this to be called. 2112 02:18:11,620 --> 02:18:15,130 - Okay, Deputy Mayor Lewis, go ahead. 2113 02:18:15,130 --> 02:18:17,580 - Thank you, Chair, so the reason I've asked for this one 2114 02:18:17,580 --> 02:18:21,130 to be pulled is to make a referral on this, 2115 02:18:21,130 --> 02:18:25,920 the application for from 929 Cheap Side Inc. 2116 02:18:25,920 --> 02:18:28,200 on Teeth Brown Planning Consultants related to the property 2117 02:18:28,200 --> 02:18:30,410 at 929 Cheap Side Street be referred back 2118 02:18:30,410 --> 02:18:32,830 to Civic Administration to allow for the submission 2119 02:18:32,830 --> 02:18:36,140 and review of a revised application, 2120 02:18:36,140 --> 02:18:39,200 addressing elements of the requested special provisions 2121 02:18:39,200 --> 02:18:41,730 in the original application, including but not limited 2122 02:18:41,730 --> 02:18:44,230 to the parking ratio and the Civic Administration 2123 02:18:44,230 --> 02:18:45,580 report back to a future meeting 2124 02:18:45,580 --> 02:18:47,660 with the Planning and Environment Committee 2125 02:18:47,660 --> 02:18:49,330 on the revised application. 2126 02:18:49,330 --> 02:18:52,400 It being noted that the applicant has requested this referral 2127 02:18:52,400 --> 02:18:54,420 and has voluntarily committed in writing 2128 02:18:54,420 --> 02:18:58,280 and on the public agenda dated today to suspend any appeal 2129 02:18:58,280 --> 02:19:00,990 to the Ontario Land Tribunal for a non-decision 2130 02:19:00,990 --> 02:19:02,500 for a period of 90 days. 2131 02:19:02,500 --> 02:19:04,940 And I believe I have a seconder and Councillor Hopkins. 2132 02:19:04,940 --> 02:19:07,250 Then I'll speak to it. 2133 02:19:07,250 --> 02:19:09,650 - Councillor Hopkins nods that she's willing to second. 2134 02:19:09,650 --> 02:19:12,160 So that referral is on the floor. 2135 02:19:12,160 --> 02:19:15,890 I'll, if you want to speak to it now, you can. 2136 02:19:15,890 --> 02:19:17,540 - Yeah, I'll speak to it now. 2137 02:19:17,540 --> 02:19:18,780 Colleagues, I think it's very important 2138 02:19:18,780 --> 02:19:21,970 that we send this back, particularly given the applicants 2139 02:19:21,970 --> 02:19:24,210 indicated and put on the public agenda 2140 02:19:24,210 --> 02:19:27,440 that they will not appeal for a non-decision. 2141 02:19:27,440 --> 02:19:29,700 I think we have to look at the very specific 2142 02:19:29,700 --> 02:19:33,260 staff recommendation that was refused at committee. 2143 02:19:33,260 --> 02:19:34,880 There were three components to that. 2144 02:19:34,880 --> 02:19:37,830 Clause A was a base level zoning. 2145 02:19:37,830 --> 02:19:40,840 Clause B dealt with the special provisions 2146 02:19:40,840 --> 02:19:45,230 and was actually recommended by staff as a refusal. 2147 02:19:45,230 --> 02:19:48,320 And we've refused the refusal. 2148 02:19:48,320 --> 02:19:50,830 And then we also voted down the site plan. 2149 02:19:50,830 --> 02:19:53,700 There matters to be referred to site plan. 2150 02:19:53,700 --> 02:19:55,960 We've actually put ourselves, in my opinion, 2151 02:19:55,960 --> 02:19:58,440 in a very tenuous position with respect 2152 02:19:58,440 --> 02:20:00,340 to the Ontario Land Tribunal, 2153 02:20:00,340 --> 02:20:03,870 but also with respect to the base layer zoning. 2154 02:20:03,870 --> 02:20:06,300 Had we upheld the staff recommendation 2155 02:20:06,300 --> 02:20:08,480 and refused the special provisions, 2156 02:20:08,480 --> 02:20:11,090 the applicant would not have been able to move forward 2157 02:20:11,090 --> 02:20:13,160 until they could have met conditions 2158 02:20:13,160 --> 02:20:16,340 that would have not required those special provisions. 2159 02:20:16,340 --> 02:20:19,970 However, we did not do that. 2160 02:20:19,970 --> 02:20:21,920 We voted the whole thing down, 2161 02:20:21,920 --> 02:20:23,630 the approval of the base zoning, 2162 02:20:23,630 --> 02:20:28,130 as well as the refusal of the special provisions. 2163 02:20:28,130 --> 02:20:29,910 So I'm going to suggest, particularly, 2164 02:20:29,910 --> 02:20:32,780 as the applicant has indicated, 2165 02:20:32,780 --> 02:20:36,650 that they're prepared to bring forward a revised plan 2166 02:20:36,650 --> 02:20:40,720 that will address the parking deficiency, 2167 02:20:40,720 --> 02:20:43,960 as well as the paratransit labor concerns 2168 02:20:43,960 --> 02:20:47,140 and actually reduce the building footprint and unit count. 2169 02:20:47,140 --> 02:20:48,920 I think that this should be referred back 2170 02:20:48,920 --> 02:20:52,120 to civic administration to review. 2171 02:20:52,120 --> 02:20:53,690 That doesn't mean that civic administration 2172 02:20:53,690 --> 02:20:54,940 is going to come back necessarily 2173 02:20:54,940 --> 02:20:57,680 with a recommendation to approve it all. 2174 02:20:57,680 --> 02:20:59,380 But what it will allow them to do is have time 2175 02:20:59,380 --> 02:21:02,270 to do the technical analysis of the revised plan 2176 02:21:02,270 --> 02:21:04,480 and bring forward a new recommendation to us 2177 02:21:04,480 --> 02:21:06,270 that we can then consider. 2178 02:21:06,270 --> 02:21:07,830 Because I think the alternative, 2179 02:21:07,830 --> 02:21:09,470 as has been indicated by the applicant 2180 02:21:09,470 --> 02:21:11,560 in their written submission, 2181 02:21:11,560 --> 02:21:13,890 is that this will go to the OLT. 2182 02:21:13,890 --> 02:21:16,010 And we are not in a position, in my opinion, 2183 02:21:16,010 --> 02:21:19,050 to defend what committee voted on 2184 02:21:19,050 --> 02:21:21,830 in actually refusing the refusals. 2185 02:21:21,830 --> 02:21:24,310 So I think that we should be consistent 2186 02:21:24,310 --> 02:21:27,100 with similar applications that we've received 2187 02:21:27,100 --> 02:21:31,060 in Councillor Hopkins' ward as one of a number. 2188 02:21:31,060 --> 02:21:33,940 And I know she and I discussed that. 2189 02:21:33,940 --> 02:21:35,130 But I think we need to be consistent 2190 02:21:35,130 --> 02:21:37,790 where we're looking at the base layer zoning 2191 02:21:37,790 --> 02:21:39,290 and the London plan framework 2192 02:21:39,290 --> 02:21:40,440 and then the special provisions 2193 02:21:40,440 --> 02:21:41,590 that come in on an application. 2194 02:21:41,590 --> 02:21:47,300 So I'm asking for your support to refer this back. 2195 02:21:47,300 --> 02:21:49,650 - Other speakers, Councillor Hopkins, go ahead. 2196 02:21:49,650 --> 02:21:50,490 - Yeah, thank you. 2197 02:21:50,490 --> 02:21:51,850 And thank you to the Deputy Mayor 2198 02:21:51,850 --> 02:21:54,080 for bringing this motion forward. 2199 02:21:54,080 --> 02:21:56,150 I am gonna be seconding it. 2200 02:21:56,150 --> 02:21:58,140 I think it's very, very important 2201 02:21:58,140 --> 02:22:00,890 that we are consistent. 2202 02:22:00,890 --> 02:22:03,560 I was disappointed in the recommendation 2203 02:22:03,560 --> 02:22:06,180 coming out of the Planning and Environment Committee. 2204 02:22:06,180 --> 02:22:09,090 I had grave concerns about the appeal 2205 02:22:09,090 --> 02:22:11,040 that could have taken place. 2206 02:22:11,040 --> 02:22:12,990 Really pleased to hear that the applicant 2207 02:22:12,990 --> 02:22:15,710 is willing to refine this application 2208 02:22:15,710 --> 02:22:18,340 and have an extended period of time 2209 02:22:18,340 --> 02:22:20,500 that will not take us, 2210 02:22:20,500 --> 02:22:24,250 that the applicant won't take us to the appeal process. 2211 02:22:24,250 --> 02:22:25,930 I think it's really important 2212 02:22:25,930 --> 02:22:29,290 that we make decisions in London for London. 2213 02:22:29,290 --> 02:22:31,600 So pleased that the applicant 2214 02:22:31,600 --> 02:22:34,480 is willing to have those conversations. 2215 02:22:34,480 --> 02:22:36,280 I also wanna thank the community too, 2216 02:22:36,280 --> 02:22:39,510 for their involvement in the application. 2217 02:22:39,510 --> 02:22:44,500 I know we received a lot of responses from residents. 2218 02:22:44,500 --> 02:22:47,500 It's important that we hear from the community 2219 02:22:47,500 --> 02:22:49,100 and I hope the community 2220 02:22:49,100 --> 02:22:52,650 to learn about the process 2221 02:22:52,650 --> 02:22:56,970 and what we can and can't do as a municipality. 2222 02:22:56,970 --> 02:23:01,080 I wanna thank staff to partial refusal. 2223 02:23:01,080 --> 02:23:05,270 I didn't hear much of a conversation about that at planning. 2224 02:23:05,270 --> 02:23:10,180 I know staff did a lot of work on this application. 2225 02:23:10,180 --> 02:23:12,380 So thanks to staff for their work. 2226 02:23:12,380 --> 02:23:19,100 And again, hoping council will support the referral. 2227 02:23:19,100 --> 02:23:22,700 - I have councilor Stevenson online. 2228 02:23:22,700 --> 02:23:24,150 - Thank you. 2229 02:23:24,150 --> 02:23:27,930 And thanks to the members who are there in the gallery, 2230 02:23:27,930 --> 02:23:30,040 the residents, I should say that are there in the gallery 2231 02:23:30,040 --> 02:23:32,670 and that have been communicating 2232 02:23:32,670 --> 02:23:35,580 as with the tenacity that they have over the last little while. 2233 02:23:35,580 --> 02:23:38,320 This one has been a challenging one. 2234 02:23:38,320 --> 02:23:42,740 And I've heard really loudly from the neighborhood 2235 02:23:42,740 --> 02:23:45,920 that they believe that six stories is too high. 2236 02:23:45,920 --> 02:23:48,580 And when I looked into it, 2237 02:23:48,580 --> 02:23:53,170 that only just came to pass last July. 2238 02:23:53,170 --> 02:23:55,920 So it's a very recent change 2239 02:23:55,920 --> 02:24:00,130 and that council passed it in September of 2024, 2240 02:24:00,130 --> 02:24:01,650 but it didn't get enacted 2241 02:24:01,650 --> 02:24:05,500 until the province did the approval in July of 2025. 2242 02:24:05,500 --> 02:24:07,530 So it's a really recent change. 2243 02:24:07,530 --> 02:24:11,040 So when we say, well, they're allowed to do six stories 2244 02:24:11,040 --> 02:24:12,190 and that's what I understood, 2245 02:24:12,190 --> 02:24:14,800 I didn't realize that it was so recent. 2246 02:24:14,800 --> 02:24:17,650 I also, when I went back and looked at the public notice 2247 02:24:17,650 --> 02:24:21,280 and the communication, it wasn't really clear. 2248 02:24:21,280 --> 02:24:24,340 And even in table 11, 2249 02:24:24,340 --> 02:24:28,620 which shows it's this piece of property, 2250 02:24:28,620 --> 02:24:30,010 it's a neighborhood connector, 2251 02:24:30,010 --> 02:24:31,550 it fronts onto a neighborhood connector, 2252 02:24:31,550 --> 02:24:33,220 and then there's a neighborhood connector 2253 02:24:33,220 --> 02:24:36,770 on one side of it and a neighborhood street on the other. 2254 02:24:36,770 --> 02:24:40,360 So the intersection of two neighborhood connectors 2255 02:24:40,360 --> 02:24:42,180 allows it to be six stories. 2256 02:24:42,180 --> 02:24:44,360 But the other side of the property 2257 02:24:44,360 --> 02:24:46,960 is a neighborhood street and a neighborhood connector, 2258 02:24:46,960 --> 02:24:51,500 which usually only allows four stories. 2259 02:24:51,500 --> 02:24:54,460 And so I really think that this is something 2260 02:24:54,460 --> 02:24:58,690 that is gonna impact neighborhoods across our city, 2261 02:24:58,690 --> 02:25:02,460 that residents really didn't have this discussion 2262 02:25:02,460 --> 02:25:04,800 as to whether they wanted this in their neighborhoods 2263 02:25:04,800 --> 02:25:07,090 and whether they were okay with six stories. 2264 02:25:07,090 --> 02:25:10,540 So that's the part that has me concerned, 2265 02:25:10,540 --> 02:25:13,640 is that we've given them up to six stories 2266 02:25:13,640 --> 02:25:15,730 when I emailed back and forth with staff 2267 02:25:15,730 --> 02:25:18,660 and thank you for all the emails back and forth. 2268 02:25:18,660 --> 02:25:21,390 They say, well, it's not a given 2269 02:25:21,390 --> 02:25:24,520 that you can go to six stories, you know, it's up to, 2270 02:25:24,520 --> 02:25:27,190 but then we get told, oh, well, at the OLT, 2271 02:25:27,190 --> 02:25:28,990 it's like you gotta have a really good reason 2272 02:25:28,990 --> 02:25:31,810 to not allow six stories. 2273 02:25:31,810 --> 02:25:35,680 So as we go forward and we set, you know, 2274 02:25:35,680 --> 02:25:39,180 blanket zoning and blanket regulations, 2275 02:25:39,180 --> 02:25:43,820 I think the public opinion in my understanding of it 2276 02:25:43,820 --> 02:25:46,400 has changed in the last couple of years. 2277 02:25:46,400 --> 02:25:50,920 This rush to build units and to want more density everywhere, 2278 02:25:50,920 --> 02:25:52,420 there's a real pullback on it, 2279 02:25:52,420 --> 02:25:55,050 and we're seeing it in other cities as well. 2280 02:25:55,050 --> 02:25:57,610 In Calgary and in Windsor, where they're saying no. 2281 02:25:57,610 --> 02:26:00,590 - Point of order, go ahead, point of order. 2282 02:26:00,590 --> 02:26:02,270 We have a referral on the floor. 2283 02:26:02,270 --> 02:26:05,700 The councilors debating now the light plan review 2284 02:26:05,700 --> 02:26:08,190 that was conducted over a year ago. 2285 02:26:08,190 --> 02:26:12,830 If we can stick to the referral, please. 2286 02:26:12,830 --> 02:26:22,500 - One second, yeah, so I'm actually gonna agree 2287 02:26:22,500 --> 02:26:23,320 with you, Deputy Mayor. 2288 02:26:23,320 --> 02:26:25,700 At the start, I think the councilor was pretty clearly 2289 02:26:25,700 --> 02:26:28,100 on the referral has kind of strayed from that now. 2290 02:26:28,100 --> 02:26:33,190 So to Councillor Stevenson, this is a referral back, 2291 02:26:33,420 --> 02:26:38,220 has described in the motion. 2292 02:26:38,220 --> 02:26:40,520 So if you could keep it tight to the rationale 2293 02:26:40,520 --> 02:26:44,330 for either supporting or not supporting the referral, 2294 02:26:44,330 --> 02:26:46,360 that would be beneficial to your colleagues. 2295 02:26:46,360 --> 02:26:48,190 - Yeah, no, and I understand that, 2296 02:26:48,190 --> 02:26:49,970 but there is a bigger picture again. 2297 02:26:49,970 --> 02:26:52,740 When we make these decisions, 2298 02:26:52,740 --> 02:26:56,620 there's a bigger picture in mind and it is impacting other, 2299 02:26:56,620 --> 02:26:58,740 and it will continue to impact neighbourhoods 2300 02:26:58,740 --> 02:26:59,570 across our city. 2301 02:26:59,570 --> 02:27:02,220 So, you know, I really appreciate the developers' 2302 02:27:02,220 --> 02:27:04,950 willingness to make changes, 2303 02:27:04,950 --> 02:27:09,570 but we still have this issue of changes that were passed 2304 02:27:09,570 --> 02:27:13,360 and made and what are the implications going forward. 2305 02:27:13,360 --> 02:27:17,800 I am concerned about what the Deputy Mayor said. 2306 02:27:17,800 --> 02:27:21,170 I may support this referral. 2307 02:27:21,170 --> 02:27:23,000 I'm gonna listen to the rest of the debate, 2308 02:27:23,000 --> 02:27:25,430 but I will be speaking with the residents 2309 02:27:25,430 --> 02:27:28,060 and the public in general, 2310 02:27:28,060 --> 02:27:31,160 and really trying to understand what it is that we've done 2311 02:27:31,160 --> 02:27:33,750 in the changes that we've made and the impacts 2312 02:27:33,750 --> 02:27:35,220 that these are gonna have across our city 2313 02:27:35,220 --> 02:27:39,130 and what our options are when a revised plan comes forward. 2314 02:27:39,130 --> 02:27:40,980 - Just, you're just starting us right there again, 2315 02:27:40,980 --> 02:27:42,970 so I appreciate you wrapping it up. 2316 02:27:42,970 --> 02:27:46,280 Other speakers to the referral? 2317 02:27:46,280 --> 02:27:49,010 Go ahead, Councilor Trossam. 2318 02:27:49,010 --> 02:27:51,180 - Well, I'm glad to the chair 2319 02:27:51,180 --> 02:27:52,940 that we're not talking about passing this tonight, 2320 02:27:52,940 --> 02:27:54,740 'cause I think that would be something 2321 02:27:54,740 --> 02:27:57,910 that I would not be willing to support. 2322 02:27:57,910 --> 02:28:00,700 I'm not sure about the referral. 2323 02:28:00,700 --> 02:28:04,210 My problem with the referral is if we do a referral, 2324 02:28:04,210 --> 02:28:05,750 are we going to be able to have another 2325 02:28:05,750 --> 02:28:08,240 public participation meeting with respect 2326 02:28:08,240 --> 02:28:15,870 to the many amendments that are gonna be made? 2327 02:28:15,870 --> 02:28:17,940 - Go ahead. 2328 02:28:17,940 --> 02:28:19,700 - Thank you, through your worship, yes, that's correct. 2329 02:28:19,700 --> 02:28:24,190 There will be another public participation meeting. 2330 02:28:24,190 --> 02:28:26,660 - Go ahead, Councilor Trossam. 2331 02:28:26,660 --> 02:28:28,960 - Well, I'm always worried about the deadline, 2332 02:28:28,960 --> 02:28:34,320 but it sounds as if we have something in writing. 2333 02:28:34,320 --> 02:28:39,540 My worry about sending this back is I would prefer, 2334 02:28:39,540 --> 02:28:41,510 and I think it would be cleaner, 2335 02:28:41,510 --> 02:28:44,590 to just reject this application, 2336 02:28:44,590 --> 02:28:46,910 which of course would be without prejudice 2337 02:28:46,910 --> 02:28:51,200 to them bringing it back. 2338 02:28:51,200 --> 02:28:56,570 If going the root of referral, 2339 02:28:56,570 --> 02:29:01,700 if going the root of referral may save us the expense 2340 02:29:01,700 --> 02:29:06,770 and risk of litigation, I'm good for that. 2341 02:29:06,770 --> 02:29:09,950 But my sense is, when all is said and done, 2342 02:29:09,950 --> 02:29:12,360 if we don't give the developer what the developer wants 2343 02:29:12,360 --> 02:29:16,410 at the end of the process, he's gonna take us anyway. 2344 02:29:16,410 --> 02:29:21,790 So I guess I would like to get some guidance. 2345 02:29:21,790 --> 02:29:28,800 I guess I would, just stop my time for a second. 2346 02:29:28,800 --> 02:29:29,780 - I'm just gonna look this way 2347 02:29:29,780 --> 02:29:32,330 'cause I'm getting better vibes over here. 2348 02:29:32,330 --> 02:29:35,380 I guess I'm just going to say 2349 02:29:35,380 --> 02:29:37,860 that I'm uncomfortable with the referral, 2350 02:29:37,860 --> 02:29:42,460 but what I would like to know from Steph 2351 02:29:42,460 --> 02:29:46,110 is how much of a risk would it be 2352 02:29:46,110 --> 02:29:50,310 to just say no to this, understanding that the developer 2353 02:29:50,310 --> 02:29:56,010 can come back and just refile an application 2354 02:29:56,010 --> 02:29:57,560 that has the changes in it. 2355 02:29:57,560 --> 02:29:59,210 May I ask that? 2356 02:29:59,210 --> 02:30:03,190 - Yes, and let me just provide some context for our staff 2357 02:30:03,190 --> 02:30:04,710 in their response to this. 2358 02:30:04,710 --> 02:30:08,770 I think just for you to help preface your comments, 2359 02:30:08,770 --> 02:30:11,560 I think part of the questions that I'm hearing 2360 02:30:11,560 --> 02:30:15,400 from colleagues is committee says no. 2361 02:30:15,400 --> 02:30:18,250 I think there's members of the community very happy with no. 2362 02:30:18,250 --> 02:30:20,230 One of the concerns that the deputy mayor raised 2363 02:30:20,230 --> 02:30:23,020 in the referral was when we said no, 2364 02:30:23,020 --> 02:30:24,980 we created a bit of a double negative staff 2365 02:30:24,980 --> 02:30:28,050 for extra layering on some significant restrictions 2366 02:30:28,050 --> 02:30:30,010 in part B of the clause. 2367 02:30:30,010 --> 02:30:33,540 If we just say it right now and it goes to the OLT, 2368 02:30:33,540 --> 02:30:34,990 that there could be some level of risk 2369 02:30:34,990 --> 02:30:37,960 that we've taken no position on those restrictions. 2370 02:30:37,960 --> 02:30:40,590 And obviously you can't predict what would happen 2371 02:30:40,590 --> 02:30:46,270 at the OLT, but I think the councilors are trying to ask, 2372 02:30:46,270 --> 02:30:49,900 is it good to do the referral to not only have a discussion 2373 02:30:49,900 --> 02:30:51,080 about what might be there 2374 02:30:51,080 --> 02:30:52,760 and that there would still be public engagement, 2375 02:30:52,760 --> 02:30:56,240 but how does that relate to any sort of OLT 2376 02:30:56,240 --> 02:30:58,140 proceeding and I don't know how far you can comment on that? 2377 02:30:58,140 --> 02:30:59,520 I think that would be helpful to all of us 2378 02:30:59,520 --> 02:31:05,850 if you could provide some context within that space. 2379 02:31:05,850 --> 02:31:07,400 - Through you, worship. 2380 02:31:07,400 --> 02:31:10,100 If should this go to the OLT, the report itself, 2381 02:31:10,100 --> 02:31:12,320 the planning report would be the evidence 2382 02:31:12,320 --> 02:31:13,700 that would be provided. 2383 02:31:13,700 --> 02:31:18,020 And so those matters that the planner would report on 2384 02:31:18,020 --> 02:31:19,860 would be dealing with those special provisions 2385 02:31:19,860 --> 02:31:20,760 that are outlined. 2386 02:31:20,760 --> 02:31:23,580 So we'd look at the properties a whole. 2387 02:31:23,580 --> 02:31:27,280 Having said that, the chair or the member of OLT 2388 02:31:27,280 --> 02:31:29,500 would have to take those matters into consideration, 2389 02:31:29,500 --> 02:31:31,290 but there was always a counterpart 2390 02:31:31,290 --> 02:31:33,950 represented by the applicant. 2391 02:31:33,950 --> 02:31:37,050 So really it is, it's a 50/50 chance, 2392 02:31:37,050 --> 02:31:41,840 but ideally they would be looking at the policy framework, 2393 02:31:41,840 --> 02:31:43,390 being provincial planning statement, 2394 02:31:43,390 --> 02:31:45,730 the official plan being the London plan, 2395 02:31:45,730 --> 02:31:49,780 the zoning framework in terms of what those permissions are. 2396 02:31:49,780 --> 02:31:52,400 What isn't in the recommendation 2397 02:31:52,400 --> 02:31:55,200 and what we've heard from the public is about the height. 2398 02:31:55,200 --> 02:31:59,920 And so height of six stories is a permitted permission 2399 02:31:59,920 --> 02:32:01,100 within the London plan. 2400 02:32:01,100 --> 02:32:07,160 And so there wouldn't be that debate at the OLT. 2401 02:32:07,160 --> 02:32:10,450 - Yeah, I'm inclined not to support the referral, 2402 02:32:10,450 --> 02:32:13,410 although I still want to hear the rest of the debate. 2403 02:32:13,410 --> 02:32:16,510 I just want to tell people in the neighborhood 2404 02:32:16,510 --> 02:32:18,490 through the chair that I think that these are the types 2405 02:32:18,490 --> 02:32:20,710 of issues that come up all the time. 2406 02:32:20,710 --> 02:32:24,590 And one of the things that I'm worried about is don't, 2407 02:32:24,590 --> 02:32:28,470 if this gets referred, don't let it wear you down. 2408 02:32:28,470 --> 02:32:30,950 You gotta come back and come to the next meeting 2409 02:32:30,950 --> 02:32:32,260 through the chair, of course. 2410 02:32:32,260 --> 02:32:36,990 But I'm very impressed with the quality 2411 02:32:36,990 --> 02:32:39,980 of the comments that I've received. 2412 02:32:39,980 --> 02:32:41,960 And I'm very concerned about this project. 2413 02:32:41,960 --> 02:32:44,840 I represent, I'm just across the way in Adelaide. 2414 02:32:44,840 --> 02:32:47,940 And I have very similar concerns 2415 02:32:47,940 --> 02:32:51,220 from my neighbors in Old North and elsewhere. 2416 02:32:51,220 --> 02:32:54,510 So I really think that I'm glad to see 2417 02:32:54,510 --> 02:32:56,580 this is not going through tonight, 2418 02:32:56,580 --> 02:32:59,230 but I guess we're not, I guess one way or another, 2419 02:32:59,230 --> 02:33:00,410 we're not done with it. 2420 02:33:00,410 --> 02:33:05,500 So here we are. 2421 02:33:05,500 --> 02:33:12,390 - Other speakers, go ahead, Councillor ramen. 2422 02:33:12,390 --> 02:33:13,220 - Thank you. 2423 02:33:13,220 --> 02:33:16,640 And on the referral, I just wanted to get clarification 2424 02:33:16,640 --> 02:33:20,680 because I think I'm understanding this differently 2425 02:33:20,680 --> 02:33:25,660 related to a potential, how this would be perceived 2426 02:33:25,660 --> 02:33:28,720 by a tribunal on this matter. 2427 02:33:28,720 --> 02:33:36,380 So my understanding is that whatever decision 2428 02:33:36,380 --> 02:33:39,910 we render today, they would look at 2429 02:33:39,910 --> 02:33:42,080 the entirety of the application, 2430 02:33:42,080 --> 02:33:44,220 which includes the special provisions 2431 02:33:44,220 --> 02:33:47,400 which were recommended for refusal, 2432 02:33:47,400 --> 02:33:51,940 and the part on the zoning, which was recommended 2433 02:33:51,940 --> 02:33:56,290 for acceptance, they would look at the response 2434 02:33:56,290 --> 02:34:01,040 from the committee, which was non-support, 2435 02:34:01,040 --> 02:34:04,240 and any decision we made at council. 2436 02:34:04,240 --> 02:34:07,940 And from there, they would look at all those, 2437 02:34:07,940 --> 02:34:11,460 that information as evidence and make a decision. 2438 02:34:11,460 --> 02:34:15,380 I understand what staff is saying on the six stories. 2439 02:34:15,380 --> 02:34:19,390 I do believe though, is there not a way for us 2440 02:34:19,390 --> 02:34:22,640 to clean that up? 2441 02:34:22,640 --> 02:34:27,560 So I'll go back to the question about the tribunal 2442 02:34:27,560 --> 02:34:34,300 is in the request for the refusal 2443 02:34:34,300 --> 02:34:37,520 through the amendment that was brought forward, 2444 02:34:37,520 --> 02:34:41,250 it seemed as though the decision between, 2445 02:34:41,250 --> 02:34:44,760 or the information around the acceptance of the zoning, 2446 02:34:44,760 --> 02:34:49,030 and the refusal of the special provisions 2447 02:34:49,030 --> 02:34:51,340 was going to be seen as decoupled, 2448 02:34:51,340 --> 02:34:53,890 but my understanding is these are all part 2449 02:34:53,890 --> 02:34:56,980 of the same application, so when they're looked at, 2450 02:34:56,980 --> 02:34:58,880 they're looked at as a whole in the application, 2451 02:34:58,880 --> 02:35:03,920 not decoupled into set sections in the conversation. 2452 02:35:03,920 --> 02:35:05,490 I'm just trying to get clarity, 2453 02:35:05,490 --> 02:35:08,400 I don't know if that was clear to you, but. 2454 02:35:08,400 --> 02:35:10,270 - Go ahead. - Thank you, through your worship. 2455 02:35:10,270 --> 02:35:11,100 Yes, that's correct. 2456 02:35:11,100 --> 02:35:12,930 That'll be looking at the application as a whole, 2457 02:35:12,930 --> 02:35:16,740 what the applicant submitted was with those special provisions 2458 02:35:16,740 --> 02:35:19,950 to allow the reductions that staff did not support. 2459 02:35:19,950 --> 02:35:24,940 So that would be that, we'll say debate at the OLT, 2460 02:35:24,940 --> 02:35:28,500 it'll be the staff position and their opinion, 2461 02:35:28,500 --> 02:35:33,340 which is contrary to the applicant's position. 2462 02:35:33,340 --> 02:35:34,540 - Thank you, through you. 2463 02:35:34,540 --> 02:35:39,190 So I read this as contemplated as a partial refusal, 2464 02:35:39,190 --> 02:35:43,230 but I actually think then to follow that chain of thought, 2465 02:35:43,230 --> 02:35:46,500 then the decision coming out of planning, 2466 02:35:46,500 --> 02:35:49,220 and then whatever decision this council makes, 2467 02:35:49,220 --> 02:35:53,030 and let's say in this case, the speculate 2468 02:35:53,030 --> 02:35:56,310 that it's not approved, then to me, 2469 02:35:56,310 --> 02:35:59,640 that's actually a stronger case for saying, 2470 02:35:59,640 --> 02:36:04,070 we don't support what was proposed at this time, 2471 02:36:04,070 --> 02:36:07,750 the way that it was conceived and brought forward, 2472 02:36:07,750 --> 02:36:10,350 I think where it creates a challenge 2473 02:36:10,350 --> 02:36:12,640 is actually supporting the referral, 2474 02:36:12,640 --> 02:36:14,900 because if we support the referral, 2475 02:36:14,900 --> 02:36:16,960 then we're saying, well, there were portions 2476 02:36:16,960 --> 02:36:21,830 that yes, we all agreed with, but coming at a committee, 2477 02:36:21,830 --> 02:36:23,590 committee did not agree with those things, 2478 02:36:23,590 --> 02:36:26,900 and having listened to that discussion at committee, 2479 02:36:26,900 --> 02:36:29,130 I actually think I'm more comfortable 2480 02:36:29,130 --> 02:36:31,000 not supporting a referral, 2481 02:36:31,000 --> 02:36:34,660 because I think it creates a level of indecision 2482 02:36:34,660 --> 02:36:39,630 that actually creates a harder case to take to the OLT. 2483 02:36:39,630 --> 02:36:43,330 We had a strong recommendation coming out of PEC, 2484 02:36:43,330 --> 02:36:46,140 and that was not to support this. 2485 02:36:46,140 --> 02:36:50,100 So we weaken our position if we don't, 2486 02:36:50,100 --> 02:36:53,590 if we move forward with the referral. 2487 02:36:53,590 --> 02:36:58,320 That's just the way I read the situation. 2488 02:36:58,320 --> 02:37:05,580 - I'll add myself to the list of Councillor Frang, Chair. 2489 02:37:05,580 --> 02:37:08,820 - Thank you, and recognizing the mayor. 2490 02:37:08,820 --> 02:37:10,950 - So this is a really good discussion, 2491 02:37:10,950 --> 02:37:13,370 because I think there's a number of us 2492 02:37:13,370 --> 02:37:19,050 who are trying to support some concerns of the community, 2493 02:37:19,050 --> 02:37:21,740 but we have a bit of a difference of thought 2494 02:37:21,740 --> 02:37:23,630 on what might be the best way to do that, 2495 02:37:23,630 --> 02:37:26,710 'cause here's my understanding of the OLT process. 2496 02:37:26,710 --> 02:37:29,580 The city gets standing, and the developer gets standing, 2497 02:37:29,580 --> 02:37:33,480 and the kind people in the gallery don't 2498 02:37:33,480 --> 02:37:34,730 get to say anything there. 2499 02:37:34,730 --> 02:37:37,720 And so if it goes to the OLT through refusal, 2500 02:37:37,720 --> 02:37:39,390 basically what's gonna happen is, 2501 02:37:39,390 --> 02:37:40,550 our staff are gonna talk, 2502 02:37:40,550 --> 02:37:43,670 the developer's gonna present their original piece, 2503 02:37:43,670 --> 02:37:47,350 and someone there is gonna figure all this out. 2504 02:37:47,350 --> 02:37:48,840 And I don't disagree with Councillor Roman 2505 02:37:48,840 --> 02:37:51,240 that we could be pretty definitive on our position, 2506 02:37:51,240 --> 02:37:53,980 but we basically leave it up in the air, 2507 02:37:53,980 --> 02:37:56,750 and what we do know is that there is a base, 2508 02:37:56,750 --> 02:37:59,590 there is a base permission for six stories there. 2509 02:37:59,590 --> 02:38:02,450 So that probably doesn't, 2510 02:38:02,450 --> 02:38:04,410 I don't know, I'm not gonna predict what the OLT will do, 2511 02:38:04,410 --> 02:38:07,430 but basically that's that situation. 2512 02:38:07,430 --> 02:38:09,790 In what the deputy mayor is suggesting, 2513 02:38:09,790 --> 02:38:11,390 although I would agree there's some risk 2514 02:38:11,390 --> 02:38:15,950 that we haven't really finalized the council position, 2515 02:38:15,950 --> 02:38:18,390 we put it back into a process where we know 2516 02:38:18,390 --> 02:38:20,890 there's a commitment not to appeal, 2517 02:38:20,890 --> 02:38:24,440 there's a commitment to modify the development, 2518 02:38:24,440 --> 02:38:28,250 and there is a whole other opportunity for the public 2519 02:38:28,250 --> 02:38:29,730 to say whether they like or not 2520 02:38:29,730 --> 02:38:32,310 what comes out the other end of that process 2521 02:38:32,310 --> 02:38:35,070 before we actually have to go to an appeal. 2522 02:38:35,070 --> 02:38:38,540 And I, although I respect what Councillor Roman said, 2523 02:38:38,540 --> 02:38:41,930 I actually think that from the public's engagement perspective, 2524 02:38:41,930 --> 02:38:43,900 that might be a better process 2525 02:38:43,900 --> 02:38:47,950 to ensure that what comes out the other end 2526 02:38:47,950 --> 02:38:49,700 might be a modified proposal that our staff 2527 02:38:49,700 --> 02:38:51,970 have given, planning committee feedback on, 2528 02:38:51,970 --> 02:38:53,980 public has weighed in on, 2529 02:38:53,980 --> 02:38:56,450 then we go fight that at the OLT perhaps or not. 2530 02:38:56,450 --> 02:38:59,370 Maybe it's acceptable to the public, maybe it's not. 2531 02:38:59,370 --> 02:39:02,220 But I think I'm gonna support the referral 2532 02:39:02,220 --> 02:39:04,720 because I think that gives an opportunity 2533 02:39:04,720 --> 02:39:08,330 to change the development and reduce the units, 2534 02:39:08,330 --> 02:39:09,640 address some of these concerns, 2535 02:39:09,640 --> 02:39:11,170 gives the public another opportunity 2536 02:39:11,170 --> 02:39:13,740 to present with a revised application, 2537 02:39:13,740 --> 02:39:16,090 and we're not just leaving it up to the OLT 2538 02:39:16,090 --> 02:39:18,780 to decide with no public standing whatsoever there. 2539 02:39:18,780 --> 02:39:21,240 So I'm gonna support the referral, 2540 02:39:21,240 --> 02:39:22,930 not because I disagree with what some of my colleagues 2541 02:39:22,930 --> 02:39:24,460 who support the referral will say, 2542 02:39:24,460 --> 02:39:27,870 I just think it gives another opportunity for modification. 2543 02:39:27,870 --> 02:39:29,680 We don't have to, we don't let someone at the OLT 2544 02:39:29,680 --> 02:39:31,950 decide the final piece on this yet, 2545 02:39:31,950 --> 02:39:34,440 and we give the public another opportunity for a say 2546 02:39:34,440 --> 02:39:35,650 on whatever comes out the other end. 2547 02:39:35,650 --> 02:39:37,410 So I'll support the referral, 2548 02:39:37,410 --> 02:39:40,120 and this discussion won't be over, 2549 02:39:40,120 --> 02:39:42,910 but it'll be on something else 2550 02:39:42,910 --> 02:39:45,600 and not what's necessarily been proposed 2551 02:39:45,600 --> 02:39:49,030 originally by the developer. 2552 02:39:49,030 --> 02:39:51,680 - Thank you, and I'll return the chair back to the mayor. 2553 02:39:51,680 --> 02:39:57,380 - Okay, others, speakers. 2554 02:39:57,380 --> 02:40:00,660 Okay, so this is on the referral. 2555 02:40:00,660 --> 02:40:24,620 We're gonna open that for voting. 2556 02:40:24,620 --> 02:40:27,910 - Is it wrong? 2557 02:40:27,910 --> 02:40:31,150 - No, and my screen is frozen. 2558 02:40:31,150 --> 02:40:31,970 - Noted, thank you. 2559 02:40:31,970 --> 02:40:36,140 Closing the vote, motion carries, 10 to four. 2560 02:40:36,140 --> 02:40:38,350 - Councillor Layman. 2561 02:40:38,350 --> 02:40:40,660 - Thank you, Mayor, that concludes the fifth report 2562 02:40:40,660 --> 02:40:43,500 of the Planning Environment Committee. 2563 02:40:43,500 --> 02:40:45,860 - Okay, so the fifth report of Planning Committee 2564 02:40:45,860 --> 02:40:49,020 is done, we have added reports now, 2565 02:40:49,020 --> 02:40:51,860 so we have two items that are coming out of in-camera 2566 02:40:51,860 --> 02:40:54,640 for public consideration and vote. 2567 02:40:54,640 --> 02:40:57,550 Councillor Frank has kindly volunteered 2568 02:40:57,550 --> 02:40:59,660 to kind of volunteer, 2569 02:40:59,660 --> 02:41:02,320 volunteered to read out the end-camera piece, 2570 02:41:02,320 --> 02:41:06,650 so I'll turn it to you, Councillor Frank. 2571 02:41:06,650 --> 02:41:08,650 - Sixth report of the council enclosed session. 2572 02:41:08,650 --> 02:41:10,900 Your council includes session report. 2573 02:41:10,900 --> 02:41:13,100 One, RBC Place Double Tree Lease, 2574 02:41:13,100 --> 02:41:15,140 that on the recommendation of the city manager 2575 02:41:15,140 --> 02:41:17,530 with respect to the RBC Place Double Tree Lease, 2576 02:41:17,530 --> 02:41:19,330 the following actions be taken. 2577 02:41:19,330 --> 02:41:22,520 A, the request from Lening Convention Center Corporation 2578 02:41:22,520 --> 02:41:24,760 with business name RBC Place London 2579 02:41:24,760 --> 02:41:26,080 to enter into a lease agreement 2580 02:41:26,080 --> 02:41:28,190 with Holloway Lodging Limited Partnership 2581 02:41:28,190 --> 02:41:30,150 to lease space in the Double Tree Ballroom 2582 02:41:30,150 --> 02:41:32,580 located at 300 King Street, London, Ontario, 2583 02:41:32,580 --> 02:41:36,900 from January 1st, 2028 to December 31st, 2030, 2584 02:41:36,900 --> 02:41:39,650 if the purpose of doing so is for the object 2585 02:41:39,650 --> 02:41:41,570 of the London Convention Center Corporation, 2586 02:41:41,570 --> 02:41:45,240 set out in subsection two of the London Act, 2587 02:41:45,240 --> 02:41:47,360 City of London Act 1992, 2588 02:41:47,360 --> 02:41:49,510 being to maintain, operate, manage, market, 2589 02:41:49,510 --> 02:41:50,990 and promote the Convention Center 2590 02:41:50,990 --> 02:41:52,980 for the benefit of the city and the people 2591 02:41:52,980 --> 02:41:54,340 of the city of London be approved 2592 02:41:54,340 --> 02:41:57,420 and be the civic administration be authorized 2593 02:41:57,420 --> 02:41:59,250 to undertake all administrative steps 2594 02:41:59,250 --> 02:42:05,890 necessary in connection with this lease extension. 2595 02:42:05,890 --> 02:42:08,900 Two, property acquisition, Hamilton Road, 2596 02:42:08,900 --> 02:42:12,420 slash Southeast Thames River Parks, 2597 02:42:12,420 --> 02:42:14,650 that on the recommendation of the deputy city manager 2598 02:42:14,650 --> 02:42:17,090 finance supports with the concurrence 2599 02:42:17,090 --> 02:42:19,520 of the director of parks and forestry environment 2600 02:42:19,520 --> 02:42:21,720 and infrastructure on the advice 2601 02:42:21,720 --> 02:42:24,080 of the director of realty services with respect 2602 02:42:24,080 --> 02:42:26,590 to part lot eight concession one Westminster 2603 02:42:26,590 --> 02:42:29,710 and part one foot reserve abutting Cardinal Lane 2604 02:42:29,710 --> 02:42:33,580 plan 747 designated as parts four and 25 2605 02:42:33,580 --> 02:42:37,060 on 33 R nine three seven two, except part eight 2606 02:42:37,060 --> 02:42:40,610 on plan 33 R one nine seven six seven, 2607 02:42:40,610 --> 02:42:44,880 being all of pin zero eight one nine eight dash zero one 2608 02:42:44,880 --> 02:42:48,920 three six and part lot eight B F concession B Westminster 2609 02:42:48,920 --> 02:42:52,790 designated as a part one on plan 33 R one eight seven 2610 02:42:52,790 --> 02:42:56,380 eight seven, being all of pin zero eight one nine eight 2611 02:42:56,380 --> 02:43:00,460 dash zero one two five, being the property in the city 2612 02:43:00,460 --> 02:43:02,530 of London as shown on appendix B, 2613 02:43:02,530 --> 02:43:04,250 the following actions be taken. 2614 02:43:04,250 --> 02:43:06,770 A, the offer submitted by Robert Klein the vendor 2615 02:43:06,770 --> 02:43:10,290 to sell the subject subject property to the city 2616 02:43:10,290 --> 02:43:13,300 for the sum of two hundred and thirty five thousand 2617 02:43:13,300 --> 02:43:16,070 seven hundred and twenty dollars be accepted subject 2618 02:43:16,070 --> 02:43:18,330 to the terms and conditions as set out in agreement 2619 02:43:18,330 --> 02:43:22,410 as appendix C and B, the financing for the acquisition 2620 02:43:22,410 --> 02:43:25,110 be approved as set out in the source of financing report 2621 02:43:25,110 --> 02:43:27,770 here too as appendix A, that progress is made 2622 02:43:27,770 --> 02:43:30,350 with respect to items four point two and four point four 2623 02:43:30,350 --> 02:43:32,980 noted on the public agenda. 2624 02:43:32,980 --> 02:43:34,200 - Okay, that's presented here. 2625 02:43:34,200 --> 02:43:35,340 Let's like you're presenting a report. 2626 02:43:35,340 --> 02:43:38,380 So you get to stay there and that's on the floor. 2627 02:43:38,380 --> 02:43:43,820 Any discussion or debate on those two items from colleagues? 2628 02:43:43,820 --> 02:43:45,420 If not, then we can vote on them. 2629 02:43:45,420 --> 02:44:04,350 Okay, we'll open that vote. 2630 02:44:04,350 --> 02:44:09,330 - Noting Councilor for absent and Councilor Trosso absent 2631 02:44:09,330 --> 02:44:16,740 closing the vote motion carries 12 to zero. 2632 02:44:16,740 --> 02:44:18,560 - We've got no deferred matters. 2633 02:44:18,560 --> 02:44:21,510 We've got no inquiries that I see. 2634 02:44:21,510 --> 02:44:22,860 No emergency motions that were submitted. 2635 02:44:22,860 --> 02:44:24,460 We're on to bylaws. 2636 02:44:24,460 --> 02:44:27,460 We have a few pages of bylaws. 2637 02:44:27,460 --> 02:44:33,110 And I think we can divide it up this way. 2638 02:44:33,110 --> 02:44:43,280 We'll do bill. 2639 02:44:43,280 --> 02:44:47,300 So Councilor Stevenson, I think you're online. 2640 02:44:47,300 --> 02:44:52,170 You, I think you were contrary on bills 133, 137 and 141 2641 02:44:52,170 --> 02:44:53,240 but you were the only one. 2642 02:44:53,240 --> 02:44:54,810 So I could put those all together. 2643 02:44:54,810 --> 02:44:57,000 So if you want to vote against those bylaws, you could. 2644 02:44:57,000 --> 02:44:58,320 And we could do those as a set. 2645 02:44:58,320 --> 02:45:01,460 133, 137, 141, okay. 2646 02:45:01,460 --> 02:45:05,710 Councilor Van Mirbergen and Stevenson, 2647 02:45:05,710 --> 02:45:08,420 I think you voted against the Wellington Gateway Project 2648 02:45:08,420 --> 02:45:10,630 and the East London Link Project. 2649 02:45:10,630 --> 02:45:14,770 Bill's 147 and 148. 2650 02:45:14,770 --> 02:45:18,330 We could do those together, if you guys are okay. 2651 02:45:18,330 --> 02:45:24,440 And then we could do everything else. 2652 02:45:24,440 --> 02:45:32,120 And then the added bill, okay. 2653 02:45:32,120 --> 02:45:33,880 So everything plus the add-ins from the camera 2654 02:45:33,880 --> 02:45:34,700 would be next. 2655 02:45:34,700 --> 02:45:45,470 That's kind of everything everybody could do on. 2656 02:45:45,470 --> 02:45:49,100 And then the last thing we'll do is the licensing amendment 2657 02:45:49,100 --> 02:45:51,030 that Councilor Frank passed, 2658 02:45:51,030 --> 02:45:52,670 which I think there might be some. 2659 02:45:52,670 --> 02:45:56,870 That's the alternate version of the bylaw, 2660 02:45:56,870 --> 02:45:59,280 an amendment to the bylaw, 2661 02:45:59,280 --> 02:46:04,930 based on the changes we made to the age 12 thing. 2662 02:46:04,930 --> 02:46:05,740 All right, so we'll do that way. 2663 02:46:05,740 --> 02:46:06,570 I see everybody nodding. 2664 02:46:06,570 --> 02:46:07,390 Great. 2665 02:46:07,390 --> 02:46:09,240 This will be a lot faster by packaging them together that way. 2666 02:46:09,240 --> 02:46:14,690 So is there anybody who is good with everything we did today? 2667 02:46:14,690 --> 02:46:16,730 Oh, usually this is the two of you. 2668 02:46:16,730 --> 02:46:18,030 Deputy Mayor Lewis and Councillor Cuddy 2669 02:46:18,030 --> 02:46:19,800 are gonna move and second everything 2670 02:46:19,800 --> 02:46:21,380 'cause they're very agreeable. 2671 02:46:21,380 --> 02:46:24,170 So we'll do that. 2672 02:46:24,170 --> 02:46:28,120 And we're going to do 133, 137, 141. 2673 02:46:28,120 --> 02:46:29,700 These are related to the items, 2674 02:46:29,700 --> 02:46:31,930 Councillor Stevenson wanted separate. 2675 02:46:31,930 --> 02:47:02,910 We'll do first reading of that. 2676 02:47:02,910 --> 02:47:09,200 - Present vote, motion carries 12 to one. 2677 02:47:09,200 --> 02:47:10,590 - Okay, and we'll do second reading. 2678 02:47:10,590 --> 02:47:13,430 Any discussion on second reading? 2679 02:47:13,430 --> 02:47:50,970 Seeing none, we'll open that for voting. 2680 02:47:50,970 --> 02:47:53,370 - Present vote, motion carries 12 to one. 2681 02:47:53,370 --> 02:47:54,950 - And third reading of the same bill, 2682 02:47:54,950 --> 02:48:10,210 same mover and seconder. 2683 02:48:10,210 --> 02:48:20,610 - And carries 12 to one. 2684 02:48:20,610 --> 02:48:22,960 - Okay, the next we'll do bills 147 and 148, 2685 02:48:22,960 --> 02:48:26,450 related to the Wellington Gateway and East London Link. 2686 02:48:26,450 --> 02:48:28,520 I'll have that moved by Deputy Mayor Lewis, 2687 02:48:28,520 --> 02:48:30,180 and seconded by Councillor Cuddy, 2688 02:48:30,180 --> 02:49:00,130 and we'll open first reading. 2689 02:49:00,130 --> 02:49:03,120 - Motion carries 11 to one. 2690 02:49:03,120 --> 02:49:06,120 - Okay, second reading of those two bills. 2691 02:49:06,120 --> 02:49:08,330 Look for any discussion. 2692 02:49:08,330 --> 02:49:19,150 Okay, seeing none, we'll open that for voting. 2693 02:49:19,150 --> 02:49:24,290 - And carries 12 to? 2694 02:49:24,290 --> 02:49:38,340 - Third reading of those bills, we'll open that for voting. 2695 02:49:38,340 --> 02:49:48,270 - Motion carries 12 to one. 2696 02:49:48,270 --> 02:49:50,730 - So now we have everything else, including the audits, 2697 02:49:50,730 --> 02:49:57,990 with the exception of the stuff related to the Airbnb stuff. 2698 02:49:57,990 --> 02:50:08,170 The business licensing piece. 2699 02:50:08,170 --> 02:50:10,810 So it's everything about that. 2700 02:50:10,810 --> 02:50:12,880 I'll explain what that one is in a moment. 2701 02:50:12,880 --> 02:50:14,560 So if you wanted to vote against that, 2702 02:50:14,560 --> 02:50:15,390 it's not coming out. 2703 02:50:15,390 --> 02:50:16,880 It's everything else on the agenda, 2704 02:50:16,880 --> 02:50:25,910 including the audits now. 2705 02:50:25,910 --> 02:50:39,300 Okay, so this is, first reading's gonna open for voting. 2706 02:50:39,300 --> 02:50:43,110 - Motion carries 14-0. 2707 02:50:43,110 --> 02:50:44,990 - Okay, we'll open second reading. 2708 02:50:44,990 --> 02:50:47,660 Is there any discussion on second reading? 2709 02:50:47,660 --> 02:50:57,580 Okay, seeing none, we'll open that for voting. 2710 02:50:57,580 --> 02:51:02,500 - And carries 14-0. 2711 02:51:02,500 --> 02:51:14,060 - Third reading is open for voting. 2712 02:51:14,060 --> 02:51:27,390 - Motion carries 14-0. 2713 02:51:27,390 --> 02:51:28,730 - Okay, the final item we have 2714 02:51:28,730 --> 02:51:30,980 is the business licensing by-law item 2715 02:51:30,980 --> 02:51:35,860 with the amendments that Councilor Frank asked earlier. 2716 02:51:35,860 --> 02:51:45,620 We'll open that for first reading. 2717 02:51:45,620 --> 02:51:48,150 - It carries 13-1. 2718 02:51:48,150 --> 02:51:50,900 - And second reading, any discussion? 2719 02:51:50,900 --> 02:52:04,710 Okay, seeing none, we'll open that for voting. 2720 02:52:04,710 --> 02:52:06,450 - And carries 13-1. 2721 02:52:06,450 --> 02:52:08,270 - Okay, third and final reading. 2722 02:52:08,270 --> 02:52:26,980 We will open that for voting. 2723 02:52:26,980 --> 02:52:31,190 - Motion carries 13-1. 2724 02:52:31,190 --> 02:52:35,880 - Okay, that concludes all of the items before us. 2725 02:52:35,880 --> 02:52:38,170 We only have a motion to adjourn left. 2726 02:52:38,170 --> 02:52:40,700 Councilor Van Mirbergen and Councilor Ferreira 2727 02:52:40,700 --> 02:52:42,130 moved and seconded. 2728 02:52:42,130 --> 02:52:44,390 We can do this one by hand. 2729 02:52:44,390 --> 02:52:47,030 All those in favor of adjournment? 2730 02:52:47,030 --> 02:52:47,830 - Motion carries. 2731 02:52:47,830 --> 02:52:48,640 - All right, we're adjourned. 2732 02:52:48,640 --> 02:52:50,270 Thank you very much. 2733 02:52:50,270 --> 02:52:53,920 Enjoy watching the moon launch tomorrow, four night.