1 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:12,740 - Okay, thank you, please be seated. 2 00:17:12,740 --> 00:17:14,720 Welcome to the seventh meeting of municipal 3 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:15,070 council 4 00:17:15,070 --> 00:17:17,040 for this session. 5 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:22,770 I'm going to start with a land acknowledgement. 6 00:17:22,770 --> 00:17:23,950 We acknowledge that we are gathered today 7 00:17:23,950 --> 00:17:25,600 on the traditional lands of the Anishinaabak, 8 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:28,360 Haudenosaunee, Lene Peiwak and Adawandron peoples 9 00:17:28,360 --> 00:17:28,620 . 10 00:17:28,620 --> 00:17:30,510 We honor respect the history, languages and 11 00:17:30,510 --> 00:17:31,060 culture 12 00:17:31,060 --> 00:17:32,270 of the diverse indigenous people 13 00:17:32,270 --> 00:17:34,110 who call this territory home. 14 00:17:34,110 --> 00:17:35,450 We acknowledge all of the treaties 15 00:17:35,450 --> 00:17:36,600 that are specific to this area. 16 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:37,980 The two-row Wampum Belt Treaty 17 00:17:37,980 --> 00:17:39,470 of the Haudenosaunee Confederacy, 18 00:17:39,470 --> 00:17:41,240 Silver Covenant Chain, 19 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:42,990 Beaver Hunting Grounds Treaty of the Haudenosaun 20 00:17:42,990 --> 00:17:46,920 ee Nanfant Treaty of 1701, McKee Treaty of 1790, 21 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:50,780 the London Township Treaty of 1796, here on track 22 00:17:50,780 --> 00:17:53,740 treaty of 1827 with the Anishnabek, 23 00:17:53,740 --> 00:17:55,650 and the Dish with One Spoon Covenant Wampum of 24 00:17:55,650 --> 00:17:57,840 the Anishnabek and Haudenosaunee. 25 00:17:57,840 --> 00:17:59,560 The three indigenous nations that are neighbors 26 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:01,060 to London are the Chippewaas of the Thames 27 00:18:01,060 --> 00:18:03,200 First Nation, Oneida Nation of the Thames, and 28 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,370 the Muncie Delaware Nation who all continue 29 00:18:05,370 --> 00:18:08,110 to live as sovereign nations with individual and 30 00:18:08,110 --> 00:18:10,600 unique languages, cultures, and customs. 31 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:15,660 The London is also committed to making every 32 00:18:15,660 --> 00:18:17,320 effort to provide alternate formats and 33 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:17,790 communication 34 00:18:17,790 --> 00:18:19,800 supports for meetings upon request. To make a 35 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,360 request specific to this meeting you can contact 36 00:18:22,360 --> 00:18:28,470 council agenda at London.ca or 519-661-2489 37 00:18:28,470 --> 00:18:37,710 extension 2425. And with that it brings us to our 38 00:18:37,710 --> 00:18:41,510 national anthem. Sarah Weave is a core member of 39 00:18:41,510 --> 00:18:45,170 London Symphonia's violin section. As an active 40 00:18:45,170 --> 00:18:49,060 freelance violinist. She has recorded on Juno-nom 41 00:18:49,060 --> 00:18:51,100 inated CDs with both the 42 00:18:51,100 --> 00:18:53,860 National Youth Orchestra and the children's group 43 00:18:53,860 --> 00:18:54,890 Splash and Boots, which 44 00:18:54,890 --> 00:18:58,980 I have seen many times, having four kids. While 45 00:18:58,980 --> 00:19:01,210 not performing, she is an active 46 00:19:01,210 --> 00:19:03,990 teacher, instructing both piano and violin at all 47 00:19:03,990 --> 00:19:06,010 levels. Please rise and join me 48 00:19:06,010 --> 00:19:07,740 welcoming Sarah, who will now perform the 49 00:19:07,740 --> 00:21:12,690 National Anthem for us. We're a turn 50 00:21:12,690 --> 00:21:15,110 ourselves to item one, which is disclosures of 51 00:21:15,110 --> 00:21:16,590 pain or interest. I'll look 52 00:21:16,590 --> 00:21:23,660 for any disclosures the colleagues might have. 53 00:21:23,660 --> 00:21:25,690 Seeing none, then we're on to recognitions. 54 00:21:25,690 --> 00:21:29,330 I'm gonna start with Councillor Hopkins. 55 00:21:29,330 --> 00:21:34,140 - Thank you, your worship and members of council. 56 00:21:34,140 --> 00:21:36,360 I would like to briefly acknowledge 57 00:21:36,360 --> 00:21:39,330 International Fallissimia Day, 58 00:21:39,330 --> 00:21:42,500 which will be observed on May the 8th. 59 00:21:42,500 --> 00:21:45,380 This day is an important opportunity 60 00:21:45,380 --> 00:21:48,530 to raise awareness of Fallissimia. 61 00:21:48,530 --> 00:21:51,590 It's a serious, inherited blood disorder 62 00:21:51,590 --> 00:21:54,750 that affects individuals and families in our 63 00:21:54,750 --> 00:21:55,360 community 64 00:21:55,360 --> 00:21:56,960 and around the world. 65 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:00,900 It also recognizes the strength of those living 66 00:22:00,900 --> 00:22:03,640 with the condition as well as the caregivers, 67 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,040 healthcare professionals and advocates who 68 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:08,450 support them. 69 00:22:08,450 --> 00:22:11,990 I wanna thank members of our local community 70 00:22:11,990 --> 00:22:14,570 who have worked to bring greater awareness to 71 00:22:14,570 --> 00:22:15,430 this issue 72 00:22:15,430 --> 00:22:19,300 and to highlight the importance of access to care 73 00:22:19,300 --> 00:22:19,400 , 74 00:22:19,300 --> 00:22:22,780 treatment and public understanding. 75 00:22:22,780 --> 00:22:26,580 I'm joined here up in the gallery, Mr. Carlos Zaz 76 00:22:26,580 --> 00:22:27,960 uta, 77 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:31,660 who is a board member of the Falissimia 78 00:22:31,660 --> 00:22:32,580 Foundation 79 00:22:32,580 --> 00:22:37,130 of Canada and is also a resident in Lambeth. 80 00:22:37,130 --> 00:22:39,580 Thank you for being here. 81 00:22:39,580 --> 00:22:42,260 I'm also pleased that City Hall will be read 82 00:22:42,260 --> 00:22:45,470 on May 8th in recognition of International Faliss 83 00:22:45,470 --> 00:22:47,150 imia Day, 84 00:22:47,150 --> 00:22:49,880 supporting everyone that is afflicted with this 85 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:50,460 disease. 86 00:22:50,460 --> 00:22:52,670 Thank you. 87 00:22:52,670 --> 00:22:54,110 - Great, thank you. 88 00:22:54,110 --> 00:22:55,590 I will do the next recognition. 89 00:22:55,590 --> 00:23:02,360 So just give me more. 90 00:23:02,360 --> 00:23:04,540 So I wanted to start today by recognizing 91 00:23:04,540 --> 00:23:09,360 that the National Day of Morning is a day 92 00:23:09,360 --> 00:23:13,570 where the nation remembers those who were workers 93 00:23:13,570 --> 00:23:13,670 , 94 00:23:13,570 --> 00:23:17,380 who were killed, or injured, or made ill on the 95 00:23:17,380 --> 00:23:18,390 job. 96 00:23:18,390 --> 00:23:20,880 I think we first have to recognize the family's 97 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:21,150 friends 98 00:23:21,150 --> 00:23:23,460 and coworkers whose lives have been forever 99 00:23:23,460 --> 00:23:23,760 changed 100 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,010 by workplace tragedies. 101 00:23:26,010 --> 00:23:28,320 As a community in a city, we recognize that every 102 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:28,420 person 103 00:23:28,410 --> 00:23:30,500 deserves to be safe on the job. 104 00:23:30,500 --> 00:23:32,280 Everyone who leaves home at the start of a shift 105 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,600 deserves to come back home. 106 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,430 Each number or statistic on workplace injuries 107 00:23:37,430 --> 00:23:38,920 and fatalities is a person. 108 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,670 A family and a story that must be told and 109 00:23:41,670 --> 00:23:42,720 remembered. 110 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:43,690 You can't lose sight of the fact 111 00:23:43,690 --> 00:23:46,010 that workplace injuries and fatalities are 112 00:23:46,010 --> 00:23:47,360 preventable. 113 00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:49,100 As mayor and council, we all have the privilege 114 00:23:49,100 --> 00:23:50,450 of representing our city. 115 00:23:50,450 --> 00:23:52,090 With that comes the responsibility 116 00:23:52,090 --> 00:23:54,930 of being employers to thousands of people. 117 00:23:54,930 --> 00:23:56,350 And it's vital that we work together with our 118 00:23:56,350 --> 00:23:56,790 employees 119 00:23:56,790 --> 00:23:59,570 to put them first, prioritizing safety, 120 00:23:59,570 --> 00:24:01,950 healthy and respectful workplaces each and every 121 00:24:01,950 --> 00:24:07,150 day. 122 00:24:07,150 --> 00:24:10,110 many groups in the city who work to try to make 123 00:24:10,110 --> 00:24:11,940 workplaces safer. 124 00:24:11,940 --> 00:24:14,000 And we recognize their continued ongoing work, 125 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:15,820 whether they're organizing runs, raising money, 126 00:24:15,820 --> 00:24:17,180 raising awareness, 127 00:24:17,180 --> 00:24:19,560 or working to ensure that different organizations 128 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:20,410 have the tools and 129 00:24:20,410 --> 00:24:22,700 training that they need to ensure that workplaces 130 00:24:22,700 --> 00:24:23,220 are safe. 131 00:24:23,220 --> 00:24:24,730 I want to recognize that there was a number of 132 00:24:24,730 --> 00:24:25,790 ceremonies today and 133 00:24:25,790 --> 00:24:27,790 a number of members of council were able to 134 00:24:27,790 --> 00:24:28,830 attend them, or 135 00:24:28,830 --> 00:24:31,530 recognize in their own ways. 136 00:24:31,530 --> 00:24:33,650 And as a city and a council, we certainly paused 137 00:24:33,650 --> 00:24:35,300 to remember all of those who were 138 00:24:35,300 --> 00:24:37,770 and workplace strategy, but those who are also 139 00:24:37,770 --> 00:24:38,530 injured 140 00:24:38,530 --> 00:24:41,290 or did not get to return home in the same way 141 00:24:41,290 --> 00:24:44,460 that they left. 142 00:24:44,460 --> 00:24:47,920 I just wanted to end because even at the 143 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:48,530 corporation, 144 00:24:48,530 --> 00:24:50,880 there have been lives who have been lost over the 145 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:51,140 years, 146 00:24:51,140 --> 00:24:53,150 and so I just wanted to end with just a moment of 147 00:24:53,150 --> 00:24:53,480 science 148 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,100 for all those who have lost their lives 149 00:24:56,100 --> 00:25:14,100 due to workplace tragedies. 150 00:25:14,100 --> 00:25:25,220 Please be seated, thank you. 151 00:25:25,220 --> 00:25:28,130 - Good, Councillor Troso. 152 00:25:28,130 --> 00:25:30,910 - Thank you very much, and I want to thank the 153 00:25:30,910 --> 00:25:31,130 mayor 154 00:25:31,130 --> 00:25:33,920 for raising that and recognizing it. 155 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:35,810 I was one of the people that was at one of the 156 00:25:35,810 --> 00:25:37,010 ceremonies today. 157 00:25:37,010 --> 00:25:40,550 And I just want to add that the special focus in 158 00:25:40,550 --> 00:25:41,000 London 159 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,320 is looking at a very, very particular and 160 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:43,660 emerging 161 00:25:43,660 --> 00:25:46,690 type of workplace injury, and that is 162 00:25:46,690 --> 00:25:48,690 psychological damage. 163 00:25:48,690 --> 00:25:50,880 And there were a number of people in attendance 164 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,340 who were able to speak, the particular instances 165 00:25:53,340 --> 00:25:54,090 of that. 166 00:25:54,090 --> 00:25:56,960 And it's also worthy to note that the Lifetime 167 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:57,840 Achievement 168 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,600 Award from the London Labor Council for this 169 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:02,370 issue 170 00:26:02,370 --> 00:26:04,650 was awarded to Mr. Steve Holmes, 171 00:26:04,650 --> 00:26:07,370 who many of you know, he's an LTC bus driver. 172 00:26:07,370 --> 00:26:10,490 And Mr. Holmes recounted several instances 173 00:26:10,490 --> 00:26:14,970 over his career of bus drivers being in harm's 174 00:26:14,970 --> 00:26:15,190 way 175 00:26:15,190 --> 00:26:17,980 with respect to these types of issues. 176 00:26:17,980 --> 00:26:20,370 So again, thank you, thank you Mayor for raising 177 00:26:20,370 --> 00:26:20,580 that. 178 00:26:20,580 --> 00:26:24,860 And it certainly is an important occasion 179 00:26:24,860 --> 00:26:26,470 and I was very honored to be able 180 00:26:26,470 --> 00:26:28,070 to attend one of the ceremonies. 181 00:26:28,070 --> 00:26:29,880 Thank you very much. 182 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:34,330 - Thanks, any other recognitions? 183 00:26:34,330 --> 00:26:36,640 - Yeah, seeing none, a review of the conference 184 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:37,720 minor speaks to the room public. 185 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,370 We have none, that brings us to council in closed 186 00:26:40,370 --> 00:26:40,750 session. 187 00:26:40,750 --> 00:26:44,790 We have six items to go into closed session 188 00:26:44,790 --> 00:26:45,140 before. 189 00:26:45,140 --> 00:26:46,790 All the reasons are on the public agenda. 190 00:26:46,790 --> 00:26:52,120 I'll look, Councilor Trostac, we just have your 191 00:26:52,120 --> 00:26:53,690 microphone. 192 00:26:53,690 --> 00:26:56,410 I'll look for a motion to move into camera 193 00:26:56,410 --> 00:26:57,220 for those reasons. 194 00:26:57,220 --> 00:26:59,040 Councillor Cuddy, seconded by Councillor McAll 195 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:00,040 ister. 196 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:01,120 Any discussion? 197 00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:18,750 Okay, we'll open that for voting. 198 00:27:18,750 --> 00:27:21,260 - Councillor Ferrera, Councillor Lewis. 199 00:27:21,260 --> 00:27:23,150 - Councillor Lewis votes yes. 200 00:27:23,150 --> 00:27:24,990 - Councillor Ferrera votes yes. 201 00:27:24,990 --> 00:27:26,390 - No, thank you for closing the vote. 202 00:27:26,390 --> 00:27:28,840 Motion carries 13-0. 203 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:30,400 Okay, we'll be moving to meeting room five 204 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:30,830 colleagues 205 00:27:30,830 --> 00:27:31,810 for the public, you can stay here. 206 00:27:31,810 --> 02:07:32,320 We'll return as soon as we're done. 207 02:07:32,320 --> 02:07:46,180 Okay, thanks, please be seated. 208 02:07:46,180 --> 02:07:47,630 Okay, we're back in public session. 209 02:07:47,630 --> 02:07:49,580 I'll just note, Councilor Frank is online. 210 02:07:49,580 --> 02:07:55,120 I believe both Councilor Hillier and Deputy Mayor 211 02:07:55,120 --> 02:07:55,520 Lewis 212 02:07:55,520 --> 02:07:59,980 will be joining us online potentially shortly. 213 02:07:59,980 --> 02:08:01,360 We appreciate the public's patience 214 02:08:01,360 --> 02:08:04,100 that was a little longer than I had anticipated, 215 02:08:04,100 --> 02:08:07,380 but we'll proceed with the agenda now 216 02:08:07,380 --> 02:08:09,720 and we'll move into confirmation 217 02:08:09,720 --> 02:08:11,500 and signing of minutes of previous meetings. 218 02:08:11,500 --> 02:08:14,030 We have the sixth meeting that was held 219 02:08:14,030 --> 02:08:17,150 on March 31st, 2026. 220 02:08:17,150 --> 02:08:18,730 I'll look for a mover of the minutes. 221 02:08:18,730 --> 02:08:21,480 Councilor Hopkins, seconded by Councilor Van Mir 222 02:08:21,480 --> 02:08:22,250 bergen. 223 02:08:22,250 --> 02:08:25,830 Any discussion on the minutes? 224 02:08:25,830 --> 02:08:40,800 Seeing none, we'll open that for voting. 225 02:08:40,800 --> 02:08:42,690 - Is it for eight votes, yes? 226 02:08:42,690 --> 02:08:51,730 - No, did thank you. 227 02:08:51,730 --> 02:09:20,330 Those in the vote, motion carries 12 to zero. 228 02:09:20,330 --> 02:09:21,480 - Sorry, I was just trying to get out of some 229 02:09:21,480 --> 02:09:21,730 reading, 230 02:09:21,730 --> 02:09:22,660 but the clerk says no. 231 02:09:22,660 --> 02:09:28,840 So the first two items of the communication 232 02:09:28,840 --> 02:09:31,150 and the petitions are actually expropriations. 233 02:09:31,150 --> 02:09:33,930 So we're going to proceed with those two items 234 02:09:33,930 --> 02:09:34,170 first, 235 02:09:34,170 --> 02:09:37,070 and then every other item in the communications, 236 02:09:37,070 --> 02:09:38,300 including all of the added, 237 02:09:38,300 --> 02:09:42,000 have positions placed in the agenda. 238 02:09:42,000 --> 02:09:43,310 They will be referred to those, 239 02:09:43,310 --> 02:09:47,170 but we'll do that vote after we do 6.1 and 6.2 240 02:09:47,170 --> 02:09:48,590 first. 241 02:09:48,590 --> 02:09:51,480 And so, these are expropriations, 242 02:09:51,480 --> 02:09:52,970 just for Council and the public's reminder. 243 02:09:52,970 --> 02:09:54,340 What we have to do is, 244 02:09:54,340 --> 02:09:56,880 we have to move into sitting as the approval 245 02:09:56,880 --> 02:09:58,380 authority. 246 02:09:58,380 --> 02:10:01,140 We then make a recommendation on the expropri 247 02:10:01,140 --> 02:10:01,380 ations. 248 02:10:01,380 --> 02:10:03,300 then move back out of the approval authority 249 02:10:03,300 --> 02:10:05,610 into municipal council, and then we accept and 250 02:10:05,610 --> 02:10:06,240 vote on 251 02:10:06,240 --> 02:10:08,040 the recommendation made by the approval authority 252 02:10:08,040 --> 02:10:08,140 . 253 02:10:08,040 --> 02:10:10,410 So it's a little bit procedural, 254 02:10:10,410 --> 02:10:11,970 but in a lot of reading on my part, 255 02:10:11,970 --> 02:10:14,510 but we'll stick through it as pursuant 256 02:10:14,510 --> 02:10:17,870 to the expropriations act. 257 02:10:17,870 --> 02:10:25,510 All right, so I'll read the motion. 258 02:10:25,510 --> 02:10:27,400 I'm gonna move in seconder. 259 02:10:27,400 --> 02:10:29,900 Move that council convene as the approval 260 02:10:29,900 --> 02:10:30,260 authority 261 02:10:30,260 --> 02:10:32,420 pursuant to the provisions of the expropriation 262 02:10:32,420 --> 02:10:32,540 act, 263 02:10:32,540 --> 02:10:37,070 RSO 1990 section E26 is amended for the purpose 264 02:10:37,070 --> 02:10:39,250 of considering communication number two 265 02:10:39,250 --> 02:10:41,030 from the deputy city manager environmental and 266 02:10:41,030 --> 02:10:41,590 infrastructure 267 02:10:41,590 --> 02:10:43,450 with respect to the expropriation of lands 268 02:10:43,450 --> 02:10:45,600 that may be required for the project 269 02:10:45,600 --> 02:10:48,330 known as the amended environmental compliance 270 02:10:48,330 --> 02:10:48,720 approval, 271 02:10:48,720 --> 02:10:53,150 ECA for the expanded W-12A landfill. 272 02:10:53,150 --> 02:10:54,440 I look for a mover and a second urge 273 02:10:54,440 --> 02:10:56,050 to convene as the approval authority. 274 02:10:56,050 --> 02:10:57,270 Moved by Councillor Vameerberg 275 02:10:57,270 --> 02:10:59,720 and seconded by Councillor Cuddy. 276 02:10:59,720 --> 02:11:06,750 We'll open that vote. 277 02:11:06,750 --> 02:11:12,550 - Closing the vote, motion carries 12 to zero. 278 02:11:12,550 --> 02:11:15,310 - Okay, now sitting as the approval of approving 279 02:11:15,310 --> 02:11:15,980 authority, 280 02:11:15,980 --> 02:11:17,760 the motion is that on the recommendation 281 02:11:17,760 --> 02:11:20,080 of the Deputy City Manager in Environment and 282 02:11:20,080 --> 02:11:20,380 Infrastructure 283 02:11:20,380 --> 02:11:22,580 with the Concurrence, the Director of Climate 284 02:11:22,580 --> 02:11:22,900 Change 285 02:11:22,900 --> 02:11:24,250 and Environmental and Waste Management 286 02:11:24,250 --> 02:11:26,710 on the advice of the Director of Realty Services 287 02:11:26,710 --> 02:11:29,020 with regard to the expropriation of lands 288 02:11:29,020 --> 02:11:31,800 that may be required to comply with condition 18 289 02:11:31,800 --> 02:11:33,830 of the amended environmental compliance approval 290 02:11:33,830 --> 02:11:34,390 ECA 291 02:11:34,390 --> 02:11:37,250 for the expanded W12A landfill and that the 292 02:11:37,250 --> 02:11:38,590 following actions 293 02:11:38,590 --> 02:11:41,800 be taken in connection there with A. 294 02:11:41,800 --> 02:11:43,660 They'd counsel the Corporation of City London 295 02:11:43,660 --> 02:11:45,200 as the approval authority pursuant 296 02:11:45,200 --> 02:11:50,030 to the expropriation act, RSO 1990, section E26, 297 02:11:50,030 --> 02:11:52,760 as amended hereby approves the proposed expropri 298 02:11:52,760 --> 02:11:52,880 ation 299 02:11:52,880 --> 02:11:55,550 of lands as described in Schedule A, 300 02:11:55,550 --> 02:11:58,110 as appended to the staff report dated April 28th, 301 02:11:58,110 --> 02:11:59,510 2026, 302 02:11:59,510 --> 02:12:01,780 in the city of London County of Middlesex. 303 02:12:01,780 --> 02:12:03,030 It being noted that the reasons 304 02:12:03,030 --> 02:12:04,780 for making the decision are as follows. 305 02:12:04,780 --> 02:12:07,580 I, subject lands are required by the corporation 306 02:12:07,580 --> 02:12:09,300 of the city of London for the administrative 307 02:12:09,300 --> 02:12:09,630 title 308 02:12:09,630 --> 02:12:12,590 cleanup associated with the expanded W12A 309 02:12:12,590 --> 02:12:13,710 landfill. 310 02:12:13,710 --> 02:12:15,770 B, subject to the approval of A, 311 02:12:15,770 --> 02:12:18,230 a certificate of approval of B issued by the City 312 02:12:18,230 --> 02:12:18,620 of Clerk 313 02:12:18,620 --> 02:12:20,940 on behalf of the approving authority in the 314 02:12:20,940 --> 02:12:21,750 prescribed form. 315 02:12:21,750 --> 02:12:23,500 We'll look for a move and a seconder for that 316 02:12:23,500 --> 02:12:24,570 motion. 317 02:12:24,570 --> 02:12:27,800 Moved by Councillor Cuddy, Mr. Van Mierbergen. 318 02:12:27,800 --> 02:12:31,240 Any discussion? 319 02:12:31,240 --> 02:12:38,540 Okay, seeing none, we'll open that for voting. 320 02:12:38,540 --> 02:12:41,720 - Closing the vote, motion carries 12 to zero. 321 02:12:41,720 --> 02:12:43,280 - All right, next, we will adjourn as the 322 02:12:43,280 --> 02:12:44,020 approval authority. 323 02:12:44,020 --> 02:12:46,900 So that the meeting of the approving authority be 324 02:12:46,900 --> 02:12:47,460 adjourned 325 02:12:47,460 --> 02:12:49,710 and that council reconvene a regular session 326 02:12:49,710 --> 02:12:52,970 moved by Councillor Layman, 327 02:12:52,970 --> 02:12:56,260 seconded by Councillor Hopkins. 328 02:12:56,260 --> 02:13:05,790 We'll open that for voting. 329 02:13:05,790 --> 02:13:09,760 - Motion carries 12 to zero. 330 02:13:09,760 --> 02:13:11,460 - Okay, now sitting as municipal council, 331 02:13:11,460 --> 02:13:13,150 we have a recommendation before us 332 02:13:13,150 --> 02:13:17,150 from the approval authority, approving authority. 333 02:13:17,150 --> 02:13:18,970 And it reads as follows that on the 334 02:13:18,970 --> 02:13:19,500 recommendation 335 02:13:19,500 --> 02:13:21,210 of the deputy city manager environment 336 02:13:21,210 --> 02:13:22,710 and infrastructure with the concurrence 337 02:13:22,710 --> 02:13:24,150 of the director of environment and waste 338 02:13:24,150 --> 02:13:24,620 management 339 02:13:24,620 --> 02:13:26,690 on the advice of the director of realty services 340 02:13:26,690 --> 02:13:28,470 with respect to the expropriation of lands 341 02:13:28,470 --> 02:13:31,530 that may be required to comply with condition 18, 342 02:13:31,530 --> 02:13:33,900 the amended environmental compliance approval ECA 343 02:13:33,900 --> 02:13:36,820 with the expanded W-12A landfill 344 02:13:36,820 --> 02:13:39,070 and that the following actions be taken A, 345 02:13:39,070 --> 02:13:41,530 proposed by-law as appended to the staff report 346 02:13:41,530 --> 02:13:43,950 dated April 28th as appendix A, 347 02:13:43,950 --> 02:13:46,250 being a by-law to expropriate lands in the city 348 02:13:46,250 --> 02:13:46,490 of London 349 02:13:46,490 --> 02:13:47,880 in the county of Middlesex, 350 02:13:47,880 --> 02:13:51,080 the expanded W-12A landfill project B introduced 351 02:13:51,080 --> 02:13:53,290 that municipal council at the meeting 352 02:13:53,290 --> 02:13:55,920 to be held on April 28th, 2026. 353 02:13:55,920 --> 02:13:58,580 And B, the civic administration be directed 354 02:13:58,580 --> 02:14:01,340 to take all necessary steps to prepare a plan 355 02:14:01,340 --> 02:14:03,970 or plans showing the expropriation of lands 356 02:14:03,970 --> 02:14:06,570 and to register such plans or plans 357 02:14:06,570 --> 02:14:08,810 in the appropriate registry or land titles office 358 02:14:08,810 --> 02:14:10,640 pursuant to the expropriation act, 359 02:14:10,640 --> 02:14:14,630 expropriations act to RSO 1990 section E26 360 02:14:14,630 --> 02:14:16,700 within three months of the approval authority 361 02:14:16,700 --> 02:14:20,610 granting approval of set expropriation. 362 02:14:20,610 --> 02:14:21,970 And see that the mayor and the clerk be 363 02:14:21,970 --> 02:14:22,450 authorized 364 02:14:22,450 --> 02:14:24,480 to sign on behalf of the expropriating authority, 365 02:14:24,480 --> 02:14:27,610 the plan or plans as signed by the Ontario Land 366 02:14:27,610 --> 02:14:28,190 Surveyor 367 02:14:28,190 --> 02:14:30,060 showing the expropriated lands. 368 02:14:30,060 --> 02:14:32,400 indeed that the city clerk be authorized and 369 02:14:32,400 --> 02:14:32,980 directed 370 02:14:32,980 --> 02:14:35,430 to execute and serve notices of an expropriation 371 02:14:35,430 --> 02:14:35,890 required 372 02:14:35,890 --> 02:14:40,690 by the expropriations act, RSO 1990, section E26, 373 02:14:40,690 --> 02:14:42,980 and such notices of possession that may be 374 02:14:42,980 --> 02:14:43,270 required 375 02:14:43,270 --> 02:14:48,330 to obtain possession of the expropriated lands. 376 02:14:48,330 --> 02:14:51,970 Moved and seconded by Councillor Cuddy, 377 02:14:51,970 --> 02:14:53,450 seconded by Councillor McAllister, 378 02:14:53,450 --> 02:14:58,470 any discussion on that recommendation? 379 02:14:58,470 --> 02:15:16,390 Okay, seeing none, we can open that for voting. 380 02:15:16,390 --> 02:15:23,730 - Opposed in the vote, motion carries 12-0. 381 02:15:23,730 --> 02:15:25,580 And just for colleagues, the E-Scribe is just a 382 02:15:25,580 --> 02:15:26,130 little slow, 383 02:15:26,130 --> 02:15:28,880 so it just might take a moment for those votes to 384 02:15:28,880 --> 02:15:30,290 pop up. 385 02:15:30,290 --> 02:15:36,090 For sections 6.3 all the way through, 6.10. 386 02:15:36,090 --> 02:15:38,230 We have various parts of the agenda 387 02:15:38,230 --> 02:15:40,580 that those pieces of communications refer to. 388 02:15:40,580 --> 02:15:42,440 I have a consolidated motion referring all of 389 02:15:42,440 --> 02:15:42,600 those 390 02:15:42,600 --> 02:15:44,350 components to all of those parts of the agenda. 391 02:15:44,350 --> 02:15:45,340 I'll look for a mover for that. 392 02:15:45,340 --> 02:15:47,550 Councilor Vameerberg and seconded by Councilor 393 02:15:47,550 --> 02:15:48,010 Ferreira. 394 02:15:48,010 --> 02:15:51,320 Any discussion on the referral of those items? 395 02:15:51,320 --> 02:15:58,480 Okay, seeing them, we'll open that for voting. 396 02:15:58,480 --> 02:16:04,550 - Closing the vote, motion carries 12 to zero. 397 02:16:04,550 --> 02:16:07,290 - Okay, item seven, motions to which notice is 398 02:16:07,290 --> 02:16:07,780 given. 399 02:16:07,780 --> 02:16:11,260 There are none, courts. 400 02:16:11,260 --> 02:16:14,470 We have report 8.1, which is the sixth report 401 02:16:14,470 --> 02:16:17,350 of the Strategic and Priorities and Policy 402 02:16:17,350 --> 02:16:18,110 Committee. 403 02:16:18,110 --> 02:16:22,360 I'm gonna turn it over to the Vice Chair, 404 02:16:22,360 --> 02:16:23,990 Councillor ramen, to present the report 405 02:16:23,990 --> 02:16:27,330 on behalf of the Chair and Council. 406 02:16:27,330 --> 02:16:28,690 - Thank you and through you. 407 02:16:28,690 --> 02:16:33,850 I would like to present the sixth report of SPPC, 408 02:16:35,510 --> 02:16:38,930 that meeting so far, I've been asked to pull a 409 02:16:38,930 --> 02:16:39,730 few items 410 02:16:39,730 --> 02:16:44,010 from the list, I've been asked to pull five, six, 411 02:16:44,010 --> 02:16:44,680 and eight 412 02:16:44,680 --> 02:16:47,660 and I will just look around to see if there are 413 02:16:47,660 --> 02:16:48,290 any other 414 02:16:48,290 --> 02:16:54,150 pull requests from my colleagues. 415 02:16:54,150 --> 02:16:55,530 - Would anybody else like anything done with 416 02:16:55,530 --> 02:16:56,960 separate? 417 02:16:56,960 --> 02:17:05,230 Other than five, six, and eight? 418 02:17:05,230 --> 02:17:07,270 Seeing none, you can prepare a motion. 419 02:17:07,270 --> 02:17:11,310 - Thank you, I'd like to put items one to four, 420 02:17:11,310 --> 02:17:21,880 item seven, nine to 12 on the floor. 421 02:17:21,880 --> 02:17:23,370 - Okay, so those items are on the floor, 422 02:17:23,370 --> 02:17:25,660 I look for any discussion on those items from 423 02:17:25,660 --> 02:17:30,120 colleagues. 424 02:17:30,120 --> 02:17:31,780 Okay, seeing none, we'll open those items for 425 02:17:31,780 --> 02:17:45,950 voting. 426 02:17:45,950 --> 02:17:49,080 - Closing the vote, motion carries 12 to zero. 427 02:17:49,080 --> 02:17:50,620 - Go ahead, Councilor Roman. 428 02:17:50,620 --> 02:17:52,520 - Thank you, I'd like to put item five on the 429 02:17:52,520 --> 02:17:52,740 floor. 430 02:17:52,740 --> 02:17:57,230 That's 2.1, the micromodular shelter's update. 431 02:17:57,230 --> 02:17:58,990 - Okay, that item is on the floor. 432 02:17:58,990 --> 02:18:03,770 I'll look for speakers on that particular item. 433 02:18:03,770 --> 02:18:05,740 Go ahead, Councilor Stevenson. 434 02:18:05,740 --> 02:18:06,770 - Thank you. 435 02:18:06,770 --> 02:18:09,270 We did get a briefing note from staff 436 02:18:09,270 --> 02:18:12,200 with a breakdown of the details on the costs, 437 02:18:12,200 --> 02:18:16,160 both the monthly and the capital. 438 02:18:16,160 --> 02:18:18,500 - But I shared it on Facebook and there's a lot 439 02:18:18,500 --> 02:18:20,130 of feedback 440 02:18:20,130 --> 02:18:22,280 that people were expecting more detail. 441 02:18:22,280 --> 02:18:26,560 So I know, you know, our 13,500 a year in expense 442 02:18:26,560 --> 02:18:27,100 accounts 443 02:18:27,100 --> 02:18:29,370 are there item by item by item. 444 02:18:29,370 --> 02:18:32,550 And this was $7 million in property tax money. 445 02:18:32,550 --> 02:18:34,620 I just wondered through you to staff, 446 02:18:34,620 --> 02:18:39,790 is it possible to get either publicly posted 447 02:18:39,790 --> 02:18:42,820 or shared with council a more detailed breakdown 448 02:18:42,820 --> 02:18:45,730 of the costs? 449 02:18:45,730 --> 02:18:47,580 - Mr. Dickens. 450 02:18:47,580 --> 02:18:48,750 - Through you, your worship, 451 02:18:48,750 --> 02:18:50,900 well, I can't speak for the capital costs. 452 02:18:50,900 --> 02:18:53,000 This is why we asked a committee, 453 02:18:53,000 --> 02:18:55,390 the level of detail that committee wanted, 454 02:18:55,390 --> 02:18:58,380 which was a high-level breakdown of the operating 455 02:18:58,380 --> 02:18:58,620 costs 456 02:18:58,620 --> 02:19:01,390 broken into the large chunks of where that 457 02:19:01,390 --> 02:19:02,030 operating costs go. 458 02:19:02,030 --> 02:19:04,090 So we are reflecting in that briefing note, 459 02:19:04,090 --> 02:19:05,830 what we understood to be the direction from 460 02:19:05,830 --> 02:19:06,550 council, 461 02:19:06,550 --> 02:19:08,250 should council have different direction, 462 02:19:08,250 --> 02:19:12,630 where in your hands. 463 02:19:12,630 --> 02:19:13,950 - Go ahead, Councillor Stevenson. 464 02:19:13,950 --> 02:19:14,940 - Thank you, I appreciate that. 465 02:19:14,940 --> 02:19:17,090 It wasn't criticism we got what we asked for. 466 02:19:17,090 --> 02:19:19,280 I'm just sharing what the public is telling me, 467 02:19:19,280 --> 02:19:21,170 and I serve at the pleasure of them. 468 02:19:21,170 --> 02:19:24,550 So they're asking, is it possible to get 469 02:19:24,550 --> 02:19:26,340 a more detailed breakdown? 470 02:19:26,340 --> 02:19:29,130 And so I'm just wondering if a motion is needed 471 02:19:29,130 --> 02:19:31,460 or if that's something that could be provided 472 02:19:31,460 --> 02:19:36,540 publicly? 473 02:19:36,540 --> 02:19:37,850 - I think we had a motion last time. 474 02:19:37,850 --> 02:19:41,720 So if, I mean, Saf gave us exactly what we asked 475 02:19:41,720 --> 02:19:42,080 for. 476 02:19:42,080 --> 02:19:43,960 So if, I would say if colleagues were looking 477 02:19:43,960 --> 02:19:46,360 for something with a more detailed breakdown, 478 02:19:46,360 --> 02:19:50,290 that would likely be a motion asking for it at 479 02:19:50,290 --> 02:19:51,120 this point. 480 02:19:51,120 --> 02:19:53,430 only because staff responded to the previous 481 02:19:53,430 --> 02:19:53,810 direction 482 02:19:53,810 --> 02:19:57,190 and provided the information as we asked for it. 483 02:19:57,190 --> 02:20:00,460 - Okay, thank you, well, I'll leave it with my 484 02:20:00,460 --> 02:20:00,990 colleagues 485 02:20:00,990 --> 02:20:05,820 to see, because the thing is, 486 02:20:05,820 --> 02:20:07,760 it would be around the wording of it too. 487 02:20:07,760 --> 02:20:12,150 I understand that the monthly is a budget at this 488 02:20:12,150 --> 02:20:12,520 point 489 02:20:12,520 --> 02:20:14,460 and it might vary month to month. 490 02:20:14,460 --> 02:20:18,820 So I guess it was looking for guidance regarding 491 02:20:18,820 --> 02:20:21,230 how best to get the clarity that the public is 492 02:20:21,230 --> 02:20:22,600 looking for. 493 02:20:22,600 --> 02:20:24,350 It's something I can do offline as well 494 02:20:24,350 --> 02:20:26,700 potentially bring through caps. 495 02:20:26,700 --> 02:20:29,130 I also, I was watching some of the videos 496 02:20:29,130 --> 02:20:31,910 around the new site and I believe there was 497 02:20:31,910 --> 02:20:32,230 mention 498 02:20:32,230 --> 02:20:35,220 that there might be TVs and stuff being purchased 499 02:20:35,220 --> 02:20:36,650 and put into the shelters. 500 02:20:36,650 --> 02:20:42,770 I just want to confirm if I heard that correctly. 501 02:20:42,770 --> 02:20:44,390 - Sure, I'll go to staff to talk about 502 02:20:44,390 --> 02:20:45,510 some of the components of the site. 503 02:20:45,510 --> 02:20:47,670 Mr. Dickens, go ahead. 504 02:20:47,670 --> 02:20:49,460 - Thank you, Your Worship. 505 02:20:49,460 --> 02:20:52,270 There are TVs installed in the common trailers. 506 02:20:52,270 --> 02:20:54,570 I believe those were donated items. 507 02:20:54,570 --> 02:20:57,820 However, I will defer to Mr. Green, 508 02:20:57,820 --> 02:21:00,200 who I believe is on the call. 509 02:21:00,200 --> 02:21:01,280 - Mr. Green, go ahead. 510 02:21:01,280 --> 02:21:05,890 Thanks for joining us virtually. 511 02:21:05,890 --> 02:21:08,130 - Good morning, just testing to make sure 512 02:21:08,130 --> 02:21:09,590 how do you video look good, okay. 513 02:21:09,590 --> 02:21:11,080 - Yep, we can hear you good. 514 02:21:11,080 --> 02:21:12,460 - Okay, thank you and through the chair, yes. 515 02:21:12,460 --> 02:21:13,280 Mr. Dickens is correct. 516 02:21:13,280 --> 02:21:17,440 There is two televisions in the recreational 517 02:21:17,440 --> 02:21:18,130 trailers. 518 02:21:18,130 --> 02:21:20,960 Many of the residents, not many. 519 02:21:20,960 --> 02:21:22,910 Several of the residents do have televisions 520 02:21:22,910 --> 02:21:25,230 in their own trailer, which they provided 521 02:21:25,230 --> 02:21:25,770 themselves as well. 522 02:21:25,770 --> 02:21:29,360 So yes, donation of two provided in the common 523 02:21:29,360 --> 02:21:29,810 spaces 524 02:21:29,810 --> 02:21:34,110 and there are several others in the cabin spaces. 525 02:21:34,110 --> 02:21:35,640 - Councillor Stevenson. 526 02:21:35,640 --> 02:21:37,320 - Okay, thank you. 527 02:21:37,320 --> 02:21:41,090 So, you know, it's generally I'm hearing from the 528 02:21:41,090 --> 02:21:41,370 public. 529 02:21:41,370 --> 02:21:43,830 They're very pleased that 60 to 70 people 530 02:21:43,830 --> 02:21:44,900 have found shelter. 531 02:21:44,900 --> 02:21:47,290 We're hearing some good stories from in there. 532 02:21:47,290 --> 02:21:49,630 It was supported unanimously at council. 533 02:21:49,630 --> 02:21:52,610 I was, I only voted against the source of funding 534 02:21:52,610 --> 02:21:52,710 . 535 02:21:52,670 --> 02:21:56,490 But one of the things that is coming up with the 536 02:21:56,490 --> 02:21:56,780 public 537 02:21:56,780 --> 02:22:01,560 the cost because it is $4,800 per month per 538 02:22:01,560 --> 02:22:04,980 shelter when the capital costs were all funded. 539 02:22:04,980 --> 02:22:07,760 It is a little mind boggling to the public and to 540 02:22:07,760 --> 02:22:09,710 those who are trying to survive on 541 02:22:09,710 --> 02:22:14,390 their own on a low income on a pension or on ODSP 542 02:22:14,390 --> 02:22:15,440 or OW. 543 02:22:15,440 --> 02:22:18,350 I know I took a drive out to Hamilton about six 544 02:22:18,350 --> 02:22:20,810 months after the Tiffany Barton shelter 545 02:22:20,810 --> 02:22:23,950 site went up and I had an opportunity to speak 546 02:22:23,950 --> 02:22:26,340 with someone who worked there. 547 02:22:26,340 --> 02:22:29,130 asked if there were any challenges and one of the 548 02:22:29,130 --> 02:22:30,320 things that they shared was 549 02:22:30,320 --> 02:22:32,650 that no one even wanted to go look in an 550 02:22:32,650 --> 02:22:35,500 apartment because they had maybe made 551 02:22:35,500 --> 02:22:38,830 it too good to be there and you know although 552 02:22:38,830 --> 02:22:40,800 that's kind of a success that 553 02:22:40,800 --> 02:22:43,220 people are happy there it also maybe doesn't set 554 02:22:43,220 --> 02:22:45,180 them up for the realities 555 02:22:45,180 --> 02:22:48,450 of living on their own on ODSP or OW we have to 556 02:22:48,450 --> 02:22:51,050 find your own transportation get 557 02:22:51,050 --> 02:22:54,050 on the bus get to appointments figure out your 558 02:22:54,050 --> 02:22:55,700 own food when when everything's 559 02:22:55,700 --> 02:23:01,120 brought there, including medical care, pet care, 560 02:23:01,120 --> 02:23:04,530 and food is all prepared and everything. 561 02:23:04,530 --> 02:23:07,550 Again, I'm just sharing what I hear from the 562 02:23:07,550 --> 02:23:09,560 public in terms of their concerns in terms 563 02:23:09,560 --> 02:23:12,820 of what the conditions that they're facing and 564 02:23:12,820 --> 02:23:14,350 they're living with. 565 02:23:14,350 --> 02:23:16,080 You know, it was mentioned even by the mayor that 566 02:23:16,080 --> 02:23:18,300 a lot of people don't have air conditioning. 567 02:23:18,300 --> 02:23:23,180 So although we want this to be, well, people are 568 02:23:23,180 --> 02:23:26,790 asking me what the transition plan is, 569 02:23:26,790 --> 02:23:30,210 why sort of basic life skills, such as food 570 02:23:30,210 --> 02:23:30,860 preparation, 571 02:23:30,860 --> 02:23:33,240 stuff, is there a way to bring the cost down? 572 02:23:33,240 --> 02:23:34,950 Is there a way to help set people up 573 02:23:34,950 --> 02:23:37,440 for more independent living as they move forward, 574 02:23:37,440 --> 02:23:38,910 knowing that this is just a shelter. 575 02:23:38,910 --> 02:23:40,950 It's not a long-term stay. 576 02:23:40,950 --> 02:23:46,980 So while I'm pleased that we've got another 577 02:23:46,980 --> 02:23:47,410 opportunity 578 02:23:47,410 --> 02:23:50,530 to help people who are living unsheltered, 579 02:23:50,530 --> 02:23:53,340 I'm gonna be voting no to receiving the report. 580 02:23:53,340 --> 02:23:55,620 And I just wanna explain why, 581 02:23:55,620 --> 02:23:58,410 And it's because I'm hearing clearly from the 582 02:23:58,410 --> 02:23:58,680 public 583 02:23:58,680 --> 02:24:01,590 that there's not enough transparency around the 584 02:24:01,590 --> 02:24:01,870 cost. 585 02:24:01,870 --> 02:24:05,050 They want an itemized listing of costs and invo 586 02:24:05,050 --> 02:24:05,600 ices. 587 02:24:05,600 --> 02:24:07,620 Personally, I understand that. 588 02:24:07,620 --> 02:24:10,040 And they also want to understand why the cost is 589 02:24:10,040 --> 02:24:10,990 $4,800 590 02:24:10,990 --> 02:24:14,440 per month and what the transition plans 591 02:24:14,440 --> 02:24:19,020 are to ensure that we're treating people with the 592 02:24:19,020 --> 02:24:19,180 care 593 02:24:19,180 --> 02:24:22,850 and respect that they need, but also asking 594 02:24:22,850 --> 02:24:26,870 for some working towards the independence at 595 02:24:26,870 --> 02:24:27,260 least. 596 02:24:27,260 --> 02:24:31,010 So thank you. 597 02:24:31,010 --> 02:24:34,080 - Okay, I'll look for other speakers. 598 02:24:34,080 --> 02:24:38,000 Councillor Troso. 599 02:24:38,000 --> 02:24:40,260 - Well, thank you through the chair. 600 02:24:40,260 --> 02:24:42,860 I'll certainly be voting to receive this report. 601 02:24:42,860 --> 02:24:45,930 That's all we're being asked to do. 602 02:24:45,930 --> 02:24:48,430 I know from time to time, 603 02:24:48,430 --> 02:24:51,150 members of the public like to leave comments 604 02:24:51,150 --> 02:24:53,300 on social media posts. 605 02:24:53,300 --> 02:24:55,720 May I ask the clerk that we did we receive 606 02:24:55,720 --> 02:24:56,320 anything 607 02:24:56,320 --> 02:24:59,250 in the form of a added agenda item 608 02:24:59,250 --> 02:25:03,370 or some request to actually put these concerns 609 02:25:03,370 --> 02:25:06,110 in front of council with respect to this item 610 02:25:06,110 --> 02:25:25,250 on the agenda. 611 02:25:25,250 --> 02:25:27,540 - Councilor, if you're asking whether all the 612 02:25:27,540 --> 02:25:27,710 communications 613 02:25:27,710 --> 02:25:28,960 received are on the agenda, 614 02:25:28,960 --> 02:25:32,780 all the things that were given to the clerk 615 02:25:32,780 --> 02:25:35,730 are on the agenda if they were there on time. 616 02:25:35,730 --> 02:25:38,570 I mean, the clerk will not, 617 02:25:38,570 --> 02:25:39,910 I mean, she's not gonna comment on all those, 618 02:25:39,910 --> 02:25:42,200 but there are things we've received are on the 619 02:25:42,200 --> 02:25:43,020 public agenda 620 02:25:43,020 --> 02:25:45,690 as per the prescribed timeframe. 621 02:25:45,690 --> 02:25:48,020 - Okay, well, thank you very much. 622 02:25:48,020 --> 02:25:50,740 I think it's really important for those of us on 623 02:25:50,740 --> 02:25:51,810 council 624 02:25:51,810 --> 02:25:54,130 who engage in social media, 625 02:25:54,130 --> 02:25:58,100 to when people write in with concerns 626 02:25:58,100 --> 02:25:59,840 that should be forwarded to council, 627 02:25:59,840 --> 02:26:02,750 that they're reminded that posting something 628 02:26:02,750 --> 02:26:06,970 on social media comment on Facebook, for example, 629 02:26:06,970 --> 02:26:09,160 doesn't really get into our record 630 02:26:09,160 --> 02:26:11,260 and they might want to take the additional step 631 02:26:11,260 --> 02:26:13,490 of sending in an added communication item. 632 02:26:13,490 --> 02:26:15,840 I know I always do that when somebody says 633 02:26:15,840 --> 02:26:17,380 they want something on the record 634 02:26:17,380 --> 02:26:19,280 and I think others should do that as well. 635 02:26:19,280 --> 02:26:21,940 Thank you. 636 02:26:21,940 --> 02:26:23,440 - Okay, I'll look to other speakers on this. 637 02:26:23,440 --> 02:26:25,840 Go ahead, Councillor Ferrera. 638 02:26:25,840 --> 02:26:27,270 - Thank you, Mayor. 639 02:26:27,270 --> 02:26:29,060 I'm just kind of following up. 640 02:26:29,060 --> 02:26:31,240 So I'm looking at the monthly expenses. 641 02:26:31,240 --> 02:26:34,070 I do see it's $288,000 a month for the entire 642 02:26:34,070 --> 02:26:34,300 site 643 02:26:34,300 --> 02:26:36,480 as it operates from the report. 644 02:26:36,480 --> 02:26:37,710 I just wanted to break that down. 645 02:26:37,710 --> 02:26:40,420 So is that from what Councillor Stevenson is 646 02:26:40,420 --> 02:26:40,790 referring to? 647 02:26:40,790 --> 02:26:42,560 I think she said 4800. 648 02:26:42,560 --> 02:26:45,320 I broke it down to 4200 divided by 70 per 649 02:26:45,320 --> 02:26:46,670 individual. 650 02:26:46,670 --> 02:26:48,420 I just wanted to know for that 4200, 651 02:26:48,420 --> 02:26:52,020 What services do we provide in addition to just 652 02:26:52,020 --> 02:26:52,420 housing? 653 02:26:52,420 --> 02:26:54,000 So I believe it's not just housing. 654 02:26:54,000 --> 02:26:56,490 I believe we have further supports, 655 02:26:56,490 --> 02:26:59,110 whether it's getting people paper ready, 656 02:26:59,110 --> 02:27:01,920 whether it's I think employment services are 657 02:27:01,920 --> 02:27:02,240 included 658 02:27:02,240 --> 02:27:03,060 in that food. 659 02:27:03,060 --> 02:27:04,160 So I was wondering if staff could break down 660 02:27:04,160 --> 02:27:09,070 the extra numbers on that. 661 02:27:09,070 --> 02:27:11,120 - Go ahead. 662 02:27:11,120 --> 02:27:12,180 - Thank you, Your Worship. 663 02:27:12,180 --> 02:27:14,460 I'll start with this response. 664 02:27:14,460 --> 02:27:17,070 As we shared with council members, 665 02:27:17,070 --> 02:27:21,440 those operating costs include the staffing on 666 02:27:21,440 --> 02:27:21,760 site, 667 02:27:21,760 --> 02:27:26,170 contracted staffing agency, providing supervision 668 02:27:26,170 --> 02:27:31,400 , PSW, all of the services and amenities that 669 02:27:31,400 --> 02:27:34,950 have been articulated, daytime transportation 670 02:27:34,950 --> 02:27:38,070 services to appointments, scheduled 671 02:27:38,070 --> 02:27:39,200 transportation 672 02:27:39,200 --> 02:27:42,080 to appointments, custodial and maintenance 673 02:27:42,080 --> 02:27:45,480 services, meal service operations, and consumable 674 02:27:45,480 --> 02:27:50,030 supplies, cups, cutlery, things like that. Food 675 02:27:50,030 --> 02:27:53,230 services are included in that cost. So 676 02:27:53,230 --> 02:27:56,460 the provision of daily meals in addition to 677 02:27:56,460 --> 02:28:00,650 snacks so that folks meet their caloric intake. 678 02:28:00,650 --> 02:28:04,180 We also have the necessary packaging and delivery 679 02:28:04,180 --> 02:28:06,580 of those meals. And then a large portion 680 02:28:06,580 --> 02:28:09,440 of the operating cost is also the rental of the 681 02:28:09,440 --> 02:28:11,870 trailer so that people have a washroom 682 02:28:11,870 --> 02:28:14,420 in a shower to access as well as the communal 683 02:28:14,420 --> 02:28:14,880 spaces. 684 02:28:14,880 --> 02:28:18,010 So rental of the support trailers, the 685 02:28:18,010 --> 02:28:20,430 maintenance materials and operational supplies 686 02:28:20,430 --> 02:28:20,720 that go 687 02:28:20,720 --> 02:28:23,840 into running a brand new city facility that 688 02:28:23,840 --> 02:28:26,290 opened up in about 70 days. 689 02:28:26,290 --> 02:28:28,720 And then of course through the seasonal operating 690 02:28:28,720 --> 02:28:30,630 costs you have snow removal and garbage 691 02:28:30,630 --> 02:28:31,510 collection 692 02:28:31,510 --> 02:28:33,390 and things like that. 693 02:28:33,390 --> 02:28:36,440 Thank you for that. 694 02:28:36,440 --> 02:28:38,890 And the intent is it's like a long term stay at 695 02:28:38,890 --> 02:28:41,130 these micro modular sites or is this more 696 02:28:41,130 --> 02:28:43,280 like a short term kind of stabilization state 697 02:28:43,280 --> 02:28:46,940 because I understand that most or if not all of 698 02:28:46,940 --> 02:28:50,080 the individuals who are staying there are were 699 02:28:50,080 --> 02:28:53,070 previously not with housing. Is that correct? 700 02:28:53,070 --> 02:28:56,610 Mr. Dickens, go ahead. Thank you. Worshiping, yes 701 02:28:56,610 --> 02:28:59,340 , as is indicated in the SPPC report, 702 02:28:59,340 --> 02:29:02,540 every individual that is now benefiting from the 703 02:29:02,540 --> 02:29:06,110 services at that site was previously living 704 02:29:06,110 --> 02:29:08,440 unsheltered. Experiencing direct either street 705 02:29:08,440 --> 02:29:10,570 level unsheltered homelessness or encampment, 706 02:29:11,360 --> 02:29:14,150 homelessness. All of those folks have come there. 707 02:29:14,150 --> 02:29:16,920 The intent was, as per the direction, 708 02:29:16,920 --> 02:29:19,770 come up with a plan to mobilize a brand new city 709 02:29:19,770 --> 02:29:22,600 facility with 60 sleep cabins in 60 days. 710 02:29:22,600 --> 02:29:28,410 So the cost is the cost for, and we hear it too, 711 02:29:28,410 --> 02:29:30,620 that everybody can build these things cheaper, 712 02:29:30,620 --> 02:29:33,390 but nobody was, and that, you know, services can 713 02:29:33,390 --> 02:29:35,300 be found that are better or different, 714 02:29:35,300 --> 02:29:38,260 but they weren't available. So we are in the 715 02:29:38,260 --> 02:29:40,520 reality we're in, and I think it's important for 716 02:29:40,520 --> 02:29:43,290 for the public to know that, that in order to 717 02:29:43,290 --> 02:29:45,440 move at the pace that we moved under the 718 02:29:45,440 --> 02:29:48,420 direction that we were given, you have to make 719 02:29:48,420 --> 02:29:51,200 trade-offs in terms of what is available 720 02:29:51,200 --> 02:29:53,340 and what that cost is. 721 02:29:53,340 --> 02:29:55,670 The intent of this space was to open it quickly, 722 02:29:55,670 --> 02:29:57,590 give people in off the streets and keep them 723 02:29:57,590 --> 02:30:00,450 alive, which we have done to this point. 724 02:30:00,450 --> 02:30:03,090 In fact, there are already a number of 725 02:30:03,090 --> 02:30:06,640 individuals willing to leave this site and move 726 02:30:06,640 --> 02:30:07,600 into housing. 727 02:30:07,600 --> 02:30:12,890 expect to potentially moving in by weeks and go 728 02:30:12,890 --> 02:30:14,940 ahead thank you so I guess you 729 02:30:14,940 --> 02:30:16,560 know like the cost is the cost and you have to 730 02:30:16,560 --> 02:30:17,890 have these trade-offs and I guess 731 02:30:17,890 --> 02:30:19,800 there is you know the social cost the human 732 02:30:19,800 --> 02:30:21,120 capital costs whether it's 733 02:30:21,120 --> 02:30:23,030 individuals who are without shelter or 734 02:30:23,030 --> 02:30:25,740 neighborhoods around them I guess going 735 02:30:25,740 --> 02:30:27,490 pivoting to that just focusing on that I guess 736 02:30:27,490 --> 02:30:29,730 the financial costs though I did 737 02:30:29,730 --> 02:30:32,060 see from the last evaluation report that the cost 738 02:30:32,060 --> 02:30:33,720 of homelessness unsheltered 739 02:30:33,720 --> 02:30:35,720 individuals is around 70 to a hundred thousand 740 02:30:35,720 --> 02:30:36,990 dollars a year which would come 741 02:30:36,990 --> 02:30:39,200 out to about $8,300 a year. 742 02:30:39,200 --> 02:30:40,200 Is that correct? 743 02:30:40,200 --> 02:30:42,090 And if we were to compare the two costs, whether 744 02:30:42,090 --> 02:30:45,770 it's $8,300-ish per year for individuals who 745 02:30:45,770 --> 02:30:48,070 are outside on the street financially, and that's 746 02:30:48,070 --> 02:30:49,440 only on the financial side, to the 747 02:30:49,440 --> 02:30:52,440 4,200 in the micromodular side, I do see 748 02:30:52,440 --> 02:30:55,370 financial costs benefit there, it costs the 749 02:30:55,370 --> 02:30:56,360 city half. 750 02:30:56,360 --> 02:30:59,940 And I'm not even speaking about the social cost 751 02:30:59,940 --> 02:31:02,730 when it comes to individuals out on the 752 02:31:02,730 --> 02:31:03,720 street themselves. 753 02:31:03,720 --> 02:31:05,840 if staff could just kind of point that out with 754 02:31:05,840 --> 02:31:07,310 that evaluation report for how 755 02:31:07,310 --> 02:31:09,570 much it does cost the municipality and the 756 02:31:09,570 --> 02:31:11,280 provincial government and the 757 02:31:11,280 --> 02:31:13,030 federal government. I guess all the taxpayers 758 02:31:13,030 --> 02:31:14,590 together how much it costs for 759 02:31:14,590 --> 02:31:17,430 one individual being out on the street per year 760 02:31:17,430 --> 02:31:22,480 and per month. Go ahead Mr. 761 02:31:22,480 --> 02:31:24,900 Dickens. Through your worship whether having that 762 02:31:24,900 --> 02:31:26,570 data handy but it does ring 763 02:31:26,570 --> 02:31:28,370 about that that would be correct. There are 764 02:31:28,370 --> 02:31:29,870 significant costs of folks living 765 02:31:29,870 --> 02:31:32,430 on sheltered both on the municipal system and the 766 02:31:32,430 --> 02:31:34,280 provincial justice police and 767 02:31:34,280 --> 02:31:37,500 and healthcare systems as well. 768 02:31:37,500 --> 02:31:38,330 - Go ahead. 769 02:31:38,330 --> 02:31:39,870 So I think these are fair questions to be asking 770 02:31:39,870 --> 02:31:42,520 by the counselor of the costs and everything. 771 02:31:42,520 --> 02:31:44,540 I would say that it's not just housing. 772 02:31:44,540 --> 02:31:47,050 There's extra things that are involved 773 02:31:47,050 --> 02:31:48,950 with the micro modular sites. 774 02:31:48,950 --> 02:31:51,730 The cost when it comes to individuals right on 775 02:31:51,730 --> 02:31:52,100 the street, 776 02:31:52,100 --> 02:31:53,530 what they go through emotionally 777 02:31:53,530 --> 02:31:56,090 and without any housing or any stability is a big 778 02:31:56,090 --> 02:31:56,800 cost. 779 02:31:56,800 --> 02:31:59,010 The cost of neighborhoods and families 780 02:31:59,010 --> 02:32:01,290 who you have individuals in encampments in, 781 02:32:01,290 --> 02:32:02,820 there's a cost there too. 782 02:32:02,820 --> 02:32:05,330 but when you were to, and those costs will be 783 02:32:05,330 --> 02:32:05,770 relieved 784 02:32:05,770 --> 02:32:08,360 if individuals are housed with the micromodular 785 02:32:08,360 --> 02:32:08,720 sites, 786 02:32:08,720 --> 02:32:11,110 having those available, that relieves those costs 787 02:32:11,110 --> 02:32:11,210 . 788 02:32:11,110 --> 02:32:12,940 But if you were to look at the purely financial 789 02:32:12,940 --> 02:32:13,900 cost of it, 790 02:32:13,900 --> 02:32:18,160 $100,000 per year, or $8,300-ish per month per 791 02:32:18,160 --> 02:32:18,820 individual 792 02:32:18,820 --> 02:32:22,870 living on house to $4,200 in a micromodular site, 793 02:32:22,870 --> 02:32:30,270 I think there's an efficiency there for costs. 794 02:32:30,270 --> 02:32:33,170 - Okay, other speakers, go ahead, Councillor Prib 795 02:32:33,170 --> 02:32:33,490 ble. 796 02:32:33,490 --> 02:32:34,410 I think you'll be very brief, 797 02:32:34,410 --> 02:32:35,680 but I'm gonna make some comments. 798 02:32:35,680 --> 02:32:38,710 And yes, I will certainly, we all would like 799 02:32:38,710 --> 02:32:39,740 lower expenses, 800 02:32:39,740 --> 02:32:42,070 and I certainly want to look at the being more 801 02:32:42,070 --> 02:32:42,290 effective 802 02:32:42,290 --> 02:32:45,350 and efficient at this facility. 803 02:32:45,350 --> 02:32:47,740 Having said that, if I look at the cost, 804 02:32:47,740 --> 02:32:49,330 what is currently now and the services 805 02:32:49,330 --> 02:32:51,280 that we are providing compared to, again, 806 02:32:51,280 --> 02:32:54,340 what was already said, there are other costs 807 02:32:54,340 --> 02:32:56,140 on the street encampments, and also in the 808 02:32:56,140 --> 02:32:56,610 hospital. 809 02:32:56,610 --> 02:32:59,520 There's actually much lower than that. 810 02:32:59,520 --> 02:33:01,320 This is actually very similar services at 811 02:33:01,320 --> 02:33:03,190 hospital provides. 812 02:33:03,190 --> 02:33:05,070 I'm very happy to hear that there are certain 813 02:33:05,070 --> 02:33:05,390 people 814 02:33:05,390 --> 02:33:08,620 I already ready to move on and I think that was 815 02:33:08,620 --> 02:33:11,460 our main purpose of this facility for us not to 816 02:33:11,460 --> 02:33:12,130 have say 817 02:33:12,130 --> 02:33:15,120 Let's say the 60 plus individuals there, but to 818 02:33:15,120 --> 02:33:17,670 keep rotating get them stabilized the stabilizer 819 02:33:17,670 --> 02:33:19,270 stabilization cost some money 820 02:33:19,270 --> 02:33:20,100 Thank you 821 02:33:20,100 --> 02:33:22,440 I'm please let's stay on track of us this making 822 02:33:22,440 --> 02:33:26,130 sure people remove them on to move them on for 823 02:33:26,130 --> 02:33:28,670 Better improvement of like point one point two to 824 02:33:28,670 --> 02:33:30,830 keep looking at efficiencies effectiveness 825 02:33:30,830 --> 02:33:33,610 Absolutely, but thank you for this project. I 826 02:33:33,610 --> 02:33:34,640 really so far 827 02:33:34,640 --> 02:33:37,540 I know it's at the beginning or first stages, 828 02:33:37,540 --> 02:33:39,290 but I think it's a very positive initiative. 829 02:33:39,290 --> 02:33:41,770 Thank you. 830 02:33:41,770 --> 02:33:46,040 - And I will certainly vote to accept this report 831 02:33:46,040 --> 02:33:46,390 . 832 02:33:46,390 --> 02:33:48,070 - Thank you, I have myself next on the list. 833 02:33:48,070 --> 02:33:51,300 I'll turn the chair over to Councillor Lehman. 834 02:33:51,300 --> 02:33:54,240 - Thank you, and I'll go to the mayor. 835 02:33:54,240 --> 02:33:58,160 - Thank you, so I was gonna ask a question Mr. 836 02:33:58,160 --> 02:33:58,440 Dickens, 837 02:33:58,440 --> 02:34:00,250 but he actually answered it in response 838 02:34:00,250 --> 02:34:02,810 to Councillor Ferrer's questions, 839 02:34:02,810 --> 02:34:05,310 and that was one of the things we talked about 840 02:34:05,310 --> 02:34:05,810 early on 841 02:34:05,810 --> 02:34:08,260 was making this a pathway to housing. 842 02:34:08,260 --> 02:34:11,290 I'm very excited to hear that two people are, you 843 02:34:11,290 --> 02:34:11,390 know, 844 02:34:11,290 --> 02:34:14,260 after only a few months of operation, 845 02:34:14,260 --> 02:34:16,150 not only moving into the micromodular site, 846 02:34:16,150 --> 02:34:17,780 but finding the right type of housing for them 847 02:34:17,780 --> 02:34:20,560 and potentially, you know, this week moving on to 848 02:34:20,560 --> 02:34:21,200 housing. 849 02:34:21,200 --> 02:34:22,680 You know, flow through on these sites is pretty 850 02:34:22,680 --> 02:34:23,070 important 851 02:34:23,070 --> 02:34:25,970 because it gives us the capacity to move people 852 02:34:25,970 --> 02:34:28,230 from the streets into proper housing 853 02:34:28,230 --> 02:34:30,080 where they can be successful. 854 02:34:30,080 --> 02:34:33,020 You know, I think we should be conscious 855 02:34:33,020 --> 02:34:35,310 of the costs of the things we do, right? 856 02:34:35,310 --> 02:34:37,660 Taking action municipally does cost dollars 857 02:34:37,660 --> 02:34:39,980 and taking action particular within the space 858 02:34:39,980 --> 02:34:43,440 of serving vulnerable individuals does require a 859 02:34:43,440 --> 02:34:44,790 cost to it. 860 02:34:44,790 --> 02:34:47,380 The micromodular site is a unique shelter option 861 02:34:47,380 --> 02:34:50,040 that has a number of components to it. 862 02:34:50,040 --> 02:34:54,370 It's a site that serves people much in the other 863 02:34:54,370 --> 02:34:54,570 ways 864 02:34:54,570 --> 02:34:55,990 that bringing people off the streets in the 865 02:34:55,990 --> 02:34:56,910 shelter does. 866 02:34:56,910 --> 02:34:59,170 We've got lots of data, lots of data, 867 02:34:59,170 --> 02:35:00,510 not just here in the city, but across the 868 02:35:00,510 --> 02:35:00,830 province 869 02:35:00,830 --> 02:35:02,550 to show that when you actually get people off the 870 02:35:02,550 --> 02:35:03,200 streets 871 02:35:03,200 --> 02:35:05,980 and with supports, with shelter, with space 872 02:35:05,980 --> 02:35:06,220 around them, 873 02:35:06,220 --> 02:35:07,670 with access to services, with people 874 02:35:07,670 --> 02:35:09,590 are gonna come out with connections to housing 875 02:35:09,590 --> 02:35:10,260 services. 876 02:35:10,260 --> 02:35:13,040 We take pressure off of lots of things, lots of 877 02:35:13,040 --> 02:35:13,240 areas, 878 02:35:13,240 --> 02:35:16,400 the cost, residents' money, whether they're 879 02:35:16,400 --> 02:35:16,670 paying it 880 02:35:16,670 --> 02:35:18,440 through their parental taxes or their federal 881 02:35:18,440 --> 02:35:18,720 taxes 882 02:35:18,720 --> 02:35:20,020 or their municipal taxes. 883 02:35:20,020 --> 02:35:22,400 We know that emergency room visits go down. 884 02:35:22,400 --> 02:35:25,060 An emergency room visit is $1,400 a night. 885 02:35:25,060 --> 02:35:26,830 It doesn't take long for someone accessing 886 02:35:26,830 --> 02:35:30,030 emergency room services to start to become very 887 02:35:30,030 --> 02:35:30,710 costly, 888 02:35:30,710 --> 02:35:33,460 a very costly, provincial cost in the system. 889 02:35:33,460 --> 02:35:34,890 Inpatient stays go down. 890 02:35:34,890 --> 02:35:36,760 land ambulance transfers go down. 891 02:35:36,760 --> 02:35:38,830 Police interactions go down. 892 02:35:38,830 --> 02:35:40,500 CIR interactions can go down 893 02:35:40,500 --> 02:35:43,490 when you provide people with spaces. 894 02:35:43,490 --> 02:35:45,310 Business impacts are minimized 895 02:35:45,310 --> 02:35:49,210 when we have 67 people in housing, 70 people 896 02:35:49,210 --> 02:35:49,840 potentially. 897 02:35:49,840 --> 02:35:55,150 There's impacts from the public, 898 02:35:55,150 --> 02:35:57,010 encampments in public parks, encampments in 899 02:35:57,010 --> 02:35:58,450 public spaces. 900 02:35:58,450 --> 02:36:00,230 Bringing people into those spaces 901 02:36:00,230 --> 02:36:02,730 actually creates relief in a variety of different 902 02:36:02,730 --> 02:36:03,010 ways 903 02:36:03,010 --> 02:36:03,840 for the public. 904 02:36:03,840 --> 02:36:05,110 So yes, there is a cost to it, 905 02:36:05,110 --> 02:36:05,940 but there's a benefit to it. 906 02:36:05,940 --> 02:36:09,860 Most importantly, there's a human cost 907 02:36:09,860 --> 02:36:13,070 to not providing the service that we're providing 908 02:36:13,070 --> 02:36:13,250 , right? 909 02:36:13,250 --> 02:36:15,660 When we actually bring people from the streets, 910 02:36:15,660 --> 02:36:17,240 particularly in the colder months of winter, 911 02:36:17,240 --> 02:36:20,000 where every night is a decision on where can I 912 02:36:20,000 --> 02:36:20,670 find 913 02:36:20,670 --> 02:36:22,500 a warm place to stay? 914 02:36:22,500 --> 02:36:24,600 And sometimes that's through warming centers, 915 02:36:24,600 --> 02:36:27,540 which have a cost to a two, or other options, 916 02:36:27,540 --> 02:36:29,010 or maybe no options. 917 02:36:29,010 --> 02:36:31,360 When we bring them into a space that is a pathway 918 02:36:31,360 --> 02:36:32,670 to housing, 919 02:36:32,670 --> 02:36:35,660 they get dignity, they get safety, they get 920 02:36:35,660 --> 02:36:36,360 survival, 921 02:36:36,360 --> 02:36:38,050 they get well-being. 922 02:36:38,050 --> 02:36:39,510 And when you stabilize an individual, 923 02:36:39,510 --> 02:36:41,440 they're at a different point in their life 924 02:36:41,440 --> 02:36:44,550 where they can move on to other places in housing 925 02:36:44,550 --> 02:36:46,350 that are much less costly than being on the 926 02:36:46,350 --> 02:36:47,460 street accessing 927 02:36:47,460 --> 02:36:49,380 a large variety of services. 928 02:36:49,380 --> 02:36:51,800 It doesn't mean that one shelter system 929 02:36:51,800 --> 02:36:53,630 like the micromotor's shelter site 930 02:36:53,630 --> 02:36:55,610 is going to solve the entire problem. 931 02:36:55,610 --> 02:36:57,500 But it certainly helps for those individuals who 932 02:36:57,500 --> 02:36:57,760 are in it 933 02:36:57,760 --> 02:36:59,190 and it helps for all the people 934 02:36:59,190 --> 02:37:00,600 who would have been otherwise serving those 935 02:37:00,600 --> 02:37:01,180 individuals 936 02:37:01,180 --> 02:37:02,920 out in the community in a different way. 937 02:37:02,920 --> 02:37:07,610 So what I love for this to be part of a system 938 02:37:07,610 --> 02:37:09,530 across the province where provincial knowledge 939 02:37:09,530 --> 02:37:10,680 put towards it for sure. 940 02:37:10,680 --> 02:37:12,990 And maybe we will build something here 941 02:37:12,990 --> 02:37:14,740 with the best practices of others 942 02:37:14,740 --> 02:37:17,080 that may be picked up by another level of 943 02:37:17,080 --> 02:37:17,330 government 944 02:37:17,330 --> 02:37:19,090 to be funded in the future in some way. 945 02:37:19,090 --> 02:37:21,880 We may build a model much like we did with the 946 02:37:21,880 --> 02:37:22,240 hub system 947 02:37:22,240 --> 02:37:24,590 that evolved into the hard hub system 948 02:37:24,590 --> 02:37:27,060 across the province of which I just met 949 02:37:27,060 --> 02:37:29,650 with my OB/CM colleagues, the Minister of Health, 950 02:37:29,650 --> 02:37:31,640 who talked about the early successes 951 02:37:31,640 --> 02:37:34,080 that they're seeing in the hard hubs across the 952 02:37:34,080 --> 02:37:34,610 province. 953 02:37:34,610 --> 02:37:36,830 We might do something that inspires other action 954 02:37:36,830 --> 02:37:39,600 in other communities or action across the 955 02:37:39,600 --> 02:37:40,090 province. 956 02:37:40,090 --> 02:37:43,630 So, I think that there is important work being 957 02:37:43,630 --> 02:37:44,010 done here. 958 02:37:44,010 --> 02:37:46,060 I think our staff have done exactly what we've 959 02:37:46,060 --> 02:37:47,070 asked them to do. 960 02:37:47,070 --> 02:37:50,190 They've done it quickly and they've done it with 961 02:37:50,190 --> 02:37:50,890 professionalism 962 02:37:50,890 --> 02:37:53,000 and expertise and I think they brought us back 963 02:37:53,000 --> 02:37:54,560 the reports and information and if Council needs 964 02:37:54,560 --> 02:37:55,140 more reports 965 02:37:55,140 --> 02:37:58,050 or information, we have every ability to ask for 966 02:37:58,050 --> 02:37:58,250 that 967 02:37:58,250 --> 02:38:00,350 moving forward and I think, again, 968 02:38:00,350 --> 02:38:03,640 we're in the early stages here still. 969 02:38:03,640 --> 02:38:06,230 I think it's right, we're only just evolving the 970 02:38:06,230 --> 02:38:06,670 cost. 971 02:38:06,670 --> 02:38:09,120 We also have other people stepping up and saying, 972 02:38:09,120 --> 02:38:10,380 I'd like to help too. 973 02:38:10,380 --> 02:38:12,380 Whether it's the donations that Mr. Green talked 974 02:38:12,380 --> 02:38:12,870 about, 975 02:38:12,870 --> 02:38:15,860 I know I mentioned Columbia actually donated some 976 02:38:15,860 --> 02:38:16,230 jackets 977 02:38:16,230 --> 02:38:17,250 to the individuals living there. 978 02:38:17,250 --> 02:38:19,560 We've got other groups saying, how can we help? 979 02:38:19,560 --> 02:38:20,400 Can we donate? 980 02:38:20,400 --> 02:38:21,470 Can we support in some way? 981 02:38:21,470 --> 02:38:23,410 And that can also defray some of the operating 982 02:38:23,410 --> 02:38:23,660 costs 983 02:38:23,660 --> 02:38:25,060 'cause what I hear from the public 984 02:38:25,060 --> 02:38:26,850 and members of the public and businesses is 985 02:38:26,850 --> 02:38:28,570 we wanna step up and help too. 986 02:38:28,570 --> 02:38:30,880 What role could we play in interacting with our 987 02:38:30,880 --> 02:38:31,050 staff 988 02:38:31,050 --> 02:38:33,360 gives them the opportunity to support something 989 02:38:33,360 --> 02:38:33,690 that's great. 990 02:38:33,690 --> 02:38:34,980 And I just wanna-- - 30 seconds. 991 02:38:34,980 --> 02:38:35,940 - 30 seconds, I just wanna say 992 02:38:35,940 --> 02:38:39,220 something really brief. I know Chris Moss from 993 02:38:39,220 --> 02:38:40,830 London Carris is in the gallery tonight. I 994 02:38:40,830 --> 02:38:43,440 want to say through the presiding officer, thank 995 02:38:43,440 --> 02:38:46,400 you for being an early critic and providing 996 02:38:46,400 --> 02:38:47,940 some feedback on the micro modular site that we 997 02:38:47,940 --> 02:38:49,340 were able to incorporate and then coming 998 02:38:49,340 --> 02:38:51,290 back and saying we feel this is serving the 999 02:38:51,290 --> 02:38:53,680 people who we helped very well and I appreciate 1000 02:38:53,680 --> 02:38:55,660 you writing the letter in your organization, 1001 02:38:55,660 --> 02:38:57,560 writing the letter to recognize the success 1002 02:38:57,560 --> 02:39:00,040 of our micro modular site. Early critic, but very 1003 02:39:00,040 --> 02:39:01,400 happy with the way it's going. Thank 1004 02:39:01,400 --> 02:39:03,850 you for doing that. 1005 02:39:03,850 --> 02:39:07,120 Okay, I'll return the chair to your mayor. 1006 02:39:07,120 --> 02:39:08,490 Okay, I look for other speakers on this 1007 02:39:08,490 --> 02:39:12,610 particular item. 1008 02:39:12,610 --> 02:39:15,230 Okay, seeing none, then we'll open this for 1009 02:39:15,230 --> 02:39:23,360 voting. 1010 02:39:23,360 --> 02:39:24,160 - Opposed in the vote. 1011 02:39:24,160 --> 02:39:27,230 Motion carries, 12 to one. 1012 02:39:27,230 --> 02:39:28,330 - Councilor Robin. 1013 02:39:28,330 --> 02:39:31,070 - Thank you and through you I've asked Councilor 1014 02:39:31,070 --> 02:39:31,340 Perble 1015 02:39:31,340 --> 02:39:35,700 to present the next report since I voted against. 1016 02:39:35,700 --> 02:39:36,580 - Councilor Perble. 1017 02:39:36,580 --> 02:39:37,770 - Thank you and through the chair, 1018 02:39:37,770 --> 02:39:40,090 I would like to present the 2.2 Housing Acceler 1019 02:39:40,090 --> 02:39:40,470 ator Fund 1020 02:39:40,470 --> 02:39:42,210 and I just wanna let you know that during the PAC 1021 02:39:42,210 --> 02:39:42,840 committee, 1022 02:39:42,840 --> 02:39:45,570 there were two parts, part A, 1023 02:39:45,570 --> 02:39:51,000 which was specific initiatives for the current 1024 02:39:51,000 --> 02:39:51,120 program, 1025 02:39:51,120 --> 02:39:54,620 and that one was passed nine to four, 1026 02:39:54,620 --> 02:39:57,590 and part P was administration to report back 1027 02:39:57,590 --> 02:39:58,980 with future initiatives, 1028 02:39:58,980 --> 02:40:02,060 and that part was passed 13-0, so it was 1029 02:40:02,060 --> 02:40:03,120 unanimous. 1030 02:40:03,120 --> 02:40:05,790 So I would like to present this point, 2.2, 1031 02:40:05,790 --> 02:40:12,430 housing accelerator fund. 1032 02:40:12,430 --> 02:40:14,900 - Yes, and just one second counselor 1033 02:40:14,900 --> 02:40:17,310 because there was a memo circulated from our 1034 02:40:17,310 --> 02:40:17,560 staff 1035 02:40:17,560 --> 02:40:19,880 about a by-law that requires an amendment to this 1036 02:40:19,880 --> 02:40:20,020 piece, 1037 02:40:20,020 --> 02:40:22,320 before we get into maybe dividing things up 1038 02:40:22,320 --> 02:40:23,190 or doing anything different. 1039 02:40:23,190 --> 02:40:24,420 I'd like to take care of that. 1040 02:40:24,420 --> 02:40:42,230 So just give me one sec. 1041 02:40:42,230 --> 02:40:44,170 Okay, so just so colleagues in the public are 1042 02:40:44,170 --> 02:40:44,400 aware 1043 02:40:44,400 --> 02:40:45,860 of the amendment we're gonna make. 1044 02:40:45,860 --> 02:40:47,550 In the original motion, Mr. Mathers, 1045 02:40:47,550 --> 02:40:49,310 that we're bringing forward a by-law. 1046 02:40:49,310 --> 02:40:50,910 It's gonna be this by-law to do this. 1047 02:40:50,910 --> 02:40:52,560 Actually, two by-laws were brought forward. 1048 02:40:52,560 --> 02:40:54,650 So we just have to amend the motion 1049 02:40:54,650 --> 02:40:56,940 to update it to reflect what's actually being 1050 02:40:56,940 --> 02:40:57,500 voted on tonight. 1051 02:40:57,500 --> 02:41:00,130 So that's what the motion before us is. 1052 02:41:00,130 --> 02:41:01,980 I, Councilor Pribble, if you're willing to move 1053 02:41:01,980 --> 02:41:02,860 that. 1054 02:41:02,860 --> 02:41:03,660 - I'll move it. 1055 02:41:03,660 --> 02:41:05,720 - You can do that while you're presenting. 1056 02:41:05,720 --> 02:41:06,810 - And I certainly will move that. 1057 02:41:06,810 --> 02:41:07,620 - Thank you. 1058 02:41:07,620 --> 02:41:10,300 to just get on the floor. And that's going to 1059 02:41:10,300 --> 02:41:12,720 come up in the e-scribe. And I'm just going to 1060 02:41:12,720 --> 02:41:13,340 read it so 1061 02:41:13,340 --> 02:41:16,530 people can actually know what it says. It's that 1062 02:41:16,530 --> 02:41:18,830 the motion be amended to add a new part C that 1063 02:41:18,830 --> 02:41:18,990 reads 1064 02:41:18,990 --> 02:41:21,750 as follows. C, the attached proposed by-law be 1065 02:41:21,750 --> 02:41:24,770 introduced at the Municipal Council meeting on 1066 02:41:24,770 --> 02:41:30,280 April 28, 2026, to amend by-law number CP 1545-41 1067 02:41:30,280 --> 02:41:33,410 being a by-law to establish financial incentives 1068 02:41:33,410 --> 02:41:33,510 for 1069 02:41:33,500 --> 02:41:36,490 for the affordable housing, community improvement 1070 02:41:36,490 --> 02:41:36,590 , 1071 02:41:36,510 --> 02:41:41,070 project area to add sections 11 to 13. 1072 02:41:41,070 --> 02:41:45,220 So those pieces are added into that bylaw. 1073 02:41:45,220 --> 02:41:48,980 Okay, any discussion on that amendment? 1074 02:41:48,980 --> 02:42:09,290 Okay, we'll open that for voting. 1075 02:42:09,290 --> 02:42:17,570 - Opposing the vote, motion carries 13 to zero. 1076 02:42:17,570 --> 02:42:20,620 - Okay, so now we have the as amended motion 1077 02:42:20,620 --> 02:42:25,270 have councilor Pribble present that. 1078 02:42:25,270 --> 02:42:26,370 It needs a second or so. 1079 02:42:26,370 --> 02:42:28,620 - I'll move it. 1080 02:42:28,620 --> 02:42:29,730 - Okay, now we can have discussion 1081 02:42:29,730 --> 02:42:31,580 on this as amended motion. 1082 02:42:31,580 --> 02:42:37,880 I'll look to speakers. 1083 02:42:37,880 --> 02:42:42,920 Seeing none, we'll open that for voting. 1084 02:42:42,920 --> 02:42:58,550 - Opposed in the vote. 1085 02:42:58,550 --> 02:43:01,350 Motion carries 11 to two. 1086 02:43:01,350 --> 02:43:04,770 - Okay, Councillor Progall. 1087 02:43:04,770 --> 02:43:06,380 Thank you for that. 1088 02:43:06,380 --> 02:43:07,960 And I would like to return to Chair Councillor 1089 02:43:07,960 --> 02:43:08,760 Ramen, 1090 02:43:08,760 --> 02:43:09,660 the Chair of the Committee. 1091 02:43:09,660 --> 02:43:10,620 Thank you. 1092 02:43:10,620 --> 02:43:11,440 - Well, I have the Chair, 1093 02:43:11,440 --> 02:43:13,050 but she can continue to present the report 1094 02:43:13,050 --> 02:43:16,370 so you can relieve and Councillor Ramen 1095 02:43:16,370 --> 02:43:17,420 as the Vice Chair of the Committee 1096 02:43:17,420 --> 02:43:19,270 will present the further components of the report 1097 02:43:19,270 --> 02:43:19,800 . 1098 02:43:19,800 --> 02:43:21,940 - Thank you and through you, 1099 02:43:21,940 --> 02:43:24,820 I will put on the floor item eight, 4.2, 1100 02:43:24,820 --> 02:43:26,760 the London Transit, Rapid Transit, 1101 02:43:26,760 --> 02:43:29,110 Operational Readiness Review. 1102 02:43:29,110 --> 02:43:30,410 - Okay, that is on the floor. 1103 02:43:30,410 --> 02:43:32,590 I'll look to speakers to this item. 1104 02:43:32,590 --> 02:43:37,480 go ahead, Councillor Van Mierbergen. 1105 02:43:37,480 --> 02:43:39,860 - Thank you, Mayor, if you could call B 1106 02:43:39,860 --> 02:43:44,070 separately. 1107 02:43:44,070 --> 02:43:49,420 - So B, section B, Councillor, B. 1108 02:43:49,420 --> 02:43:56,260 Okay, yeah, we can for sure do that. 1109 02:43:56,260 --> 02:43:57,220 All right, but is there any debate 1110 02:43:57,220 --> 02:44:00,810 or discussion on the overall item? 1111 02:44:00,810 --> 02:44:02,760 Councillor Hopkins, go ahead. 1112 02:44:02,760 --> 02:44:04,000 - Yeah, thank you, Your Worship. 1113 02:44:04,000 --> 02:44:06,560 I just wanted to make a comment. 1114 02:44:06,560 --> 02:44:10,350 This is on 4.2, but I know we're receiving three 1115 02:44:10,350 --> 02:44:11,230 items. 1116 02:44:11,230 --> 02:44:15,570 And I'm really excited about the transit, 1117 02:44:15,570 --> 02:44:18,050 rapid transit operational readiness 1118 02:44:18,050 --> 02:44:20,840 as we go forward, it's been a number of years. 1119 02:44:20,840 --> 02:44:25,830 I know we are directing LTC to come back to us 1120 02:44:25,830 --> 02:44:30,540 with a report at the end of Q4. 1121 02:44:30,540 --> 02:44:32,100 I just wanna make a comment. 1122 02:44:32,100 --> 02:44:35,250 I know we may not be here as a council 1123 02:44:35,250 --> 02:44:36,850 when that report comes back, 1124 02:44:36,850 --> 02:44:39,560 but I would encourage LTC to even give us 1125 02:44:39,560 --> 02:44:42,430 a bit of a progress report to this council. 1126 02:44:42,430 --> 02:44:47,880 So very supportive of this going forward. 1127 02:44:47,880 --> 02:44:48,770 - Okay. 1128 02:44:48,770 --> 02:44:49,550 Thank you. 1129 02:44:49,550 --> 02:44:54,590 Any others? 1130 02:44:54,590 --> 02:44:55,860 Councilor Trossa. 1131 02:44:55,860 --> 02:44:57,990 - Thank you very much, thank you to the mayor. 1132 02:44:57,990 --> 02:45:00,280 I thought long and hard about putting forward 1133 02:45:00,280 --> 02:45:03,000 a formal amendment on this. 1134 02:45:03,000 --> 02:45:05,050 And I decided not to at the last minute, 1135 02:45:05,050 --> 02:45:08,770 just in the interest of removing some complexity 1136 02:45:08,770 --> 02:45:11,930 from our deliberations here. 1137 02:45:11,930 --> 02:45:13,890 I am a little concerned that this, 1138 02:45:13,890 --> 02:45:17,130 if this doesn't come back until the end of Q4, 1139 02:45:17,130 --> 02:45:19,010 it could be a new council, 1140 02:45:19,010 --> 02:45:22,450 possibly Q4 is the end of December. 1141 02:45:22,450 --> 02:45:24,740 - Yeah, a new council, perhaps at one of their 1142 02:45:24,740 --> 02:45:26,020 first meetings. 1143 02:45:26,020 --> 02:45:28,280 And I'm just wondering, short of making an 1144 02:45:28,280 --> 02:45:28,940 amendment, 1145 02:45:28,940 --> 02:45:33,370 is there some way we could nudge this a little 1146 02:45:33,370 --> 02:45:33,520 bit 1147 02:45:33,520 --> 02:45:37,590 to get it back before this council before we go? 1148 02:45:37,590 --> 02:45:40,490 Because I just am a little uncomfortable 1149 02:45:40,490 --> 02:45:42,450 with the length of time this is sitting out there 1150 02:45:42,450 --> 02:45:44,880 . 1151 02:45:44,880 --> 02:45:46,210 - Well, I can go to Mr. Chair. 1152 02:45:46,210 --> 02:45:48,360 I'll just note that it says no later than Q4 1153 02:45:48,360 --> 02:45:51,870 and transmission certainly could endeavor 1154 02:45:51,870 --> 02:45:54,300 to try to do it faster, but it kind of be up to 1155 02:45:54,300 --> 02:45:54,540 them 1156 02:45:54,540 --> 02:45:56,250 at this point, basically the way the motion is 1157 02:45:56,250 --> 02:45:56,570 worded, 1158 02:45:56,570 --> 02:45:59,250 that I'll go to this chair. 1159 02:45:59,250 --> 02:46:00,090 - Thank you, Your Worship. 1160 02:46:00,090 --> 02:46:02,560 And you have stolen my answer, but agreed. 1161 02:46:02,560 --> 02:46:03,950 So this will now go to the London Transit 1162 02:46:03,950 --> 02:46:04,430 Commission 1163 02:46:04,430 --> 02:46:06,760 to further their receipt and direction to their 1164 02:46:06,760 --> 02:46:07,170 staff. 1165 02:46:07,170 --> 02:46:09,160 That would be an opportunity to have a discussion 1166 02:46:09,160 --> 02:46:11,830 about whether those timelines could be flexible. 1167 02:46:11,830 --> 02:46:12,980 The timelines we have in place 1168 02:46:12,980 --> 02:46:14,250 are the ones that we've discussed with our 1169 02:46:14,250 --> 02:46:14,650 colleagues, 1170 02:46:14,650 --> 02:46:16,600 but certainly between council and its commission, 1171 02:46:16,600 --> 02:46:19,340 there may be that opportunity. 1172 02:46:19,340 --> 02:46:21,080 - Okay, so what I'm hearing then through the 1173 02:46:21,080 --> 02:46:21,440 chair is 1174 02:46:21,440 --> 02:46:23,760 I would have the opportunity as a member of the L 1175 02:46:23,760 --> 02:46:24,410 TC board 1176 02:46:24,410 --> 02:46:27,260 to encourage them to come forward with a report 1177 02:46:27,260 --> 02:46:27,700 earlier 1178 02:46:27,700 --> 02:46:30,160 than the end of Q4. 1179 02:46:30,160 --> 02:46:32,600 - So yes, I think that's exactly what Ms. Sharon 1180 02:46:32,600 --> 02:46:33,470 and I said. 1181 02:46:33,470 --> 02:46:36,560 Council's request is no later than. 1182 02:46:36,560 --> 02:46:38,520 There's nothing stopping somebody from doing 1183 02:46:38,520 --> 02:46:39,210 something faster 1184 02:46:39,210 --> 02:46:41,690 given it's obviously a discussion, debate, 1185 02:46:41,690 --> 02:46:42,360 resources, 1186 02:46:42,360 --> 02:46:43,980 but that doesn't need to be discussed here. 1187 02:46:43,980 --> 02:46:46,770 That can be discussed at the transit commission. 1188 02:46:46,770 --> 02:46:48,560 - That's right, and I appreciate that. 1189 02:46:48,560 --> 02:46:50,340 And in light of the fact that it would be 1190 02:46:50,340 --> 02:46:52,450 a request to the transit commission staff, 1191 02:46:52,450 --> 02:46:54,590 I think I'll not take that matter up here, 1192 02:46:54,590 --> 02:46:56,100 but I will take it up later with the transit 1193 02:46:56,100 --> 02:46:56,850 commission. 1194 02:46:56,850 --> 02:47:00,390 The only thing that still concerns me 1195 02:47:00,390 --> 02:47:02,740 is that we don't have a reflection 1196 02:47:02,740 --> 02:47:06,470 of the receipt of the Stantec report in our 1197 02:47:06,470 --> 02:47:06,990 minutes. 1198 02:47:06,990 --> 02:47:09,300 And I just wanna make sure that members of the 1199 02:47:09,300 --> 02:47:09,950 public 1200 02:47:09,950 --> 02:47:15,060 can access the Stantec report through our minutes 1201 02:47:15,060 --> 02:47:15,160 or agendas. 1202 02:47:15,060 --> 02:47:19,650 Is there some way that we could, 1203 02:47:19,650 --> 02:47:21,320 without having to make a motion, 1204 02:47:21,320 --> 02:47:23,620 just to agree that we're gonna put that online 1205 02:47:23,620 --> 02:47:25,450 with respect to these materials 1206 02:47:25,450 --> 02:47:28,790 what I need to make a motion saying it's further 1207 02:47:28,790 --> 02:47:30,260 noted that we received the 1208 02:47:30,260 --> 02:47:32,580 Stantec report and that be reflected in the 1209 02:47:32,580 --> 02:47:36,100 minutes. Go ahead, Mr. Chair. Thank 1210 02:47:36,100 --> 02:47:38,490 you, Your Worship. As per the discussion that I 1211 02:47:38,490 --> 02:47:40,170 see or at just TPC, we are looking 1212 02:47:40,170 --> 02:47:41,670 in a way to get that online and as soon as we 1213 02:47:41,670 --> 02:47:42,860 have that link available, we will 1214 02:47:42,860 --> 02:47:46,260 share it with all of Council. Thank you. I 1215 02:47:46,260 --> 02:47:47,750 appreciate that. I will not be making a 1216 02:47:47,750 --> 02:47:50,340 motion then. I just want to strongly recommend to 1217 02:47:50,340 --> 02:47:51,600 the public that I feel that 1218 02:47:51,600 --> 02:47:54,810 the Stantec report was presented in a way of 1219 02:47:54,810 --> 02:47:56,400 different people like to take 1220 02:47:56,400 --> 02:47:58,520 information in different ways. 1221 02:47:58,520 --> 02:48:00,850 And the Stantec report, I thought, was very 1222 02:48:00,850 --> 02:48:03,810 strong in terms of its use of graphics, use 1223 02:48:03,810 --> 02:48:06,590 of maps, use of charts, and I think anybody who's 1224 02:48:06,590 --> 02:48:08,980 following this issue, I would strongly 1225 02:48:08,980 --> 02:48:12,640 recommend that you look at the Stantec report. 1226 02:48:12,640 --> 02:48:16,080 With that, I'd like to thank Ms. Shere and her 1227 02:48:16,080 --> 02:48:19,410 staff and Stantec for the excellent report. 1228 02:48:19,410 --> 02:48:23,690 I think that there are some items that need to be 1229 02:48:23,690 --> 02:48:27,540 dealt with in somewhat of a -- perhaps 1230 02:48:27,540 --> 02:48:29,880 I think they're more urgent than what's in this 1231 02:48:29,880 --> 02:48:31,740 motion, but I'm going to just show 1232 02:48:31,740 --> 02:48:36,050 a little patience now, but these issues about how 1233 02:48:36,050 --> 02:48:39,940 people are going to get one to the system 1234 02:48:39,940 --> 02:48:44,190 through back doors, bear boxes, and other matters 1235 02:48:44,190 --> 02:48:46,830 I think are very compelling. 1236 02:48:46,830 --> 02:48:48,610 So I'm just going to leave it like this. 1237 02:48:48,610 --> 02:48:50,580 - Please read the stand deck, 1238 02:48:50,580 --> 02:48:55,600 and thank you for indulging my questions. 1239 02:48:55,600 --> 02:48:58,830 - Great, any other speakers to this? 1240 02:48:58,830 --> 02:49:03,750 Okay, seeing none, so that's, 1241 02:49:03,750 --> 02:49:04,880 we're gonna do this separate 1242 02:49:04,880 --> 02:49:06,720 as per Councillor Van Mereberg and his request. 1243 02:49:06,720 --> 02:49:09,070 So part A will be first, part A. 1244 02:49:09,070 --> 02:49:20,800 So we'll open that for voting. 1245 02:49:20,800 --> 02:49:26,400 - Closing the vote, motion carries 13 to zero. 1246 02:49:26,400 --> 02:49:33,660 - And next, we'll do part B. 1247 02:49:33,660 --> 02:49:49,040 Okay, we're gonna open that now. 1248 02:49:49,040 --> 02:49:53,410 - Closing the vote, motion carries 10 to three. 1249 02:49:53,410 --> 02:50:01,400 - Thank you, that concludes my report. 1250 02:50:01,400 --> 02:50:03,810 - Okay, thanks, that concludes the SPPC report. 1251 02:50:03,810 --> 02:50:05,230 As Councillor Oman just indicated, 1252 02:50:05,230 --> 02:50:06,440 We're on to the seventh report of the 1253 02:50:06,440 --> 02:50:07,480 infrastructure 1254 02:50:07,480 --> 02:50:09,430 and corporate services committee. 1255 02:50:09,430 --> 02:50:12,050 I will go to Councillor McAllister 1256 02:50:12,050 --> 02:50:14,270 to present that report. 1257 02:50:14,270 --> 02:50:15,770 - Thank you and through the mayor, 1258 02:50:15,770 --> 02:50:17,540 pleased to do the seventh report 1259 02:50:17,540 --> 02:50:19,090 of the infrastructure and corporate services 1260 02:50:19,090 --> 02:50:19,470 committee. 1261 02:50:19,470 --> 02:50:22,370 I have a request to pull item 10, 1262 02:50:22,370 --> 02:50:26,000 but I will put one through nine and 11 to 13 on 1263 02:50:26,000 --> 02:50:32,430 the floor. 1264 02:50:32,430 --> 02:50:33,740 - Okay, so 10 is pulled. 1265 02:50:33,740 --> 02:50:36,540 Was anybody like anything else separated from 1266 02:50:36,540 --> 02:50:36,820 this? 1267 02:50:36,820 --> 02:50:38,080 Councillor Stevenson, go ahead. 1268 02:50:38,080 --> 02:50:38,910 - Yeah, apologies. 1269 02:50:38,910 --> 02:50:40,880 I meant to ask for 12 as well. 1270 02:50:40,880 --> 02:50:42,480 - Okay, we can do 12 separate too. 1271 02:50:42,480 --> 02:50:45,150 So 10 and 12 are separate so far. 1272 02:50:45,150 --> 02:50:48,350 Other items, anyone? 1273 02:50:48,350 --> 02:50:51,050 Okay, go ahead, Councilor McAllister. 1274 02:50:51,050 --> 02:50:52,820 - Okay, with that in mind then, 1275 02:50:52,820 --> 02:51:00,770 one through nine, 11 and 13 of those. 1276 02:51:00,770 --> 02:51:03,660 - Okay, the chairs put those items on the floor, 1277 02:51:03,660 --> 02:51:05,850 any discussion on those items that are within it? 1278 02:51:05,850 --> 02:51:09,100 Go ahead, Councilor Cuddy. 1279 02:51:09,100 --> 02:51:10,340 - Thank you, Your Worship and through you. 1280 02:51:10,340 --> 02:51:14,170 I wasn't able to attend committee that day, 1281 02:51:14,170 --> 02:51:16,590 but I want to speak to six, 1282 02:51:16,590 --> 02:51:18,280 the Clayley Road Infrastructure Project, 1283 02:51:18,280 --> 02:51:19,680 and I want to thank the committee, 1284 02:51:19,680 --> 02:51:21,370 I want to thank staff for the work they've done 1285 02:51:21,370 --> 02:51:22,060 on this. 1286 02:51:22,060 --> 02:51:24,730 Tulalee Road is one of the fastest drawing areas 1287 02:51:24,730 --> 02:51:27,010 in the east end of the city. 1288 02:51:27,010 --> 02:51:29,910 Great deal of development going on out there. 1289 02:51:29,910 --> 02:51:32,640 We had a fatality a few years ago. 1290 02:51:32,640 --> 02:51:34,800 Young boy at a bicycle. 1291 02:51:34,800 --> 02:51:37,980 High speeds, narrow road, but we're rectifying 1292 02:51:37,980 --> 02:51:38,170 that 1293 02:51:38,170 --> 02:51:40,960 with the infrastructure work. 1294 02:51:40,960 --> 02:51:45,280 A word of maybe caution to staff. 1295 02:51:45,280 --> 02:51:50,200 Webster is now our will be the through way. 1296 02:51:50,200 --> 02:51:52,270 And I see Ms. Chair shaking your head, yes. 1297 02:51:52,270 --> 02:51:53,390 And we're all aware of this. 1298 02:51:53,390 --> 02:51:54,210 I've made it aware. 1299 02:51:54,210 --> 02:51:56,780 I've had a lot of residents speak to me about 1300 02:51:56,780 --> 02:51:57,360 this. 1301 02:51:57,360 --> 02:52:00,180 I will come back to you again, as you know, 1302 02:52:00,180 --> 02:52:02,860 time and time again, please. 1303 02:52:02,860 --> 02:52:07,130 Webster Street is a rural road in the city. 1304 02:52:07,130 --> 02:52:09,790 It has no street lights and has no sidewalks. 1305 02:52:09,790 --> 02:52:12,480 And it is narrow and people drive fast through 1306 02:52:12,480 --> 02:52:12,750 there. 1307 02:52:12,750 --> 02:52:16,170 So I plead you, please take care of my residents 1308 02:52:16,170 --> 02:52:18,260 on Webster Street during the construction. 1309 02:52:18,260 --> 02:52:19,820 And again, thank you staff for the work you've 1310 02:52:19,820 --> 02:52:19,960 done. 1311 02:52:19,960 --> 02:52:23,830 Thank you, committee for the work you've done it. 1312 02:52:23,830 --> 02:52:26,090 - Okay, Councillor Hopkins, go ahead. 1313 02:52:26,090 --> 02:52:27,210 - Yeah, thank you, Your Worship. 1314 02:52:27,210 --> 02:52:30,720 And I'd like to ask my thanks through you 1315 02:52:30,720 --> 02:52:35,700 to the committee on, let me see, number five, 2.4 1316 02:52:35,700 --> 02:52:35,800 , 1317 02:52:35,700 --> 02:52:39,730 which was the contract amendment detailed design 1318 02:52:39,730 --> 02:52:40,960 for Southdale Road. 1319 02:52:40,960 --> 02:52:43,950 Thank you for allowing those additional 1320 02:52:43,950 --> 02:52:44,710 improvements 1321 02:52:44,710 --> 02:52:49,060 to complete Southdale Road West improvements. 1322 02:52:49,060 --> 02:52:52,130 And I also want to make a comment on number 11, 1323 02:52:52,130 --> 02:52:56,390 which is by Ontario Act Bill 72 municipal 1324 02:52:56,390 --> 02:52:57,610 implications. 1325 02:52:57,610 --> 02:53:01,630 I wanna thank staff for including Amos report 1326 02:53:01,630 --> 02:53:03,700 on building Ontario's economy 1327 02:53:03,700 --> 02:53:05,660 with flexible municipal procurement. 1328 02:53:05,660 --> 02:53:08,490 There's a lot of work that goes into that. 1329 02:53:08,490 --> 02:53:11,590 Thank you to staff for sharing that with us. 1330 02:53:11,590 --> 02:53:15,020 I have such respect for Amos staff and the work 1331 02:53:15,020 --> 02:53:15,780 that they do 1332 02:53:15,780 --> 02:53:18,720 and on behalf of not only the city of London, 1333 02:53:18,720 --> 02:53:23,430 but all municipalities, so thank you. 1334 02:53:23,430 --> 02:53:25,700 - Thank you, any other speakers to this set of 1335 02:53:25,700 --> 02:53:27,410 motions? 1336 02:53:27,410 --> 02:53:30,500 Go ahead, Councilor Trossan. 1337 02:53:30,500 --> 02:53:31,770 - I'm also not gonna make a motion, 1338 02:53:31,770 --> 02:53:36,030 but I just wanna highlight and back up 1339 02:53:36,030 --> 02:53:39,150 and share the concern that Councilor Cuddy raised 1340 02:53:39,150 --> 02:53:43,200 with respect to the traffic on Webster Street. 1341 02:53:43,200 --> 02:53:45,540 Not only is Webster Street all of the things he 1342 02:53:45,540 --> 02:53:45,770 said, 1343 02:53:45,770 --> 02:53:47,910 but there are also parts of Webster Street, 1344 02:53:47,910 --> 02:53:50,120 as we know from our other agendas 1345 02:53:50,120 --> 02:53:52,460 that are very dense, 1346 02:53:52,460 --> 02:53:55,350 where there are a lot of cars coming in and out. 1347 02:53:55,350 --> 02:53:57,900 And I really, I'm going to be watching this. 1348 02:53:57,900 --> 02:54:02,460 I really want to encourage traffic staff, 1349 02:54:02,460 --> 02:54:05,520 which I know you have a lot of discretion here. 1350 02:54:05,520 --> 02:54:07,500 But I really want to encourage traffic staff 1351 02:54:07,500 --> 02:54:10,150 to take this very, very seriously. 1352 02:54:10,150 --> 02:54:12,130 Because I think we could be creating 1353 02:54:12,130 --> 02:54:16,690 some very dangerous and perilous impacts here. 1354 02:54:16,690 --> 02:54:18,660 I'm not going to raise today the question 1355 02:54:18,660 --> 02:54:22,810 of where the cars end up going if they're 1356 02:54:22,810 --> 02:54:25,120 on their way to downtown from these northern 1357 02:54:25,120 --> 02:54:25,780 developments. 1358 02:54:25,780 --> 02:54:29,340 that's sort of a broader discussion. 1359 02:54:29,340 --> 02:54:33,470 But I just wanted to support and highlight 1360 02:54:33,470 --> 02:54:38,130 what Councillor Cudi said, thank you. 1361 02:54:38,130 --> 02:54:40,740 - Okay, any other discussion? 1362 02:54:40,740 --> 02:54:42,190 Okay, seeing none, we're gonna open this for 1363 02:54:42,190 --> 02:54:53,300 voting. 1364 02:54:53,300 --> 02:54:56,630 - Opposed in the vote, motion carries 13 to zero. 1365 02:54:56,630 --> 02:54:58,030 - Go ahead, Councillor. 1366 02:54:58,030 --> 02:55:01,890 - Okay, I'll put item 10 on the floor. 1367 02:55:01,890 --> 02:55:03,030 - All right, item 10 is on the floor. 1368 02:55:03,030 --> 02:55:04,510 I'll look for any speakers on item 10. 1369 02:55:04,510 --> 02:55:06,190 Go ahead, Councillor Stevenson. 1370 02:55:06,190 --> 02:55:08,180 - Thank you, I just wanted to quickly explain 1371 02:55:08,180 --> 02:55:08,490 again 1372 02:55:08,490 --> 02:55:10,480 my no vote and reiterate again, 1373 02:55:10,480 --> 02:55:12,540 it's not a criticism of the staff 1374 02:55:12,540 --> 02:55:14,010 or the report that was written, 1375 02:55:14,010 --> 02:55:16,760 it's really just me trying to find an opportunity 1376 02:55:16,760 --> 02:55:20,000 to share some of my concerns. 1377 02:55:20,000 --> 02:55:22,970 And I understand that they may not even relate 1378 02:55:22,970 --> 02:55:25,920 exactly to this, but this is my opportunity 1379 02:55:25,920 --> 02:55:27,830 where I have people reaching out to me 1380 02:55:27,830 --> 02:55:30,500 around the procurement about some issues. 1381 02:55:30,500 --> 02:55:33,400 I heard some concerns about last minute changes, 1382 02:55:33,400 --> 02:55:35,670 about an inability to enter info, 1383 02:55:35,670 --> 02:55:38,850 that the lowest bidder wasn't awarded 1384 02:55:38,850 --> 02:55:42,710 and there wasn't a satisfactory for them 1385 02:55:42,710 --> 02:55:43,590 opportunity 1386 02:55:43,590 --> 02:55:45,400 to go through that process. 1387 02:55:45,400 --> 02:55:47,630 I also heard from a local charity 1388 02:55:47,630 --> 02:55:50,710 that lost a long time contract to a first time R 1389 02:55:50,710 --> 02:55:51,210 FP. 1390 02:55:51,210 --> 02:55:53,670 Again, I get this isn't a criticism of the report 1391 02:55:53,670 --> 02:55:54,550 before us. 1392 02:55:54,550 --> 02:55:56,980 It's just my opportunity to put on the record 1393 02:55:56,980 --> 02:56:01,000 that I have some concerns around the procurement 1394 02:56:01,000 --> 02:56:01,790 as it is 1395 02:56:01,790 --> 02:56:03,660 and also some of the things that are gonna be 1396 02:56:03,660 --> 02:56:05,010 coming forward 1397 02:56:05,010 --> 02:56:07,080 with the new procurement policy that we have. 1398 02:56:07,080 --> 02:56:09,580 So I just, as I said, just wanted to be clear on 1399 02:56:09,580 --> 02:56:10,370 why, 1400 02:56:10,370 --> 02:56:12,160 what my no vote represents. 1401 02:56:12,160 --> 02:56:15,040 And it's not a criticism of the report 1402 02:56:15,040 --> 02:56:17,830 that the staff wrote here particularly, 1403 02:56:17,830 --> 02:56:20,130 just expressing some of my concerns through this 1404 02:56:20,130 --> 02:56:23,030 vote. 1405 02:56:23,030 --> 02:56:25,940 - Okay, any of the speakers on this one? 1406 02:56:25,940 --> 02:56:39,700 Seeing none, we'll open that for voting. 1407 02:56:39,700 --> 02:56:43,940 - Closing the vote, motion carries 12 to one. 1408 02:56:43,940 --> 02:56:47,390 - Councillor McAllister, to put item 12 on the 1409 02:56:47,390 --> 02:56:48,350 floor. 1410 02:56:48,350 --> 02:56:49,700 Okay, item 12 is on the floor. 1411 02:56:49,700 --> 02:56:52,170 I'll look first, speakers on item 12. 1412 02:56:52,170 --> 02:56:53,790 Go ahead Councillor Stevenson. 1413 02:56:53,790 --> 02:56:54,630 - Thank you. 1414 02:56:54,630 --> 02:56:56,610 This one I spoke more about at committee. 1415 02:56:56,610 --> 02:56:58,470 I just wanna summarize again here. 1416 02:56:58,470 --> 02:57:00,880 I'm voting no to receiving this report 1417 02:57:00,880 --> 02:57:01,520 specifically 1418 02:57:01,520 --> 02:57:04,870 because I just have a different idea 1419 02:57:04,870 --> 02:57:07,860 of the level of transparency that I expect as a 1420 02:57:07,860 --> 02:57:08,620 counselor 1421 02:57:08,620 --> 02:57:10,170 and that the people that I represent 1422 02:57:10,170 --> 02:57:12,280 are telling me that they want to see as well. 1423 02:57:12,280 --> 02:57:14,990 We have a $1.4 billion budget 1424 02:57:14,990 --> 02:57:17,460 and we are being provided one line 1425 02:57:17,460 --> 02:57:19,730 with a net tax amount to compare. 1426 02:57:19,730 --> 02:57:22,240 I understand that I've spent some time going back 1427 02:57:22,240 --> 02:57:25,030 through the open data and some of the plans 1428 02:57:25,030 --> 02:57:26,620 that are available online. 1429 02:57:26,620 --> 02:57:29,630 I just believe that first of all the level of 1430 02:57:29,630 --> 02:57:29,820 data 1431 02:57:29,820 --> 02:57:32,280 that it was available in 2015. 1432 02:57:32,280 --> 02:57:33,890 I can't find there. 1433 02:57:33,890 --> 02:57:38,680 And second, in the plans, 1434 02:57:38,680 --> 02:57:40,430 I just think it should be right there 1435 02:57:40,430 --> 02:57:42,300 for Council on the public record, 1436 02:57:42,300 --> 02:57:43,370 easy for the public, 1437 02:57:43,370 --> 02:57:45,790 not necessarily a link for them to go research 1438 02:57:45,790 --> 02:57:48,490 or try to figure out how to use an Excel file, 1439 02:57:48,490 --> 02:57:50,080 but it should just be right there 1440 02:57:50,080 --> 02:57:55,040 even as limited as the eight or so lines per area 1441 02:57:55,040 --> 02:57:56,620 that we had in 2015. 1442 02:57:56,620 --> 02:57:58,400 I think it's interesting to see 1443 02:57:58,400 --> 02:58:02,860 the decrease in publicly, easily available data 1444 02:58:02,860 --> 02:58:06,310 included in the budgets over the last 10 years. 1445 02:58:06,310 --> 02:58:10,100 And so I really feel strongly about this. 1446 02:58:10,100 --> 02:58:15,340 And so that's why I'm gonna be voting no here. 1447 02:58:15,340 --> 02:58:17,990 - Okay, any other speakers? 1448 02:58:17,990 --> 02:58:19,620 Go ahead, Councilor Pribble. 1449 02:58:19,620 --> 02:58:21,100 - Thank you, I would like to make a comment 1450 02:58:21,100 --> 02:58:24,000 because part of this report is a recommendation 1451 02:58:24,000 --> 02:58:26,850 from RBC Place, our conventional center as a 1452 02:58:26,850 --> 02:58:27,670 surplus. 1453 02:58:27,670 --> 02:58:30,460 I really wanna highlight the last year at the RBC 1454 02:58:30,460 --> 02:58:30,890 Place 1455 02:58:30,890 --> 02:58:33,120 and the entire kudos to the entire team. 1456 02:58:33,120 --> 02:58:34,960 Under the challenging situation 1457 02:58:34,960 --> 02:58:36,670 that we have economic situation, 1458 02:58:36,670 --> 02:58:39,000 this organization was able to deliver their 1459 02:58:39,000 --> 02:58:40,050 record revenues 1460 02:58:40,050 --> 02:58:43,150 throughout the history of this facility. 1461 02:58:43,150 --> 02:58:44,540 So I would like to comment on that. 1462 02:58:44,540 --> 02:58:46,990 Thank you. 1463 02:58:46,990 --> 02:58:48,410 - Thank you, Councillor. 1464 02:58:48,410 --> 02:58:50,090 Any other speakers? 1465 02:58:50,090 --> 02:59:06,390 Okay, we'll open item 12 for voting. 1466 02:59:06,390 --> 02:59:12,460 - Opposed in the vote, motion carries 12 to one. 1467 02:59:12,460 --> 02:59:14,530 - Okay, Councillor McAllister. 1468 02:59:14,530 --> 02:59:16,750 - Thank you, that concludes the seventh report 1469 02:59:16,750 --> 02:59:18,610 of the infrastructure and corporate services. 1470 02:59:18,610 --> 02:59:20,940 And I would now like to move on to the eighth 1471 02:59:20,940 --> 02:59:21,270 report 1472 02:59:21,270 --> 02:59:23,580 of the special infrastructure and corporate 1473 02:59:23,580 --> 02:59:23,760 services 1474 02:59:23,760 --> 02:59:25,780 committee meeting we help. 1475 02:59:25,780 --> 02:59:28,440 - Yes, from all the way back to yesterday. 1476 02:59:28,440 --> 02:59:30,590 Go ahead and present that, Councillor. 1477 02:59:30,590 --> 02:59:31,850 - Okay, we just have the two items, 1478 02:59:31,850 --> 02:59:33,260 so I will move item one and two, 1479 02:59:33,260 --> 02:59:34,980 and I have not been made aware of any pull 1480 02:59:34,980 --> 02:59:36,830 requests. 1481 02:59:36,830 --> 02:59:38,330 - Okay, Councillors, put those on. 1482 02:59:38,330 --> 02:59:39,850 I don't, well, we're not gonna put in the dooms 1483 02:59:39,850 --> 02:59:40,100 effort 1484 02:59:40,100 --> 02:59:42,030 'cause it's disclosures and one item, 1485 02:59:42,030 --> 02:59:47,020 but I'll look for any discussion on this one. 1486 02:59:47,020 --> 02:59:47,830 I'm gonna say somewhere, 1487 02:59:47,830 --> 02:59:50,460 and so I'll turn it over to Councillor Layman to 1488 02:59:50,460 --> 02:59:52,130 present. 1489 02:59:52,130 --> 02:59:54,310 - Thank you, I'll go to the mayor. 1490 02:59:54,310 --> 02:59:55,140 - Thanks, I'll be brief. 1491 02:59:55,140 --> 02:59:57,450 I didn't attend the committee meeting yesterday 1492 02:59:57,450 --> 02:59:57,800 on this. 1493 02:59:57,800 --> 03:00:01,170 I had other matters, but I think it was a five or 1494 03:00:01,170 --> 03:00:01,490 six minute 1495 03:00:01,490 --> 03:00:04,790 meeting, which is, I think, great in that very 1496 03:00:04,790 --> 03:00:05,200 thorough, 1497 03:00:05,200 --> 03:00:06,190 very detailed report. 1498 03:00:06,190 --> 03:00:07,850 But I think it's important to continue 1499 03:00:07,850 --> 03:00:11,210 to recognize that the city does have borrowing 1500 03:00:11,210 --> 03:00:11,900 needs. 1501 03:00:11,900 --> 03:00:15,580 We do have to issue debt to build significant 1502 03:00:15,580 --> 03:00:16,010 infrastructure 1503 03:00:16,010 --> 03:00:17,610 projects in the city. 1504 03:00:17,610 --> 03:00:22,270 And we do so at really good rates over the time 1505 03:00:22,270 --> 03:00:25,910 that we borrow at because we have a AAA credit 1506 03:00:25,910 --> 03:00:26,310 rating. 1507 03:00:26,310 --> 03:00:28,690 And these are the moments where, 1508 03:00:28,690 --> 03:00:31,080 I know we talk about its importance, 1509 03:00:31,080 --> 03:00:32,440 but these are the moments where they actually are 1510 03:00:32,440 --> 03:00:32,800 important 1511 03:00:32,800 --> 03:00:35,920 because going out and getting debt that is fully 1512 03:00:35,920 --> 03:00:36,540 subscribed, 1513 03:00:36,540 --> 03:00:38,770 that is competitive, that is at good rates, 1514 03:00:38,770 --> 03:00:41,190 that happens because people know that they have 1515 03:00:41,190 --> 03:00:41,680 confidence 1516 03:00:41,680 --> 03:00:43,790 in the city of London's policies, 1517 03:00:43,790 --> 03:00:46,200 the way that we do financial management of the 1518 03:00:46,200 --> 03:00:46,620 city, 1519 03:00:46,620 --> 03:00:48,490 even though even what we just passed is a council 1520 03:00:48,490 --> 03:00:52,150 where we said with the operating budget 1521 03:00:52,150 --> 03:00:53,470 monitoring report, 1522 03:00:53,470 --> 03:00:56,860 a portion of that money is going towards 1523 03:00:56,860 --> 03:00:58,900 debt avoidance, infrastructure gap, 1524 03:00:58,900 --> 03:01:01,790 and the pieces that I know from the engagements I 1525 03:01:01,790 --> 03:01:02,050 have 1526 03:01:02,050 --> 03:01:04,180 with our credit rating agency, 1527 03:01:04,180 --> 03:01:05,990 the things that they monitor fairly closely 1528 03:01:05,990 --> 03:01:07,390 and that it continues to allow us 1529 03:01:07,390 --> 03:01:09,060 to have a good credit rating, 1530 03:01:09,060 --> 03:01:11,220 which allows us to do what the debentions report 1531 03:01:11,220 --> 03:01:11,330 says 1532 03:01:11,330 --> 03:01:13,290 and that's borrow at a decent rate. 1533 03:01:13,290 --> 03:01:14,920 Borrow at a decent rate on behalf of taxpayers 1534 03:01:14,920 --> 03:01:17,030 where the principal and interest payments 1535 03:01:17,030 --> 03:01:18,770 are manageable over the long horizon. 1536 03:01:18,770 --> 03:01:21,720 Other municipalities have been downgraded 1537 03:01:21,720 --> 03:01:23,270 across the province. 1538 03:01:23,270 --> 03:01:24,990 We are vulnerable, obviously, 1539 03:01:24,990 --> 03:01:27,360 because we are subsidiary to the province 1540 03:01:27,360 --> 03:01:29,520 of the general situation in the province, 1541 03:01:29,520 --> 03:01:31,020 but in respect to above that, 1542 03:01:31,020 --> 03:01:33,210 I think we've done a great job 1543 03:01:33,210 --> 03:01:35,210 sticking to a long-term financial management plan 1544 03:01:35,210 --> 03:01:37,030 that has allowed us to keep that credit rating in 1545 03:01:37,030 --> 03:01:37,320 place, 1546 03:01:37,320 --> 03:01:39,180 which allows us to borrow at the rates that you 1547 03:01:39,180 --> 03:01:39,380 see 1548 03:01:39,380 --> 03:01:41,530 in this report, both this current debt issuance 1549 03:01:41,530 --> 03:01:43,510 as well as the historical rates that you've seen 1550 03:01:43,510 --> 03:01:45,840 across that, which are very competitive in the 1551 03:01:45,840 --> 03:01:49,630 industry. 1552 03:01:49,630 --> 03:01:51,450 - I'll return to chair to you. 1553 03:01:51,450 --> 03:01:54,260 - Okay, anyone else excited to talk about the 1554 03:01:54,260 --> 03:01:56,290 ventures? 1555 03:01:56,290 --> 03:01:57,960 Just me, okay, all right, we'll open that for 1556 03:01:57,960 --> 03:02:07,880 voting. 1557 03:02:07,880 --> 03:02:12,410 - Opposing the vote, motion carries 13 to zero. 1558 03:02:12,410 --> 03:02:14,310 - Okay, and that concludes the eighth report 1559 03:02:14,310 --> 03:02:16,360 and we'll have both my reports, so I'm all done. 1560 03:02:16,360 --> 03:02:17,700 - Thanks, Councillor McAllister, 1561 03:02:17,700 --> 03:02:19,830 appreciate the presentations. 1562 03:02:19,830 --> 03:02:22,590 We'll go on to the sixth report 1563 03:02:22,590 --> 03:02:24,360 of the Planning and Environment Committee, 1564 03:02:24,360 --> 03:02:27,970 and I will go to Councillor Layman. 1565 03:02:27,970 --> 03:02:29,740 Go on, I got just a request. 1566 03:02:29,740 --> 03:02:35,910 - I believe I might have omitted pulling item 11 1567 03:02:35,910 --> 03:02:40,240 - Windermere Road. 1568 03:02:40,240 --> 03:02:42,300 - Yes, you know, Leibn was not pulled. 1569 03:02:42,300 --> 03:02:45,250 We did vote on it, so that would require 1570 03:02:45,250 --> 03:02:46,030 reconsideration 1571 03:02:46,030 --> 03:02:47,950 to do something different with item 11. 1572 03:02:47,950 --> 03:02:50,650 - Well, we haven't voted on the, no, 1573 03:02:50,650 --> 03:02:52,580 we haven't, we're just getting to the report. 1574 03:02:52,580 --> 03:02:54,580 - Oh, oh, and you mean, in the PEC report, 1575 03:02:54,580 --> 03:02:57,000 I thought you meant 11 from the last report. 1576 03:02:57,000 --> 03:02:58,890 - No, I don't need to vote on the debentures, 1577 03:02:58,890 --> 03:02:59,710 that's great. 1578 03:02:59,710 --> 03:03:01,130 - No, okay, well. - Windermere Road. 1579 03:03:01,130 --> 03:03:03,850 - Okay, if you're talking about planning 1580 03:03:03,850 --> 03:03:05,490 an environment committee, we're gonna circulate 1581 03:03:05,490 --> 03:03:07,670 to ask you for that in the second councilor. 1582 03:03:07,670 --> 03:03:09,860 Go ahead, councilor Leibn. 1583 03:03:09,860 --> 03:03:12,180 I just wanna make sure we're okay. 1584 03:03:12,180 --> 03:03:14,140 I'm not gonna do anything, I just wanna make sure 1585 03:03:14,140 --> 03:03:14,240 . 1586 03:03:14,160 --> 03:03:16,450 - Councilor Trossow, can we have your microphone, 1587 03:03:16,450 --> 03:03:17,860 please? 1588 03:03:17,860 --> 03:03:20,380 Thanks. 1589 03:03:20,380 --> 03:03:21,990 - Thank you. 1590 03:03:21,990 --> 03:03:23,780 Please present the sixth report of the Planning 1591 03:03:23,780 --> 03:03:24,130 Environment 1592 03:03:24,130 --> 03:03:27,550 Committee, I've had a couple of requests to pull. 1593 03:03:27,550 --> 03:03:36,640 Some items, item six, item 10, item 11, 1594 03:03:36,640 --> 03:03:45,470 item 13, and item 18. 1595 03:03:45,470 --> 03:03:47,560 - Okay, that sounds like it accounts 1596 03:03:47,560 --> 03:03:48,780 for Councilor Trossow's request, 1597 03:03:48,780 --> 03:03:49,770 so you should be good Councillor. 1598 03:03:49,770 --> 03:03:56,750 So, so far that's six, 10, 11, 13, 13, and 18. 1599 03:03:56,750 --> 03:03:58,140 - Correct. 1600 03:03:58,140 --> 03:03:59,380 - Okay, anybody want anything else dealt with 1601 03:03:59,380 --> 03:04:02,870 separately? 1602 03:04:02,870 --> 03:04:03,880 All right, go ahead, Councilor Layman. 1603 03:04:03,880 --> 03:04:07,350 - So I'll move items one through five, seven, 1604 03:04:07,350 --> 03:04:10,990 eight, and nine, 1605 03:04:10,990 --> 03:04:16,420 12, 14, 15, 16, and 17, and 19. 1606 03:04:16,420 --> 03:04:22,090 - All right, that will be moved by the chair. 1607 03:04:22,090 --> 03:04:24,660 Any discussion on all of those items 1608 03:04:24,660 --> 03:04:39,470 or any of those items, I should say. 1609 03:04:39,470 --> 03:04:53,390 Okay, we're good, so we'll open that for voting. 1610 03:04:53,390 --> 03:04:56,670 closing the vote, motion carries 13 to zero. 1611 03:04:56,670 --> 03:04:58,700 - All right, go ahead, Councillor Layman. 1612 03:04:58,700 --> 03:05:01,910 - Thank you, I'd like to put number six on the 1613 03:05:01,910 --> 03:05:02,640 floor, 1614 03:05:02,640 --> 03:05:05,510 2.3, regarding the deferred loan payments, 1615 03:05:05,510 --> 03:05:09,450 Councillor Stevenson requested that to be pulled. 1616 03:05:09,450 --> 03:05:11,960 - Okay, I'll go to Councillor Stevenson then, 1617 03:05:11,960 --> 03:05:13,920 and I know there's at least one other Councillor 1618 03:05:13,920 --> 03:05:15,630 who wants to talk about this as well, 1619 03:05:15,630 --> 03:05:16,770 so go ahead, Councillor Stevenson. 1620 03:05:16,770 --> 03:05:18,340 - Thank you, yes, I've got an amendment 1621 03:05:18,340 --> 03:05:21,970 that I'd like to put forward, the clerk has it. 1622 03:05:21,970 --> 03:05:23,510 I can read it out. 1623 03:05:23,510 --> 03:05:25,980 - Yes, if you could, that'd be fantastic. 1624 03:05:25,980 --> 03:05:27,900 - That the motion be amended to include a new 1625 03:05:27,900 --> 03:05:28,660 part C 1626 03:05:28,660 --> 03:05:31,850 and revise Part B to read as follows. 1627 03:05:31,850 --> 03:05:34,280 The interest-free deferral of loan repayments 1628 03:05:34,280 --> 03:05:36,430 under the facade improvement loan program 1629 03:05:36,430 --> 03:05:39,140 and the upgrade to building code load program 1630 03:05:39,140 --> 03:05:42,050 be extended for an additional 19th month period 1631 03:05:42,050 --> 03:05:44,280 through March 31st, 2028, 1632 03:05:44,280 --> 03:05:46,620 where the applicant is requested deferral in 1633 03:05:46,620 --> 03:05:46,880 writing 1634 03:05:46,880 --> 03:05:49,550 and all city of London property taxes owing 1635 03:05:49,550 --> 03:05:50,860 are paid in full. 1636 03:05:50,860 --> 03:05:54,570 It being noted that the April 2028 loan repayment 1637 03:05:54,570 --> 03:05:56,970 will proceed as planned. 1638 03:05:56,970 --> 03:05:59,490 and that the civic administration be directed 1639 03:05:59,490 --> 03:06:02,880 to undertake a one-time transfer of a 1.15 1640 03:06:02,880 --> 03:06:03,440 million, 1641 03:06:03,440 --> 03:06:07,740 or of 1.15 million from the economic development 1642 03:06:07,740 --> 03:06:10,550 reserve fund to the CIP reserve fund 1643 03:06:10,550 --> 03:06:13,050 to offset the financial impact of the deferral 1644 03:06:13,050 --> 03:06:14,910 in part B above. 1645 03:06:14,910 --> 03:06:17,220 And I believe I have a seconder in counselor Prib 1646 03:06:17,220 --> 03:06:17,560 ble. 1647 03:06:17,560 --> 03:06:19,020 - Yep, counselor Pribble indicated he would 1648 03:06:19,020 --> 03:06:19,320 second. 1649 03:06:19,320 --> 03:06:20,850 So that's on the floor. 1650 03:06:20,850 --> 03:06:23,580 Would you like to speak to that now? 1651 03:06:23,580 --> 03:06:24,860 - Yeah, I'm happy to speak to that. 1652 03:06:24,860 --> 03:06:28,590 So we started this amendment at planning and 1653 03:06:28,590 --> 03:06:30,700 realized that we had an extra piece that we 1654 03:06:30,700 --> 03:06:33,690 needed to address which was the impact that the 1655 03:06:33,690 --> 03:06:36,190 deferral of the loan payments was going 1656 03:06:36,190 --> 03:06:38,660 to have in the CIP reserve fund. 1657 03:06:38,660 --> 03:06:41,500 Staff let us know that it was going to take it 1658 03:06:41,500 --> 03:06:43,800 too low and that there wasn't going to 1659 03:06:43,800 --> 03:06:46,580 be the money available for new loans. 1660 03:06:46,580 --> 03:06:49,860 So I had committed to coming back to council with 1661 03:06:49,860 --> 03:06:52,700 a cleanup on that and we let it go through 1662 03:06:52,700 --> 03:06:57,610 at planning knowing that it needed an addition 1663 03:06:57,610 --> 03:06:59,320 to this amendment. 1664 03:06:59,320 --> 03:07:01,510 So I appreciated the support at planning 1665 03:07:01,510 --> 03:07:04,750 around providing the businesses in these areas 1666 03:07:04,750 --> 03:07:07,130 and the property owners an extension 1667 03:07:07,130 --> 03:07:09,230 on the deferral of the loan payments. 1668 03:07:09,230 --> 03:07:10,540 So that was really appreciated. 1669 03:07:10,540 --> 03:07:13,980 The fact that the CIP Reserve Fund is going to 1670 03:07:13,980 --> 03:07:15,820 run too low 1671 03:07:15,820 --> 03:07:16,900 gets to be addressed. 1672 03:07:16,900 --> 03:07:19,050 And so staff provided us with two options. 1673 03:07:19,050 --> 03:07:21,840 One was to suspend the loans for the period 1674 03:07:21,840 --> 03:07:24,330 of the extension of the deferral of the payments. 1675 03:07:24,330 --> 03:07:27,320 The other was to take money from the Economic 1676 03:07:27,320 --> 03:07:27,700 Development 1677 03:07:27,700 --> 03:07:28,700 Reserve Fund. 1678 03:07:28,700 --> 03:07:31,330 I really am asking my colleagues support 1679 03:07:31,330 --> 03:07:33,280 that we choose this one, because we 1680 03:07:33,280 --> 03:07:35,600 have strategic goals and commitments 1681 03:07:35,600 --> 03:07:39,380 to business and viability of these neighborhoods. 1682 03:07:39,380 --> 03:07:42,210 That's why we did these programs and these loans. 1683 03:07:42,210 --> 03:07:45,720 And so to suspend the ability for other 1684 03:07:45,720 --> 03:07:46,790 businesses 1685 03:07:46,790 --> 03:07:49,810 and property owners to take out new loans 1686 03:07:49,810 --> 03:07:51,330 just doesn't make sense when you see the 1687 03:07:51,330 --> 03:07:52,410 conditions 1688 03:07:52,410 --> 03:07:54,480 of our core area right now. 1689 03:07:54,480 --> 03:07:58,790 So remembering that it's a deferral of the loan 1690 03:07:58,790 --> 03:07:59,240 payments. 1691 03:07:59,240 --> 03:08:02,190 Eventually these loan payments are gonna come in 1692 03:08:02,190 --> 03:08:04,530 and I see a time in the future when we can put 1693 03:08:04,530 --> 03:08:05,260 that money back 1694 03:08:05,260 --> 03:08:07,740 into the Economic Development Reserve Fund. 1695 03:08:07,740 --> 03:08:10,340 I believe that using this money right now 1696 03:08:10,340 --> 03:08:13,700 helps address the urgent need of the property 1697 03:08:13,700 --> 03:08:14,250 owners 1698 03:08:14,250 --> 03:08:16,720 and continues the commitment that we made to them 1699 03:08:16,720 --> 03:08:18,480 when we approve these loans. 1700 03:08:18,480 --> 03:08:21,080 So it's, although we're taking the money, 1701 03:08:21,080 --> 03:08:22,910 there should be the opportunity to put it back 1702 03:08:22,910 --> 03:08:25,790 at some point once the loan payments are made. 1703 03:08:25,790 --> 03:08:28,620 And if not, I still think this achieves 1704 03:08:28,620 --> 03:08:31,780 an urgent objective and a commitment that we made 1705 03:08:31,780 --> 03:08:34,860 as a council around the strategic plan objectives 1706 03:08:34,860 --> 03:08:35,130 . 1707 03:08:35,130 --> 03:08:38,090 I would really hate to see us suspend the loans. 1708 03:08:38,090 --> 03:08:40,420 We're deferring loan payments because we 1709 03:08:40,420 --> 03:08:40,920 recognize 1710 03:08:40,920 --> 03:08:45,030 the crisis and the deterioration of this area. 1711 03:08:45,030 --> 03:08:47,830 So to, you know, we'd be giving with one hand 1712 03:08:47,830 --> 03:08:49,220 and taking away with the other. 1713 03:08:49,220 --> 03:08:51,780 And I'd really like to see this council show full 1714 03:08:51,780 --> 03:08:52,280 support 1715 03:08:52,280 --> 03:08:54,710 for this area that we believe in its future. 1716 03:08:54,710 --> 03:08:59,080 And we want to invest and provide and allow 1717 03:08:59,080 --> 03:08:59,440 people 1718 03:08:59,440 --> 03:09:02,370 to invest in that area right now 1719 03:09:02,370 --> 03:09:05,950 and not wait for the deferral to end. 1720 03:09:05,950 --> 03:09:07,420 So hopefully that's clear. 1721 03:09:07,420 --> 03:09:11,340 This is taking money from the Act of Reserve Fund 1722 03:09:11,340 --> 03:09:11,440 . 1723 03:09:11,340 --> 03:09:14,460 I understand that, but it's to allow the new 1724 03:09:14,460 --> 03:09:15,150 loans 1725 03:09:15,150 --> 03:09:18,560 to still be approved and applications to be 1726 03:09:18,560 --> 03:09:19,410 received 1727 03:09:19,410 --> 03:09:23,960 over the next 18 months. 1728 03:09:23,960 --> 03:09:26,410 - Okay, I'm gonna look for further speakers on 1729 03:09:26,410 --> 03:09:28,150 that. 1730 03:09:28,150 --> 03:09:29,870 Go ahead, I'm gonna have Councillor Ferra 1731 03:09:29,870 --> 03:09:33,000 and then Councillor Layman. 1732 03:09:33,000 --> 03:09:34,730 - Thank you, Mayor and thanks for the motion. 1733 03:09:34,730 --> 03:09:37,950 I had a similar one that was very similar to this 1734 03:09:37,950 --> 03:09:38,050 . 1735 03:09:37,950 --> 03:09:40,390 It is a different in a little one respect 1736 03:09:40,390 --> 03:09:42,170 and that's for the 1.15 million 1737 03:09:42,170 --> 03:09:45,220 from the Economic Development Reserve Fund. 1738 03:09:45,220 --> 03:09:48,410 The reason I have concerns from drawing from that 1739 03:09:48,410 --> 03:09:48,590 fund 1740 03:09:48,590 --> 03:09:50,100 is because we do have other commitments 1741 03:09:50,100 --> 03:09:51,870 that are gonna be pulling from that fund as well, 1742 03:09:51,870 --> 03:09:54,760 specifically the economic development strategy 1743 03:09:54,760 --> 03:09:57,650 and funding implementations therein 1744 03:09:57,650 --> 03:09:59,450 and the downtown master plan 1745 03:09:59,450 --> 03:10:01,780 and funding actions therein as well. 1746 03:10:01,780 --> 03:10:04,940 So I was wondering if we could just go to either 1747 03:10:04,940 --> 03:10:05,440 finance 1748 03:10:05,440 --> 03:10:07,780 or whoever might be able to speak to this on. 1749 03:10:07,780 --> 03:10:11,200 When those plans come back, 1750 03:10:11,200 --> 03:10:14,450 if we were to be drawing from the Ek Dev Reserve 1751 03:10:14,450 --> 03:10:14,780 Fund, 1752 03:10:14,780 --> 03:10:17,660 we potentially, is it true that we potentially 1753 03:10:17,660 --> 03:10:18,730 might not 1754 03:10:18,730 --> 03:10:21,030 necessarily have enough funding with the final 1755 03:10:21,030 --> 03:10:22,200 ization of those plans coming back, and I 1756 03:10:22,200 --> 03:10:22,440 understand 1757 03:10:22,440 --> 03:10:25,040 those plans are coming in July, I believe. So 1758 03:10:25,040 --> 03:10:28,470 without that information, I'd be a little 1759 03:10:28,470 --> 03:10:30,410 hesitant to be drawing from the Act of Reserve 1760 03:10:30,410 --> 03:10:32,260 Fund, so I just wanted to know if I could get 1761 03:10:32,260 --> 03:10:33,240 any information. 1762 03:10:33,240 --> 03:10:49,510 Go ahead, sorry. I'm working to language. People 1763 03:10:49,510 --> 03:10:52,570 are asking for things. Go ahead. 1764 03:10:52,570 --> 03:10:56,290 Thank you. Through the chair. So, yes, the master 1765 03:10:56,290 --> 03:10:59,140 plan will be coming forward. As I understand 1766 03:10:59,140 --> 03:11:03,970 it. A lot of those costs and funding will be up 1767 03:11:03,970 --> 03:11:06,220 to council to determine how to proceed 1768 03:11:06,220 --> 03:11:09,260 and at what timing. I do suspect to that, 1769 03:11:09,260 --> 03:11:12,620 particularly for the bigger ticket items, 1770 03:11:12,620 --> 03:11:14,950 the ECDAV Reserve Fund will not have a balance 1771 03:11:14,950 --> 03:11:17,230 sufficient enough to support those and that 1772 03:11:17,230 --> 03:11:19,690 they will need to go forward through the next 1773 03:11:19,690 --> 03:11:22,070 multi-year budget. I anticipate a large number 1774 03:11:22,070 --> 03:11:25,070 of those because they will likely have bigger 1775 03:11:25,070 --> 03:11:27,970 ticket potentially items that would need to 1776 03:11:27,970 --> 03:11:30,360 be funded are likely not going to be sufficient 1777 03:11:30,360 --> 03:11:33,110 through the Act to Reserve Fund to fund. 1778 03:11:33,110 --> 03:11:34,310 Mr. Murray is online. 1779 03:11:34,310 --> 03:11:36,260 He can provide what the current balance is 1780 03:11:36,260 --> 03:11:38,530 in the Economic Development Reserve Fund. 1781 03:11:38,530 --> 03:11:41,760 But certainly, for an interim, this would be the 1782 03:11:41,760 --> 03:11:42,800 only source 1783 03:11:42,800 --> 03:11:46,470 if the desire to defer the loan repayments 1784 03:11:46,470 --> 03:11:48,020 at this time would be available 1785 03:11:48,020 --> 03:11:54,380 to allow those loans to continue. 1786 03:11:54,380 --> 03:11:57,770 - Go ahead, Councillor, go ahead, Mr. Murray. 1787 03:11:57,770 --> 03:11:59,010 - Oh, thank you, and through you, 1788 03:11:59,010 --> 03:12:01,360 I will confirm that the current balance 1789 03:12:01,360 --> 03:12:03,230 of the Economic Development to Reserve Fund 1790 03:12:03,230 --> 03:12:06,860 is in the ballpark of approximately $10 million. 1791 03:12:06,860 --> 03:12:09,740 There are some approved commitments out into 1792 03:12:09,740 --> 03:12:10,820 future years, 1793 03:12:10,820 --> 03:12:14,050 but as noted, there is uncertainty as it pertains 1794 03:12:14,050 --> 03:12:16,800 to upcoming plans that may require funding 1795 03:12:16,800 --> 03:12:19,130 through the reserve fund into future years as 1796 03:12:19,130 --> 03:12:19,510 well, 1797 03:12:19,510 --> 03:12:22,710 subject to, of course, the multi-year budget 1798 03:12:22,710 --> 03:12:24,580 process. 1799 03:12:24,580 --> 03:12:25,530 - Councilor Ferrer. 1800 03:12:25,530 --> 03:12:26,360 - Okay, thank you for that. 1801 03:12:26,360 --> 03:12:29,210 So speaking to both the economic development 1802 03:12:29,210 --> 03:12:29,880 strategy 1803 03:12:29,880 --> 03:12:31,580 that we're working on in the downtown plan, 1804 03:12:31,580 --> 03:12:36,210 they're going to be interim items that we would 1805 03:12:36,210 --> 03:12:40,690 be looking to action and those are coming from 1806 03:12:40,690 --> 03:12:40,790 the 1807 03:12:40,750 --> 03:12:43,280 active reserve fund. I understand the plan is not 1808 03:12:43,280 --> 03:12:45,670 finalized yet, but I was wondering if I could get 1809 03:12:45,670 --> 03:12:55,500 any hints. Okay, Mr. May, let's go ahead. Through 1810 03:12:55,500 --> 03:12:58,080 you, Worship, I'll just speak to the downtown 1811 03:12:58,080 --> 03:13:00,860 program. So I do want to just highlight that the 1812 03:13:00,860 --> 03:13:03,330 facade and the upgrade to building code loan 1813 03:13:03,330 --> 03:13:05,830 programs are very important programs that are 1814 03:13:05,830 --> 03:13:08,500 well utilized. If there's a decision to stop 1815 03:13:08,500 --> 03:13:08,650 those 1816 03:13:08,650 --> 03:13:10,980 programs, we may actually have to be going back 1817 03:13:10,980 --> 03:13:13,090 and up making sure we update our downtown 1818 03:13:13,090 --> 03:13:15,410 master plan because those are very important 1819 03:13:15,410 --> 03:13:17,900 programs. So it may be that if you if this 1820 03:13:17,900 --> 03:13:20,220 was removed, we'd be just adding it back in. So I 1821 03:13:20,220 --> 03:13:22,740 don't really see it as a net change from 1822 03:13:22,740 --> 03:13:24,290 the downtown master plan perspective. 1823 03:13:24,290 --> 03:13:31,230 Go ahead. Thank you for that. I did see there 1824 03:13:31,230 --> 03:13:36,310 were some other ways forward that I understood 1825 03:13:36,310 --> 03:13:38,620 that the council spoke to and we did kind of get 1826 03:13:38,620 --> 03:13:40,930 those recommendations to and one of them 1827 03:13:40,930 --> 03:13:45,610 was to pause the implementation of those two CIP 1828 03:13:45,610 --> 03:13:46,040 programs 1829 03:13:46,040 --> 03:13:48,320 in the interim so we don't have to draw 1830 03:13:48,320 --> 03:13:50,420 in the active reserve fund. 1831 03:13:50,420 --> 03:13:52,440 And with the pause like that, 1832 03:13:52,440 --> 03:13:54,770 we would still be providing I guess the financial 1833 03:13:54,770 --> 03:13:55,140 relief 1834 03:13:55,140 --> 03:13:58,500 to those properties that pulled the CIPs, 1835 03:13:58,500 --> 03:13:59,970 but at the same time we would still have the 1836 03:13:59,970 --> 03:14:00,850 ability 1837 03:14:00,850 --> 03:14:03,070 to I guess reverse course in the future 1838 03:14:03,070 --> 03:14:06,400 if we did get deferral requests in writing 1839 03:14:06,400 --> 03:14:09,740 if they were low or if they were high. 1840 03:14:09,740 --> 03:14:12,110 So I do know that there's other options here. 1841 03:14:12,110 --> 03:14:14,280 I'm kind of hesitant to support this. 1842 03:14:14,280 --> 03:14:18,130 I did have another motion that's very similar to 1843 03:14:18,130 --> 03:14:18,480 this, 1844 03:14:18,480 --> 03:14:20,310 but it just wouldn't draw from the Act of Reserve 1845 03:14:20,310 --> 03:14:20,550 Fund, 1846 03:14:20,550 --> 03:14:21,910 'cause that's really what I don't wanna do. 1847 03:14:21,910 --> 03:14:23,140 I don't wanna draw from that fund, 1848 03:14:23,140 --> 03:14:25,370 'cause I wanna keep as much of a balance in there 1849 03:14:25,370 --> 03:14:27,480 as we possibly can for any of the items 1850 03:14:27,480 --> 03:14:29,490 that come out of the downtown plan in the Act of 1851 03:14:29,490 --> 03:14:30,110 Reserve Fund. 1852 03:14:30,110 --> 03:14:32,890 I think not knowing what exactly is gonna come 1853 03:14:32,890 --> 03:14:32,990 out, 1854 03:14:32,980 --> 03:14:35,210 we could be tying our hands moving forward, 1855 03:14:35,210 --> 03:14:36,840 and I worry about that. 1856 03:14:36,840 --> 03:14:40,250 So I would ask to not support this motion 1857 03:14:40,250 --> 03:14:40,990 respectfully. 1858 03:14:40,990 --> 03:14:45,240 I'm right with the Councillor on the direction 1859 03:14:45,240 --> 03:14:46,470 that she's going. 1860 03:14:46,470 --> 03:14:48,460 I would just take a slightly different approach 1861 03:14:48,460 --> 03:14:50,780 that would not be drawing from the Act of Reserve 1862 03:14:50,780 --> 03:14:50,960 Fund. 1863 03:14:50,960 --> 03:14:53,820 So I guess I'll leave my comments there. 1864 03:14:53,820 --> 03:14:57,920 I think a report back would be in order as well. 1865 03:14:57,920 --> 03:15:00,480 But I'll leave it to colleagues to see what you 1866 03:15:00,480 --> 03:15:04,260 have to say. 1867 03:15:04,260 --> 03:15:06,470 - Okay, I looked to other speakers. 1868 03:15:06,470 --> 03:15:08,290 Go ahead, oh yes, Councillor Layman, sorry I had 1869 03:15:08,290 --> 03:15:08,960 you. 1870 03:15:08,960 --> 03:15:10,560 Thank you. 1871 03:15:10,560 --> 03:15:13,340 This is a question through you, to staff, 1872 03:15:13,340 --> 03:15:17,650 when the monies are repaid on this program. 1873 03:15:17,650 --> 03:15:19,470 Does it go into general coffers? 1874 03:15:19,470 --> 03:15:23,300 Or is there a special block that these monies go 1875 03:15:23,300 --> 03:15:24,970 into? 1876 03:15:24,970 --> 03:15:27,010 I'm going to make a comment. 1877 03:15:27,010 --> 03:15:29,660 Go ahead. 1878 03:15:29,660 --> 03:15:30,660 - Thank you, Chair. 1879 03:15:30,660 --> 03:15:33,200 So the reserve funds for the CIP loans, 1880 03:15:33,200 --> 03:15:34,480 essentially have a reserve fund, 1881 03:15:34,480 --> 03:15:36,190 where there's money that goes in. 1882 03:15:36,190 --> 03:15:38,170 So essentially the repayments are funding 1883 03:15:38,170 --> 03:15:40,400 the ability to issue new loans. 1884 03:15:40,400 --> 03:15:42,630 And that is why they're all managed centrally 1885 03:15:42,630 --> 03:15:45,930 together. So as money comes in and the balances 1886 03:15:45,930 --> 03:15:49,420 are, but as the money is repaid, it replenishes 1887 03:15:49,420 --> 03:15:52,250 the balance so that new loans can be issued. So 1888 03:15:52,250 --> 03:15:54,200 all of the money is contained within the 1889 03:15:54,200 --> 03:15:56,650 reserve fund and essentially it's a revolving 1890 03:15:56,650 --> 03:15:59,020 loan fund where the repayments are funding 1891 03:15:59,020 --> 03:16:01,480 what those new. That is why if you stop the repay 1892 03:16:01,480 --> 03:16:03,320 ments, there is no ability to be able 1893 03:16:03,320 --> 03:16:06,660 to issue new loans. Hence why there is a backfill 1894 03:16:06,660 --> 03:16:09,530 to support the repayments so that new loans 1895 03:16:09,530 --> 03:16:15,010 can continue to be issued. 1896 03:16:15,010 --> 03:16:16,730 - And which reserve fund are you speaking? 1897 03:16:16,730 --> 03:16:19,030 Like when you say the loans are coming on a 1898 03:16:19,030 --> 03:16:19,790 reserve fund, 1899 03:16:19,790 --> 03:16:23,960 which fund is that? 1900 03:16:23,960 --> 03:16:24,930 - Thank you through your worship. 1901 03:16:24,930 --> 03:16:29,790 It's the CIP Reserve Fund. 1902 03:16:29,790 --> 03:16:33,690 - Would it be possible to direct the temporary, 1903 03:16:33,690 --> 03:16:36,610 the loans that are the forgiveness that we're 1904 03:16:36,610 --> 03:16:37,080 giving 1905 03:16:37,080 --> 03:16:41,080 of I think it's 1.5 million to have those funds 1906 03:16:41,080 --> 03:16:44,240 being repaid instead of into the CIP, 1907 03:16:44,240 --> 03:16:45,720 but back into the Act Dev Fund 1908 03:16:45,720 --> 03:16:48,610 that we're looking at for this motion proposes 1909 03:16:48,610 --> 03:16:51,380 We're taking money on that fund or that reserve 1910 03:16:51,380 --> 03:16:52,690 fund. 1911 03:16:52,690 --> 03:16:55,780 Would it be possible to direct initial payments 1912 03:16:55,780 --> 03:16:59,770 back into that fund until that's made whole? 1913 03:16:59,770 --> 03:17:02,030 - Go ahead. 1914 03:17:02,030 --> 03:17:03,870 - Thank you through your worship. 1915 03:17:03,870 --> 03:17:06,420 So by doing that, when those repayments 1916 03:17:06,420 --> 03:17:07,980 are redirected elsewhere, 1917 03:17:07,980 --> 03:17:10,010 then there's nothing else going into that reserve 1918 03:17:10,010 --> 03:17:10,210 fund 1919 03:17:10,210 --> 03:17:12,360 to be able to support the issuance 1920 03:17:12,360 --> 03:17:14,000 of new loans at that time. 1921 03:17:14,000 --> 03:17:17,590 So as soon as you stop repayments from going in, 1922 03:17:17,590 --> 03:17:20,000 that's when you will stop the ability to issue 1923 03:17:20,000 --> 03:17:20,500 new loans 1924 03:17:20,500 --> 03:17:23,530 because that's how new loans are funded. 1925 03:17:23,530 --> 03:17:25,920 So consider it a coffee cup when you finish it. 1926 03:17:25,920 --> 03:17:28,200 You're re-pouring, you're filling your cup 1927 03:17:28,200 --> 03:17:29,790 so that you can drink some more. 1928 03:17:29,790 --> 03:17:32,470 It's essentially trying to keep the cup full 1929 03:17:32,470 --> 03:17:34,820 so that we can continue to issue new loans 1930 03:17:34,820 --> 03:17:39,550 when and if they're requested. 1931 03:17:39,550 --> 03:17:40,350 - Go ahead, Councillor. 1932 03:17:40,350 --> 03:17:42,330 - So I appreciate that. 1933 03:17:42,330 --> 03:17:45,080 The originally came out of the SAP fund. 1934 03:17:45,080 --> 03:17:48,460 I guess what I'm saying is we are looking 1935 03:17:48,460 --> 03:17:51,760 at using the ACT DEV fund, taking 1.5 million out 1936 03:17:51,760 --> 03:17:51,990 of there 1937 03:17:51,990 --> 03:17:55,480 if Councilor Ferra referred to the concerns there 1938 03:17:55,480 --> 03:17:55,580 , 1939 03:17:55,480 --> 03:17:59,200 and moving over to make whole what we are losing. 1940 03:17:59,200 --> 03:18:02,390 I'm saying, let's make whole what we are losing, 1941 03:18:02,390 --> 03:18:04,890 but let's not double down. 1942 03:18:04,890 --> 03:18:07,630 Let's take the funds that are repaid of 1.5 1943 03:18:07,630 --> 03:18:09,280 million 1944 03:18:09,280 --> 03:18:11,200 back into the Act Dev Fund. 1945 03:18:11,200 --> 03:18:13,080 And once that's made whole from that, 1946 03:18:13,080 --> 03:18:17,430 then can't continue back to going back 1947 03:18:17,430 --> 03:18:19,670 to where the initial loans were from the CIP. 1948 03:18:19,670 --> 03:18:25,290 CIP doesn't that way contains no effect in the C 1949 03:18:25,290 --> 03:18:25,400 IP. 1950 03:18:26,580 --> 03:18:28,500 as far as future loans are concerned. 1951 03:18:28,500 --> 03:18:31,190 It's the Act Dev Fund that we're looking at 1952 03:18:31,190 --> 03:18:32,130 reducing, 1953 03:18:32,130 --> 03:18:34,190 but then once 2008, March 2008, 1954 03:18:34,190 --> 03:18:35,820 then those funds will go there 1955 03:18:35,820 --> 03:18:37,300 and it will be naturally replenished 1956 03:18:37,300 --> 03:18:39,440 without a motion from council 1957 03:18:39,440 --> 03:18:42,880 or anything to get that particular reserve fund 1958 03:18:42,880 --> 03:18:45,750 back to where it was before this whole process 1959 03:18:45,750 --> 03:18:47,670 started. 1960 03:18:47,670 --> 03:18:51,060 - Go ahead, oh, Mr. Murray, okay, Mr. Murray, go 1961 03:18:51,060 --> 03:18:52,860 ahead. 1962 03:18:52,860 --> 03:18:55,750 - Sure, let me through you, Mr. Mayor, take a 1963 03:18:55,750 --> 03:18:56,150 stab 1964 03:18:56,150 --> 03:18:58,640 at explaining it perhaps in a slightly different 1965 03:18:58,640 --> 03:18:58,840 way, 1966 03:18:58,840 --> 03:19:01,150 but basically reiterating what Ms. Barbone has 1967 03:19:01,150 --> 03:19:01,430 said. 1968 03:19:01,430 --> 03:19:04,590 So if we look at our reserve fund schedule 1969 03:19:04,590 --> 03:19:06,690 for the CIP reserve fund, 1970 03:19:06,690 --> 03:19:12,260 we have anticipated inflows for the repayment 1971 03:19:12,260 --> 03:19:13,960 of the CIP loans. 1972 03:19:13,960 --> 03:19:16,200 We have a consistent amount for those 1973 03:19:16,200 --> 03:19:18,370 assumed out into the future. 1974 03:19:18,370 --> 03:19:20,960 We also have a consistent amount 1975 03:19:20,960 --> 03:19:24,750 of projected issuance of new loans 1976 03:19:24,750 --> 03:19:29,430 that effectively recycles the repayments 1977 03:19:29,430 --> 03:19:31,460 to issue new loans. 1978 03:19:31,460 --> 03:19:34,830 So that, if that cycle is interrupted, 1979 03:19:34,830 --> 03:19:38,670 there is a need to ultimately backfill 1980 03:19:38,670 --> 03:19:42,410 for those inflows that are not coming into the 1981 03:19:42,410 --> 03:19:43,620 reserve fund. 1982 03:19:43,620 --> 03:19:49,810 So, in other words, whether there is a disruption 1983 03:19:49,810 --> 03:19:53,360 of the projected inflows in the short term 1984 03:19:53,360 --> 03:19:58,840 or a reduction of the inflows in the future 1985 03:19:59,110 --> 03:20:02,230 because those inflows are being redirected 1986 03:20:02,230 --> 03:20:02,640 instead 1987 03:20:02,640 --> 03:20:05,630 to the economic development reserve fund. 1988 03:20:05,630 --> 03:20:09,130 In either case, it's going to put the CIP reserve 1989 03:20:09,130 --> 03:20:09,660 fund 1990 03:20:09,660 --> 03:20:13,620 in a precarious spot given that we have assumed 1991 03:20:13,620 --> 03:20:16,690 into the future that those repayments 1992 03:20:16,690 --> 03:20:18,520 are funding new loans. 1993 03:20:18,520 --> 03:20:23,490 So unfortunately, there's no ability to replenish 1994 03:20:23,490 --> 03:20:23,590 , 1995 03:20:23,490 --> 03:20:27,190 effectively the economic development reserve fund 1996 03:20:27,190 --> 03:20:31,120 as has been proposed without causing constraints 1997 03:20:31,120 --> 03:20:36,350 or problems to the CIP reserve fund. 1998 03:20:36,350 --> 03:20:37,480 - Councillor Layman, I apologize. 1999 03:20:37,480 --> 03:20:39,740 I'm not making myself clear. 2000 03:20:39,740 --> 03:20:42,250 The concern raised by finance is that we don't 2001 03:20:42,250 --> 03:20:42,480 want 2002 03:20:42,480 --> 03:20:46,140 to obstruct the inflows, which we would in this 2003 03:20:46,140 --> 03:20:46,420 case 2004 03:20:46,420 --> 03:20:48,100 because it's used for outflows. 2005 03:20:48,100 --> 03:20:49,620 I get that. 2006 03:20:49,620 --> 03:20:53,420 What I'm proposing here is that ECDAV covers the 2007 03:20:53,420 --> 03:20:53,880 inflows 2008 03:20:53,880 --> 03:20:55,700 over to CIP. 2009 03:20:55,700 --> 03:21:00,380 It's the ECDAV fund that's going to be affected 2010 03:21:00,380 --> 03:21:04,630 has, you know, Councilor Fair are indicated. 2011 03:21:04,630 --> 03:21:08,300 The CIP's gonna be fine with Councilor Stevenson 2012 03:21:08,300 --> 03:21:09,110 's motion. 2013 03:21:09,110 --> 03:21:10,440 It's gonna be fine. 2014 03:21:10,440 --> 03:21:12,740 I'm concerned about the Act Dev Fund, 2015 03:21:12,740 --> 03:21:13,810 and I don't want a double dip. 2016 03:21:13,810 --> 03:21:19,040 So I want, so the CIP Fund would be made whole, 2017 03:21:19,040 --> 03:21:22,950 and then the continuing, once the repayments 2018 03:21:22,950 --> 03:21:23,260 start, 2019 03:21:23,260 --> 03:21:24,480 it will get an extra one, 2020 03:21:24,480 --> 03:21:27,240 because we're gonna throw in another 1.5 million 2021 03:21:27,240 --> 03:21:27,720 right now 2022 03:21:27,720 --> 03:21:30,500 to cover the loss of those payments. 2023 03:21:30,500 --> 03:21:34,140 All I'm saying is, let's keep both funds 2024 03:21:34,140 --> 03:21:36,530 the way they were by redirecting the first 2025 03:21:36,530 --> 03:21:38,880 hundred one point five million of repayments 2026 03:21:38,880 --> 03:21:42,580 back to the Act Dev Fund. So that the Act Dev 2027 03:21:42,580 --> 03:21:46,760 Fund is not in the long term, it is made whole. 2028 03:21:46,760 --> 03:21:48,840 The short term, yeah, it's going to be down one 2029 03:21:48,840 --> 03:21:59,320 and a half million. Mr. Murray or Ms. Provost. 2030 03:21:59,320 --> 03:22:03,310 So through the chair, so maybe I can try 2031 03:22:03,310 --> 03:22:07,300 explaining this. So when those funds, so the 2032 03:22:07,300 --> 03:22:08,220 deferral 2033 03:22:08,220 --> 03:22:11,900 from a long-term sustainability is delaying those 2034 03:22:11,900 --> 03:22:14,870 payments, so those payments are not being 2035 03:22:14,870 --> 03:22:17,640 received over that period of time. Over that same 2036 03:22:17,640 --> 03:22:20,180 period of time, we expect to issue those same 2037 03:22:20,180 --> 03:22:23,860 amount of loans. So at that time, when the defer 2038 03:22:23,860 --> 03:22:27,820 ral ends, assuming that it will end at the date 2039 03:22:27,820 --> 03:22:27,950 that 2040 03:22:27,950 --> 03:22:31,530 is stated in the motion, those newer payments 2041 03:22:31,530 --> 03:22:34,830 will begin to come in, so all of the loans will 2042 03:22:34,830 --> 03:22:37,260 will begin arraignments at that time of the 2043 03:22:37,260 --> 03:22:39,790 additional loans that have been also issued 2044 03:22:39,790 --> 03:22:42,010 over this period of time. 2045 03:22:42,010 --> 03:22:44,980 When those new loans come in, the repayments, 2046 03:22:44,980 --> 03:22:47,890 once they begin, will then fund new loans. 2047 03:22:47,890 --> 03:22:50,880 If those repayments are assumed to fund new loans 2048 03:22:50,880 --> 03:22:53,130 but are now redirected to the Economic 2049 03:22:53,130 --> 03:22:56,210 Development Reserve Fund, you will not have an 2050 03:22:56,210 --> 03:22:58,880 ability to issue the loans or any new loans 2051 03:22:58,880 --> 03:23:01,220 at that point in time that they are redirected 2052 03:23:01,220 --> 03:23:03,960 because there will be no repayments going 2053 03:23:03,960 --> 03:23:06,700 back into the CIP at that period in time. 2054 03:23:06,700 --> 03:23:10,480 So over the long term, if we're trying to make it 2055 03:23:10,480 --> 03:23:11,270 whole, 2056 03:23:11,270 --> 03:23:14,740 with the delay, the only ability to actually make 2057 03:23:14,740 --> 03:23:15,170 the fund 2058 03:23:15,170 --> 03:23:18,620 whole would be to not issue loans for the defer 2059 03:23:18,620 --> 03:23:19,230 ral period 2060 03:23:19,230 --> 03:23:20,490 of time. 2061 03:23:20,490 --> 03:23:23,900 Because we're assuming that as the money comes in 2062 03:23:23,900 --> 03:23:24,000 , 2063 03:23:23,900 --> 03:23:26,660 it is being reissued as new loans over that same 2064 03:23:26,660 --> 03:23:26,780 period 2065 03:23:26,780 --> 03:23:27,580 of time. 2066 03:23:27,580 --> 03:23:30,930 So that at the end of the day, the repayments 2067 03:23:30,930 --> 03:23:33,740 will always be covering the outflows at the same 2068 03:23:33,740 --> 03:23:34,110 time. 2069 03:23:34,110 --> 03:23:36,440 If you stop those repayments, 2070 03:23:36,440 --> 03:23:38,710 then without issuing new loans, 2071 03:23:38,710 --> 03:23:41,500 you have to be ensure that that backfill 2072 03:23:41,500 --> 03:23:42,370 continues. 2073 03:23:42,370 --> 03:23:45,400 So I'm not sure if I'm totally misunderstanding 2074 03:23:45,400 --> 03:23:46,440 you're saying something different, 2075 03:23:46,440 --> 03:23:48,700 but hopefully that helped Elise clarify 2076 03:23:48,700 --> 03:23:49,940 how we're understanding it. 2077 03:23:49,940 --> 03:23:53,790 - So let me jump in, Councillor. 2078 03:23:53,790 --> 03:23:57,440 I think with Councillor, and funny story, Coun 2079 03:23:57,440 --> 03:23:57,830 cillor Lehman, 2080 03:23:57,830 --> 03:23:59,880 I actually have language that might deal with 2081 03:23:59,880 --> 03:24:00,040 this 2082 03:24:00,040 --> 03:24:02,400 'cause I was thinking the same thing you were. 2083 03:24:02,400 --> 03:24:04,770 Councillor Lehman is not saying, 2084 03:24:04,770 --> 03:24:08,290 put every single dollar in March of 2028 that's 2085 03:24:08,290 --> 03:24:09,850 coming in into the Act of 2086 03:24:09,850 --> 03:24:12,280 Reserve Fund. I think what he's trying to say is 2087 03:24:12,280 --> 03:24:15,830 if we have, let's pretend, 1.15 2088 03:24:15,830 --> 03:24:17,980 million dollars of loans out there that we're 2089 03:24:17,980 --> 03:24:19,660 about to defer and we think we're 2090 03:24:19,660 --> 03:24:23,380 going to issue 1.5 million dollars of loans 2091 03:24:23,380 --> 03:24:23,860 because we're 2092 03:24:23,860 --> 03:24:26,170 transferring from economic development into CIP 2093 03:24:26,170 --> 03:24:27,890 so we can issue them. Now we 2094 03:24:27,890 --> 03:24:30,800 have 2.3 million dollars of loans outstanding, 2095 03:24:30,800 --> 03:24:31,880 all of which will start to 2096 03:24:31,880 --> 03:24:34,520 get repaid after March of 2028. 2097 03:24:34,520 --> 03:24:38,490 And so what we could do if we're only 2098 03:24:38,490 --> 03:24:40,840 going to issue about $1.15 million of loans 2099 03:24:40,840 --> 03:24:43,240 is start to restore the Economic Development 2100 03:24:43,240 --> 03:24:43,490 Reserve Fund 2101 03:24:43,490 --> 03:24:46,250 at that time with a portion of those returning 2102 03:24:46,250 --> 03:24:46,490 funds, 2103 03:24:46,490 --> 03:24:49,330 while using the other portion to keep the program 2104 03:24:49,330 --> 03:24:49,700 going. 2105 03:24:49,700 --> 03:24:53,090 I think that's what he's trying to say. 2106 03:24:53,090 --> 03:24:55,520 And that's, I think, where he's moving towards. 2107 03:24:55,520 --> 03:24:57,430 And if that's the case, I actually 2108 03:24:57,430 --> 03:24:59,850 prepared some language to amend and add 2109 03:24:59,850 --> 03:25:01,800 that staff would report back at that time 2110 03:25:01,800 --> 03:25:03,270 to look into doing that, 2111 03:25:03,270 --> 03:25:05,590 but you could give us your assessment at that 2112 03:25:05,590 --> 03:25:05,730 time. 2113 03:25:05,730 --> 03:25:06,970 But I think that's what Councillor Layman is 2114 03:25:06,970 --> 03:25:07,840 trying to say. 2115 03:25:07,840 --> 03:25:09,850 Councillor Layman. 2116 03:25:09,850 --> 03:25:11,320 - In a nutshell, yes. 2117 03:25:11,320 --> 03:25:13,210 Like what this is doing, okay, 2118 03:25:13,210 --> 03:25:14,240 how are we gonna fund this? 2119 03:25:14,240 --> 03:25:16,260 'Cause you know, that was a concern brought up at 2120 03:25:16,260 --> 03:25:16,960 PAC. 2121 03:25:16,960 --> 03:25:19,970 We can't just defer loans and say, 2122 03:25:19,970 --> 03:25:21,650 it's all about a cash flow situation. 2123 03:25:21,650 --> 03:25:25,320 So what Councillor Stephen says and says CIP, 2124 03:25:25,320 --> 03:25:26,990 'cause it reserved funds so low, 2125 03:25:26,990 --> 03:25:28,480 let's look at act dev. 2126 03:25:28,480 --> 03:25:30,490 Great, let's do that, 2127 03:25:30,490 --> 03:25:32,220 but that's replenished the act dev funds 2128 03:25:32,220 --> 03:25:34,010 being used for that because this is a loan not a 2129 03:25:34,010 --> 03:25:35,580 grant right no loan that gets 2130 03:25:35,580 --> 03:25:40,690 repaid. So the cash flow in should go for the one 2131 03:25:40,690 --> 03:25:42,680 point whatever it is back to 2132 03:25:42,680 --> 03:25:45,150 the fund where it came from to just forestall 2133 03:25:45,150 --> 03:25:47,230 that deferment. So at the end 2134 03:25:47,230 --> 03:25:50,110 of the day what the cost is to the city it's just 2135 03:25:50,110 --> 03:25:53,630 it's the interest it's the 2136 03:25:53,630 --> 03:25:55,940 interest that it's honest because it's not a 2137 03:25:55,940 --> 03:25:56,990 grant it gets repaid it's the 2138 03:25:56,990 --> 03:25:59,390 interest that we carry that extra charge for an 2139 03:25:59,390 --> 03:26:02,380 extra period of time. So I think 2140 03:26:02,380 --> 03:26:04,360 the mayor is on the same track so being you have 2141 03:26:04,360 --> 03:26:06,350 a language I apologize for I 2142 03:26:06,350 --> 03:26:09,330 should have gone earlier on this and talked 2143 03:26:09,330 --> 03:26:10,950 offline and this apologize for 2144 03:26:10,950 --> 03:26:16,570 taking folks time up I'm next on the speakers 2145 03:26:16,570 --> 03:26:18,540 list so I'll turn the chair 2146 03:26:18,540 --> 03:26:22,780 over to Councillor okay go ahead okay so 2147 03:26:22,780 --> 03:26:25,660 following on this first let me say a 2148 03:26:25,660 --> 03:26:30,410 comment I support and move came into this meeting 2149 03:26:30,410 --> 03:26:32,210 supporting what Councillor 2150 03:26:32,210 --> 03:26:34,400 Ferrer was saying and that's maybe we just pause 2151 03:26:34,400 --> 03:26:35,960 the program it sounds to me 2152 03:26:35,960 --> 03:26:38,510 like there's a significant appetite for people to 2153 03:26:38,510 --> 03:26:40,030 continue the program and based 2154 03:26:40,030 --> 03:26:41,760 on what Mr. and Mayther said about the importance 2155 03:26:41,760 --> 03:26:43,150 of the program I'm inclined 2156 03:26:43,150 --> 03:26:47,570 to try to find a pathway to do that. Given the 2157 03:26:47,570 --> 03:26:49,270 structure of Councillor 2158 03:26:49,270 --> 03:26:52,850 Stevenson's motion which is still a you have to 2159 03:26:52,850 --> 03:26:56,820 ask in writing to get to 2160 03:26:56,820 --> 03:26:59,600 basically have your loan deferred we don't know 2161 03:26:59,600 --> 03:27:01,070 what the uptake will be on 2162 03:27:01,070 --> 03:27:03,540 that maybe it's 100% maybe it's not we know what 2163 03:27:03,540 --> 03:27:04,610 we do know is even when we 2164 03:27:04,610 --> 03:27:06,350 we deferred them some people wanted to repay them 2165 03:27:06,350 --> 03:27:06,450 , 2166 03:27:06,360 --> 03:27:08,710 just get it off their books irrespective of the 2167 03:27:08,710 --> 03:27:09,030 deferral 2168 03:27:09,030 --> 03:27:09,860 period. 2169 03:27:09,860 --> 03:27:11,170 So we don't know what the uptake will be. 2170 03:27:11,170 --> 03:27:13,040 Maybe it'll be significant. 2171 03:27:13,040 --> 03:27:16,560 I think a pathway forward might be to propose an 2172 03:27:16,560 --> 03:27:17,160 update 2173 03:27:17,160 --> 03:27:19,420 in Q2 of 2027, which is, I think, 2174 03:27:19,420 --> 03:27:21,250 Councillor Ferreira was going in that direction 2175 03:27:21,250 --> 03:27:22,990 to get some information about, what's this look 2176 03:27:22,990 --> 03:27:23,090 like? 2177 03:27:23,080 --> 03:27:24,230 How's it going? 2178 03:27:24,230 --> 03:27:26,930 Are people actually applying for the deferrals, 2179 03:27:26,930 --> 03:27:29,840 to what degree, how many new loans have we issued 2180 03:27:29,840 --> 03:27:32,970 if we go with Councillor Stephenson's motion? 2181 03:27:32,970 --> 03:27:35,750 But I also think we should add a piece in 2028 to 2182 03:27:35,750 --> 03:27:36,100 say, 2183 03:27:36,100 --> 03:27:38,600 and I'm not gonna commit to just put all the 2184 03:27:38,600 --> 03:27:38,940 money back 2185 03:27:38,940 --> 03:27:40,960 in the Economic Development Reserve Fund, 2186 03:27:40,960 --> 03:27:43,250 but let's get a report from our staff at that 2187 03:27:43,250 --> 03:27:43,350 time, 2188 03:27:43,280 --> 03:27:44,570 or the municipal council of the day, 2189 03:27:44,570 --> 03:27:46,660 we'll get a report from our staff, 2190 03:27:46,660 --> 03:27:49,130 to say here's what's happening now, 2191 03:27:49,130 --> 03:27:52,460 and what is our ability to now start to repay 2192 03:27:52,460 --> 03:27:54,240 the Economic Development Reserve Fund at that 2193 03:27:54,240 --> 03:27:55,060 point in time? 2194 03:27:55,060 --> 03:27:59,230 Because in theory, if we've got loans 2195 03:27:59,230 --> 03:28:01,650 that are outstanding now of X value, 2196 03:28:01,650 --> 03:28:04,370 and they've been deferred until March of 2028, 2197 03:28:04,370 --> 03:28:07,390 and we're gonna issue potentially another 1.15 2198 03:28:07,390 --> 03:28:07,970 million 2199 03:28:07,970 --> 03:28:11,300 new loans, we're going to have all of those loans 2200 03:28:11,300 --> 03:28:14,280 , ideally being repaid at the same time, 2201 03:28:14,280 --> 03:28:16,320 which is a larger inflow into the CIP Reserve 2202 03:28:16,320 --> 03:28:18,450 Fund than we otherwise might have projected 2203 03:28:18,450 --> 03:28:20,770 if we're still issuing about the same number of 2204 03:28:20,770 --> 03:28:21,510 loans each year. 2205 03:28:21,510 --> 03:28:24,290 So that being said, I think that there is 2206 03:28:24,290 --> 03:28:27,560 potentially capacity to both keep the CIP loan 2207 03:28:27,560 --> 03:28:29,960 program going and restore a portion of the 2208 03:28:29,960 --> 03:28:32,850 Economic Development Reserve Fund, but I'm 2209 03:28:32,850 --> 03:28:34,620 not going to presume that we can do that. 2210 03:28:34,620 --> 03:28:36,380 I would, you know, the motion that I'm going to 2211 03:28:36,380 --> 03:28:38,670 propose as an amendment is have staff report 2212 03:28:38,670 --> 03:28:41,100 back at the time that the repayments start on, 2213 03:28:41,100 --> 03:28:43,000 you know, what they think about whether 2214 03:28:43,000 --> 03:28:44,330 we could do that or not. 2215 03:28:44,330 --> 03:28:47,580 So with that, and through the presiding officer, 2216 03:28:47,580 --> 03:28:50,800 I want to move an amendment that basically 2217 03:28:50,800 --> 03:28:53,390 says the amendment be further amended because we 2218 03:28:53,390 --> 03:28:54,810 can amend an amendment. 2219 03:28:54,810 --> 03:28:57,400 The civic administration be directed to report 2220 03:28:57,400 --> 03:28:58,890 back in a future meeting of planning and 2221 03:28:58,890 --> 03:29:01,940 environment committee with an update on the 2222 03:29:01,940 --> 03:29:05,690 community improvement plan loan program once 2223 03:29:05,690 --> 03:29:10,090 payments resume to restore the draws to the 2224 03:29:10,090 --> 03:29:11,210 Economic Development Reserve Fund. 2225 03:29:11,210 --> 03:29:14,410 So that's the March 2028th or after report. And 2226 03:29:14,410 --> 03:29:16,670 further the civic administration be 2227 03:29:16,670 --> 03:29:18,390 directed to report back at a future meeting of 2228 03:29:18,390 --> 03:29:20,440 planning and environment committee by Q2 of 2229 03:29:20,440 --> 03:29:23,350 2027 with an update on the community improvement 2230 03:29:23,350 --> 03:29:25,280 plan loan program. So just give us a status 2231 03:29:25,280 --> 03:29:25,590 update 2232 03:29:25,590 --> 03:29:28,390 on how things are going about a year from now to 2233 03:29:28,390 --> 03:29:31,120 say this is what it looks like. Are people 2234 03:29:31,120 --> 03:29:33,560 actually taking us up? Are we still issuing new 2235 03:29:33,560 --> 03:29:36,260 loans? But ultimately by March of 2027, 2236 03:29:36,260 --> 03:29:40,440 you're going to get back to us and say yeah you 2237 03:29:40,440 --> 03:29:41,400 know we can actually we've got 2238 03:29:41,400 --> 03:29:44,560 double the amount of money coming in or maybe 1.7 2239 03:29:44,560 --> 03:29:45,200 times the amount of money 2240 03:29:45,200 --> 03:29:48,380 come in we can still keep the CIP reserve fund 2241 03:29:48,380 --> 03:29:49,680 hole and put some money back 2242 03:29:49,680 --> 03:29:52,220 into EkDev at a time when we might need to be 2243 03:29:52,220 --> 03:29:53,420 spending it for things like 2244 03:29:53,420 --> 03:29:56,420 downtown plans and economic development plans in 2245 03:29:56,420 --> 03:29:58,610 the future so that's the 2246 03:29:58,610 --> 03:30:01,330 amendment that I would like to put on the floor 2247 03:30:01,330 --> 03:30:04,120 if there's a second okay I'll 2248 03:30:04,120 --> 03:30:05,640 I'll look for a seconder for that. 2249 03:30:05,640 --> 03:30:08,790 Councillor Stevenson has seconded. 2250 03:30:08,790 --> 03:30:11,520 I'll look for comments or questions on that 2251 03:30:11,520 --> 03:30:15,950 amendment. 2252 03:30:15,950 --> 03:30:19,820 Can we get that up on the E-Scribe? 2253 03:30:19,820 --> 03:30:20,820 Let me know when that's up there 2254 03:30:20,820 --> 03:30:27,160 so the Councillors can read it. 2255 03:30:27,160 --> 03:30:28,250 - And I'll just apologize. 2256 03:30:28,250 --> 03:30:29,670 They should have just worded those in the 2257 03:30:29,670 --> 03:30:30,150 opposite way 2258 03:30:30,150 --> 03:30:33,370 so that the Q2 2027 report is first 2259 03:30:33,370 --> 03:30:36,440 and the March kind of post March 2028 report a 2260 03:30:36,440 --> 03:30:36,810 second, 2261 03:30:36,810 --> 03:30:38,710 but they're both there and we can clean up that 2262 03:30:38,710 --> 03:30:48,250 language. 2263 03:30:48,250 --> 03:30:49,960 - Okay, it's up on the E-Scribe. 2264 03:30:49,960 --> 03:30:52,430 I'll go to Councillor Stevens. 2265 03:30:52,430 --> 03:30:55,240 - Thank you through you. 2266 03:30:55,240 --> 03:30:57,890 Can I just clarify with the mover? 2267 03:30:57,890 --> 03:31:02,040 That this is not changing the original motion. 2268 03:31:02,040 --> 03:31:05,330 It's just providing information back to council 2269 03:31:05,330 --> 03:31:07,230 on what the uptake was on the loans, 2270 03:31:07,230 --> 03:31:10,420 what the statuses of the reserve fund in March of 2271 03:31:10,420 --> 03:31:11,340 2027. 2272 03:31:11,340 --> 03:31:13,120 And again, in March of 2028, 2273 03:31:13,120 --> 03:31:15,020 to see if there's any opportunity 2274 03:31:15,020 --> 03:31:17,790 to replenish the economic development reserve 2275 03:31:17,790 --> 03:31:18,180 fund. 2276 03:31:18,180 --> 03:31:20,570 Am I correct there? 2277 03:31:20,570 --> 03:31:22,480 - I'll go to the mover. 2278 03:31:22,480 --> 03:31:23,370 Absolutely right. 2279 03:31:23,370 --> 03:31:24,840 The only difference between the two updates 2280 03:31:24,840 --> 03:31:27,340 2027 is a general update. It doesn't change 2281 03:31:27,340 --> 03:31:29,520 anything you've done. 2028 is an update with 2282 03:31:29,520 --> 03:31:31,990 a focus on could we restore the economic 2283 03:31:31,990 --> 03:31:34,610 development reserve fund in some way, but it's 2284 03:31:34,610 --> 03:31:36,910 very open-ended for staff to report back on the 2285 03:31:36,910 --> 03:31:38,840 conditions of the day. 2286 03:31:38,840 --> 03:31:43,730 Can I ask, sir? Thank you. And there's a request 2287 03:31:43,730 --> 03:31:44,630 for clarification 2288 03:31:44,630 --> 03:31:48,080 that the 1.15 million is still transferring as of 2289 03:31:48,080 --> 03:31:50,140 now to make sure the CIP reserve fund 2290 03:31:50,140 --> 03:31:56,700 is there, ready for new loans, and that, yeah, 2291 03:31:56,700 --> 03:32:00,030 there's not any happening, okay, so thank 2292 03:32:00,030 --> 03:32:01,010 you. 2293 03:32:01,010 --> 03:32:02,000 I support this. 2294 03:32:02,000 --> 03:32:02,980 It's great. 2295 03:32:02,980 --> 03:32:04,710 It leaves options available and as updates, I 2296 03:32:04,710 --> 03:32:05,980 think it's a great compromise. 2297 03:32:05,980 --> 03:32:10,820 I look for other questions, Councillor Ferri. 2298 03:32:10,820 --> 03:32:11,800 Thank you. 2299 03:32:11,800 --> 03:32:12,790 Thank you for the amendment. 2300 03:32:12,790 --> 03:32:15,030 I guess I got some questions here. 2301 03:32:15,030 --> 03:32:18,420 So from what I understand, this is a direction to 2302 03:32:18,420 --> 03:32:20,700 continue withdrawing from the Economic 2303 03:32:20,700 --> 03:32:24,220 development reserve fund to fund the deferral and 2304 03:32:24,220 --> 03:32:25,520 also have the program 2305 03:32:25,520 --> 03:32:30,540 continue as it as it is and there's also a report 2306 03:32:30,540 --> 03:32:34,190 back by Q2 just on an update on 2307 03:32:34,190 --> 03:32:37,210 the program but this is still deferring those 2308 03:32:37,210 --> 03:32:39,240 repayments back till March 31st 2309 03:32:39,240 --> 03:32:42,380 2028 is that that's am I reading that correct 2310 03:32:42,380 --> 03:32:44,980 yeah okay so with these the same 2311 03:32:44,980 --> 03:32:46,870 thing with the the draw from the act of reserve 2312 03:32:46,870 --> 03:32:48,120 fund that's kind of really 2313 03:32:48,120 --> 03:32:51,310 what's the sticking point for me. Can staff just 2314 03:32:51,310 --> 03:32:52,890 come just tell me again. So I 2315 03:32:52,890 --> 03:32:54,800 think I remember you said the balance in the Ek 2316 03:32:54,800 --> 03:32:56,150 dev Reserve Fund is about 10 2317 03:32:56,150 --> 03:33:00,560 million. What is the uncommitted balance? Sorry 2318 03:33:00,560 --> 03:33:01,900 if you could just clarify those 2319 03:33:01,900 --> 03:33:06,550 numbers again. I'll go staff. Thank you and 2320 03:33:06,550 --> 03:33:09,210 through you yes the current 2321 03:33:09,210 --> 03:33:11,760 uncommitted balance to be clear of the economic 2322 03:33:11,760 --> 03:33:13,470 development reserve fund is 2323 03:33:13,470 --> 03:33:20,680 approximately 10 million dollars. Councilor. Okay 2324 03:33:20,680 --> 03:33:22,290 thank you for that and I know we 2325 03:33:22,290 --> 03:33:23,870 don't necessarily know what's coming out of the 2326 03:33:23,870 --> 03:33:25,750 downtown plan or the economic 2327 03:33:25,750 --> 03:33:29,630 development plan. So I just need to kind of see 2328 03:33:29,630 --> 03:33:30,580 if I can get some more 2329 03:33:30,580 --> 03:33:32,870 information on that. Is there going to be any 2330 03:33:32,870 --> 03:33:34,200 interim items that are going to 2331 03:33:34,200 --> 03:33:37,320 require money for those two plans? So when they 2332 03:33:37,320 --> 03:33:39,650 come to council in July and get 2333 03:33:39,650 --> 03:33:43,280 ratified at the end of July, any quick start 2334 03:33:43,280 --> 03:33:44,810 actions or anything like that 2335 03:33:44,810 --> 03:33:47,560 would that would draw off of the economic 2336 03:33:47,560 --> 03:33:50,930 development reserve fund? 2337 03:33:50,930 --> 03:33:58,950 I'll go stuff through the presiding officer. We 2338 03:33:58,950 --> 03:34:03,280 are still finalizing the plan and however, I I 2339 03:34:03,280 --> 03:34:06,250 can just provide you information as far as the 2340 03:34:06,250 --> 03:34:08,110 timing. So we're actually bringing it back in 2341 03:34:08,110 --> 03:34:10,350 June. So there'll be some time time associated 2342 03:34:10,350 --> 03:34:13,390 with that. And as I mentioned, if if this was 2343 03:34:13,390 --> 03:34:16,400 taken off as from a program, we'd likely be 2344 03:34:16,400 --> 03:34:19,120 putting that back in anyway. So it really is not 2345 03:34:19,120 --> 03:34:21,150 a net change to what we bring forward in June. 2346 03:34:22,110 --> 03:34:25,380 Okay, I'll go back to the to the counselor just 2347 03:34:25,380 --> 03:34:27,220 to remind you that we're on the amendment to the 2348 03:34:27,220 --> 03:34:30,480 amendment, which is just a report back in the 2349 03:34:30,480 --> 03:34:35,390 future, not to the original amendment, correct, 2350 03:34:35,390 --> 03:34:43,310 correct, sorry, thank you for that reminder. 2351 03:34:43,310 --> 03:34:45,600 All right, if this is the amendment to the 2352 03:34:45,600 --> 03:34:48,610 amendment, and then I get to speak on the motion 2353 03:34:48,610 --> 03:34:51,710 as amended, I will, I guess I'll ask those 2354 03:34:51,710 --> 03:34:54,030 questions there. 2355 03:34:54,030 --> 03:35:00,140 this just for the report back and for the loan 2356 03:35:00,140 --> 03:35:04,230 program to, 2357 03:35:04,230 --> 03:35:11,230 sorry, I'll speak to the motion as amended when 2358 03:35:11,230 --> 03:35:12,960 we get there. 2359 03:35:12,960 --> 03:35:14,690 - Thank you, I'll look for other comments or 2360 03:35:14,690 --> 03:35:15,140 questions 2361 03:35:15,140 --> 03:35:16,870 on the amendment to the amendment, Council 2362 03:35:16,870 --> 03:35:17,550 approval. 2363 03:35:17,550 --> 03:35:19,770 - Very brief, supporting the Mayor's amendment 2364 03:35:19,770 --> 03:35:21,270 to the amendment, I will speak later. 2365 03:35:21,270 --> 03:35:23,500 - Thanks. 2366 03:35:23,500 --> 03:35:26,530 - Look for other speakers. 2367 03:35:26,530 --> 03:35:28,890 I'll just from the presiding officer. 2368 03:35:28,890 --> 03:35:33,250 I would have preferred to see a direct commitment 2369 03:35:33,250 --> 03:35:36,540 to it going back to the Act of Fund 2370 03:35:36,540 --> 03:35:39,760 because this does open a door to taking those 2371 03:35:39,760 --> 03:35:39,980 funds 2372 03:35:39,980 --> 03:35:41,790 to another direction, depending on the actions 2373 03:35:41,790 --> 03:35:44,830 of the future council on this. 2374 03:35:44,830 --> 03:35:47,930 That being said, this is good enough for me. 2375 03:35:47,930 --> 03:35:52,190 I think different pressures will be at that time. 2376 03:35:52,190 --> 03:35:55,220 And who knows, Councilor Ferre mentioned, 2377 03:35:55,220 --> 03:35:57,050 we might need even more capital 2378 03:35:57,050 --> 03:35:59,870 and get the plans that we had in time. 2379 03:35:59,870 --> 03:36:01,380 So I will support this. 2380 03:36:01,380 --> 03:36:03,730 So I'll look for any other speakers to this 2381 03:36:03,730 --> 03:36:04,170 amendment 2382 03:36:04,170 --> 03:36:07,030 the amendment and seeing none we will call the 2383 03:36:07,030 --> 03:36:08,020 vote on the amendment to the 2384 03:36:08,020 --> 03:36:21,380 amendment. Opposed on the vote motion carries 13- 2385 03:36:21,380 --> 03:36:23,120 0 and I'll return the chair to 2386 03:36:23,120 --> 03:36:26,500 the mayor. Okay and I'll presume Councillor 2387 03:36:26,500 --> 03:36:28,880 Stevenson and Pribler are 2388 03:36:28,880 --> 03:36:33,870 willing to move the now consolidated amendment. 2389 03:36:33,870 --> 03:36:36,200 Okay so we're now on the 2390 03:36:36,200 --> 03:36:37,910 consolidated amendment that Councillor Stevenson 2391 03:36:37,910 --> 03:36:38,670 and Councillor Pribble 2392 03:36:38,670 --> 03:36:41,530 with my changes all together we're on that debate 2393 03:36:41,530 --> 03:36:43,090 and discussion now and I'll 2394 03:36:43,090 --> 03:36:47,070 look to other speakers on this. Go ahead Councill 2395 03:36:47,070 --> 03:36:49,320 or Ferrer. Okay thank you. So this 2396 03:36:49,320 --> 03:36:52,420 is the motion as amended. So I, like I said, I 2397 03:36:52,420 --> 03:36:53,180 have the concern. 2398 03:36:53,180 --> 03:37:00,060 No, it's sorry to do this. It's the amendment as 2399 03:37:00,060 --> 03:37:05,190 amended because that's what we did. So 2400 03:37:05,190 --> 03:37:06,960 there's still going to be the motion as amended 2401 03:37:06,960 --> 03:37:10,530 later. Don't worry. So, but you can go ahead 2402 03:37:10,530 --> 03:37:12,910 and speak. So right now, Councillor Stevenson, 2403 03:37:12,910 --> 03:37:15,060 Councillor Pribbles change, changes we just 2404 03:37:15,060 --> 03:37:17,000 passed to add to them, all that together is what 2405 03:37:17,000 --> 03:37:19,570 we're debating now. 2406 03:37:19,570 --> 03:37:23,020 that includes the 1.5 million, 1.15 million. Okay 2407 03:37:23,020 --> 03:37:28,150 . So, so still, same concerns. I, because 2408 03:37:28,150 --> 03:37:31,410 we don't know what these two plans are going to 2409 03:37:31,410 --> 03:37:34,640 have in them, we could be pulling away 2410 03:37:34,640 --> 03:37:36,960 from the coffers and reducing our ability to 2411 03:37:36,960 --> 03:37:39,100 implement actions from those two plans 2412 03:37:39,100 --> 03:37:41,230 when they come. And those plans are just around 2413 03:37:41,230 --> 03:37:43,710 the corner. I understand, I guess I'll 2414 03:37:43,710 --> 03:37:46,170 go to staff, any possibility of a deferral of 2415 03:37:46,170 --> 03:37:48,900 this decision for after those two plans 2416 03:37:48,900 --> 03:37:53,780 when they come back, is that a possibility? 2417 03:37:53,780 --> 03:37:54,980 - Mr. Mathers, I think. 2418 03:37:54,980 --> 03:37:57,060 Go ahead. 2419 03:37:57,060 --> 03:37:59,590 - Through the chair, so the only strict timeline 2420 03:37:59,590 --> 03:38:02,000 is that the September was when this was gonna be, 2421 03:38:02,000 --> 03:38:04,470 when we'd be sending these bills to the 2422 03:38:04,470 --> 03:38:06,340 businesses 2423 03:38:06,340 --> 03:38:07,690 and the owners of the property. 2424 03:38:07,690 --> 03:38:09,880 So that's the main restriction. 2425 03:38:09,880 --> 03:38:11,750 Of course, you'd want to get people a heads up 2426 03:38:11,750 --> 03:38:14,060 if you're going to start making those billings 2427 03:38:14,060 --> 03:38:16,090 for a very short timeframe. 2428 03:38:16,090 --> 03:38:17,800 So that's why we brought you the report right now 2429 03:38:17,800 --> 03:38:17,900 . 2430 03:38:17,800 --> 03:38:20,590 So that the most specific timeframe is that 2431 03:38:20,590 --> 03:38:21,460 September date 2432 03:38:21,460 --> 03:38:24,250 when we would have to, no, when we're issuing 2433 03:38:24,250 --> 03:38:27,310 those bills. 2434 03:38:27,310 --> 03:38:28,260 - Go ahead, Councillor Ferra. 2435 03:38:28,260 --> 03:38:29,070 - Okay, thank you for that. 2436 03:38:29,070 --> 03:38:33,410 So the answer is, if we defer it until after 2437 03:38:33,410 --> 03:38:34,740 we get those two plans, which are coming 2438 03:38:34,740 --> 03:38:38,140 at the same committee cycle on the same day, 2439 03:38:38,140 --> 03:38:41,100 we may run into the risk of not being able 2440 03:38:41,100 --> 03:38:44,680 to send out those letters to notify the property 2441 03:38:44,680 --> 03:38:45,700 owners 2442 03:38:45,700 --> 03:38:47,960 of whatever our decision is, that's, is that 2443 03:38:47,960 --> 03:38:49,820 correct? 2444 03:38:49,820 --> 03:38:54,030 Okay, I'm, like I said, like I don't, 2445 03:38:54,030 --> 03:38:55,930 like I could go with this if I knew 2446 03:38:55,930 --> 03:38:57,840 what those plans are gonna have in it. 2447 03:38:57,840 --> 03:38:59,600 And that's my concern. 2448 03:38:59,600 --> 03:39:01,780 You know, we have already been impacted 2449 03:39:01,780 --> 03:39:04,410 with the downtown plan items 2450 03:39:04,410 --> 03:39:07,750 with the unwaved steam decommissioning stuff. 2451 03:39:07,750 --> 03:39:10,070 So we're already kind of losing some of the 2452 03:39:10,070 --> 03:39:10,450 ability 2453 03:39:10,450 --> 03:39:12,840 to bring in some of these interim measures 2454 03:39:12,840 --> 03:39:14,820 that could be potentially within the plan. 2455 03:39:14,820 --> 03:39:17,290 Now I do hear that staff saying like if we go 2456 03:39:17,290 --> 03:39:17,680 with this, 2457 03:39:17,680 --> 03:39:21,730 the downtown plan may bring these items back, 2458 03:39:21,730 --> 03:39:23,450 but then where does the money come from for that? 2459 03:39:23,450 --> 03:39:24,990 And I understand that there's a multi-year budget 2460 03:39:24,990 --> 03:39:25,300 cycle 2461 03:39:25,300 --> 03:39:26,920 coming as well. 2462 03:39:26,920 --> 03:39:29,220 I just, I feel really hard pressed to make a 2463 03:39:29,220 --> 03:39:29,550 decision here 2464 03:39:29,550 --> 03:39:31,790 and pull money from that active reserve fund 2465 03:39:31,790 --> 03:39:37,840 without knowing exactly what items 2466 03:39:37,840 --> 03:39:38,900 are coming out of those plans. 2467 03:39:38,900 --> 03:39:43,180 So I guess I would also say I do have a chance 2468 03:39:43,180 --> 03:39:45,030 to speak again on the main motion as amended. 2469 03:39:45,030 --> 03:39:46,930 Is that right or is this it? 2470 03:39:46,930 --> 03:39:47,980 I do. 2471 03:39:47,980 --> 03:39:49,400 - No, you get a chance later. 2472 03:39:49,400 --> 03:39:53,380 - Okay, like I, some of the questions that I 2473 03:39:53,380 --> 03:39:54,440 asked staff, 2474 03:39:54,440 --> 03:39:57,330 just so we're aware of where we're going, 2475 03:39:57,330 --> 03:40:01,330 is what is the facade improvement loan principal 2476 03:40:01,330 --> 03:40:01,850 amount? 2477 03:40:01,850 --> 03:40:04,190 And those principal amounts are quite 2478 03:40:04,190 --> 03:40:05,640 on the lower side of things. 2479 03:40:05,640 --> 03:40:07,810 I think the highest numbers that we had 2480 03:40:07,810 --> 03:40:11,130 was from 10 to 15,000 in below. 2481 03:40:11,130 --> 03:40:13,490 And for the upgrade to building code loan, 2482 03:40:13,490 --> 03:40:15,060 those principal amounts that are still 2483 03:40:15,060 --> 03:40:19,810 owing are largely around the $20,000 to $30,000 2484 03:40:19,810 --> 03:40:20,320 mark. 2485 03:40:20,320 --> 03:40:22,720 It tapers right off once you get onto the high 2486 03:40:22,720 --> 03:40:23,620 end of those. 2487 03:40:23,620 --> 03:40:26,030 And I think maybe a big decision to really kind 2488 03:40:26,030 --> 03:40:26,980 of focus here 2489 03:40:26,980 --> 03:40:29,120 is the monthly repayment amounts. 2490 03:40:29,120 --> 03:40:31,140 And the biggest monthly repayment amount, 2491 03:40:31,140 --> 03:40:33,350 which is right in the middle for the facade 2492 03:40:33,350 --> 03:40:34,280 improvement loan, 2493 03:40:34,280 --> 03:40:37,880 is around $200 to $225 per property. 2494 03:40:37,880 --> 03:40:41,420 I see a really big increase on the lower end 2495 03:40:41,420 --> 03:40:43,010 for the monthly payment amounts. 2496 03:40:43,010 --> 03:40:45,050 And then for the building code, 2497 03:40:45,050 --> 03:40:47,540 loan monthly payment, the largest amount 2498 03:40:47,540 --> 03:40:51,210 is around the $400 to $500 per property. 2499 03:40:51,210 --> 03:40:53,750 And then it's below, and then everything is less 2500 03:40:53,750 --> 03:40:54,050 than that. 2501 03:40:54,050 --> 03:40:57,110 So like if we're considering potentially 2502 03:40:57,110 --> 03:41:00,060 pausing this program, some of these amounts 2503 03:41:00,060 --> 03:41:02,460 for these properties are quite low to pay back 2504 03:41:02,460 --> 03:41:03,200 per month. 2505 03:41:03,200 --> 03:41:05,670 The highest ones for the building or after the 2506 03:41:05,670 --> 03:41:06,980 400 to 500, 2507 03:41:06,980 --> 03:41:10,170 we're talking anywhere from 100 to $200 a monthly 2508 03:41:10,170 --> 03:41:10,600 payment 2509 03:41:10,600 --> 03:41:12,390 to bring that back. 2510 03:41:12,390 --> 03:41:16,380 So it's just, if we were to consider, you know, 2511 03:41:16,380 --> 03:41:17,840 really what the impact will be, 2512 03:41:17,840 --> 03:41:22,150 like I would be more willing to not pause the 2513 03:41:22,150 --> 03:41:23,110 program. 2514 03:41:23,920 --> 03:41:27,100 I would be more willing to have the program 2515 03:41:27,100 --> 03:41:27,720 continue 2516 03:41:27,720 --> 03:41:29,320 for the payments to come back, 2517 03:41:29,320 --> 03:41:32,180 rather than pulling from the ECTIV Reserve Fund, 2518 03:41:32,180 --> 03:41:35,610 just because we don't know what pressures 2519 03:41:35,610 --> 03:41:37,330 we'll have on that within a month's time. 2520 03:41:37,330 --> 03:41:39,660 So I'm a little hesitant. 2521 03:41:39,660 --> 03:41:41,000 I know I get to speak again, 2522 03:41:41,000 --> 03:41:43,280 so I guess I'll hear what committee has to say, 2523 03:41:43,280 --> 03:41:46,870 but I would just say just be mindful, 2524 03:41:46,870 --> 03:41:48,340 or 'cause I'm being mindful of, 2525 03:41:48,340 --> 03:41:50,650 we're gonna have these two big plans that are 2526 03:41:50,650 --> 03:41:51,070 coming out, 2527 03:41:51,070 --> 03:41:53,640 and these two big plans are really focused on, 2528 03:41:53,640 --> 03:41:56,530 I guess the economic engine of the city, 2529 03:41:56,530 --> 03:41:57,760 which is the downtown. 2530 03:41:57,760 --> 03:42:00,500 And then the other plan is that economic strategy 2531 03:42:00,500 --> 03:42:02,330 for the city, for the entire city. 2532 03:42:02,330 --> 03:42:04,070 And we're gonna need money to fund some of those 2533 03:42:04,070 --> 03:42:04,520 programs 2534 03:42:04,520 --> 03:42:06,350 and some of those implementations in there. 2535 03:42:06,350 --> 03:42:07,980 And if we kind of make this decision now, 2536 03:42:07,980 --> 03:42:10,300 we could be at risk of not being able to fully 2537 03:42:10,300 --> 03:42:10,840 fund those. 2538 03:42:10,840 --> 03:42:17,760 So I guess I'll speak again once the time comes. 2539 03:42:17,760 --> 03:42:20,270 - Okay, I have Councillor Hopkins next. 2540 03:42:20,270 --> 03:42:21,070 - Yeah, thank you. 2541 03:42:21,070 --> 03:42:25,470 And this is on the amendment, 2542 03:42:25,470 --> 03:42:26,740 the amendment to the amendment. 2543 03:42:26,740 --> 03:42:29,440 I appreciate my colleagues working together 2544 03:42:29,440 --> 03:42:32,300 and coming up with a consensus on the amendment 2545 03:42:32,300 --> 03:42:33,220 now. 2546 03:42:33,220 --> 03:42:35,960 I hear the concerns from the-- 2547 03:42:35,960 --> 03:42:37,210 - For clarity, Councillor, 2548 03:42:37,210 --> 03:42:39,360 we're on the amendment as amended. 2549 03:42:39,360 --> 03:42:42,240 So what we're debating now is, 2550 03:42:42,240 --> 03:42:48,180 draw from Act of Reserve Fund to keep the program 2551 03:42:48,180 --> 03:42:48,650 going, 2552 03:42:48,650 --> 03:42:50,520 get some reports back. 2553 03:42:50,520 --> 03:42:54,790 And whether we wanna add those in, yes, B and C, 2554 03:42:54,790 --> 03:42:56,810 plus the pieces I added on the reporting. 2555 03:42:56,810 --> 03:42:59,090 - Thank you for that clarification. 2556 03:42:59,090 --> 03:43:04,400 And just understanding where the councilor is 2557 03:43:04,400 --> 03:43:04,500 coming from 2558 03:43:04,400 --> 03:43:08,340 and the two plans that we're going to get in June 2559 03:43:08,340 --> 03:43:08,440 , 2560 03:43:08,340 --> 03:43:11,630 I wonder and needing a little bit more 2561 03:43:11,630 --> 03:43:12,680 information. 2562 03:43:12,680 --> 03:43:14,710 I'm always reminded here at council 2563 03:43:14,710 --> 03:43:18,210 we're making decisions on council when you know, 2564 03:43:18,210 --> 03:43:20,040 this to me is like committee work. 2565 03:43:20,040 --> 03:43:23,710 If is there an opportunity maybe through your 2566 03:43:23,710 --> 03:43:24,260 worship 2567 03:43:24,260 --> 03:43:27,780 to staff if there's an opportunity to refer this 2568 03:43:27,780 --> 03:43:28,180 back 2569 03:43:28,180 --> 03:43:32,600 to PEC and get further clarification. 2570 03:43:32,600 --> 03:43:35,930 And I understand notices have to go out to 2571 03:43:35,930 --> 03:43:37,310 businesses as well. 2572 03:43:37,310 --> 03:43:39,250 So I'm just trying to understand that timeline. 2573 03:43:39,250 --> 03:43:42,910 But again, is there an opportunity 2574 03:43:42,910 --> 03:43:47,540 to have a go to PEC understand the numbers, 2575 03:43:47,540 --> 03:43:50,820 knowing that we've got the two plans coming to us 2576 03:43:50,820 --> 03:43:57,090 as well? 2577 03:43:57,090 --> 03:44:02,480 I'll go to the staff on the timelines, Mr. Mather 2578 03:44:02,480 --> 03:44:02,920 s. 2579 03:44:02,920 --> 03:44:04,860 - Through the chair, yeah, it's always an option 2580 03:44:04,860 --> 03:44:06,280 to refer things back to staff. 2581 03:44:06,280 --> 03:44:08,800 And as far as the timelines, 2582 03:44:08,800 --> 03:44:11,390 this doesn't necessarily cause a problem with the 2583 03:44:11,390 --> 03:44:11,570 timeline. 2584 03:44:11,570 --> 03:44:13,030 I just don't know what additional or different 2585 03:44:13,030 --> 03:44:13,530 information 2586 03:44:13,530 --> 03:44:16,100 we'd be providing at that time. 2587 03:44:16,100 --> 03:44:18,390 - Yeah, and Councilor, I'll just let you know, 2588 03:44:18,390 --> 03:44:19,890 it went to the committee, 2589 03:44:19,890 --> 03:44:22,130 but then I believe it was Ms. Barbone 2590 03:44:22,130 --> 03:44:24,570 who provided some information about the possible 2591 03:44:24,570 --> 03:44:24,900 options. 2592 03:44:24,900 --> 03:44:27,510 So we can consider for council based on that. 2593 03:44:27,510 --> 03:44:29,590 And that's why I think the Councillors are taking 2594 03:44:29,590 --> 03:44:31,220 the action here rather than a committee 2595 03:44:31,220 --> 03:44:33,160 because it was something that was discussed at 2596 03:44:33,160 --> 03:44:35,370 the committee, asked for some information. 2597 03:44:35,370 --> 03:44:37,100 Information was given for them to prepare to be 2598 03:44:37,100 --> 03:44:37,390 here. 2599 03:44:37,390 --> 03:44:39,440 So I just started to clarify that. 2600 03:44:39,440 --> 03:44:40,420 That isn't precluded referral. 2601 03:44:40,420 --> 03:44:42,570 I just wanted to give you that information too. 2602 03:44:42,570 --> 03:44:43,680 Yeah. 2603 03:44:43,680 --> 03:44:44,670 Thank you for that. 2604 03:44:44,670 --> 03:44:46,610 And I also appreciate getting the information 2605 03:44:46,610 --> 03:44:48,310 that maybe there is a little bit more of a 2606 03:44:48,310 --> 03:44:49,640 timeline here. 2607 03:44:49,640 --> 03:44:53,380 Less pressure on us to make decisions if we have 2608 03:44:53,380 --> 03:44:55,320 concerns about the Act of Reserve Fund. 2609 03:44:55,320 --> 03:44:57,890 So I'll put that out. 2610 03:44:57,890 --> 03:45:02,290 That would be something that I would support. 2611 03:45:02,290 --> 03:45:04,820 - Sorry, you're moving a referral or? 2612 03:45:04,820 --> 03:45:07,940 - Yeah, I'm happy to move the referral, but. 2613 03:45:07,940 --> 03:45:09,720 - Okay, well, I just do, I was just clarifying 2614 03:45:09,720 --> 03:45:10,610 when you said I'll put that out 2615 03:45:10,610 --> 03:45:11,580 when you talked about a referral, 2616 03:45:11,580 --> 03:45:13,610 I didn't want you to sit down, lose your speaking 2617 03:45:13,610 --> 03:45:13,790 time, 2618 03:45:13,790 --> 03:45:16,270 and then you say you moved a referral and you 2619 03:45:16,270 --> 03:45:17,490 wanted to. 2620 03:45:17,490 --> 03:45:20,410 - Well, I know other councils have not spoken. 2621 03:45:20,410 --> 03:45:22,540 I want to hear from my colleagues as well. 2622 03:45:22,540 --> 03:45:25,120 I just want to share with you, 2623 03:45:25,120 --> 03:45:28,100 just making a decision right now. 2624 03:45:28,100 --> 03:45:30,460 - No problem, I'm just letting you know, 2625 03:45:30,460 --> 03:45:32,330 you can do that if someone else can make a 2626 03:45:32,330 --> 03:45:32,650 referral, 2627 03:45:32,650 --> 03:45:35,030 but you wouldn't be able to speak again at this 2628 03:45:35,030 --> 03:45:35,340 time 2629 03:45:35,340 --> 03:45:38,260 on this particular amendment. 2630 03:45:38,260 --> 03:45:40,950 But you could refer when we get to the main 2631 03:45:40,950 --> 03:45:41,180 motion, 2632 03:45:41,180 --> 03:45:47,420 of course, so, okay, perfect. 2633 03:45:47,420 --> 03:45:48,950 Councillor Stephenson. 2634 03:45:48,950 --> 03:45:50,390 - Thank you. 2635 03:45:50,390 --> 03:45:52,280 Just trying to make this a little clearer. 2636 03:45:52,280 --> 03:45:54,680 I'm hoping that Council can sort of solve 2637 03:45:54,680 --> 03:45:56,470 one problem at a time. 2638 03:45:56,470 --> 03:45:58,680 We have a problem right before us, 2639 03:45:58,680 --> 03:46:01,500 where we've got real issues in our court area 2640 03:46:01,500 --> 03:46:04,740 that they're not where we all want them to be. 2641 03:46:04,740 --> 03:46:07,360 Property owners and businesses need some support. 2642 03:46:07,360 --> 03:46:09,030 There's very little we can do for them. 2643 03:46:09,030 --> 03:46:11,700 This is a very small thing that we're able to do 2644 03:46:11,700 --> 03:46:14,160 to ask them to start making payments again 2645 03:46:14,160 --> 03:46:16,510 is not gonna go over very well 2646 03:46:16,510 --> 03:46:18,590 when they haven't seen the results 2647 03:46:18,590 --> 03:46:21,050 that we're all committed to. 2648 03:46:21,050 --> 03:46:25,640 So we are all very committed to our downtown 2649 03:46:25,640 --> 03:46:27,390 and to this downtown strategy. 2650 03:46:27,390 --> 03:46:29,740 And so if at the time that is short 2651 03:46:29,740 --> 03:46:32,060 that's another problem that could be solved at 2652 03:46:32,060 --> 03:46:32,640 that time. 2653 03:46:32,640 --> 03:46:35,510 and I think we get to trust that Council has that 2654 03:46:35,510 --> 03:46:36,300 commitment. 2655 03:46:36,300 --> 03:46:38,250 I also wanna ask through you to staff 2656 03:46:38,250 --> 03:46:40,800 just to maybe reassure some of my colleagues 2657 03:46:40,800 --> 03:46:42,880 who are concerned. 2658 03:46:42,880 --> 03:46:49,190 If in June, we were to regret this decision. 2659 03:46:49,190 --> 03:46:52,490 Is there anything stopping Council at that time 2660 03:46:52,490 --> 03:46:56,040 from transferring the money back 2661 03:46:56,040 --> 03:46:58,120 and pausing the loan program? 2662 03:46:58,120 --> 03:47:01,890 Because this particular amendment just says 2663 03:47:01,890 --> 03:47:03,910 we're going to continue the deferrals 2664 03:47:03,910 --> 03:47:05,810 and we're gonna take the money from the Act of 2665 03:47:05,810 --> 03:47:06,880 Fund. 2666 03:47:06,880 --> 03:47:08,980 But there was another option to us 2667 03:47:08,980 --> 03:47:11,800 to pause any new loans, 2668 03:47:11,800 --> 03:47:13,620 any opportunity for new loans, 2669 03:47:13,620 --> 03:47:17,290 was option one which I set aside, I like option 2670 03:47:17,290 --> 03:47:18,050 two. 2671 03:47:18,050 --> 03:47:21,580 But if in June we wish we'd not done this, 2672 03:47:21,580 --> 03:47:25,110 could, it's not a decided matter 2673 03:47:25,110 --> 03:47:26,960 because it's something different, correct? 2674 03:47:26,960 --> 03:47:29,840 We could move a motion to say we wanna pause any 2675 03:47:29,840 --> 03:47:31,200 new loans 2676 03:47:31,200 --> 03:47:36,250 and fund that with, so I'll let staff. 2677 03:47:36,250 --> 03:47:37,780 but I'm just wondering if, 2678 03:47:37,780 --> 03:47:40,080 rather than refer this back and talk about it 2679 03:47:40,080 --> 03:47:40,260 more, 2680 03:47:40,260 --> 03:47:42,150 if we could make this move 2681 03:47:42,150 --> 03:47:44,920 and then have another option available to us in 2682 03:47:44,920 --> 03:47:45,410 June 2683 03:47:45,410 --> 03:47:52,030 to pause the loan program and do a transfer back. 2684 03:47:52,030 --> 03:47:55,920 - I'll go to Ms. Barbara. 2685 03:47:55,920 --> 03:47:56,990 - Thank you through the chair. 2686 03:47:56,990 --> 03:47:58,810 I'll defer to the clerks with respect 2687 03:47:58,810 --> 03:48:00,900 to whether it's a decided matter of council, 2688 03:48:00,900 --> 03:48:03,470 but perhaps if I can be helpful. 2689 03:48:03,470 --> 03:48:07,710 Daph had recommended given the complexity of this 2690 03:48:07,710 --> 03:48:09,710 to do a report back. 2691 03:48:09,710 --> 03:48:12,040 there's clearly a desire of counsel to move 2692 03:48:12,040 --> 03:48:12,820 forward quickly 2693 03:48:12,820 --> 03:48:14,990 with the decision for a deferral. 2694 03:48:14,990 --> 03:48:17,790 From our perspective, having a sense of the 2695 03:48:17,790 --> 03:48:18,960 timing on that 2696 03:48:18,960 --> 03:48:21,960 so that we have enough time to ensure we get the 2697 03:48:21,960 --> 03:48:22,320 payments 2698 03:48:22,320 --> 03:48:23,950 and be able to coordinate the payments 2699 03:48:23,950 --> 03:48:27,590 and have enough notice to the loan holders 2700 03:48:27,590 --> 03:48:29,700 is certainly advantageous. 2701 03:48:29,700 --> 03:48:33,130 The report back next year perhaps might actually 2702 03:48:33,130 --> 03:48:37,020 be the most helpful because it would show very 2703 03:48:37,020 --> 03:48:37,800 clearly 2704 03:48:37,800 --> 03:48:39,600 what the state of the reserve fund is, 2705 03:48:39,600 --> 03:48:44,430 what the identification is of the loans that are 2706 03:48:44,430 --> 03:48:44,590 projected 2707 03:48:44,590 --> 03:48:48,550 and what the repayments are in terms of based on 2708 03:48:48,550 --> 03:48:49,500 the loans 2709 03:48:49,500 --> 03:48:54,380 when the estimated repayments would begin. 2710 03:48:54,380 --> 03:48:56,730 Certainly the reserve fund we manage 2711 03:48:56,730 --> 03:48:59,680 on a consolidated basis for all CIP reserve funds 2712 03:48:59,680 --> 03:48:59,780 . 2713 03:48:59,680 --> 03:49:02,030 So there is some floating in balances 2714 03:49:02,030 --> 03:49:04,020 and we look at average payments. 2715 03:49:04,020 --> 03:49:07,720 So as we identify, yes payments might be higher, 2716 03:49:07,720 --> 03:49:09,390 that there are payments that will end, 2717 03:49:09,390 --> 03:49:11,700 and we look at that over a period of time. 2718 03:49:11,700 --> 03:49:14,990 The cash flow doesn't match specifically 2719 03:49:14,990 --> 03:49:16,990 of we have some assumptions, 2720 03:49:16,990 --> 03:49:18,620 but it's a little bit more complex 2721 03:49:18,620 --> 03:49:19,860 in terms of the cash management 2722 03:49:19,860 --> 03:49:21,500 on the reserve fund overall, 2723 03:49:21,500 --> 03:49:23,650 which is why we look at the repayments 2724 03:49:23,650 --> 03:49:25,960 to be able to keep that going. 2725 03:49:25,960 --> 03:49:29,120 If there are, as Mr. Mathers had already alluded 2726 03:49:29,120 --> 03:49:29,510 to, 2727 03:49:29,510 --> 03:49:33,310 there are references to looking at CIPs 2728 03:49:33,310 --> 03:49:35,750 and the importance of those through the master 2729 03:49:35,750 --> 03:49:36,260 plans. 2730 03:49:36,260 --> 03:49:39,490 if there is intent to perhaps even, you know, 2731 03:49:39,490 --> 03:49:42,030 provide more loans or have more of an emphasis on 2732 03:49:42,030 --> 03:49:42,720 loans, 2733 03:49:42,720 --> 03:49:45,510 that information and what council decides to make 2734 03:49:45,510 --> 03:49:47,850 might actually be very helpful in terms of the 2735 03:49:47,850 --> 03:49:48,670 report back 2736 03:49:48,670 --> 03:49:50,900 to be able to take all of the information, 2737 03:49:50,900 --> 03:49:53,200 give you all of those details so that 2738 03:49:53,200 --> 03:49:57,380 the council in 2027 is able to make a very clear 2739 03:49:57,380 --> 03:50:00,170 informed decision on the status of those reserve 2740 03:50:00,170 --> 03:50:00,450 funds 2741 03:50:00,450 --> 03:50:03,360 and would actually be ideal timing to inform 2742 03:50:03,360 --> 03:50:05,950 how the multi-year budget would then move forward 2743 03:50:05,950 --> 03:50:07,980 knowing if there needs to be top-ups, 2744 03:50:07,980 --> 03:50:10,450 or increased reserve fund contributions 2745 03:50:10,450 --> 03:50:12,440 going to the CIP reserve funds 2746 03:50:12,440 --> 03:50:14,790 to ensure the sustainability of those funds over 2747 03:50:14,790 --> 03:50:19,370 time. 2748 03:50:19,370 --> 03:50:21,270 - Good. 2749 03:50:21,270 --> 03:50:22,560 - Thank you for that. 2750 03:50:22,560 --> 03:50:27,390 I do fully support this amendment and the motion, 2751 03:50:27,390 --> 03:50:30,960 but just to acknowledge some of the concerns in 2752 03:50:30,960 --> 03:50:32,150 the room, 2753 03:50:32,150 --> 03:50:35,060 if we were presented in June with the downtown 2754 03:50:35,060 --> 03:50:35,910 strategy, 2755 03:50:35,910 --> 03:50:40,710 and we wanted to take this 1.15 million back, 2756 03:50:40,710 --> 03:50:43,160 - Could we as a council at that time, 2757 03:50:43,160 --> 03:50:49,440 decide to pause any new loans and take that money 2758 03:50:49,440 --> 03:50:49,540 ? 2759 03:50:49,540 --> 03:50:52,840 I just want it to be clear that I see anyway, 2760 03:50:52,840 --> 03:50:55,610 that the door to that option that is being put 2761 03:50:55,610 --> 03:50:56,000 forward 2762 03:50:56,000 --> 03:50:58,970 doesn't close, but we can make that as a decision 2763 03:50:58,970 --> 03:51:01,240 as we're looking at the downtown strategy as a 2764 03:51:01,240 --> 03:51:02,140 whole. 2765 03:51:02,140 --> 03:51:05,090 - So I'm gonna roll on that 2766 03:51:05,090 --> 03:51:06,890 'cause I'd be the one who would have to decide at 2767 03:51:06,890 --> 03:51:08,980 the time. 2768 03:51:08,980 --> 03:51:13,470 Given we are not passing a motion in the 2769 03:51:13,470 --> 03:51:15,700 affirmative 2770 03:51:15,700 --> 03:51:17,370 to pause the loans now. 2771 03:51:17,370 --> 03:51:19,960 There's not a decided matter of counsel 2772 03:51:19,960 --> 03:51:21,370 on pausing the loans. 2773 03:51:21,370 --> 03:51:23,400 So you populated the Economic Development Reserve 2774 03:51:23,400 --> 03:51:23,600 Fund 2775 03:51:23,600 --> 03:51:27,510 with money, the loan program we're taking no 2776 03:51:27,510 --> 03:51:28,210 specific action 2777 03:51:28,210 --> 03:51:32,360 on which means we're basically saying, 2778 03:51:32,360 --> 03:51:41,710 keep the deferrals going, think so. 2779 03:51:41,710 --> 03:51:43,000 Let me just, let me consult with the clerk so I 2780 03:51:43,000 --> 03:52:15,410 wanna be, 2781 03:52:15,410 --> 03:52:16,660 yeah, so the part that we've decided 2782 03:52:16,660 --> 03:52:19,140 is that we'd have to have reconsideration on 2783 03:52:19,140 --> 03:52:24,470 is extending the loan deferral period. 2784 03:52:25,190 --> 03:52:27,540 that the part that we could still take action on 2785 03:52:27,540 --> 03:52:28,520 is pausing the program. 2786 03:52:28,520 --> 03:52:30,650 So you're 100% right. 2787 03:52:30,650 --> 03:52:32,140 We were not taking an action on that. 2788 03:52:32,140 --> 03:52:34,620 We could pause the program as an alternate way 2789 03:52:34,620 --> 03:52:36,120 to pay for it in the future. 2790 03:52:36,120 --> 03:52:39,150 And that wouldn't be contrary, in my opinion. 2791 03:52:39,150 --> 03:52:39,970 - Thank you. 2792 03:52:39,970 --> 03:52:41,930 I'm hoping that helps get consensus here 2793 03:52:41,930 --> 03:52:43,960 because what we're agreeing to, 2794 03:52:43,960 --> 03:52:47,190 well, the motion that we're gonna vote on in a 2795 03:52:47,190 --> 03:52:47,480 bit 2796 03:52:47,480 --> 03:52:50,030 is to agree to provide the relief 2797 03:52:50,030 --> 03:52:51,900 of the deferral of the loan payments. 2798 03:52:51,900 --> 03:52:55,290 This amendment, what came out of planning was 2799 03:52:55,290 --> 03:52:56,790 we passed the motion that said 2800 03:52:56,790 --> 03:52:58,510 we were gonna extend the deferral of the loan 2801 03:52:58,510 --> 03:52:58,880 payments 2802 03:52:58,880 --> 03:52:59,700 for 18 months. 2803 03:52:59,700 --> 03:53:01,010 That passed. 2804 03:53:01,010 --> 03:53:04,770 Staff cautioned us that we had a funding issue. 2805 03:53:04,770 --> 03:53:05,980 That's what was before us. 2806 03:53:05,980 --> 03:53:09,040 What came from city staff gave us two options. 2807 03:53:09,040 --> 03:53:11,240 To fund the deferral of the loan payments, 2808 03:53:11,240 --> 03:53:14,650 we could either a pause any new loans for 18 2809 03:53:14,650 --> 03:53:14,910 months, 2810 03:53:14,910 --> 03:53:17,290 which means nobody else gets the facade 2811 03:53:17,290 --> 03:53:18,720 or building code loan, 2812 03:53:18,720 --> 03:53:22,400 which to me hinders our economic development. 2813 03:53:22,400 --> 03:53:24,720 The other option was to take money from the 2814 03:53:24,720 --> 03:53:25,730 reserve fund. 2815 03:53:25,730 --> 03:53:29,980 the Economic Development Service at 1.15 million. 2816 03:53:29,980 --> 03:53:31,980 So that's my motion here. 2817 03:53:31,980 --> 03:53:34,370 I just wanna put it out there that if you support 2818 03:53:34,370 --> 03:53:34,720 this, 2819 03:53:34,720 --> 03:53:37,060 we're not closing the door to the other option 2820 03:53:37,060 --> 03:53:39,120 that staff presented and at the time 2821 03:53:39,120 --> 03:53:41,980 that we're making our downtown strategy decisions 2822 03:53:41,980 --> 03:53:42,080 , 2823 03:53:42,000 --> 03:53:43,790 that door remains open, 2824 03:53:43,790 --> 03:53:45,960 that council could choose it at that time. 2825 03:53:45,960 --> 03:53:49,090 So I'm hoping that eases any concern 2826 03:53:49,090 --> 03:53:50,400 that my colleagues might have 2827 03:53:50,400 --> 03:53:53,370 around supporting this motion now, 2828 03:53:53,370 --> 03:53:58,770 supporting this amended amendment now. 2829 03:53:58,770 --> 03:54:01,240 - Council approval. 2830 03:54:01,240 --> 03:54:02,060 - Thank you. 2831 03:54:02,060 --> 03:54:03,780 So what the mayor just said a few minutes ago 2832 03:54:03,780 --> 03:54:05,790 just confirms it that really we got nothing to 2833 03:54:05,790 --> 03:54:06,010 lose 2834 03:54:06,010 --> 03:54:08,340 potentially to, we got nothing to lose 2835 03:54:08,340 --> 03:54:09,140 potentially to gain. 2836 03:54:09,140 --> 03:54:10,120 I just want to stay, by the way, 2837 03:54:10,120 --> 03:54:11,710 I just want to reiterate, I know I heard 2838 03:54:11,710 --> 03:54:12,910 somewhere 1.5, 2839 03:54:12,910 --> 03:54:15,660 some people mentioned it's actually 1.15, 2840 03:54:15,660 --> 03:54:17,250 just to clarify that part. 2841 03:54:17,250 --> 03:54:18,290 But I just want to like, 2842 03:54:18,290 --> 03:54:20,130 and I totally understand that we have the plans 2843 03:54:20,130 --> 03:54:20,680 coming back 2844 03:54:20,680 --> 03:54:23,880 to us the downtown, the economic plan for the 2845 03:54:23,880 --> 03:54:24,670 entire city 2846 03:54:24,670 --> 03:54:27,020 and yes, that could be for quick starts. 2847 03:54:27,020 --> 03:54:28,300 As the staff will have mentioned, 2848 03:54:28,300 --> 03:54:30,170 any big stuff is going to go through multi-year 2849 03:54:30,170 --> 03:54:34,300 budget anyways, they reiterate it, but everyone 2850 03:54:34,300 --> 03:54:37,020 who's been in business, they know that retention 2851 03:54:37,020 --> 03:54:39,870 is much better, much easier, much cheaper than 2852 03:54:39,870 --> 03:54:40,850 acquisition. 2853 03:54:40,850 --> 03:54:43,790 And this is really a potential for retention. 2854 03:54:43,790 --> 03:54:46,220 These are the loyal businesses that have been 2855 03:54:46,220 --> 03:54:48,350 here and they have delivered for us. 2856 03:54:48,350 --> 03:54:51,300 And if there is a need, I believe we strongly 2857 03:54:51,300 --> 03:54:52,530 need to be for them. 2858 03:54:52,530 --> 03:54:55,510 And actually we even have the letter from both B 2859 03:54:55,510 --> 03:54:58,290 IA's that are 100% involved in this, 2860 03:54:58,290 --> 03:55:00,030 and they are talking to the members on daily 2861 03:55:00,030 --> 03:55:00,740 basis. 2862 03:55:00,740 --> 03:55:02,800 They are very much supportive of this to continue 2863 03:55:02,800 --> 03:55:02,900 , 2864 03:55:02,880 --> 03:55:05,960 not just to defer the payments, 2865 03:55:05,960 --> 03:55:08,620 but also to continue because the need is there. 2866 03:55:08,620 --> 03:55:11,750 So again, especially what was said now in last 2867 03:55:11,750 --> 03:55:12,700 few minutes, 2868 03:55:12,700 --> 03:55:15,200 I really hope we can have a clear support 2869 03:55:15,200 --> 03:55:18,920 for this, for the amendment, then for the full 2870 03:55:18,920 --> 03:55:19,500 motion. 2871 03:55:19,500 --> 03:55:21,580 Let's move to another point on the agenda. 2872 03:55:21,580 --> 03:55:25,950 Thank you. 2873 03:55:25,950 --> 03:55:29,020 - Any other speakers on the amended amendment? 2874 03:55:29,020 --> 03:55:33,200 You've already spoken to the amended amendment. 2875 03:55:33,200 --> 03:55:51,720 Okay, we're gonna open that for voting. 2876 03:55:51,720 --> 03:55:55,110 those in the vote motion carries 11 to 2. 2877 03:55:55,110 --> 03:55:56,830 - Okay, now the main motion as amended. 2878 03:55:56,830 --> 03:55:59,360 Councilor Stevenson's still willing to move that 2879 03:55:59,360 --> 03:56:01,620 and Council approval's still willing to second. 2880 03:56:01,620 --> 03:56:04,910 Okay, great, we'll have debate on the as amended 2881 03:56:04,910 --> 03:56:06,470 main motion, no. 2882 03:56:06,470 --> 03:56:08,100 Go ahead, Councilor Ferra. 2883 03:56:08,100 --> 03:56:09,060 - Thank you, Mayor. 2884 03:56:09,060 --> 03:56:12,990 So I can't support the motion as it is. 2885 03:56:12,990 --> 03:56:15,130 Just because there's still that concern 2886 03:56:15,130 --> 03:56:17,440 with the draw from the economic development 2887 03:56:17,440 --> 03:56:17,750 reserve fund. 2888 03:56:17,750 --> 03:56:20,100 There's some questions that I was writing down. 2889 03:56:20,100 --> 03:56:23,300 Like if we were to come back in June, 2890 03:56:23,300 --> 03:56:26,190 after we get the downtown plan and the active 2891 03:56:26,190 --> 03:56:26,550 development 2892 03:56:26,550 --> 03:56:30,010 strategy and say, OK, we know how much is this 2893 03:56:30,010 --> 03:56:30,520 going to cost. 2894 03:56:30,520 --> 03:56:32,030 We know this is going to draw on the active 2895 03:56:32,030 --> 03:56:32,740 reserve fund. 2896 03:56:32,740 --> 03:56:35,050 We don't have enough money now because we drew it 2897 03:56:35,050 --> 03:56:35,660 from here. 2898 03:56:35,660 --> 03:56:37,660 And then we can pause this. 2899 03:56:37,660 --> 03:56:42,480 My original question about a referral and asking, 2900 03:56:42,480 --> 03:56:44,840 do we need to make a decision now? 2901 03:56:44,840 --> 03:56:46,880 Because staff have to do the work, 2902 03:56:46,880 --> 03:56:49,170 have to identify the property, send out the mail 2903 03:56:49,170 --> 03:56:49,630 outs, 2904 03:56:49,630 --> 03:56:51,630 get the properties to respond back. 2905 03:56:51,630 --> 03:56:54,510 How will that impact that at that point? 2906 03:56:54,510 --> 03:56:57,460 like should we not make a deferral now for the 2907 03:56:57,460 --> 03:56:57,840 decision 2908 03:56:57,840 --> 03:57:00,080 and wait until we get it back? 2909 03:57:00,080 --> 03:57:01,760 Because I feel like if we were to come back 2910 03:57:01,760 --> 03:57:03,570 and make that decision in June, 2911 03:57:03,570 --> 03:57:06,020 we'll be even more hard pressed to do that work, 2912 03:57:06,020 --> 03:57:08,560 that administrative work. 2913 03:57:08,560 --> 03:57:10,670 - So I'm not gonna have a staff answer to, 2914 03:57:10,670 --> 03:57:13,540 should we question what you said? 2915 03:57:13,540 --> 03:57:16,250 Let me just start to articulate what was 2916 03:57:16,250 --> 03:57:18,280 mentioned before 2917 03:57:18,280 --> 03:57:20,800 and that is the thing that we are deciding today 2918 03:57:20,800 --> 03:57:25,350 is essentially loan payments don't have to happen 2919 03:57:25,350 --> 03:57:29,120 until March of 2028, but we're not deciding 2920 03:57:29,120 --> 03:57:30,540 whether or not we paused the program 2921 03:57:30,540 --> 03:57:31,960 at some point for new intakes, 2922 03:57:31,960 --> 03:57:34,930 but we've essentially backfilled the CIP program 2923 03:57:34,930 --> 03:57:37,840 to prepare for that for new loans being issued. 2924 03:57:37,840 --> 03:57:41,580 So if we paused the program in the future, 2925 03:57:41,580 --> 03:57:43,900 there would be an excess of funds of the CIP 2926 03:57:43,900 --> 03:57:44,600 reserve fund 2927 03:57:44,600 --> 03:57:46,420 that perhaps could reallocate it to other, 2928 03:57:46,420 --> 03:57:47,770 be other projects, that would be a future 2929 03:57:47,770 --> 03:57:49,120 decision of council. 2930 03:57:49,120 --> 03:57:52,180 So, but I don't want our staff to answer should 2931 03:57:52,180 --> 03:57:53,400 we do this 2932 03:57:53,400 --> 03:57:54,960 or that, these are the options before us. 2933 03:57:54,960 --> 03:57:58,120 there's not a right answer, these are pathways 2934 03:57:58,120 --> 03:57:59,900 that we can pursue. 2935 03:57:59,900 --> 03:58:03,710 - Could I, I guess let's confirm, 2936 03:58:03,710 --> 03:58:05,070 just kind of reduce it down to like an 2937 03:58:05,070 --> 03:58:06,490 administrative process. 2938 03:58:06,490 --> 03:58:10,860 Like would staff have a greater difficulty 2939 03:58:10,860 --> 03:58:13,410 in I guess processing this work and sending out 2940 03:58:13,410 --> 03:58:14,360 the mailouts 2941 03:58:14,360 --> 03:58:19,690 if we were to reverse course in June? 2942 03:58:19,690 --> 03:58:25,310 - So if we're making a decision to cause the 2943 03:58:25,310 --> 03:58:26,540 repayments, 2944 03:58:26,540 --> 03:58:28,970 we're not changing that, we decided that today, 2945 03:58:28,970 --> 03:58:30,670 there is nothing on the repayment side 2946 03:58:30,670 --> 03:58:32,620 that they need to provide notices for. 2947 03:58:32,620 --> 03:58:34,680 Those notices will be given. 2948 03:58:34,680 --> 03:58:36,660 The work would be the advertising 2949 03:58:36,660 --> 03:58:39,230 of the existing program, which could take new 2950 03:58:39,230 --> 03:58:39,950 intakes, 2951 03:58:39,950 --> 03:58:41,580 and then would not be taking new intakes 2952 03:58:41,580 --> 03:58:43,060 at some point if we paused it. 2953 03:58:43,060 --> 03:58:45,640 So I don't, like our staff can answer, 2954 03:58:45,640 --> 03:58:47,410 but essentially there isn't any work 2955 03:58:47,410 --> 03:58:50,960 after you've done the initial notifications on 2956 03:58:50,960 --> 03:58:54,240 that you don't have to pay until March of 2028, 2957 03:58:54,240 --> 03:58:56,410 and you've got to tell us that in writing. 2958 03:58:57,990 --> 03:59:01,020 But you can comment on the administrative work of 2959 03:59:01,020 --> 03:59:02,010 advertising 2960 03:59:02,010 --> 03:59:09,060 if the program was paused for new intakes. 2961 03:59:09,060 --> 03:59:11,390 - Through your worship, so as far as the 2962 03:59:11,390 --> 03:59:11,690 advertising, 2963 03:59:11,690 --> 03:59:13,910 that's something that's an ongoing thing 2964 03:59:13,910 --> 03:59:14,810 that we're always doing. 2965 03:59:14,810 --> 03:59:16,540 So that's not a huge delimiter. 2966 03:59:16,540 --> 03:59:19,280 Usually we would provide about 60 days in advance 2967 03:59:19,280 --> 03:59:22,340 and notice to say that you're a fee be required. 2968 03:59:22,340 --> 03:59:23,930 So that's really the only other timeframe 2969 03:59:23,930 --> 03:59:27,610 that's involved at this point. 2970 03:59:27,610 --> 03:59:28,690 - Councillor Ferrer. 2971 03:59:28,690 --> 03:59:29,960 - Okay, thanks. 2972 03:59:29,960 --> 03:59:34,520 Can staff tell me what the uptake was for both 2973 03:59:34,520 --> 03:59:37,310 programs in this year compared to last year. Do 2974 03:59:37,310 --> 03:59:38,670 you have those numbers? 2975 03:59:38,670 --> 03:59:44,230 Mr. Mathers 2976 03:59:44,230 --> 03:59:45,930 Through your worship. I don't have those numbers 2977 03:59:45,930 --> 03:59:53,340 at this time. Sorry. Go ahead. Hey, thanks. I 2978 03:59:53,340 --> 03:59:53,800 have the numbers 2979 03:59:53,800 --> 03:59:57,110 I don't know mr. McCauley's online, but the 2980 03:59:57,110 --> 03:59:59,840 numbers that he gave to me was in 2026 for the 2981 03:59:59,840 --> 04:00:01,610 facade improvement loan 2982 04:00:01,610 --> 04:00:03,520 We've only had one applicant 2983 04:00:04,420 --> 04:00:08,420 Look to get that loan with comparison in 2025. 2984 04:00:08,420 --> 04:00:11,100 There was five and then for the upgrade to 2985 04:00:11,100 --> 04:00:12,770 building code loan program 2986 04:00:12,770 --> 04:00:16,130 We had two applicants in 2026 and last year was 2987 04:00:16,130 --> 04:00:16,960 five as well 2988 04:00:16,960 --> 04:00:20,640 I like I still have the concern of drawing from 2989 04:00:20,640 --> 04:00:22,470 the economic development reserve fund 2990 04:00:22,470 --> 04:00:26,520 I would much prefer to just pause the issuance of 2991 04:00:26,520 --> 04:00:29,640 these new of these two CIPs moving forward 2992 04:00:29,640 --> 04:00:30,230 considering 2993 04:00:30,230 --> 04:00:32,540 We have the very low uptake so we don't have that 2994 04:00:32,540 --> 04:00:34,270 impact on the active reserve fund 2995 04:00:34,270 --> 04:00:39,230 And especially my concern is again going back to 2996 04:00:39,230 --> 04:00:39,470 you know 2997 04:00:39,470 --> 04:00:41,010 I'm worried that we're not gonna have enough 2998 04:00:41,010 --> 04:00:42,790 money depending on some of the actions coming out 2999 04:00:42,790 --> 04:00:44,630 of those two plans coming forward if we 3000 04:00:44,630 --> 04:00:46,620 Could defer or refer the motion 3001 04:00:46,620 --> 04:00:49,190 Until we can make that decision after especially 3002 04:00:49,190 --> 04:00:51,540 if there's a discussion about potentially 3003 04:00:51,540 --> 04:00:53,290 flipping course once we find out 3004 04:00:53,290 --> 04:00:56,340 That would be good. Can I move a motion to refer? 3005 04:00:56,340 --> 04:00:58,940 Yeah, motion to refer as our seconder for a 3006 04:00:58,940 --> 04:01:01,650 referral this Councilor Trossa. Okay, we're on a 3007 04:01:01,650 --> 04:01:02,120 motion to refer 3008 04:01:02,120 --> 04:01:03,990 or do you want to provide some rationale for that 3009 04:01:03,990 --> 04:01:04,190 ? 3010 04:01:04,190 --> 04:01:05,620 - Yeah, the rationale is exactly what I was 3011 04:01:05,620 --> 04:01:06,020 saying. 3012 04:01:06,020 --> 04:01:07,650 I think we should wait until we know 3013 04:01:07,650 --> 04:01:09,760 what those two plans are going to have in them 3014 04:01:09,760 --> 04:01:11,110 before we make a decision here, 3015 04:01:11,110 --> 04:01:13,000 especially one that could directly impact those 3016 04:01:13,000 --> 04:01:13,620 two plans 3017 04:01:13,620 --> 04:01:16,370 and any type of interim funding actions 3018 04:01:16,370 --> 04:01:17,200 that would come through. 3019 04:01:17,200 --> 04:01:21,160 So it would be to defer the decision, 3020 04:01:21,160 --> 04:01:24,810 this decision, until we find out what's going on 3021 04:01:24,810 --> 04:01:27,330 with those two plans. 3022 04:01:27,330 --> 04:01:29,420 - Okay, on the referral on the other speakers. 3023 04:01:29,420 --> 04:01:34,780 Go ahead, Councilor Raman and then Councilor Tro 3024 04:01:34,780 --> 04:01:34,960 ssa. 3025 04:01:34,960 --> 04:01:36,990 - Thank you, and through you on the motion to 3026 04:01:36,990 --> 04:01:37,170 refer, 3027 04:01:37,170 --> 04:01:41,280 can I use my, I'd like to put the question at 3028 04:01:41,280 --> 04:01:47,920 this point? 3029 04:01:47,920 --> 04:01:49,240 - Yeah, just give me one second, I think you can, 3030 04:01:49,240 --> 04:01:51,700 but I wanna double check, 3031 04:01:51,700 --> 04:01:54,730 'cause people will ask me about it. 3032 04:01:54,730 --> 04:01:57,210 - Chair, there's a lot of side talk right now. 3033 04:01:57,210 --> 04:02:00,670 I'm hoping that you can control the room. 3034 04:02:00,670 --> 04:02:02,580 - Yeah, and I'm happy to ask Councillors, 3035 04:02:02,580 --> 04:02:04,890 well, I'm doing this to not be having 3036 04:02:04,890 --> 04:02:05,270 conversation 3037 04:02:05,270 --> 04:02:07,490 with yourself that our colleagues will, 3038 04:02:07,490 --> 04:02:08,870 they're disruptive 'cause I need to make 3039 04:02:08,870 --> 04:03:05,800 just a quick ruling on to put the motion. 3040 04:03:05,800 --> 04:03:07,610 Okay, sorry I had to take a moment for that. 3041 04:03:07,610 --> 04:03:11,820 There is a piece here that I'm gonna make clear 3042 04:03:11,820 --> 04:03:12,410 on my ruling. 3043 04:03:12,410 --> 04:03:14,770 So I'm gonna say you can put the question, 3044 04:03:14,770 --> 04:03:17,070 'cause I'm gonna say Section G does not apply to 3045 04:03:17,070 --> 04:03:18,130 a referral. 3046 04:03:18,130 --> 04:03:19,410 If you were putting the question on the main 3047 04:03:19,410 --> 04:03:19,670 motion, 3048 04:03:19,670 --> 04:03:20,570 I would say it would apply, 3049 04:03:20,570 --> 04:03:22,100 'cause it's an expenditure of over a million, 3050 04:03:22,100 --> 04:03:25,920 but the referral does not actually authorize 3051 04:03:25,920 --> 04:03:27,180 an expenditure by the municipality. 3052 04:03:27,180 --> 04:03:29,670 So you've met all of the pieces to put the 3053 04:03:29,670 --> 04:03:30,300 question. 3054 04:03:30,300 --> 04:03:33,310 So the Councillors ask for the question to be put 3055 04:03:33,310 --> 04:03:38,060 . 3056 04:03:38,060 --> 04:03:40,490 This is, can't be amended, can't be debated. 3057 04:03:40,490 --> 04:03:42,770 we just move to voting on, put the question, 3058 04:03:42,770 --> 04:03:43,630 which will close debate, 3059 04:03:43,630 --> 04:03:44,730 and then we'll immediately proceed 3060 04:03:44,730 --> 04:03:57,530 to vote on the referral. 3061 04:03:57,530 --> 04:04:00,160 So this requires a two thirds vote to put the 3062 04:04:00,160 --> 04:04:00,590 question, 3063 04:04:00,590 --> 04:04:04,530 and the way it's worded is the question shall now 3064 04:04:04,530 --> 04:04:04,960 be put, 3065 04:04:04,960 --> 04:04:07,080 which is means we're gonna, if you vote yes, 3066 04:04:07,080 --> 04:04:08,840 we're proceeding immediately to a vote on the 3067 04:04:08,840 --> 04:04:10,050 referral, okay? 3068 04:04:10,050 --> 04:04:52,770 So we'll open that for voting. 3069 04:04:52,770 --> 04:04:56,920 - And closing the vote, motion carries two thirds 3070 04:04:56,920 --> 04:04:57,170 , 3071 04:04:57,170 --> 04:04:59,280 and to three. 3072 04:04:59,280 --> 04:05:01,310 - Okay, so that means we'll immediately proceed 3073 04:05:01,310 --> 04:05:05,400 to a vote on the referral, Councillor Ferrer's 3074 04:05:05,400 --> 04:05:06,960 referral, 3075 04:05:06,960 --> 04:05:32,640 so we're gonna open that for voting. 3076 04:05:32,640 --> 04:05:52,690 - Opposing the vote, motion fails, three to 10. 3077 04:05:52,690 --> 04:05:54,190 - On the main motion, I have for Councillor McAll 3078 04:05:54,190 --> 04:05:56,910 ister next. 3079 04:05:56,910 --> 04:05:58,610 - Thank you to the Mayor for God. 3080 04:05:58,610 --> 04:05:59,590 It's been a while, sir. 3081 04:05:59,590 --> 04:06:01,890 Thank you for giving the chance to speak to this 3082 04:06:01,890 --> 04:06:02,340 item. 3083 04:06:02,340 --> 04:06:03,240 I was just waiting for everything 3084 04:06:03,240 --> 04:06:05,240 to kinda work its way through the system. 3085 04:06:05,240 --> 04:06:09,030 I know in terms of what Councillor Ferrer said, 3086 04:06:09,030 --> 04:06:10,980 in terms of what he views as the uptick. 3087 04:06:10,980 --> 04:06:14,370 I would still say from an area that has a CIP, 3088 04:06:14,370 --> 04:06:16,080 There is still a lot of benefit to this program. 3089 04:06:16,080 --> 04:06:17,990 There are businesses that are on it 3090 04:06:17,990 --> 04:06:20,180 and would definitely appreciate the deferral. 3091 04:06:20,180 --> 04:06:22,170 Apologies that Hamilton Road BIA couldn't submit 3092 04:06:22,170 --> 04:06:22,530 a letter. 3093 04:06:22,530 --> 04:06:23,640 I'm sure they would have as well, 3094 04:06:23,640 --> 04:06:26,550 but they got other things to deal with right now. 3095 04:06:26,550 --> 04:06:29,250 I would say there's a lot of value in these 3096 04:06:29,250 --> 04:06:30,020 programs. 3097 04:06:30,020 --> 04:06:31,920 As an area where often, unfortunately, 3098 04:06:31,920 --> 04:06:33,630 I have to resort to demolition. 3099 04:06:33,630 --> 04:06:37,680 I think having these options available in areas 3100 04:06:37,680 --> 04:06:39,590 that are really struggling is very important. 3101 04:06:39,590 --> 04:06:44,200 And I would say from my experience with 3102 04:06:44,200 --> 04:06:44,870 discussions, 3103 04:06:44,870 --> 04:06:46,550 with these programs specifically. 3104 04:06:46,550 --> 04:06:49,330 I think we could do a better job advertising them 3105 04:06:49,330 --> 04:06:49,530 . 3106 04:06:49,530 --> 04:06:51,460 I take the opportunity whenever it's presented to 3107 04:06:51,460 --> 04:06:51,640 me 3108 04:06:51,640 --> 04:06:53,790 to bring this up, especially in buildings 3109 04:06:53,790 --> 04:06:55,790 where they could have tenants, 3110 04:06:55,790 --> 04:06:57,220 they could do the facade improvements, 3111 04:06:57,220 --> 04:06:59,910 upgrades of the building as well. 3112 04:06:59,910 --> 04:07:02,040 These are important things, especially in areas 3113 04:07:02,040 --> 04:07:04,850 where we've got older buildings that really need 3114 04:07:04,850 --> 04:07:05,680 the work. 3115 04:07:05,680 --> 04:07:07,770 So I would suggest to all my colleagues 3116 04:07:07,770 --> 04:07:11,450 when these discussions happen, if you've got a C 3117 04:07:11,450 --> 04:07:11,640 IP, 3118 04:07:11,640 --> 04:07:13,830 please absolutely put this forward. 3119 04:07:13,830 --> 04:07:16,150 appreciate what the Councillors put forward as 3120 04:07:16,150 --> 04:07:16,490 well 3121 04:07:16,490 --> 04:07:18,270 and all the discussion that happened today 3122 04:07:18,270 --> 04:07:20,980 and I will support this, thank you. 3123 04:07:20,980 --> 04:07:24,950 - Okay, any others on the main motion as amended? 3124 04:07:24,950 --> 04:07:26,330 Councillor Stevenson. 3125 04:07:26,330 --> 04:07:28,650 - Thank you, I just wanna quickly ask for support 3126 04:07:28,650 --> 04:07:28,870 again 3127 04:07:28,870 --> 04:07:31,370 on this, it shows Council's continued commitment 3128 04:07:31,370 --> 04:07:34,970 to this area and it allows, we want people 3129 04:07:34,970 --> 04:07:38,020 to get the facade loans and the building code 3130 04:07:38,020 --> 04:07:38,450 loans. 3131 04:07:38,450 --> 04:07:41,160 We want them to invest in our core area. 3132 04:07:41,160 --> 04:07:42,600 This is our way of doing it. 3133 04:07:42,600 --> 04:07:45,470 And again, as Councillor Prabble said retention 3134 04:07:45,470 --> 04:07:46,940 is easier, 3135 04:07:46,940 --> 04:07:49,020 cash flow is everything to businesses 3136 04:07:49,020 --> 04:07:51,530 and even $200 a month makes a difference. 3137 04:07:51,530 --> 04:07:52,960 Sending the signal that no, 3138 04:07:52,960 --> 04:07:56,390 we start to expect loan payments in September 3139 04:07:56,390 --> 04:07:58,310 when we haven't achieved the objectives 3140 04:07:58,310 --> 04:07:59,880 that we all want in this area, 3141 04:07:59,880 --> 04:08:02,410 I think would have very negative consequences. 3142 04:08:02,410 --> 04:08:04,290 So I really hope for your support. 3143 04:08:04,290 --> 04:08:07,080 And I will just say again to my colleagues who 3144 04:08:07,080 --> 04:08:08,280 have concern 3145 04:08:08,280 --> 04:08:11,280 that the door has not closed to options. 3146 04:08:11,280 --> 04:08:13,600 This is a support of the deferral of the loan 3147 04:08:13,600 --> 04:08:14,550 payments. 3148 04:08:14,550 --> 04:08:17,320 Cause of the loans is still available to this 3149 04:08:17,320 --> 04:08:18,360 council in June. 3150 04:08:18,360 --> 04:08:21,640 So I'm hoping we get as much support as we can on 3151 04:08:21,640 --> 04:08:21,880 this. 3152 04:08:21,880 --> 04:08:24,420 Thank you. 3153 04:08:24,420 --> 04:08:26,820 - Okay, any others on the as amended main motion? 3154 04:08:26,820 --> 04:08:33,840 Go ahead, Councilor Troso. 3155 04:08:33,840 --> 04:08:35,160 - May I ask before I start? 3156 04:08:35,160 --> 04:08:38,120 What time did we start this matter? 3157 04:08:38,120 --> 04:08:38,930 - I don't know. 3158 04:08:38,930 --> 04:08:40,060 And that's just gonna take time to look up. 3159 04:08:40,060 --> 04:08:41,480 So do you want me to do that? 3160 04:08:41,480 --> 04:08:42,290 - No, it's all right. 3161 04:08:42,290 --> 04:08:43,110 Let's proceed then. 3162 04:08:43,110 --> 04:08:45,580 - We have a rhetorical question. 3163 04:08:45,580 --> 04:08:48,420 I'm gonna vote no on this. 3164 04:08:48,420 --> 04:08:52,220 And gee, we were doing a lot of committee work 3165 04:08:52,220 --> 04:08:53,500 here today. 3166 04:08:53,500 --> 04:08:55,200 And I think that when people bring forward 3167 04:08:55,200 --> 04:08:56,200 emotion, 3168 04:08:56,200 --> 04:08:58,470 especially if it deals with a couple of different 3169 04:08:58,470 --> 04:08:59,580 neighborhoods, 3170 04:08:59,580 --> 04:09:02,550 it would really be great if people could sort of 3171 04:09:02,550 --> 04:09:03,010 consult 3172 04:09:03,010 --> 04:09:05,890 with each other before coming to council. 3173 04:09:05,890 --> 04:09:08,380 And I just, I really feel as if we've lost the 3174 04:09:08,380 --> 04:09:09,540 audience, 3175 04:09:09,540 --> 04:09:12,270 people have come here to hear about policy 3176 04:09:12,270 --> 04:09:12,570 matters 3177 04:09:12,570 --> 04:09:14,090 that are on the agenda. 3178 04:09:14,090 --> 04:09:16,220 And here we are, here we are. 3179 04:09:16,220 --> 04:09:17,950 It's been over an hour, I'm not sure how long it 3180 04:09:17,950 --> 04:09:18,350 's been. 3181 04:09:18,350 --> 04:09:20,370 But I just think we have to be better 3182 04:09:20,370 --> 04:09:23,230 about not doing committee work at the council 3183 04:09:23,230 --> 04:09:23,740 table. 3184 04:09:23,740 --> 04:09:25,720 So I'm just gonna vote no on this. 3185 04:09:25,720 --> 04:09:29,250 And I'm sorry it wasn't referred, but that was 3186 04:09:29,250 --> 04:09:30,210 the vote. 3187 04:09:30,210 --> 04:09:32,870 So there we are. 3188 04:09:32,870 --> 04:09:36,290 Thank you. 3189 04:09:36,290 --> 04:09:40,580 - Okay, other speakers. 3190 04:09:40,580 --> 04:09:42,970 Okay, we're gonna open the as amended, 3191 04:09:42,970 --> 04:09:55,870 main motion for voting. 3192 04:09:55,870 --> 04:10:03,700 - Opposing the vote, motion carries 11 to two. 3193 04:10:03,700 --> 04:10:06,150 - Listen, I'm going to ask colleagues 3194 04:10:06,150 --> 04:10:08,830 if we could take a 10 to 15 minute break. 3195 04:10:08,830 --> 04:10:11,390 We have staff in the room as well as ourselves. 3196 04:10:11,390 --> 04:10:13,530 We've been doing this for four hours. 3197 04:10:13,530 --> 04:10:15,100 I get that the public is waiting for matters, 3198 04:10:15,100 --> 04:10:17,440 but we've got to give everyone a chance to do 3199 04:10:17,440 --> 04:10:17,650 that. 3200 04:10:17,650 --> 04:10:20,330 So I don't know if someone can move at 10. 3201 04:10:20,330 --> 04:10:22,290 We'll say, say I want to do 10. 3202 04:10:22,290 --> 04:10:24,590 All right, 10, 10 minute break by moved by Coun 3203 04:10:24,590 --> 04:10:25,050 cillor Hopkins, 3204 04:10:25,050 --> 04:10:26,310 seconded by Councillor Van Mereberg, 3205 04:10:26,310 --> 04:10:27,140 and we'll do that by hand. 3206 04:10:27,140 --> 04:10:29,550 All those in favor of a 10 minute break. 3207 04:10:29,550 --> 04:10:32,150 Any opposed? 3208 04:10:32,150 --> 04:24:34,970 - Motion carries. - Okay. 3209 04:24:34,970 --> 04:24:36,520 Okay, thanks, please be seated. 3210 04:24:36,520 --> 04:24:41,290 Appreciate this short break. 3211 04:24:41,290 --> 04:24:42,520 We'll continue on with the agenda. 3212 04:24:42,520 --> 04:24:46,450 I'll go back to Councillor Layman. 3213 04:24:46,450 --> 04:24:47,630 - Thank you, Mayor. 3214 04:24:47,630 --> 04:24:48,810 Moving on to number 10. 3215 04:24:48,810 --> 04:24:51,420 This is regarding 63 Greenfield Drive, 3216 04:24:51,420 --> 04:24:55,950 Councillor Cudi requested this be pulled. 3217 04:24:55,950 --> 04:24:57,830 - Okay, thus is on the floor. 3218 04:24:57,830 --> 04:25:00,260 Councillor Cuddy. 3219 04:25:00,260 --> 04:25:03,030 - Thank you, worship and through you. 3220 04:25:03,030 --> 04:25:05,760 I have a motion and I'm presenting it on the 3221 04:25:05,760 --> 04:25:06,040 floor 3222 04:25:06,040 --> 04:25:10,720 for Councillor Palosa. 3223 04:25:10,720 --> 04:25:13,670 Shall I read the motion or is it on the board? 3224 04:25:13,670 --> 04:25:15,100 - Yes, it's not on the added agenda, 3225 04:25:15,100 --> 04:25:16,470 so I'm gonna need you to read it out. 3226 04:25:16,470 --> 04:25:17,570 - Okay, I will need to read it then. 3227 04:25:17,570 --> 04:25:21,520 Thank you. 3228 04:25:21,520 --> 04:25:22,900 Oh, you, I'm sorry. 3229 04:25:22,900 --> 04:25:24,690 - Sorry, could you read it if you have it there? 3230 04:25:24,690 --> 04:25:27,260 - Yes, I have it here. 3231 04:25:27,260 --> 04:25:29,380 Thank you. 3232 04:25:29,380 --> 04:25:31,190 It being further noted, the applicant requested 3233 04:25:31,190 --> 04:25:33,390 to consider the following design matters 3234 04:25:33,390 --> 04:25:35,590 through the development of the site. 3235 04:25:35,590 --> 04:25:37,430 Number one, six-foot privacy fencing 3236 04:25:37,430 --> 04:25:39,950 along the North Line, two non-transparent 3237 04:25:39,950 --> 04:25:40,520 materials 3238 04:25:40,520 --> 04:25:43,470 used on all north-facing second and third floor 3239 04:25:43,470 --> 04:25:44,760 balconies. 3240 04:25:44,760 --> 04:25:48,480 And number three, coniferous replacements for any 3241 04:25:48,480 --> 04:25:48,940 trees 3242 04:25:48,940 --> 04:25:51,300 damaged or removed along the North property line 3243 04:25:51,300 --> 04:25:53,730 to ensure year-round privacy. 3244 04:25:53,730 --> 04:25:55,250 - Sure, and I'll second that to get it on the 3245 04:25:55,250 --> 04:25:55,590 floor 3246 04:25:55,590 --> 04:25:56,640 so we can proceed. 3247 04:25:56,640 --> 04:25:59,300 Did you want to provide any rationale 3248 04:25:59,300 --> 04:26:01,150 or are you presenting on the CAF Council proposal 3249 04:26:01,150 --> 04:26:01,380 ? 3250 04:26:01,380 --> 04:26:02,370 - No, thank you. 3251 04:26:02,370 --> 04:26:03,910 Your worship, this is brought, 3252 04:26:03,910 --> 04:26:05,090 as I mentioned, this is brought forward 3253 04:26:05,090 --> 04:26:06,910 by Councillor Palazzo, it couldn't be with us 3254 04:26:06,910 --> 04:26:07,150 today, 3255 04:26:07,150 --> 04:26:08,530 and I think it's an excellent motion. 3256 04:26:08,530 --> 04:26:10,450 Thank you. 3257 04:26:10,450 --> 04:26:12,180 - Go ahead, Councillor Layman. 3258 04:26:12,180 --> 04:26:14,090 - I'll speak briefly to it. 3259 04:26:14,090 --> 04:26:16,950 Councillor Palazzo would like to get this as an 3260 04:26:16,950 --> 04:26:18,650 amendment. 3261 04:26:18,650 --> 04:26:19,920 Normally we'll go to site plan, 3262 04:26:19,920 --> 04:26:22,300 but site plan is not available option 3263 04:26:22,300 --> 04:26:26,080 on this particular development. 3264 04:26:26,080 --> 04:26:28,700 - Okay, any questions or comments on these 3265 04:26:28,700 --> 04:26:29,520 matters? 3266 04:26:29,520 --> 04:26:31,240 No? Okay. 3267 04:26:31,240 --> 04:26:44,530 Seeing none, we'll open that for voting. 3268 04:26:44,530 --> 04:26:47,180 - Closing the vote, motion carries 13 to zero. 3269 04:26:47,180 --> 04:26:49,270 - Okay, and now I need the motion as amended, 3270 04:26:49,270 --> 04:26:50,910 Councillor Layman, you're willing to move that. 3271 04:26:50,910 --> 04:26:53,820 - Okay, Councillor Cudi willing to second it. 3272 04:26:53,820 --> 04:26:55,520 Okay, that's moved and seconded. 3273 04:26:55,520 --> 04:26:57,880 This is the same staff report with the pieces 3274 04:26:57,880 --> 04:26:58,820 we just demanded into it. 3275 04:26:58,820 --> 04:27:08,100 Any discussion on that? 3276 04:27:08,100 --> 04:27:21,970 Right up in just a moment. 3277 04:27:21,970 --> 04:27:43,700 Now we'll open that vote. 3278 04:27:43,700 --> 04:27:48,430 - Opposed in the vote motion carries 13-0. 3279 04:27:48,430 --> 04:27:49,260 - Councillor Layman. 3280 04:27:49,260 --> 04:27:50,690 - Thank you, moving on to number 11. 3281 04:27:50,690 --> 04:27:53,740 This is regarding 50 to 356. 3282 04:27:53,740 --> 04:27:56,150 When do Mayor, that was referred to PAC? 3283 04:27:56,150 --> 04:27:59,130 Councillor Trusso would ask this to be pulled. 3284 04:27:59,130 --> 04:28:02,280 - Okay, go ahead, Councillor Trusso. 3285 04:28:02,280 --> 04:28:05,320 - Yes, I may or may not through the chair 3286 04:28:05,320 --> 04:28:07,170 have an amendment depending on the answer to my 3287 04:28:07,170 --> 04:28:08,030 question. 3288 04:28:08,030 --> 04:28:12,660 So I might want to amend this to say we should 3289 04:28:12,660 --> 04:28:13,070 deny it 3290 04:28:13,070 --> 04:28:15,580 without prejudice so it could come back, 3291 04:28:15,580 --> 04:28:17,720 but if the motion's okay, as it is, 3292 04:28:17,720 --> 04:28:19,510 I won't make the amendment. 3293 04:28:19,510 --> 04:28:22,100 So my question is, do we run any risk 3294 04:28:22,100 --> 04:28:26,620 that this matter due to time be taken up on 3295 04:28:26,620 --> 04:28:27,530 appeal 3296 04:28:27,530 --> 04:28:38,480 before you're able to complete the request? 3297 04:28:38,480 --> 04:28:41,260 - Thank you, through your worship. 3298 04:28:41,260 --> 04:28:43,150 The matter, if it's referred back, 3299 04:28:43,150 --> 04:28:47,790 will not meet the statutory timelines. 3300 04:28:47,790 --> 04:28:49,600 it will not meet the statutory timelines 3301 04:28:49,600 --> 04:28:53,680 if we refer it back. 3302 04:28:53,680 --> 04:28:56,570 - In that case, given the intention, 3303 04:28:56,570 --> 04:29:02,410 there was a clear intention to try to 3304 04:29:02,410 --> 04:29:06,480 sort of get a better traffic study here 3305 04:29:06,480 --> 04:29:11,500 and also think about the effect on the hospital. 3306 04:29:11,500 --> 04:29:14,150 In your view, what would be the best way of us 3307 04:29:14,150 --> 04:29:17,890 doing that without risking, without taking undue 3308 04:29:17,890 --> 04:29:18,770 risks? 3309 04:29:18,770 --> 04:29:21,040 'Cause I'm inclined to support this, 3310 04:29:21,040 --> 04:29:23,770 but I would prefer to, 3311 04:29:23,770 --> 04:29:26,680 If that's going to just get us a trip to the, 3312 04:29:26,680 --> 04:29:28,560 to the, to the, to the appellate body, 3313 04:29:28,560 --> 04:29:31,190 I'd rather just deny it without prejudice 3314 04:29:31,190 --> 04:29:32,000 and have it come back. 3315 04:29:32,000 --> 04:29:35,740 And can you advise? 3316 04:29:35,740 --> 04:29:37,480 - Well, I, that'll put it. 3317 04:29:37,480 --> 04:29:40,590 I mean, I don't want you to speculate. 3318 04:29:40,590 --> 04:29:42,690 You can't possibly know if we refer it 3319 04:29:42,690 --> 04:29:44,260 whether the applicant would appeal or not, 3320 04:29:44,260 --> 04:29:46,280 but you can provide any context you can, 3321 04:29:46,280 --> 04:29:47,960 where we certainly can't hold you to that 3322 04:29:47,960 --> 04:29:53,740 on behalf of that third party. 3323 04:29:53,740 --> 04:29:55,160 - Thank you, through your worship. 3324 04:29:55,160 --> 04:29:57,920 The staff recommendation is in conformity 3325 04:29:57,920 --> 04:30:01,990 with the London Plan and staff supported the 3326 04:30:01,990 --> 04:30:02,950 application. 3327 04:30:02,950 --> 04:30:07,590 Now it was standing, a committee's decision to 3328 04:30:07,590 --> 04:30:08,960 refer back 3329 04:30:08,960 --> 04:30:11,740 that does cause delay in terms of meeting the 3330 04:30:11,740 --> 04:30:12,370 timelines. 3331 04:30:12,370 --> 04:30:15,110 So that does allow the applicant the opportunity 3332 04:30:15,110 --> 04:30:18,460 to appeal for a non-decision. 3333 04:30:18,460 --> 04:30:21,660 Having said that, there is no mechanism other 3334 04:30:21,660 --> 04:30:22,150 than that 3335 04:30:22,150 --> 04:30:26,040 to require the applicant to do anything else, 3336 04:30:26,040 --> 04:30:28,950 but to make a decision by council, 3337 04:30:28,950 --> 04:30:32,140 if council should choose to deny the application, 3338 04:30:32,140 --> 04:30:37,220 that the applicant could also appeal. 3339 04:30:37,220 --> 04:30:40,960 - Okay, well, I'm sort of at a loss here 3340 04:30:40,960 --> 04:30:45,470 because it's my strong belief that the matter 3341 04:30:45,470 --> 04:30:49,710 of the effect on EMS and the general traffic in 3342 04:30:49,710 --> 04:30:50,710 that corridor 3343 04:30:50,710 --> 04:30:53,940 is something that should have been dealt with 3344 04:30:53,940 --> 04:30:57,810 much more robustly in the application and it wasn 3345 04:30:57,810 --> 04:30:58,450 't. 3346 04:30:58,450 --> 04:31:00,880 So I would not be supporting the application at 3347 04:31:00,880 --> 04:31:02,420 this point. 3348 04:31:02,420 --> 04:31:06,840 I'm happy to have the application come back after 3349 04:31:06,840 --> 04:31:09,020 discussion with the EMS. 3350 04:31:09,020 --> 04:31:11,650 I think this is a very serious public safety 3351 04:31:11,650 --> 04:31:15,040 problem and being familiar with that strip 3352 04:31:15,040 --> 04:31:18,090 of land at the north part of the university and 3353 04:31:18,090 --> 04:31:20,830 the kind of traffic that we see at the 3354 04:31:20,830 --> 04:31:24,040 own wind the mirror, from Richmond going all the 3355 04:31:24,040 --> 04:31:26,510 way back, I just think that it could 3356 04:31:26,510 --> 04:31:29,510 could have a devastating effect if someone in 3357 04:31:29,510 --> 04:31:30,660 that area 3358 04:31:30,660 --> 04:31:33,220 needs to access EMS services. 3359 04:31:33,220 --> 04:31:38,320 Or if EMS services from a patient out of the area 3360 04:31:38,320 --> 04:31:40,930 needs to get to or fro from the hospital. 3361 04:31:40,930 --> 04:31:44,850 We need to be giving better consideration 3362 04:31:44,850 --> 04:31:47,980 to how these land use applications affect public 3363 04:31:47,980 --> 04:31:48,960 safety. 3364 04:31:48,960 --> 04:31:51,110 And I think we failed to do that. 3365 04:31:51,110 --> 04:31:53,400 And I was just so happy that so many, 3366 04:31:53,400 --> 04:31:55,660 I think very reasonable people came from the 3367 04:31:55,660 --> 04:31:56,400 neighborhood 3368 04:31:56,400 --> 04:31:58,290 to point out a lot of the concerns. 3369 04:31:58,290 --> 04:32:01,390 and I just want to once again support what they 3370 04:32:01,390 --> 04:32:01,860 did 3371 04:32:01,860 --> 04:32:06,180 and ask, I think I'm just going to support this 3372 04:32:06,180 --> 04:32:06,820 recommendation 3373 04:32:06,820 --> 04:32:12,000 and hope for the best, because I think in the end 3374 04:32:12,000 --> 04:32:12,100 , 3375 04:32:12,000 --> 04:32:15,200 the position we're taking about having more 3376 04:32:15,200 --> 04:32:15,850 regard 3377 04:32:15,850 --> 04:32:21,110 to emergency services is very reasonable. 3378 04:32:21,110 --> 04:32:22,960 Thank you. 3379 04:32:22,960 --> 04:32:27,140 - Any other speakers to this one? 3380 04:32:27,140 --> 04:32:48,780 Okay, seeing none, we'll open this for voting. 3381 04:32:48,780 --> 04:32:49,570 - Opposed in the vote. 3382 04:32:49,570 --> 04:32:52,950 Motion carries 12 to one. 3383 04:32:52,950 --> 04:32:53,980 - Councillor Lehman. 3384 04:32:53,980 --> 04:32:54,820 - Thank you. 3385 04:32:54,820 --> 04:32:59,270 Moving on to 13, it's regarding 845 to 875 3386 04:32:59,270 --> 04:32:59,800 commissioners, 3387 04:32:59,800 --> 04:33:02,190 Robert East, Councillor Hopkins requested this 3388 04:33:02,190 --> 04:33:06,850 to be called Councillor Hopkins. 3389 04:33:06,850 --> 04:33:09,010 - Yeah, thank you, Your Worship. 3390 04:33:09,010 --> 04:33:11,570 I've been struggling with this one all week. 3391 04:33:11,570 --> 04:33:15,410 It's, I'm still not sure where to go, 3392 04:33:15,410 --> 04:33:17,010 but I'm getting there. 3393 04:33:17,010 --> 04:33:23,110 You know, four apartment buildings, 3394 04:33:23,110 --> 04:33:27,910 right next to winning USA, 868 units go towards 3395 04:33:27,910 --> 04:33:31,210 housing agreement, which is great. The intens 3396 04:33:31,210 --> 04:33:37,310 ification is 275, which is pretty high. I was 3397 04:33:37,310 --> 04:33:37,440 pleased 3398 04:33:37,440 --> 04:33:41,140 to hear from the applicant that there will be no 3399 04:33:41,140 --> 04:33:44,070 development on the ESA and the extra 3400 04:33:44,070 --> 04:33:47,720 buffering around the development. I'm pleased to 3401 04:33:47,720 --> 04:33:50,230 hear that, but I'm still really stuck on 3402 04:33:50,230 --> 04:33:54,460 this one and I'm very supportive of the changes 3403 04:33:54,460 --> 04:33:58,020 of the 50% native species in 3404 04:33:58,020 --> 04:34:02,830 the recommendation and of course the bird 3405 04:34:02,830 --> 04:34:05,000 friendly using the bird friendly 3406 04:34:05,000 --> 04:34:08,820 policies. This is what I'm disappointed in though 3407 04:34:08,820 --> 04:34:13,440 is that we have removed a part 3408 04:34:13,440 --> 04:34:16,540 of the recommendation which allows the building 3409 04:34:16,540 --> 04:34:18,260 entrances are to be oriented 3410 04:34:18,260 --> 04:34:21,210 towards the public street with pedestrian 3411 04:34:21,210 --> 04:34:22,530 connections to commissioners 3412 04:34:22,530 --> 04:34:25,870 road east and consideration of a maximum floor 3413 04:34:25,870 --> 04:34:29,420 plate as well above the 8th story 3414 04:34:29,420 --> 04:34:33,260 to mitigate shadow and provide a slender tower 3415 04:34:33,260 --> 04:34:35,370 portion. That's not in that 3416 04:34:35,370 --> 04:34:38,820 recommendation. I think these are important 3417 04:34:38,820 --> 04:34:40,820 components of having this go 3418 04:34:40,820 --> 04:34:44,030 through. The other thing I just want to make a 3419 04:34:44,030 --> 04:34:47,320 comment on the updated EIS. I know 3420 04:34:47,320 --> 04:34:51,250 in the recommendation it refers to an updated EIS 3421 04:34:51,250 --> 04:34:55,540 . So it's in there. But I think we could have made 3422 04:34:55,540 --> 04:34:58,490 the recommendation a little bit stronger as we 3423 04:34:58,490 --> 04:35:02,320 develop and tend to supply around an ESA. So for 3424 04:35:02,320 --> 04:35:05,080 that those are just my comments and I won't be 3425 04:35:05,080 --> 04:35:11,460 supporting it. Other speakers, go ahead, 3426 04:35:11,460 --> 04:35:17,590 Councillor Troso. Again, through the chair, I 3427 04:35:17,590 --> 04:35:19,190 gave a lot of thought to some potential 3428 04:35:19,190 --> 04:35:20,080 amendments 3429 04:35:20,080 --> 04:35:25,510 but being mindful of people's time and the fact 3430 04:35:25,510 --> 04:35:29,040 that this was sort of discussed, I think, 3431 04:35:29,040 --> 04:35:32,610 at some length at the committee. I think I'm just 3432 04:35:32,610 --> 04:35:34,980 going to state my objections, at least some of 3433 04:35:34,980 --> 04:35:37,610 them, at least the ones I can get into five 3434 04:35:37,610 --> 04:35:40,680 minutes, about this project and then just say, 3435 04:35:40,680 --> 04:35:43,950 "I'm going to vote no." I am exceptionally 3436 04:35:43,950 --> 04:35:47,720 disappointed in the way this has come before us. 3437 04:35:47,720 --> 04:35:50,810 I think that there were some serious flaws in the 3438 04:35:50,810 --> 04:35:54,970 staff report, which I believe some of them were 3439 04:35:54,970 --> 04:36:00,340 addressed, but some of them were made worse. I'm 3440 04:36:00,340 --> 04:36:02,830 very concerned about the fact that there 3441 04:36:02,830 --> 04:36:06,880 is not a complete EIS. Apparently, others don't 3442 04:36:06,880 --> 04:36:09,800 share that concern. Not only is there 3443 04:36:09,800 --> 04:36:13,190 not a complete EIS, but there are some really 3444 04:36:13,190 --> 04:36:16,520 good recommendations in the EIS. Did you know 3445 04:36:16,520 --> 04:36:19,700 that there are actually 50 recommendations for 3446 04:36:19,700 --> 04:36:22,970 mitigation measures in the EIS? And I guess 3447 04:36:22,970 --> 04:36:25,270 I would ask without without going through each 50 3448 04:36:25,270 --> 04:36:27,130 , each of the 50, which I wouldn't have time 3449 04:36:27,130 --> 04:36:29,990 for it. To what extent are those 50 3450 04:36:29,990 --> 04:36:34,440 recommendations in the EIS, in complete as it was 3451 04:36:34,440 --> 04:36:35,050 , but in the 3452 04:36:35,050 --> 04:36:38,150 completed part of the EIS? To what extent are 3453 04:36:38,150 --> 04:36:41,810 those recommendations going to be incorporated 3454 04:36:41,810 --> 04:36:44,390 into the project? To what extent are they binding 3455 04:36:44,390 --> 04:36:46,950 , or are these just recommendations that the 3456 04:36:46,950 --> 04:36:54,040 developer can or cannot adopt? Go ahead. Thank 3457 04:36:54,040 --> 04:36:56,600 you. Through your worship, just like to clarify, 3458 04:36:56,600 --> 04:37:00,050 the EIS was complete enough to establish the zone 3459 04:37:00,050 --> 04:37:03,420 boundary, and that's why staff recommended 3460 04:37:03,420 --> 04:37:07,220 approval of this development. With respect to the 3461 04:37:07,220 --> 04:37:09,540 EIS recommendations, that's the consultant's 3462 04:37:09,540 --> 04:37:12,300 report prepared for the applicant that's shared 3463 04:37:12,300 --> 04:37:14,590 with staff, and while it may not be fully 3464 04:37:14,590 --> 04:37:15,060 accepted 3465 04:37:15,060 --> 04:37:18,000 yet, there's a second part to it. Those 3466 04:37:18,000 --> 04:37:21,340 recommended mitigative measures will be 3467 04:37:21,340 --> 04:37:22,600 incorporated either 3468 04:37:22,600 --> 04:37:25,490 on the site plan or in the development agreement 3469 04:37:25,490 --> 04:37:28,340 conditions and so that's how it finds their way. 3470 04:37:28,340 --> 04:37:32,440 The next step would be to refine the elements of 3471 04:37:32,440 --> 04:37:35,830 the EIS and that's the part that I believe that 3472 04:37:35,830 --> 04:37:38,380 the council is referring to that will find its 3473 04:37:38,380 --> 04:37:41,010 way on map five and that's part of a housekeeping 3474 04:37:41,010 --> 04:37:43,800 matter that staff would be dealing with in the 3475 04:37:43,800 --> 04:37:46,290 second stage around the site plan approval. 3476 04:37:46,290 --> 04:37:50,160 So thank you through the chair. I'm not to the 3477 04:37:50,160 --> 04:37:53,160 mayor. I'm not getting the kinds of assurances 3478 04:37:54,030 --> 04:37:59,230 that the substantive recommendations in the EIS 3479 04:37:59,230 --> 04:38:01,390 are actually going to be adopted. 3480 04:38:01,390 --> 04:38:02,690 They may be, they may not be, 3481 04:38:02,690 --> 04:38:05,780 and it's up to the site plan process. 3482 04:38:05,780 --> 04:38:08,220 As we know from our further discussion, 3483 04:38:08,220 --> 04:38:10,630 past discussions about the site plan, 3484 04:38:10,630 --> 04:38:13,310 we know that these are not binding conditions 3485 04:38:13,310 --> 04:38:17,000 as would be in the case of a holding provision 3486 04:38:17,000 --> 04:38:18,280 for example. 3487 04:38:18,280 --> 04:38:22,850 So I'm very concerned that some of the good work 3488 04:38:22,850 --> 04:38:25,900 that was done in the EIS, and I want to point to 3489 04:38:25,900 --> 04:38:28,050 with the fact that I think there was good 3490 04:38:28,050 --> 04:38:33,210 work done in the EIS. I'm concerned that that 3491 04:38:33,210 --> 04:38:37,850 good work may or may not, may or may not, 3492 04:38:37,850 --> 04:38:41,570 get incorporated into the final project. I'm also 3493 04:38:41,570 --> 04:38:43,470 very disappointed that at no point 3494 04:38:43,470 --> 04:38:46,800 was there any kind of discussion about, okay, you 3495 04:38:46,800 --> 04:38:50,310 've got three 14 story, well, three 14 3496 04:38:50,310 --> 04:38:53,760 or so story, high rises, along the main road and 3497 04:38:53,760 --> 04:38:58,510 you got one in back. Was there any discussion 3498 04:38:58,510 --> 04:39:02,500 about saying, okay, do the ones on the main road 3499 04:39:02,500 --> 04:39:05,140 but not the one in back? Was that ever 3500 04:39:05,140 --> 04:39:08,640 a serious discussion of negotiation between staff 3501 04:39:08,640 --> 04:39:10,700 and the applicant? 3502 04:39:10,700 --> 04:39:14,450 Go ahead. Thank you. Through you, Your Worship, 3503 04:39:14,450 --> 04:39:16,740 the development application that was submitted 3504 04:39:16,740 --> 04:39:19,550 showed four buildings and that's what staff had 3505 04:39:19,550 --> 04:39:21,970 reviewed and recommended approval. 3506 04:39:23,320 --> 04:39:25,660 That's a true sound thing. I'll take that if I 3507 04:39:25,660 --> 04:39:30,530 may take that as a no, no. I think that in many 3508 04:39:30,530 --> 04:39:35,480 in many ways, this application raises very 3509 04:39:35,480 --> 04:39:40,160 troubling issues about our relationship to to 3510 04:39:40,160 --> 04:39:44,170 open space and open space that is particularly 3511 04:39:44,170 --> 04:39:49,830 near and adjacent to sensitive areas, and I 3512 04:39:49,830 --> 04:39:51,780 understand that we have a lot of constraints in 3513 04:39:51,780 --> 04:39:53,780 terms of what we have to do because we don't want 3514 04:39:53,780 --> 04:39:57,470 to be taken back to the to the panel and lose and 3515 04:39:57,470 --> 04:39:57,570 lose. 3516 04:39:57,470 --> 04:40:02,860 but I just feel as if we need to do better. 3517 04:40:02,860 --> 04:40:05,770 This council needs to do better to protect the 3518 04:40:05,770 --> 04:40:06,730 environment. 3519 04:40:06,730 --> 04:40:08,370 This is a failure of policy, 3520 04:40:08,370 --> 04:40:11,860 and I'm certainly gonna be voting no on this 3521 04:40:11,860 --> 04:40:12,550 application. 3522 04:40:12,550 --> 04:40:15,870 And I would urge others to really consider voting 3523 04:40:15,870 --> 04:40:16,620 no. 3524 04:40:16,620 --> 04:40:20,930 Now, we could unfold a discussion that could last 3525 04:40:20,930 --> 04:40:21,030 , 3526 04:40:20,940 --> 04:40:23,970 oh, an hour or two, talking about amendments, 3527 04:40:23,970 --> 04:40:27,240 which might give rise to amendments to amendments 3528 04:40:27,240 --> 04:40:27,340 , 3529 04:40:27,240 --> 04:40:31,680 and et cetera, but I can read the room. 3530 04:40:31,680 --> 04:40:32,990 I can read the room. 3531 04:40:32,990 --> 04:40:37,330 So I'm just going to say I'm very disappointed 3532 04:40:37,330 --> 04:40:39,310 with how we've treated this application. 3533 04:40:39,310 --> 04:40:42,670 I'm very disappointed that we're going to put 3534 04:40:42,670 --> 04:40:46,500 so much density in this area, 3535 04:40:46,500 --> 04:40:48,930 and I'll just simply be voting no. 3536 04:40:48,930 --> 04:40:51,320 And I'm sorry that it's come to that, 3537 04:40:51,320 --> 04:40:54,140 but I don't think I have a lot of choice. 3538 04:40:54,140 --> 04:40:57,380 I cannot support this application. 3539 04:40:57,380 --> 04:40:59,730 Thank you. 3540 04:40:59,730 --> 04:41:03,460 - Okay, other speakers to this application. 3541 04:41:03,460 --> 04:41:05,130 I'm gonna speak briefly to it. 3542 04:41:05,130 --> 04:41:12,080 I'll hand the chair over to Councillor ramen. 3543 04:41:12,080 --> 04:41:15,310 - Thank you, I have the chair, go ahead. 3544 04:41:15,310 --> 04:41:18,890 - So I certainly understand the concerns 3545 04:41:18,890 --> 04:41:22,460 that colleagues and even members of the public 3546 04:41:22,460 --> 04:41:22,960 raised, 3547 04:41:22,960 --> 04:41:27,440 but we actually have to be pragmatic here 3548 04:41:27,440 --> 04:41:30,110 and recognize the history of the site 3549 04:41:30,110 --> 04:41:32,140 and what's allowed to be developed on it. 3550 04:41:32,140 --> 04:41:34,200 There are over six hectares of the site 3551 04:41:34,200 --> 04:41:36,490 can currently be developed under the existing 3552 04:41:36,490 --> 04:41:37,290 permissions 3553 04:41:37,290 --> 04:41:40,150 and including significant portions of the site 3554 04:41:40,150 --> 04:41:43,120 that under this application would be donated 3555 04:41:43,120 --> 04:41:46,050 and given to the municipality for possible future 3556 04:41:46,050 --> 04:41:47,080 inclusion 3557 04:41:47,080 --> 04:41:48,520 into the ESA. 3558 04:41:48,520 --> 04:41:52,010 So I disagree that this is a failure of policy. 3559 04:41:52,010 --> 04:41:56,550 I disagree that this is bad environmental policy 3560 04:41:56,550 --> 04:41:56,880 decision 3561 04:41:56,880 --> 04:41:57,670 making. 3562 04:41:57,670 --> 04:42:01,270 This is rational decision making based on the 3563 04:42:01,270 --> 04:42:01,870 circumstances 3564 04:42:01,870 --> 04:42:02,780 that we have before us. 3565 04:42:02,780 --> 04:42:07,090 And we have an opportunity to see some height and 3566 04:42:07,090 --> 04:42:08,290 density 3567 04:42:08,290 --> 04:42:12,300 focused on the north and west portions of this 3568 04:42:12,300 --> 04:42:12,770 site, 3569 04:42:12,770 --> 04:42:14,550 the furthest parts of the site away from the 3570 04:42:14,550 --> 04:42:16,550 existing ESA, 3571 04:42:16,550 --> 04:42:20,720 and a significant over three-hector donation 3572 04:42:20,720 --> 04:42:22,240 of the more sensitive parts of the site, 3573 04:42:22,240 --> 04:42:25,740 some of which are zoned light industrial, 3574 04:42:25,740 --> 04:42:31,340 to the city, to be protected in perpetuity. 3575 04:42:31,340 --> 04:42:33,320 This is an opportunity for us, yes, 3576 04:42:33,320 --> 04:42:35,380 we have to give up some heightened density 3577 04:42:35,380 --> 04:42:37,780 to move beyond the existing permissions on the 3578 04:42:37,780 --> 04:42:38,070 site, 3579 04:42:38,070 --> 04:42:39,690 but this is a rare opportunity for us 3580 04:42:39,690 --> 04:42:42,750 to expand a really critical environmental asset 3581 04:42:42,750 --> 04:42:45,770 in the city through a three-hecter expansion 3582 04:42:45,770 --> 04:42:47,990 into city ownership of the USA. 3583 04:42:47,990 --> 04:42:49,820 You heard, and I don't think it was one 3584 04:42:49,820 --> 04:42:52,470 of the best public engagement sessions 3585 04:42:52,470 --> 04:42:54,790 because there were a lot of people showing up 3586 04:42:54,790 --> 04:42:55,500 saying, 3587 04:42:55,500 --> 04:42:58,590 don't do this at all because we wanna protect the 3588 04:42:58,590 --> 04:42:59,140 USA. 3589 04:42:59,140 --> 04:43:01,930 It doesn't recognize the existing decision 3590 04:43:01,930 --> 04:43:05,470 that was made and the existing binding 3591 04:43:05,470 --> 04:43:08,240 development opportunities on that site 3592 04:43:08,240 --> 04:43:10,290 that we don't have much of a choice 3593 04:43:10,290 --> 04:43:12,670 it could move forward without any council 3594 04:43:12,670 --> 04:43:13,830 decision making. 3595 04:43:13,830 --> 04:43:17,960 So that's why you heard people who are staunch 3596 04:43:17,960 --> 04:43:20,800 environmental supporters, staunch supporters of 3597 04:43:20,800 --> 04:43:21,350 the ESA, 3598 04:43:21,350 --> 04:43:24,340 stand up in the gallery, even though other people 3599 04:43:24,340 --> 04:43:26,500 are standing up in support of it and say, 3600 04:43:26,500 --> 04:43:29,040 although I don't want to have to say this, 3601 04:43:29,040 --> 04:43:32,020 council should support the staff recommendation 3602 04:43:32,020 --> 04:43:35,610 because it is that opportunity to take into 3603 04:43:35,610 --> 04:43:37,090 public ownership 3604 04:43:37,090 --> 04:43:40,170 a significant new asset that we can turn into 3605 04:43:40,170 --> 04:43:42,950 an expanded ESA over three hectares. 3606 04:43:42,950 --> 04:43:45,470 So I get that this is a difficult one 3607 04:43:45,470 --> 04:43:47,210 because we have to navigate circumstances 3608 04:43:47,210 --> 04:43:50,320 and decisions that were part of tribunals 3609 04:43:50,320 --> 04:43:53,790 and previous decisions that were well before our 3610 04:43:53,790 --> 04:43:54,570 time. 3611 04:43:54,570 --> 04:43:56,880 But we have to recognize an opportunity when it 3612 04:43:56,880 --> 04:43:57,020 comes. 3613 04:43:57,020 --> 04:44:00,010 And so the proposal before us allows that to 3614 04:44:00,010 --> 04:44:00,760 happen. 3615 04:44:00,760 --> 04:44:03,090 And I think that that is an opportunity that we 3616 04:44:03,090 --> 04:44:04,120 should seize. 3617 04:44:04,120 --> 04:44:06,260 I would also say with density in the area, 3618 04:44:06,260 --> 04:44:09,640 we're talking about a significant public 3619 04:44:09,640 --> 04:44:10,680 investment 3620 04:44:10,680 --> 04:44:14,470 in rapid transit just steps down the block 3621 04:44:14,470 --> 04:44:16,290 at Wellington Road from this site. 3622 04:44:16,290 --> 04:44:18,060 You know, the density in this site near 3623 04:44:18,060 --> 04:44:18,750 significant, 3624 04:44:18,750 --> 04:44:20,370 one of the most significant employers in the city 3625 04:44:20,370 --> 04:44:20,470 , 3626 04:44:20,370 --> 04:44:23,880 the hospital, and access to the BRT. 3627 04:44:23,880 --> 04:44:26,430 This is not a bad spot for density. 3628 04:44:26,430 --> 04:44:28,390 When you take into fact that we can create 3629 04:44:28,390 --> 04:44:31,600 a new significant permanent municipally owned 3630 04:44:31,600 --> 04:44:32,130 buffer 3631 04:44:32,130 --> 04:44:35,120 to the ESA or even incorporate as part of the ESA 3632 04:44:35,120 --> 04:44:38,050 on parts of the site that were zoned light 3633 04:44:38,050 --> 04:44:38,580 industrial 3634 04:44:38,580 --> 04:44:40,180 and for other commercial uses. 3635 04:44:40,180 --> 04:44:42,800 So I'm gonna support the recommendation for you. 3636 04:44:42,800 --> 04:44:44,910 I would strongly encourage you to. 3637 04:44:44,910 --> 04:44:47,240 A rejection of this means we're back to the 3638 04:44:47,240 --> 04:44:47,340 unknown 3639 04:44:47,340 --> 04:44:50,130 and possible six hectares of development on this 3640 04:44:50,130 --> 04:44:50,280 site 3641 04:44:50,280 --> 04:44:52,190 without any municipal decision-making 3642 04:44:52,190 --> 04:44:53,590 by this council whatsoever. 3643 04:44:53,590 --> 04:44:58,350 So I encourage colleagues to support this one. 3644 04:44:58,350 --> 04:44:59,490 - Thank you, returning the chair to you 3645 04:44:59,490 --> 04:45:02,470 with no one on the speaker's list. 3646 04:45:02,470 --> 04:45:04,590 - Anyone else on the speaker's list? 3647 04:45:04,590 --> 04:45:07,130 If not, I have, I need someone to move 3648 04:45:07,130 --> 04:45:09,770 to just a small tactical amendment. 3649 04:45:09,770 --> 04:45:14,410 And that is just the words attached 3650 04:45:14,410 --> 04:45:17,820 revised by-law because the by-law that was before 3651 04:45:17,820 --> 04:45:19,130 us at the committee didn't have all 3652 04:45:19,130 --> 04:45:20,120 the pieces in it. 3653 04:45:20,120 --> 04:45:21,860 So we just need to put that wording in because it 3654 04:45:21,860 --> 04:45:23,270 will refer to the by-law that actually 3655 04:45:23,270 --> 04:45:24,260 came before council. 3656 04:45:24,260 --> 04:45:26,120 Councilor Stevens is willing to move that and 3657 04:45:26,120 --> 04:45:28,030 Councillor ramen is willing to second it. 3658 04:45:28,030 --> 04:45:30,340 I don't presume there's any debate on that. 3659 04:45:30,340 --> 04:45:31,320 No. 3660 04:45:31,320 --> 04:45:32,300 Okay. 3661 04:45:32,300 --> 04:45:33,340 We'll open that small technical amendment for 3662 04:45:33,340 --> 04:45:56,610 voting and then we'll vote on the main motion. 3663 04:45:56,610 --> 04:45:57,540 Motion carries 13-0. 3664 04:45:57,540 --> 04:46:02,320 And I'll have Councillor Layman move this and 3665 04:46:02,320 --> 04:46:07,250 then I'll second it and we'll open the main 3666 04:46:07,250 --> 04:46:27,310 motion for voting. 3667 04:46:27,310 --> 04:46:50,240 closing the vote motion carries 10 to three. 3668 04:46:50,240 --> 04:46:51,050 - Councillor Lehman. 3669 04:46:51,050 --> 04:46:51,870 - Thank you. 3670 04:46:51,870 --> 04:46:55,390 I'm moving on to number 18. 3671 04:46:55,390 --> 04:46:57,460 This is regarding the Midway Valley 3672 04:46:57,460 --> 04:47:01,630 environmentally significant area at a wander on 3673 04:47:01,630 --> 04:47:03,370 road encroachments. 3674 04:47:03,370 --> 04:47:05,630 Then Councillor Hopkins requests this to be 3675 04:47:05,630 --> 04:47:06,340 pulled. 3676 04:47:06,340 --> 04:47:07,990 - Okay, this has been requested to be pulled 3677 04:47:07,990 --> 04:47:08,810 by Councillor Hopkins. 3678 04:47:08,810 --> 04:47:10,770 Happy to go to you first, if you'd like. 3679 04:47:10,770 --> 04:47:16,990 Or wait, up to you. 3680 04:47:16,990 --> 04:47:21,730 - Yes, I was not at planning committee 3681 04:47:21,730 --> 04:47:24,150 for the debate that I am just looking 3682 04:47:24,150 --> 04:47:28,120 at the recommendation that came out of the 3683 04:47:28,120 --> 04:47:30,960 committee 3684 04:47:30,960 --> 04:47:35,970 and I do have a concern as it relates to D, 3685 04:47:35,970 --> 04:47:38,840 that civic administration be directed to report 3686 04:47:38,840 --> 04:47:39,610 back 3687 04:47:39,610 --> 04:47:42,490 to a future meeting and look at options two and 3688 04:47:42,490 --> 04:47:43,060 three. 3689 04:47:43,060 --> 04:47:45,360 I am supportive of option one, 3690 04:47:45,360 --> 04:47:46,950 which was the staff's referral. 3691 04:47:46,950 --> 04:47:52,020 So I would maybe just for now share my concern 3692 04:47:53,590 --> 04:48:00,430 concerns that if we are going to get a report 3693 04:48:00,430 --> 04:48:04,190 back, we should understand the consequences 3694 04:48:04,190 --> 04:48:07,570 to the whole city. 3695 04:48:07,570 --> 04:48:11,670 And not only -- we should get further information 3696 04:48:11,670 --> 04:48:15,660 if we are going to go with options 2 and 3. 3697 04:48:15,660 --> 04:48:20,410 And the other part of my concern is that, you 3698 04:48:20,410 --> 04:48:24,650 know, we have to be very, very cognizant 3699 04:48:24,650 --> 04:48:28,430 of allowing opportunities that probably 3700 04:48:28,430 --> 04:48:31,370 don't even exist now of encroachment. 3701 04:48:31,370 --> 04:48:36,100 And I would really prefer that DEB referred back. 3702 04:48:36,100 --> 04:48:40,980 So those are my comments. 3703 04:48:40,980 --> 04:48:42,280 - I have Councillor Lehman next. 3704 04:48:42,280 --> 04:48:44,170 - Yeah, thank you. 3705 04:48:44,170 --> 04:48:45,430 Sure, some of those concerns. 3706 04:48:45,430 --> 04:48:47,600 So I just would ask that DEB pulled separately 3707 04:48:47,600 --> 04:48:55,380 please for the vote. 3708 04:48:55,380 --> 04:48:56,210 - Yes, we can do that. 3709 04:48:56,210 --> 04:48:58,920 And I think we'll do D for first when we get to 3710 04:48:58,920 --> 04:48:59,020 it. 3711 04:48:58,920 --> 04:49:02,130 But we'll do debate on the whole thing 3712 04:49:02,130 --> 04:49:05,550 until the vote, and then we'll pull it separate. 3713 04:49:05,550 --> 04:49:06,610 Other speakers to this? 3714 04:49:06,610 --> 04:49:12,870 Councillor Troso. 3715 04:49:12,870 --> 04:49:17,230 - Mayor, through you, I think that we had 3716 04:49:17,230 --> 04:49:23,670 a very, very clear and persuasive staff report 3717 04:49:23,670 --> 04:49:29,820 regarding the desirability of adopting option one 3718 04:49:29,820 --> 04:49:29,920 . 3719 04:49:29,820 --> 04:49:33,650 And that is continuing along the lines 3720 04:49:33,650 --> 04:49:37,410 with our encroachment program that has been 3721 04:49:37,410 --> 04:49:38,830 undertaken 3722 04:49:38,830 --> 04:49:41,840 by city enforcement authorities. 3723 04:49:41,840 --> 04:49:44,900 I do not think that this council 3724 04:49:44,900 --> 04:49:47,880 should be substituting its judgment 3725 04:49:47,880 --> 04:49:49,910 for how we should be dealing 3726 04:49:49,910 --> 04:49:54,060 with these code enforcement issues. 3727 04:49:54,060 --> 04:49:56,550 I'm not gonna make the claim that it's illegal 3728 04:49:56,550 --> 04:49:58,730 or inappropriate, apparently we can do it 3729 04:49:58,730 --> 04:50:00,550 'cause it's on the agenda 3730 04:50:00,550 --> 04:50:04,110 and it would be the direction of council. 3731 04:50:04,110 --> 04:50:07,770 I'm very worried about what the implications 3732 04:50:07,770 --> 04:50:11,150 of going anywhere besides option one. 3733 04:50:11,150 --> 04:50:13,030 And I wanna talk about the fact 3734 04:50:13,030 --> 04:50:16,120 that a lot of people are watching this. 3735 04:50:16,120 --> 04:50:17,540 There are a lot of people, 3736 04:50:17,540 --> 04:50:21,640 not just on how to wander on, not just in Sher 3737 04:50:21,640 --> 04:50:22,850 wood Forest, 3738 04:50:22,850 --> 04:50:25,830 not just in White Hills, 3739 04:50:25,830 --> 04:50:29,280 not just in the other areas that back onto parks, 3740 04:50:29,280 --> 04:50:33,520 people around the city are watching this. 3741 04:50:33,520 --> 04:50:36,870 And what we should not be doing is sending out a 3742 04:50:36,870 --> 04:50:37,930 signal 3743 04:50:37,930 --> 04:50:42,550 that says, "Yeah, do you wanna encroach?" 3744 04:50:42,550 --> 04:50:47,040 Well, you shouldn't do that, but if you do, 3745 04:50:47,040 --> 04:50:49,650 don't worry about it, 'cause we may just decide 3746 04:50:49,650 --> 04:50:52,430 to come back and excuse it if enough pressure's 3747 04:50:52,430 --> 04:50:53,550 put on you. 3748 04:50:53,550 --> 04:50:57,690 And I think that is a really bad way to be making 3749 04:50:57,690 --> 04:50:58,860 policy. 3750 04:50:58,860 --> 04:51:02,080 I also have concerns about how we're going to 3751 04:51:02,080 --> 04:51:02,960 dispose of 3752 04:51:02,960 --> 04:51:05,640 with or without a public participation meeting, 3753 04:51:05,640 --> 04:51:11,020 the matter of the nature of the trail, 3754 04:51:11,020 --> 04:51:16,190 the nature of the park versus in ESA. 3755 04:51:16,190 --> 04:51:22,400 So I would be in favor of reinstating the staff 3756 04:51:22,400 --> 04:51:25,070 report. 3757 04:51:25,070 --> 04:51:30,380 I would be in support of substituting the staff 3758 04:51:30,380 --> 04:51:30,480 report 3759 04:51:30,380 --> 04:51:33,420 for this recommendation. 3760 04:51:33,420 --> 04:51:35,970 And I'm a little bit unclear procedurally. 3761 04:51:35,970 --> 04:51:39,850 Maybe I could get some guidance from the clerk. 3762 04:51:39,850 --> 04:51:41,900 If I tried to make a substitute motion 3763 04:51:41,900 --> 04:51:46,270 to reinstate the staff report, 3764 04:51:46,270 --> 04:51:48,170 would that be considered contrary to this? 3765 04:51:48,170 --> 04:51:50,900 And would it be necessary to vote this down 3766 04:51:50,900 --> 04:51:52,570 before proceeding to the staff report? 3767 04:51:52,570 --> 04:51:53,990 I think that's what the answer is gonna be, 3768 04:51:53,990 --> 04:51:55,690 but I need to check. 3769 04:51:55,690 --> 04:51:56,490 - This is great. 3770 04:51:56,490 --> 04:52:26,020 - Yep, just give me one second. 3771 04:52:26,020 --> 04:52:27,870 So Councillor, I think if you wanted to put a 3772 04:52:27,870 --> 04:52:29,330 different recommendation on you're probably 3773 04:52:29,330 --> 04:52:32,040 going to have to defeat what the committee 3774 04:52:32,040 --> 04:52:35,150 approved because it's relatively substantive 3775 04:52:35,150 --> 04:52:39,080 and then you could put something else on. 3776 04:52:39,080 --> 04:52:40,060 Thank you. 3777 04:52:40,060 --> 04:52:41,780 And that's into the entirety. 3778 04:52:41,780 --> 04:52:43,760 There's the encroachment issue here. 3779 04:52:43,760 --> 04:52:47,100 There's also the future disposition of the nature 3780 04:52:47,100 --> 04:52:49,440 of what's going to be in that land. 3781 04:52:49,440 --> 04:52:52,450 So I'm just going to be voting against the entire 3782 04:52:52,450 --> 04:52:54,620 package that came from planning. 3783 04:52:54,620 --> 04:52:59,370 I do want to ask legal staff if you could just 3784 04:52:59,370 --> 04:53:04,230 sort of tell us worst case scenario, 3785 04:53:04,230 --> 04:53:06,780 or what do you think is going to happen? 3786 04:53:06,780 --> 04:53:11,270 If we go along and start negotiating 3787 04:53:11,270 --> 04:53:13,920 with under option two or option three, 3788 04:53:13,920 --> 04:53:16,080 what could some of the implications of that be 3789 04:53:16,080 --> 04:53:18,480 in terms of people's expectation 3790 04:53:18,480 --> 04:53:23,570 that the encroachments be excused 3791 04:53:23,570 --> 04:53:27,030 or in other methods of enforcement? 3792 04:53:27,030 --> 04:53:29,110 - Well, I will have to ask the solicitor 3793 04:53:29,110 --> 04:53:30,560 if she would answer that or not 3794 04:53:30,560 --> 04:53:35,550 in an open session, so go ahead. 3795 04:53:35,550 --> 04:53:36,990 - Thank you, and through your worship, 3796 04:53:36,990 --> 04:53:39,350 I think those would be questions for a closed 3797 04:53:39,350 --> 04:53:42,060 session. 3798 04:53:42,060 --> 04:53:45,100 - Councilor. 3799 04:53:45,100 --> 04:53:46,460 - Would it be fair to ask whether or not 3800 04:53:46,460 --> 04:53:48,750 you concur with the recommendations in the staff 3801 04:53:48,750 --> 04:53:58,070 report? 3802 04:53:58,070 --> 04:53:59,830 - Yeah, so Councilor, I'm not. 3803 04:53:59,830 --> 04:54:02,700 So civic administration wrote a report 3804 04:54:02,700 --> 04:54:06,300 that has concurrences on it. 3805 04:54:06,300 --> 04:54:08,030 I wanna be cautious about you asking the 3806 04:54:08,030 --> 04:54:08,410 solicitor 3807 04:54:08,410 --> 04:54:11,710 a question that might get into revealing 3808 04:54:11,710 --> 04:54:14,630 what might be her advice in camera on something 3809 04:54:14,630 --> 04:54:15,120 or not. 3810 04:54:15,120 --> 04:54:17,530 So I'm not gonna allow that question, 3811 04:54:17,530 --> 04:54:19,730 what you have is an original staff report 3812 04:54:19,730 --> 04:54:23,220 with multiple concurrences and signatories on it 3813 04:54:23,220 --> 04:54:26,230 and staff reports are reviewed by legal regularly 3814 04:54:26,230 --> 04:54:26,330 . 3815 04:54:26,230 --> 04:54:28,670 So I just want to be cautious that the, 3816 04:54:28,670 --> 04:54:30,380 'cause the solicitor just answered, 3817 04:54:30,380 --> 04:54:31,310 there are components of this 3818 04:54:31,310 --> 04:54:34,600 that she would answer questions in camera. 3819 04:54:34,600 --> 04:54:37,070 And I want to just express caution 3820 04:54:37,070 --> 04:54:39,460 in the way that you're asking that question 3821 04:54:39,460 --> 04:54:43,470 'cause it might lead to her essentially providing 3822 04:54:43,470 --> 04:54:45,370 legal advice and public by answering a question 3823 04:54:45,370 --> 04:54:47,530 in a way that you're wording it. 3824 04:54:47,530 --> 04:54:50,560 Then let me recognize that the code enforcement 3825 04:54:50,560 --> 04:54:51,100 authorities 3826 04:54:51,100 --> 04:54:52,650 have a certain amount of authority, 3827 04:54:52,650 --> 04:54:54,910 even though this is somewhat of a legal matter. 3828 04:54:54,910 --> 04:54:56,410 May I ask code enforcement staff, 3829 04:54:56,410 --> 04:54:58,140 whether they have any concerns 3830 04:54:58,140 --> 04:55:00,740 about how proceeding with option two or option 3831 04:55:00,740 --> 04:55:01,200 three, 3832 04:55:01,200 --> 04:55:04,390 might or might not compromise their ability 3833 04:55:04,390 --> 04:55:09,610 to enforce encroachments in the future. 3834 04:55:09,610 --> 04:55:13,560 - Mr. Vaylers? 3835 04:55:13,560 --> 04:55:14,400 - Through your worship. 3836 04:55:14,400 --> 04:55:16,110 So just going back to that, 3837 04:55:16,110 --> 04:55:17,620 the committee report that we brought forward. 3838 04:55:17,620 --> 04:55:19,210 So we were very clear. 3839 04:55:19,210 --> 04:55:20,880 We recommend option one, 3840 04:55:20,880 --> 04:55:24,850 which is to ensure that we keep these lands as 3841 04:55:24,850 --> 04:55:25,740 public lands. 3842 04:55:25,740 --> 04:55:28,060 It makes it much more clear when we're trying to 3843 04:55:28,060 --> 04:55:28,200 negotiate 3844 04:55:28,200 --> 04:55:29,680 and work with residents, 3845 04:55:29,680 --> 04:55:33,730 but that was the staff recommendation. 3846 04:55:33,730 --> 04:55:36,280 - Okay, well, I think I've made my position 3847 04:55:36,280 --> 04:55:37,020 pretty clear here 3848 04:55:37,020 --> 04:55:39,480 and I'm not going to make any amendments. 3849 04:55:39,480 --> 04:55:40,740 I don't think I can. 3850 04:55:40,740 --> 04:55:44,660 I'll reiterate, I believe very strongly, 3851 04:55:44,660 --> 04:55:47,910 that we should go, that we must go with option 3852 04:55:47,910 --> 04:55:48,430 one 3853 04:55:48,430 --> 04:55:51,070 and that this council is going to have to return 3854 04:55:51,070 --> 04:55:54,860 through some type of amending process, 3855 04:55:54,860 --> 04:55:57,430 possibly including a public participation meeting 3856 04:55:57,430 --> 04:56:00,200 with respect to the disposition of the nature of 3857 04:56:00,200 --> 04:56:00,560 the land. 3858 04:56:00,560 --> 04:56:03,740 And I'll leave it at that for purposes of this 3859 04:56:03,740 --> 04:56:05,930 discussion. 3860 04:56:05,930 --> 04:56:09,730 I really want to urge my colleagues 3861 04:56:09,730 --> 04:56:13,580 to reject the motion that's on the floor 3862 04:56:13,580 --> 04:56:16,010 and return to the staff report. 3863 04:56:16,010 --> 04:56:17,980 I believe that we're going to be suffering 3864 04:56:17,980 --> 04:56:23,540 a lot of pushback, a lot of loss of confidence 3865 04:56:23,540 --> 04:56:27,620 in our boundary system, and perhaps additional 3866 04:56:27,620 --> 04:56:28,210 litigation, 3867 04:56:28,210 --> 04:56:30,540 although I won't ask about that now, 3868 04:56:30,540 --> 04:56:32,800 but I think there is going to be a loss of 3869 04:56:32,800 --> 04:56:34,300 confidence 3870 04:56:34,300 --> 04:56:38,080 in what we do if we do not go with option one. 3871 04:56:38,080 --> 04:56:43,450 So please vote no, and it's entirety 3872 04:56:43,450 --> 04:56:45,960 on the motion that's in front of you. 3873 04:56:45,960 --> 04:56:50,040 Thank you very much. 3874 04:56:50,040 --> 04:56:53,440 - Okay, other speakers to this? 3875 04:56:53,440 --> 04:57:00,530 Go ahead, Councillor Stevenson. 3876 04:57:00,530 --> 04:57:01,370 - Thank you. 3877 04:57:01,370 --> 04:57:04,510 I just wanted to point out that this does not 3878 04:57:04,510 --> 04:57:05,120 preclude 3879 04:57:05,120 --> 04:57:07,910 option one, that we're asking for information 3880 04:57:07,910 --> 04:57:08,590 back 3881 04:57:08,590 --> 04:57:10,780 to get a report back to a future meeting 3882 04:57:10,780 --> 04:57:12,970 to explore options two and three 3883 04:57:12,970 --> 04:57:15,960 and report back on an alternative mechanism. 3884 04:57:15,960 --> 04:57:17,920 So this is about getting back information. 3885 04:57:17,920 --> 04:57:19,630 It's not about making a choice. 3886 04:57:19,630 --> 04:57:21,580 We're not doing anything drastic. 3887 04:57:21,580 --> 04:57:24,010 We're simply asking for more information back. 3888 04:57:24,010 --> 04:57:26,850 And I think the specifics of this area 3889 04:57:26,850 --> 04:57:30,800 warrant that extra time and consideration. 3890 04:57:30,800 --> 04:57:36,020 So I will be supporting. 3891 04:57:36,020 --> 04:57:38,530 - Okay, other speakers to this. 3892 04:57:38,530 --> 04:57:41,970 Go ahead, Councillor Ramen. 3893 04:57:41,970 --> 04:57:44,090 - Thank you and through you. 3894 04:57:44,090 --> 04:57:46,030 I appreciate the opportunity to speak to this 3895 04:57:46,030 --> 04:57:46,290 item. 3896 04:57:46,290 --> 04:57:48,940 So to start, I just wanna say, 3897 04:57:48,940 --> 04:57:53,250 I spend as much time as possible in the Medway 3898 04:57:53,250 --> 04:57:53,880 Valley. 3899 04:57:53,880 --> 04:57:56,490 I walk it frequently during the week, 3900 04:57:56,490 --> 04:57:59,050 clean it up when I can, including this coming 3901 04:57:59,050 --> 04:57:59,460 weekend. 3902 04:57:59,460 --> 04:58:04,260 And I'm generally supportive of the CMP. 3903 04:58:04,260 --> 04:58:06,610 The motion in front of us at this time 3904 04:58:06,610 --> 04:58:10,300 is to request a report back to assist residents 3905 04:58:10,300 --> 04:58:13,510 and council to understand the opportunities 3906 04:58:13,510 --> 04:58:16,290 and consequences to addressing the boundary 3907 04:58:16,290 --> 04:58:17,760 issues. 3908 04:58:17,760 --> 04:58:20,820 Personally, I would lean towards a case-by-case 3909 04:58:20,820 --> 04:58:21,830 assessment 3910 04:58:21,830 --> 04:58:24,630 for option three, which is an encroachment 3911 04:58:24,630 --> 04:58:25,260 agreement 3912 04:58:25,260 --> 04:58:27,640 where the city maintains ownership, 3913 04:58:27,640 --> 04:58:30,930 should residents not comply. 3914 04:58:30,930 --> 04:58:33,230 My understanding in my conversations 3915 04:58:33,230 --> 04:58:36,330 with residents in the area is as of March 25th, 3916 04:58:36,330 --> 04:58:39,100 the letters included in our package, 3917 04:58:39,100 --> 04:58:41,880 residents have been encouraged to comply with 3918 04:58:41,880 --> 04:58:43,840 enforcement, 3919 04:58:43,840 --> 04:58:48,300 meaning option one is actually still live. 3920 04:58:48,300 --> 04:58:50,640 There is a cost to comply for homeowners. 3921 04:58:50,640 --> 04:58:54,290 And this is something we can't and haven't really 3922 04:58:54,290 --> 04:58:55,120 discussed. 3923 04:58:55,120 --> 04:58:57,960 We haven't discussed the financial implications 3924 04:58:57,960 --> 04:59:01,860 for people in this area to comply with the 3925 04:59:01,860 --> 04:59:03,740 enforcement order. 3926 04:59:03,740 --> 04:59:06,480 So a few things. 3927 04:59:06,480 --> 04:59:09,090 One, and you see it in the letters from ARNA, 3928 04:59:09,090 --> 04:59:12,560 the Adawandran Residence Neighborhood Association 3929 04:59:12,560 --> 04:59:12,660 . 3930 04:59:14,070 --> 04:59:19,050 A survey of this area has not been done 3931 04:59:19,050 --> 04:59:21,640 other than an aerial photo. 3932 04:59:21,640 --> 04:59:25,490 So when markers are placed in their backyards, 3933 04:59:25,490 --> 04:59:28,870 they are very unclear at this time 3934 04:59:28,870 --> 04:59:31,630 as to whether or not those markers are as 3935 04:59:31,630 --> 04:59:32,150 accurate 3936 04:59:32,150 --> 04:59:36,030 as possible when it comes to the encroachments. 3937 04:59:36,030 --> 04:59:40,700 They've been told and they've been told 3938 04:59:40,700 --> 04:59:42,980 that they are to comply with the orders. 3939 04:59:42,980 --> 04:59:46,480 There are things like trees and shrubs. 3940 04:59:46,480 --> 04:59:49,170 They're not sure if they're native or non-native. 3941 04:59:49,170 --> 04:59:51,290 And they're trying to figure out 3942 04:59:51,290 --> 04:59:53,260 what's going to be the implication 3943 04:59:53,260 --> 04:59:55,080 for those trees and shrubs 3944 04:59:55,080 --> 04:59:58,660 if that fence that they had comes down. 3945 04:59:58,660 --> 05:00:01,610 And in their minds, some of them, 3946 05:00:01,610 --> 05:00:03,500 in my conversations with them, 3947 05:00:03,500 --> 05:00:09,010 they're incensed by the fact that the city 3948 05:00:09,010 --> 05:00:11,730 may require those trees and shrubs, 3949 05:00:11,730 --> 05:00:14,080 some of them very old and mature 3950 05:00:14,080 --> 05:00:15,590 to come out of their yards. 3951 05:00:15,590 --> 05:00:21,370 There's an issue with the slopes in those back 3952 05:00:21,370 --> 05:00:21,830 yards 3953 05:00:21,830 --> 05:00:26,850 in some of the backyards, about five or six, 3954 05:00:26,850 --> 05:00:30,870 where the fence line and the slope line, 3955 05:00:30,870 --> 05:00:33,710 again, is very unclear. 3956 05:00:33,710 --> 05:00:36,800 And if they comply with the order, 3957 05:00:36,800 --> 05:00:39,450 it doesn't actually, may not actually allow them 3958 05:00:39,450 --> 05:00:42,100 to put a fence in their backyard at all. 3959 05:00:42,100 --> 05:00:46,110 So there's lots of unanswered questions, 3960 05:00:46,110 --> 05:00:49,220 but yet they feel like all they've been told is 3961 05:00:49,220 --> 05:00:50,350 to comply. 3962 05:00:50,350 --> 05:00:54,540 So we're a report back actually buys us time 3963 05:00:54,540 --> 05:00:58,420 to give people more information as we continue 3964 05:00:58,420 --> 05:01:01,990 to explore the conversations with the area. 3965 05:01:01,990 --> 05:01:04,230 Conversations within the letters 3966 05:01:04,230 --> 05:01:06,720 that we've received, the communication you've 3967 05:01:06,720 --> 05:01:07,600 received, 3968 05:01:07,600 --> 05:01:09,960 people have been very clear in this area 3969 05:01:09,960 --> 05:01:12,980 that there has been very limited communication, 3970 05:01:12,980 --> 05:01:17,700 1978 subdivision agreement, 2024 enforcement 3971 05:01:17,700 --> 05:01:19,240 action. 3972 05:01:19,240 --> 05:01:21,960 And in between that, there was a conservation 3973 05:01:21,960 --> 05:01:22,900 master plan 3974 05:01:22,900 --> 05:01:25,260 and the conservation master plan had one 3975 05:01:25,260 --> 05:01:25,780 neighborhood 3976 05:01:25,780 --> 05:01:28,260 representative who doesn't live in the 3977 05:01:28,260 --> 05:01:29,900 neighborhood anymore. 3978 05:01:29,900 --> 05:01:33,630 So the agreements around the trail, the level 3979 05:01:33,630 --> 05:01:34,880 three trail 3980 05:01:34,880 --> 05:01:38,420 and all the different components of the CMP 3981 05:01:38,420 --> 05:01:42,530 may not have made it to residents in that area. 3982 05:01:42,530 --> 05:01:47,160 And because of that, they've asked for more 3983 05:01:47,160 --> 05:01:48,180 information. 3984 05:01:48,180 --> 05:01:51,010 And so again, this is not a decision point 3985 05:01:51,010 --> 05:01:54,820 on what happens next, whether or not we decide 3986 05:01:54,820 --> 05:01:57,590 on option two or three, it's another report back 3987 05:01:57,590 --> 05:02:01,040 to give people more information, more time to ask 3988 05:02:01,040 --> 05:02:04,530 their questions from within those boundary 3989 05:02:04,530 --> 05:02:05,770 disagreements 3990 05:02:05,770 --> 05:02:07,270 and to find out more information 3991 05:02:07,270 --> 05:02:13,790 about the options that are in front of them. 3992 05:02:13,790 --> 05:02:16,720 - The speakers, Councillor Pribble. 3993 05:02:16,720 --> 05:02:18,780 Thank you, I also had a chance to visit this area 3994 05:02:18,780 --> 05:02:18,880 , 3995 05:02:18,780 --> 05:02:21,100 like most of us actually even last year when we 3996 05:02:21,100 --> 05:02:23,380 were there before and it was on our agenda. 3997 05:02:23,380 --> 05:02:26,150 I just want to say that I will support, I will 3998 05:02:26,150 --> 05:02:28,860 support what is in front of us because I do want 3999 05:02:28,860 --> 05:02:32,400 to receive the report back and again as already 4000 05:02:32,400 --> 05:02:35,840 was stated it's not that the number one is not 4001 05:02:35,840 --> 05:02:38,150 of the table but I do want to evaluate the 4002 05:02:38,150 --> 05:02:43,180 reports back. Thank you. Okay before I get to the 4003 05:02:43,180 --> 05:02:43,500 next 4004 05:02:43,500 --> 05:02:45,520 speakers I have enough people on the speakers 4005 05:02:45,520 --> 05:02:48,120 list that I need a motion to extend past six o' 4006 05:02:48,120 --> 05:02:48,520 clock 4007 05:02:48,520 --> 05:02:51,670 move by Councillor ramen seconded by Councillor 4008 05:02:51,670 --> 05:02:54,060 Stevenson we're going to vote for that in the 4009 05:02:54,060 --> 05:03:10,840 system. Opposed to vote motion carries 13-0. All 4010 05:03:10,840 --> 05:03:12,970 right I'll go to Councillor Freira next 4011 05:03:12,970 --> 05:03:17,520 year next on the list. Thank you Mayor. So I'm 4012 05:03:17,520 --> 05:03:20,930 here in the debate and we spoke to this at PEC as 4013 05:03:20,930 --> 05:03:22,150 well 4014 05:03:22,150 --> 05:03:23,940 but I don't want to like convolute like 4015 05:03:23,940 --> 05:03:26,070 everything that's going on to it let's just 4016 05:03:26,070 --> 05:03:26,650 reduce it right 4017 05:03:26,650 --> 05:03:29,110 down to what is this about and it's about 4018 05:03:29,110 --> 05:03:31,880 property owners who are a budding parkland or 4019 05:03:31,880 --> 05:03:35,030 or environmentally significant areas 4020 05:03:35,030 --> 05:03:37,140 and building whether they build a fence 4021 05:03:37,140 --> 05:03:38,970 or something on it and they encroach on the area. 4022 05:03:38,970 --> 05:03:43,060 And now there's a dispute between whether that 4023 05:03:43,060 --> 05:03:43,360 land 4024 05:03:43,360 --> 05:03:46,210 should be, I guess, owned by property owners or 4025 05:03:46,210 --> 05:03:47,080 licensed 4026 05:03:47,080 --> 05:03:49,610 and whether the city should continue on its 4027 05:03:49,610 --> 05:03:50,490 enforcement 4028 05:03:50,490 --> 05:03:53,680 for any type of encroachment on the city lands. 4029 05:03:53,680 --> 05:03:58,430 I think that, you know, like with options two and 4030 05:03:58,430 --> 05:03:58,720 three, 4031 05:03:58,720 --> 05:04:00,530 you know, like I understand that this is a report 4032 05:04:00,530 --> 05:04:00,780 back 4033 05:04:00,780 --> 05:04:03,100 for more info, this is not making a decision 4034 05:04:03,100 --> 05:04:03,850 right now, 4035 05:04:03,850 --> 05:04:08,350 but it's also a signaling of council being, I 4036 05:04:08,350 --> 05:04:09,090 guess, 4037 05:04:09,090 --> 05:04:13,160 up for the discussion on are we gonna consider 4038 05:04:13,160 --> 05:04:14,420 this potential encroachment? 4039 05:04:14,420 --> 05:04:17,060 Are we gonna consider potentially finding the 4040 05:04:17,060 --> 05:04:17,350 lands 4041 05:04:17,350 --> 05:04:20,150 to be either surplus, selling it to the property 4042 05:04:20,150 --> 05:04:20,570 owners 4043 05:04:20,570 --> 05:04:22,800 or licensing the land as some type of agreement 4044 05:04:22,800 --> 05:04:25,700 and allowing these encroachments to take place? 4045 05:04:25,700 --> 05:04:28,740 And I think that's it, that signaling is an issue 4046 05:04:28,740 --> 05:04:28,960 . 4047 05:04:28,960 --> 05:04:31,500 I think what we should be doing is just signaling 4048 05:04:31,500 --> 05:04:33,970 right now and saying, you know, it is not 4049 05:04:33,970 --> 05:04:37,760 okay for publicly owned lands to be taken over by 4050 05:04:37,760 --> 05:04:39,420 property owners. 4051 05:04:39,420 --> 05:04:42,600 It is not okay to basically see these public 4052 05:04:42,600 --> 05:04:46,590 lands, especially park lands, especially 4053 05:04:46,590 --> 05:04:47,110 environmentally 4054 05:04:47,110 --> 05:04:51,050 significant area lands, and potentially give them 4055 05:04:51,050 --> 05:04:52,870 up to property owners. 4056 05:04:52,870 --> 05:04:55,420 I think these lands are the entire, they belong 4057 05:04:55,420 --> 05:04:56,650 to the entire city. 4058 05:04:56,650 --> 05:04:59,910 should be enjoyed by the entire city and I think 4059 05:04:59,910 --> 05:05:01,620 this would set a precedent and 4060 05:05:01,620 --> 05:05:03,940 it would open up the discussion and remove our 4061 05:05:03,940 --> 05:05:05,060 ability to enforce any 4062 05:05:05,060 --> 05:05:07,840 types of encroachments in the future. Like if we 4063 05:05:07,840 --> 05:05:09,520 were to signal this direction 4064 05:05:09,520 --> 05:05:11,080 right now that we are willing to have this 4065 05:05:11,080 --> 05:05:13,740 conversation, who's to know in the 4066 05:05:13,740 --> 05:05:16,700 future a potential property owner who decides to 4067 05:05:16,700 --> 05:05:18,400 build a fence or put a patio 4068 05:05:18,400 --> 05:05:20,700 stone down on publicly owned land and say okay 4069 05:05:20,700 --> 05:05:22,500 that's mine now and then point to 4070 05:05:22,500 --> 05:05:25,700 this item and say you guys you did this in the 4071 05:05:25,700 --> 05:05:27,540 past what why would you say no to 4072 05:05:27,540 --> 05:05:31,150 me now this will hurt our ability to to enforce 4073 05:05:31,150 --> 05:05:32,830 such encroachments in in the 4074 05:05:32,830 --> 05:05:36,710 future this does set an a precedent that will 4075 05:05:36,710 --> 05:05:39,610 undermine our ability to enforce 4076 05:05:39,610 --> 05:05:43,680 city-owned land to enforce publicly owned land we 4077 05:05:43,680 --> 05:05:44,760 should signal right now 4078 05:05:44,760 --> 05:05:48,000 that this is not something that the city is 4079 05:05:48,000 --> 05:05:50,160 willing to to look into we should 4080 05:05:50,160 --> 05:05:53,540 remove any type of encroachments, we should 4081 05:05:53,540 --> 05:05:55,770 recognize that this is publicly owned land 4082 05:05:55,770 --> 05:05:58,560 available to everybody in the city, and if 4083 05:05:58,560 --> 05:06:01,430 someone were to say, you know, I put my fence 4084 05:06:01,430 --> 05:06:03,950 down here, this is now my land, we should say 4085 05:06:03,950 --> 05:06:06,690 that no, it is not. This is a city owned land. 4086 05:06:06,690 --> 05:06:09,020 And I think that we should just, you know, be 4087 05:06:09,020 --> 05:06:11,200 consistent with our enforcement practices 4088 05:06:11,200 --> 05:06:14,190 like we have in the past. I worry on how that 4089 05:06:14,190 --> 05:06:17,460 will tie the city's hands in the future. 4090 05:06:17,460 --> 05:06:22,700 And if we were to make a decision with respect to 4091 05:06:22,700 --> 05:06:25,400 option two or three in the future, that 4092 05:06:25,400 --> 05:06:28,330 is not going to help the city's enforcement 4093 05:06:28,330 --> 05:06:29,780 practice as well. 4094 05:06:29,780 --> 05:06:32,560 It could lead to a whole bunch of items that are 4095 05:06:32,560 --> 05:06:34,750 just going to not necessarily work in 4096 05:06:34,750 --> 05:06:35,750 the city's favor. 4097 05:06:35,750 --> 05:06:38,130 So I am not going to be supporting the motions. 4098 05:06:38,130 --> 05:06:40,170 I think we should go with option one. 4099 05:06:40,170 --> 05:06:43,170 I think we should signal right now that this is 4100 05:06:43,170 --> 05:06:44,780 city-owned land. 4101 05:06:44,780 --> 05:06:45,750 This is park land. 4102 05:06:45,750 --> 05:06:47,350 This is environmentally significant land. 4103 05:06:47,350 --> 05:06:51,310 belongs to everybody. And if someone were to 4104 05:06:51,310 --> 05:06:53,880 build something there from their private 4105 05:06:53,880 --> 05:06:56,190 property and approach onto the land, that doesn't 4106 05:06:56,190 --> 05:06:58,210 mean it's your land. You know I worry 4107 05:06:58,210 --> 05:07:02,330 about that. What's to say, private property owner 4108 05:07:02,330 --> 05:07:04,770 who abuts a park land moving forward 4109 05:07:04,770 --> 05:07:07,090 after this decision doesn't decide to build a 4110 05:07:07,090 --> 05:07:08,930 fence that goes out into the park land and 4111 05:07:08,930 --> 05:07:11,580 say that's mine now. And I'm willing to have a 4112 05:07:11,580 --> 05:07:13,060 conversation with the city on how that will 4113 05:07:13,060 --> 05:07:19,170 happen. No, we shouldn't be doing that. 4114 05:07:19,170 --> 05:07:26,620 - Mr. Speakers, I have a request to vote on D 4115 05:07:26,620 --> 05:07:27,230 separately, 4116 05:07:27,230 --> 05:07:31,350 which we'll do first and then we'll vote 4117 05:07:31,350 --> 05:07:34,310 on the rest of it all together, okay? 4118 05:07:34,310 --> 05:07:59,700 So we'll open D for voting. 4119 05:07:59,700 --> 05:08:05,670 - Close in the vote, motion fails, four to nine. 4120 05:08:05,670 --> 05:08:25,540 - Okay, and we'll open the rest of it. 4121 05:08:25,540 --> 05:08:34,510 - Close in the vote, motion carries 10 to three. 4122 05:08:34,510 --> 05:08:35,730 - Councillor Layman. 4123 05:08:35,730 --> 05:08:37,400 - Thank you, Mayor, that completes the six report 4124 05:08:37,400 --> 05:08:45,250 of the Planning Environment Committee. 4125 05:08:45,250 --> 05:08:46,690 - Okay, that moves us on to the six report 4126 05:08:46,690 --> 05:08:48,940 of Community and Protective Services Committee. 4127 05:08:48,940 --> 05:08:49,980 I'll turn it over to the chair 4128 05:08:49,980 --> 05:08:59,400 to present the report, Councillor Ramen. 4129 05:08:59,400 --> 05:09:01,010 - Thank you, and through you, Chair, 4130 05:09:01,010 --> 05:09:04,160 I'm looking to present the six report of caps. 4131 05:09:04,160 --> 05:09:07,030 I was asked to pull item four, 4132 05:09:07,030 --> 05:09:10,640 item seven and item 10, 4133 05:09:10,640 --> 05:09:18,030 but I'll look to see if there's any other items. 4134 05:09:18,030 --> 05:09:20,220 - Okay, anyone like anything else 4135 05:09:20,220 --> 05:09:24,770 pulled separately besides four, seven and 10. 4136 05:09:24,770 --> 05:09:27,390 Okay, go ahead, Councilor. 4137 05:09:27,390 --> 05:09:28,370 - Thank you. 4138 05:09:28,370 --> 05:09:30,730 I will put on the floor items one through three, 4139 05:09:30,730 --> 05:09:33,630 five, six, eight, nine and 11. 4140 05:09:33,630 --> 05:09:34,760 - Okay, those items are on the floor. 4141 05:09:34,760 --> 05:09:39,980 I'll look for any speakers to those items. 4142 05:09:39,980 --> 05:09:47,330 Okay, seeing none, we'll open this for voting. 4143 05:09:47,330 --> 05:09:49,490 Hold on. 4144 05:09:49,490 --> 05:09:54,800 - Sorry, in the added agenda, 4145 05:09:54,800 --> 05:09:57,990 Councillor Frank had an item for 11. 4146 05:09:57,990 --> 05:10:01,810 I just remembered. 4147 05:10:01,810 --> 05:10:04,930 - It's her item didn't require any sort of action 4148 05:10:04,930 --> 05:10:05,030 . 4149 05:10:04,930 --> 05:10:06,990 It was simply a letter she wanted attached to it. 4150 05:10:06,990 --> 05:10:09,020 There's no decision she's asked us to make. 4151 05:10:09,020 --> 05:10:11,170 It's her signaling some future. 4152 05:10:11,170 --> 05:10:11,980 - About a future audit. 4153 05:10:11,980 --> 05:10:12,790 Okay, perfect. 4154 05:10:12,790 --> 05:10:16,120 - Yeah, it doesn't need to be separate. 4155 05:10:16,120 --> 05:10:19,250 Okay, so we're gonna proceed with the vote 4156 05:10:19,250 --> 05:10:55,440 on all the items that the council mentioned. 4157 05:10:55,440 --> 05:11:02,730 - Please vote, motion carries 13-0. 4158 05:11:02,730 --> 05:11:05,820 - Thank you, I'll look to put item four on the 4159 05:11:05,820 --> 05:11:12,400 floor. 4160 05:11:12,400 --> 05:11:13,630 - Okay, item four is on the floor. 4161 05:11:13,630 --> 05:11:15,300 I look for any speakers. 4162 05:11:15,300 --> 05:11:17,600 Go ahead, Councillor Stevenson. 4163 05:11:17,600 --> 05:11:18,430 - Thank you and through you. 4164 05:11:18,430 --> 05:11:20,390 I just had a couple of questions for staff. 4165 05:11:20,390 --> 05:11:22,640 I did send them ahead of time. 4166 05:11:22,640 --> 05:11:26,890 Not sure if we can get answers tonight 4167 05:11:26,890 --> 05:11:29,250 or if they'll come later, but on page 10 of the 4168 05:11:29,250 --> 05:11:30,270 report, 4169 05:11:30,270 --> 05:11:35,300 it talks about a reduction in the urgent wait 4170 05:11:35,300 --> 05:11:35,580 list 4171 05:11:35,580 --> 05:11:40,620 by 942 and yet only 321 housed from that same 4172 05:11:40,620 --> 05:11:40,720 urgent list. 4173 05:11:40,620 --> 05:11:44,900 So just if the public's looking at this 4174 05:11:44,900 --> 05:11:46,720 wants to know I just wondered what happened to 4175 05:11:46,720 --> 05:11:50,110 the other 600. Mr. Dickens. 4176 05:11:50,110 --> 05:11:52,540 Thank you Your Worship and thank you for the 4177 05:11:52,540 --> 05:11:54,020 questions ahead of the meeting 4178 05:11:54,020 --> 05:11:57,800 today so we can have a response. For the urgent 4179 05:11:57,800 --> 05:12:00,540 status so prior to staff the 4180 05:12:00,540 --> 05:12:03,430 stopping of the taking of urgent requests council 4181 05:12:03,430 --> 05:12:05,650 had actually directed us that 4182 05:12:05,650 --> 05:12:07,930 applicants had to be residing in London or 4183 05:12:07,930 --> 05:12:10,700 Middlesex County for the past or prior 4184 05:12:10,700 --> 05:12:13,300 nine months in order to be eligible for the 4185 05:12:13,300 --> 05:12:16,100 urgent status. So the team did a list 4186 05:12:16,100 --> 05:12:19,290 clean up where individuals were removed from the 4187 05:12:19,290 --> 05:12:21,700 urgent status or removed from 4188 05:12:21,700 --> 05:12:24,010 that list for anyone that was no longer 4189 05:12:24,010 --> 05:12:26,240 applicable for that definition. 4190 05:12:26,240 --> 05:12:33,090 Additionally, there are folks who perhaps found 4191 05:12:33,090 --> 05:12:36,840 housing elsewhere that they didn't 4192 05:12:36,840 --> 05:12:41,000 respond to or they refused an offer, which means 4193 05:12:41,000 --> 05:12:42,610 they get removed from the 4194 05:12:42,610 --> 05:12:44,930 list. That's actually a legislative piece that 4195 05:12:44,930 --> 05:12:46,820 came in to play shortly 4196 05:12:46,820 --> 05:12:52,260 after January 2020. Or the application becomes 4197 05:12:52,260 --> 05:12:54,900 ineligible due to a change in income and 4198 05:12:54,900 --> 05:12:58,210 a few other various reasons. So there's a whole 4199 05:12:58,210 --> 05:13:00,340 host of variables. 4200 05:13:00,340 --> 05:13:07,320 Okay. Thank you for that. That's really helpful. 4201 05:13:07,320 --> 05:13:11,190 I did have another. Well, I'll just have a 4202 05:13:11,190 --> 05:13:17,410 few comments, I think, that I'm really concerned, 4203 05:13:17,410 --> 05:13:22,820 as I think everybody knows, about the housing, 4204 05:13:22,820 --> 05:13:27,360 The tenancy, placement and profile, the terrible 4205 05:13:27,360 --> 05:13:32,030 apartments that I'm seeing and the conditions 4206 05:13:32,030 --> 05:13:34,800 that people who are living in some of these 4207 05:13:34,800 --> 05:13:36,700 buildings are enduring. 4208 05:13:36,700 --> 05:13:40,460 On top of the fact that we're getting damages to 4209 05:13:40,460 --> 05:13:44,030 apartments and we're losing those units 4210 05:13:44,030 --> 05:13:46,350 and we're losing funding that we could put 4211 05:13:46,350 --> 05:13:47,740 towards other units. 4212 05:13:47,740 --> 05:13:53,330 So this change was done in September 2024, and I 4213 05:13:53,330 --> 05:13:55,600 was really looking forward to this update 4214 05:13:55,600 --> 05:13:59,290 to find out and hear the good news, hopefully, of 4215 05:13:59,290 --> 05:14:00,990 what was happening. 4216 05:14:00,990 --> 05:14:04,640 But I'm disappointed that we don't have the 4217 05:14:04,640 --> 05:14:06,410 feedback back. 4218 05:14:06,410 --> 05:14:08,940 It says that the request for feedback just went 4219 05:14:08,940 --> 05:14:11,580 out in March of 2026, and we don't have 4220 05:14:11,580 --> 05:14:14,660 the information back yet, just really would have 4221 05:14:14,660 --> 05:14:16,530 liked to have seen that, and I know it 4222 05:14:16,530 --> 05:14:19,410 says that it is coming. I'm not sure when the 4223 05:14:19,410 --> 05:14:24,610 next reports are going to come. We've talked 4224 05:14:24,610 --> 05:14:28,070 about this before, too, about how the act 4225 05:14:28,070 --> 05:14:30,820 requires individuals to be able to live 4226 05:14:30,820 --> 05:14:32,020 independently, 4227 05:14:32,020 --> 05:14:34,800 but being able to assess this seems to be a 4228 05:14:34,800 --> 05:14:39,460 challenge. But it's having devastating impacts. 4229 05:14:39,460 --> 05:14:41,400 It's having devastating impacts on the people who 4230 05:14:41,400 --> 05:14:43,050 are living in these houses, and they're 4231 05:14:43,050 --> 05:14:46,530 not able to live independently, the people who 4232 05:14:46,530 --> 05:14:49,750 live near them, the cooperative housing 4233 05:14:49,750 --> 05:14:52,950 buildings that are trying to maintain these 4234 05:14:52,950 --> 05:14:57,440 buildings, and in the neighborhood quite frankly. 4235 05:14:57,440 --> 05:14:59,770 So in here it says that there's challenges 4236 05:14:59,770 --> 05:15:02,380 related to mental health related behaviors, 4237 05:15:02,380 --> 05:15:04,710 substance use and addiction, hoarding and extreme 4238 05:15:04,710 --> 05:15:06,680 clutter behaviors, aggressive conflicts 4239 05:15:06,680 --> 05:15:09,010 with others, cognitive or developmental 4240 05:15:09,010 --> 05:15:11,670 challenges, social isolation and disengagement, 4241 05:15:11,670 --> 05:15:12,450 trauma-related 4242 05:15:12,450 --> 05:15:15,750 behaviors in general non-compliance with tenancy 4243 05:15:15,750 --> 05:15:18,430 obligations that are leading to a loss of housing 4244 05:15:18,430 --> 05:15:18,530 . 4245 05:15:18,430 --> 05:15:22,470 It says many traditional housing providers are 4246 05:15:22,470 --> 05:15:25,390 not designed to deliver the required housing 4247 05:15:25,390 --> 05:15:28,580 that many on the waitlist now need and about how 4248 05:15:28,580 --> 05:15:31,220 there's staff are going to need to go through 4249 05:15:31,220 --> 05:15:34,530 the waitlist and try to reassess and reevaluate 4250 05:15:34,530 --> 05:15:36,940 that which is crucial and I'm looking forward 4251 05:15:36,940 --> 05:15:39,420 to hearing how we can support with that, but the 4252 05:15:39,420 --> 05:15:44,130 immediate need is how do we stop putting people 4253 05:15:44,130 --> 05:15:47,230 into these buildings who really just are not 4254 05:15:47,230 --> 05:15:50,220 capable of living independently and need those 4255 05:15:50,220 --> 05:15:53,090 additional supports. Stopping that is what I was 4256 05:15:53,090 --> 05:15:55,580 hoping to see in this report, was that what we 4257 05:15:55,580 --> 05:15:59,840 had done with the change in in ratio was working 4258 05:15:59,840 --> 05:16:03,420 when I talked to some of the housing providers 4259 05:16:03,420 --> 05:16:05,990 they're saying that they're still finding, even 4260 05:16:05,990 --> 05:16:09,040 with like taking really great care around 4261 05:16:09,040 --> 05:16:11,860 assessing the people themselves off of the wait 4262 05:16:11,860 --> 05:16:14,840 list, they're still finding that 40% of 4263 05:16:14,840 --> 05:16:18,110 the people that they're putting into the building 4264 05:16:18,110 --> 05:16:21,650 are really having devastating impacts. 4265 05:16:21,650 --> 05:16:23,550 That's just not sustainable. 4266 05:16:23,550 --> 05:16:26,040 And we're seeing that in the toll pedal situation 4267 05:16:26,040 --> 05:16:26,280 . 4268 05:16:26,280 --> 05:16:27,270 We're seeing it. 4269 05:16:27,270 --> 05:16:29,890 I'm hearing about it in others. 4270 05:16:29,890 --> 05:16:32,500 report that we got back said that I don't know if 4271 05:16:32,500 --> 05:16:36,640 it was 25% of the buildings were you 4272 05:16:36,640 --> 05:16:40,120 know at risk and we're only just looking at one 4273 05:16:40,120 --> 05:16:42,770 what is the depth of the issues that 4274 05:16:42,770 --> 05:16:46,130 we're facing at 122 baseline and I'm not even 4275 05:16:46,130 --> 05:16:49,620 sure if it's an RGI housing but it's on this 4276 05:16:49,620 --> 05:16:53,570 wait list issue and in terms of placing people. 4277 05:16:53,570 --> 05:16:57,650 We created brand new affordable housing and what 4278 05:16:57,650 --> 05:17:00,470 's I believe understood is based on bad 4279 05:17:00,470 --> 05:17:03,810 tenancy profile and placing people who couldn't 4280 05:17:03,810 --> 05:17:07,520 live there independently. We have ourselves 4281 05:17:07,520 --> 05:17:10,920 lost affordable housing units. A one-bedroom that 4282 05:17:10,920 --> 05:17:15,470 used to be $592 a month is now 1,039. 4283 05:17:15,470 --> 05:17:20,170 A two-bedroom that was 689 is 1,238. A three- 4284 05:17:20,170 --> 05:17:24,110 bedroom that was 709 is now $1490. And this 4285 05:17:24,110 --> 05:17:28,290 This is our affordable housing by guns are in the 4286 05:17:28,290 --> 05:17:31,130 past, but we can't afford this. 4287 05:17:31,130 --> 05:17:32,510 We all want affordable housing. 4288 05:17:32,510 --> 05:17:33,820 We want to maintain it. 4289 05:17:33,820 --> 05:17:36,190 We have to identify the problem and fix it. 4290 05:17:36,190 --> 05:17:38,630 I'll be voting against this report because I just 4291 05:17:38,630 --> 05:17:40,570 don't feel I have the answers that 4292 05:17:40,570 --> 05:17:43,370 I'm looking for. 4293 05:17:43,370 --> 05:17:44,280 Other speakers to this? 4294 05:17:44,280 --> 05:17:47,550 Okay. 4295 05:17:47,550 --> 05:17:48,510 Seeing none, we're going to open this for voting. 4296 05:17:48,510 --> 05:18:03,720 Opposed in the vote. Motion carries 12 to 1. 4297 05:18:03,720 --> 05:18:10,350 >> Thank you. I'll look to put item 7, 2.7, the 4298 05:18:10,350 --> 05:18:12,290 approval of service agreements with White Oak 4299 05:18:12,290 --> 05:18:15,160 Heritage Housing Corporation, Inc. on the floor. 4300 05:18:15,160 --> 05:18:18,370 >> Okay, that's on the floor. I'll look for any 4301 05:18:18,370 --> 05:18:21,060 speakers. Go ahead, Councillor Stevenson. 4302 05:18:21,060 --> 05:18:23,360 >> It's me again. I'll try to keep it shorter 4303 05:18:23,360 --> 05:18:25,390 this time. And for the clerks, although I'm going 4304 05:18:25,390 --> 05:18:27,180 to be voting against this, I don't need the bill 4305 05:18:27,180 --> 05:18:28,240 pulled separately. 4306 05:18:28,240 --> 05:18:31,470 And this, I just want to be clear too that my 4307 05:18:31,470 --> 05:18:34,050 vote against this is in no way disparaging 4308 05:18:34,050 --> 05:18:36,940 this white oak heritage housing cooperative ink. 4309 05:18:36,940 --> 05:18:40,730 It's consistent with my past votes, no against 4310 05:18:40,730 --> 05:18:42,470 these agreements. 4311 05:18:42,470 --> 05:18:45,520 And my concern is that I just don't have 4312 05:18:45,520 --> 05:18:48,440 confidence in the system. 4313 05:18:48,440 --> 05:18:50,760 I feel like the system is broken, the model is 4314 05:18:50,760 --> 05:18:53,140 broken, what we're doing isn't working. 4315 05:18:53,140 --> 05:18:56,060 And until I can feel confident that we're moving 4316 05:18:56,060 --> 05:18:58,360 in the right direction and we've dealt 4317 05:18:58,360 --> 05:19:00,670 with the issues. I'm not going to continue to 4318 05:19:00,670 --> 05:19:02,990 support this. I did want to point out that 4319 05:19:02,990 --> 05:19:06,350 I loved on page 99 that it says we're going to 4320 05:19:06,350 --> 05:19:08,840 have a public web page that's going to 4321 05:19:08,840 --> 05:19:11,150 have the agreements and subsequent amendments and 4322 05:19:11,150 --> 05:19:12,830 be available publicly. So I just wanted 4323 05:19:12,830 --> 05:19:16,040 to say thank you for that. But we're talking 4324 05:19:16,040 --> 05:19:19,510 about hundreds of millions of dollars a year 4325 05:19:19,510 --> 05:19:23,220 for this one cooperative housing building. And we 4326 05:19:23,220 --> 05:19:25,630 're looking at them contributing to their 4327 05:19:25,630 --> 05:19:30,820 capital reserve fund. $378 million in year one. $ 4328 05:19:30,820 --> 05:19:36,950 385,000. I apologize. I apologize. 4329 05:19:36,950 --> 05:19:42,610 That makes a big difference. $378,000, $385,000. 4330 05:19:42,610 --> 05:19:45,030 The point was to meet their capital shortfall 4331 05:19:45,030 --> 05:19:48,830 of $2.5 million over the five years, which I get. 4332 05:19:48,830 --> 05:19:50,840 But it's hundreds of thousands. It's 4333 05:19:50,840 --> 05:19:54,030 late after 6 p.m. I'm doing millions instead of 4334 05:19:54,030 --> 05:19:55,850 thousands. We're talking about hundreds 4335 05:19:55,850 --> 05:19:58,600 of thousands of dollars each year of taxpayer 4336 05:19:58,600 --> 05:20:02,690 money that's going to organizations that are 4337 05:20:02,690 --> 05:20:05,790 now going to be making capital investments, 4338 05:20:05,790 --> 05:20:09,410 spending big contracts, I'm just nervous. 4339 05:20:09,410 --> 05:20:11,870 And it could be just a lack of information on my 4340 05:20:11,870 --> 05:20:13,830 part, I still need to dig into it, but 4341 05:20:13,830 --> 05:20:18,000 I'm concerned about the governance, the oversight 4342 05:20:18,000 --> 05:20:21,080 , the risk of fraud, the risk of making bad 4343 05:20:21,080 --> 05:20:23,900 decisions with this money and like I said nothing 4344 05:20:23,900 --> 05:20:24,980 to do with this cooperative 4345 05:20:24,980 --> 05:20:27,970 specifically my concern is with the system in the 4346 05:20:27,970 --> 05:20:29,080 model and until I have 4347 05:20:29,080 --> 05:20:35,380 confidence I'm going to be voting no. Other 4348 05:20:35,380 --> 05:20:38,410 speakers okay seeing none we'll 4349 05:20:38,410 --> 05:20:51,420 open this for voting. Was in the vote motion 4350 05:20:51,420 --> 05:20:56,020 carries 12 to 1. Councillor 4351 05:20:56,020 --> 05:20:58,660 Ramen. Thank you and I'll look to put item 10 4352 05:20:58,660 --> 05:21:00,800 which is 4.2 the report back on 4353 05:21:00,800 --> 05:21:03,110 basic needs and pathway options feasibility of 4354 05:21:03,110 --> 05:21:04,660 contract extension 519 4355 05:21:04,660 --> 05:21:06,860 pursuits umbrella relief programs on the floor. 4356 05:21:06,860 --> 05:21:08,930 Okay that's on the floor I'll 4357 05:21:08,930 --> 05:21:15,440 look to speakers for that. Go ahead, Councillor 4358 05:21:15,440 --> 05:21:18,110 Stevenson. 4359 05:21:18,110 --> 05:21:21,720 Okay, me again then. So for this one, I just want 4360 05:21:21,720 --> 05:21:23,940 to be really clear. This is nothing 4361 05:21:23,940 --> 05:21:26,720 negative about the agencies who are doing amazing 4362 05:21:26,720 --> 05:21:29,270 work with their staff, with their volunteers, 4363 05:21:29,270 --> 05:21:31,590 meeting a desperate and dire need that's out 4364 05:21:31,590 --> 05:21:33,800 there, that they're witnessing firsthand, 4365 05:21:33,800 --> 05:21:36,290 that they're doing everything that they can to 4366 05:21:36,290 --> 05:21:39,970 address that need, to fight for the plight 4367 05:21:39,970 --> 05:21:42,310 of people out there. And they're doing what they 4368 05:21:42,310 --> 05:21:44,380 need to do coming here and asking us for money. 4369 05:21:44,380 --> 05:21:48,340 So I just this idea that I'm not wanting 4370 05:21:48,340 --> 05:21:50,650 that I don't honor the work that's being done out 4371 05:21:50,650 --> 05:21:50,910 there. 4372 05:21:50,910 --> 05:21:52,810 I just wanna make perfectly clear 4373 05:21:52,810 --> 05:21:55,130 that I honor all the work that is being done out 4374 05:21:55,130 --> 05:21:55,230 there 4375 05:21:55,150 --> 05:21:57,340 by everybody. 4376 05:21:57,340 --> 05:22:01,860 My concern is the system and the model that we're 4377 05:22:01,860 --> 05:22:02,330 using 4378 05:22:02,330 --> 05:22:05,300 and the lack of confidence that I have to do my 4379 05:22:05,300 --> 05:22:05,890 job, 4380 05:22:05,890 --> 05:22:09,440 which is to make funding decisions 4381 05:22:09,440 --> 05:22:12,360 and I feel that we don't have the information. 4382 05:22:12,360 --> 05:22:14,960 We knew this funding was short term. 4383 05:22:14,960 --> 05:22:17,100 We knew it was coming to an end. 4384 05:22:17,100 --> 05:22:20,790 We knew the need was going to continue. 4385 05:22:20,790 --> 05:22:23,350 These agencies are dealing with all kinds of 4386 05:22:23,350 --> 05:22:23,950 uncertainty 4387 05:22:23,950 --> 05:22:25,430 every single day. 4388 05:22:25,430 --> 05:22:27,750 This is an uncertainty that I don't think 4389 05:22:27,750 --> 05:22:29,880 needed to come to us this way. 4390 05:22:29,880 --> 05:22:32,370 I feel like it should have been very clear months 4391 05:22:32,370 --> 05:22:33,040 ago 4392 05:22:33,040 --> 05:22:34,810 that the funding was going to end 4393 05:22:34,810 --> 05:22:37,610 or that the motion was gonna come to council 4394 05:22:37,610 --> 05:22:39,190 and ask us for the funding. 4395 05:22:39,190 --> 05:22:41,900 This could have been done months ago. 4396 05:22:41,900 --> 05:22:44,340 So to be dealing with this after the fact 4397 05:22:44,340 --> 05:22:47,150 that the funding has already run out 4398 05:22:47,150 --> 05:22:49,680 and that we've got uncertainty in the vulnerable 4399 05:22:49,680 --> 05:22:50,500 population. 4400 05:22:50,500 --> 05:22:52,440 I have a problem with it. 4401 05:22:52,440 --> 05:22:57,020 The funding that ran out, we had a bunch of them. 4402 05:22:57,020 --> 05:22:58,870 It wasn't just these two. 4403 05:22:58,870 --> 05:23:02,130 We had the London Cares 602 Queens 4404 05:23:02,130 --> 05:23:04,950 that received 437,000. 4405 05:23:04,950 --> 05:23:07,730 I've emailed staff and I found out that the 4406 05:23:07,730 --> 05:23:08,560 previous year 4407 05:23:08,560 --> 05:23:11,620 it was done through life stabilization funding. 4408 05:23:11,620 --> 05:23:14,440 Then in last year it was done through this 4409 05:23:14,440 --> 05:23:15,960 temporary funding. 4410 05:23:15,960 --> 05:23:17,840 Now they've found the money through life 4411 05:23:17,840 --> 05:23:23,040 stabilization again, but I'm I didn't know this. 4412 05:23:23,040 --> 05:23:23,160 The 4413 05:23:23,160 --> 05:23:26,710 at Losa also had two full-time equivalents for 4414 05:23:26,710 --> 05:23:29,290 their outreach funded through this temporary 4415 05:23:29,290 --> 05:23:31,780 funding. Have they been able to continue? Did 4416 05:23:31,780 --> 05:23:36,610 their funding end? I don't know. We have been 4417 05:23:36,610 --> 05:23:37,070 told 4418 05:23:37,070 --> 05:23:40,780 that there's a funding cliff coming. We know that 4419 05:23:40,780 --> 05:23:43,480 and we also have predictions from the agencies 4420 05:23:43,480 --> 05:23:45,920 from staff. Everyone says the problem is going to 4421 05:23:45,920 --> 05:23:48,590 get worse. I have a difficult time making 4422 05:23:48,590 --> 05:23:49,760 decisions 4423 05:23:49,760 --> 05:23:53,090 in little piecemeal bits where it's coming from 4424 05:23:53,090 --> 05:23:56,250 motions from colleagues that maybe sympathize 4425 05:23:56,250 --> 05:23:58,570 with an agency. I'm not sure where this is coming 4426 05:23:58,570 --> 05:24:01,680 from, but we have one that we supported to say 4427 05:24:01,680 --> 05:24:04,430 come back and now it's come out of committee with 4428 05:24:04,430 --> 05:24:07,070 another agency with funding. So I look at the 4429 05:24:07,070 --> 05:24:09,370 added agenda to see if another colleague added 4430 05:24:09,370 --> 05:24:11,480 another agency or is somebody going to bring it 4431 05:24:11,480 --> 05:24:14,180 on the floor? Is this this doesn't feel like a 4432 05:24:14,180 --> 05:24:16,710 well-run city? It doesn't feel like a well- 4433 05:24:16,710 --> 05:24:17,180 managed 4434 05:24:17,180 --> 05:24:22,460 crisis. I want to know what are the needs? What 4435 05:24:22,460 --> 05:24:25,620 are the gaps? What are we prioritizing? What's 4436 05:24:25,620 --> 05:24:28,110 coming in the next year? We've got winter 4437 05:24:28,110 --> 05:24:31,240 response coming in June with options to us. Are 4438 05:24:31,240 --> 05:24:31,560 we going 4439 05:24:31,560 --> 05:24:34,380 to have the funding for that? What was the 300, 4440 05:24:34,380 --> 05:24:37,350 000 in the reserve fund originally planned for? 4441 05:24:37,350 --> 05:24:37,730 Because 4442 05:24:37,730 --> 05:24:41,880 staff and the whole of community system response 4443 05:24:41,880 --> 05:24:44,810 have not come to us and said we should continue 4444 05:24:44,810 --> 05:24:47,980 this funding. We got a staff report months ago 4445 05:24:47,980 --> 05:24:49,390 saying the funding was going to end. We're 4446 05:24:49,390 --> 05:24:49,720 letting 4447 05:24:49,720 --> 05:24:53,670 you know. There was no direction, no advice given 4448 05:24:53,670 --> 05:24:57,240 to continue it. And now before council, 4449 05:24:57,240 --> 05:24:59,650 we're making a decision as to whether to continue 4450 05:24:59,650 --> 05:25:02,530 it or not. And somehow if we vote no, it's like, 4451 05:25:02,530 --> 05:25:05,110 oh, we don't think they deserve the money when 4452 05:25:05,110 --> 05:25:09,760 that's not how I feel. But how are we making 4453 05:25:09,760 --> 05:25:14,810 decisions? How are we assessing the need? And we 4454 05:25:14,810 --> 05:25:17,910 still haven't addressed the issue of the drop-in 4455 05:25:17,910 --> 05:25:23,100 service in Old East Village. So for three years 4456 05:25:23,100 --> 05:25:25,560 now, I've been saying it's a 4457 05:25:25,560 --> 05:25:28,330 problem. It's not working. We've talked about 4458 05:25:28,330 --> 05:25:29,800 good neighbor agreement that got 4459 05:25:29,800 --> 05:25:35,850 rejected. When compassion needs to be widespread, 4460 05:25:35,850 --> 05:25:37,690 we've got taxpayers and 4461 05:25:37,690 --> 05:25:42,360 residents and seniors and people on ODSP and OW 4462 05:25:42,360 --> 05:25:46,530 living right there. Every single 4463 05:25:46,530 --> 05:25:52,450 day, they are emailing me in tears. As a city 4464 05:25:52,450 --> 05:25:54,510 counselor, as a ward counselor, I can't 4465 05:25:54,510 --> 05:25:59,360 support this. I want better solutions. I want to 4466 05:25:59,360 --> 05:26:02,800 hear from and be a part of it. I just want 4467 05:26:02,800 --> 05:26:05,650 to say in terms of the drop-in service, we're 4468 05:26:05,650 --> 05:26:08,230 meeting with Arcade and Kevin from the Old 4469 05:26:08,230 --> 05:26:10,560 East Village BIA and myself. We already have a 4470 05:26:10,560 --> 05:26:12,890 meeting booked. I appreciated Sarah reaching 4471 05:26:12,890 --> 05:26:15,680 out to me. Hopefully, out of that will come some 4472 05:26:15,680 --> 05:26:17,830 suggestions. I'm assuming this is going 4473 05:26:17,830 --> 05:26:20,860 to pass, but we can't continue the way that we're 4474 05:26:20,860 --> 05:26:22,880 going. It's unfair to the people who 4475 05:26:22,880 --> 05:26:25,210 live in that area, so I hope to be bringing 4476 05:26:25,210 --> 05:26:26,950 forward solutions in the future. 4477 05:26:26,950 --> 05:26:32,410 Okay. Other speakers? I have Councillor ramen. I 4478 05:26:32,410 --> 05:26:36,430 'll look for other speakers after that. 4479 05:26:36,430 --> 05:26:43,030 Thank you. And through you, a well-managed crisis 4480 05:26:43,030 --> 05:26:47,150 is an oxymoron to me. Let me just 4481 05:26:47,150 --> 05:26:52,180 say that the reason that the letter that was part 4482 05:26:52,180 --> 05:26:55,460 and parcel of the caps agenda was in front 4483 05:26:55,460 --> 05:26:58,230 of us was because of the federal government 4484 05:26:58,230 --> 05:27:00,930 announcement that came out on April 1st. 4485 05:27:00,930 --> 05:27:04,350 So it was a response to that announcement that 4486 05:27:04,350 --> 05:27:07,860 there was potentially a way forward where 4487 05:27:07,860 --> 05:27:08,880 organizations 4488 05:27:08,880 --> 05:27:11,380 can access funding. 4489 05:27:11,380 --> 05:27:16,190 And so that $125 million announcement didn't come 4490 05:27:16,190 --> 05:27:18,800 with a lot of details yet. 4491 05:27:18,800 --> 05:27:23,200 And so as we await the details, we have a number 4492 05:27:23,200 --> 05:27:26,900 of organizations that had come forward, had 4493 05:27:26,900 --> 05:27:30,970 been repeatedly coming to engage in conversation 4494 05:27:30,970 --> 05:27:35,290 about what are the funding options available. 4495 05:27:35,290 --> 05:27:39,760 And so what's in front of us today is a way for 4496 05:27:39,760 --> 05:27:45,050 us to move forward alongside these organizations 4497 05:27:45,050 --> 05:27:49,080 with some monthly commitments until such time as 4498 05:27:49,080 --> 05:27:51,880 that UHEI funding or other funding from the 4499 05:27:51,880 --> 05:27:53,250 province or federal government is 4500 05:27:53,250 --> 05:27:56,220 realized because this money is coming from 4501 05:27:56,220 --> 05:28:00,880 reserve funds. And so it gives us a way forward 4502 05:28:00,880 --> 05:28:06,280 with an up-to-limit of about 350,000 and again 4503 05:28:06,280 --> 05:28:08,610 the drawdown from that social service reserve 4504 05:28:08,610 --> 05:28:11,220 fund added to that motion. Councilor Hopkins 4505 05:28:11,220 --> 05:28:14,160 amended to add that conversation with other 4506 05:28:14,160 --> 05:28:16,490 organizations which staff said they would 4507 05:28:16,490 --> 05:28:22,370 continue to have so so again I agree this feels 4508 05:28:22,370 --> 05:28:22,570 like 4509 05:28:22,570 --> 05:28:26,600 an imperfect situation it feels like a response 4510 05:28:26,600 --> 05:28:32,750 that maybe came at the last minute but sometimes 4511 05:28:32,750 --> 05:28:35,530 when things are out of our hands from a funding 4512 05:28:35,530 --> 05:28:38,470 perspective we have to pivot and find a way 4513 05:28:38,470 --> 05:28:40,650 and this was a way for us to do so so I'm hoping 4514 05:28:40,650 --> 05:28:43,630 my colleagues will support what's in front of us 4515 05:28:43,630 --> 05:28:48,420 I know that many of my colleagues are having 4516 05:28:48,420 --> 05:28:51,920 really good dialogue with organizations in 4517 05:28:51,920 --> 05:28:55,150 this community about the good work they're doing, 4518 05:28:55,150 --> 05:28:56,860 and they're looking to work collaboratively. 4519 05:28:56,860 --> 05:28:58,770 So I really appreciate that effort. 4520 05:28:58,770 --> 05:29:00,640 I think that it's really important. 4521 05:29:00,640 --> 05:29:03,740 It's the way we move forward together. 4522 05:29:03,740 --> 05:29:06,890 And so, again, what's in front of us today is a 4523 05:29:06,890 --> 05:29:07,940 way forward. 4524 05:29:07,940 --> 05:29:13,080 Obviously, you know, it's a step in a direction, 4525 05:29:13,080 --> 05:29:16,650 but it's not the full answer. 4526 05:29:16,650 --> 05:29:18,230 We need more support. 4527 05:29:18,230 --> 05:29:21,850 We hear that continuously in order to, 4528 05:29:21,850 --> 05:29:24,710 and we need, sorry, consistent support 4529 05:29:24,710 --> 05:29:27,890 in order for us to help address some of these 4530 05:29:27,890 --> 05:29:32,320 bigger problems. 4531 05:29:32,320 --> 05:29:33,250 - Okay, I have myself next, 4532 05:29:33,250 --> 05:29:36,980 so I'll turn the chair over to Councillor Lehman. 4533 05:29:36,980 --> 05:29:39,770 Thank you, please go ahead, Mayor. 4534 05:29:39,770 --> 05:29:42,080 - Yes, so I appreciate the comments by my 4535 05:29:42,080 --> 05:29:42,840 colleagues. 4536 05:29:42,840 --> 05:29:44,960 I wanna echo a couple of things that Councillor 4537 05:29:44,960 --> 05:29:45,410 Ramen said 4538 05:29:45,410 --> 05:29:49,790 at the end there, good of a challenging situation 4539 05:29:49,790 --> 05:29:53,520 when there's a funding announcement for renewal 4540 05:29:53,520 --> 05:29:53,860 of funding 4541 05:29:53,860 --> 05:29:55,210 after the funding has ended. 4542 05:29:55,210 --> 05:29:58,260 It creates gaps in a system and creates a 4543 05:29:58,260 --> 05:29:58,900 tremendous strain 4544 05:29:58,900 --> 05:30:01,690 on those who could potentially benefit from the 4545 05:30:01,690 --> 05:30:02,600 funding. 4546 05:30:02,600 --> 05:30:06,580 I wanna go back though to the genesis of UAGI 4547 05:30:06,580 --> 05:30:07,620 renewal, 4548 05:30:07,620 --> 05:30:12,190 leading up to meetings that the federal big city 4549 05:30:12,190 --> 05:30:12,490 mayors 4550 05:30:12,490 --> 05:30:14,820 had in Ottawa with Prime Minister Mark Carney and 4551 05:30:14,820 --> 05:30:15,350 his team, 4552 05:30:15,350 --> 05:30:18,130 I met with all the various agencies in the city 4553 05:30:18,130 --> 05:30:22,410 who were utilizing the previous funding in 4554 05:30:22,410 --> 05:30:23,420 conjunction 4555 05:30:23,420 --> 05:30:24,890 with support of our staff to say, 4556 05:30:24,890 --> 05:30:28,420 we're going to go advocate for necessary funding 4557 05:30:28,420 --> 05:30:29,610 that the federal government has put on place 4558 05:30:29,610 --> 05:30:31,560 and the renewal of that funding might be under 4559 05:30:31,560 --> 05:30:32,070 this program, 4560 05:30:32,070 --> 05:30:33,150 might be a renewal of the program, 4561 05:30:33,150 --> 05:30:36,490 might be an increase to reaching home funding. 4562 05:30:36,490 --> 05:30:38,870 But what are the impacts on the work 4563 05:30:38,870 --> 05:30:41,330 that you're doing of this funding ending? 4564 05:30:41,330 --> 05:30:43,040 a number of them have been mentioned today, 4565 05:30:43,040 --> 05:30:46,010 and there's a variety of organizations impacted. 4566 05:30:46,010 --> 05:30:49,560 But I wanna commend, although it would have been 4567 05:30:49,560 --> 05:30:49,820 great 4568 05:30:49,820 --> 05:30:51,470 to have the announcement a little sooner 4569 05:30:51,470 --> 05:30:52,280 than the end of the funding, 4570 05:30:52,280 --> 05:30:53,390 and I wanna commend the federal government 4571 05:30:53,390 --> 05:30:55,280 for actually renewing the funding. 4572 05:30:55,280 --> 05:30:58,500 And I wanna credit the big city mayors federally 4573 05:30:58,500 --> 05:31:00,200 for their advocacy on this, 4574 05:31:00,200 --> 05:31:01,700 particularly the mayor of Montreal 4575 05:31:01,700 --> 05:31:05,080 who essentially spearheaded some of our advocacy 4576 05:31:05,080 --> 05:31:08,030 with the federal government on this, 4577 05:31:08,030 --> 05:31:11,260 given the impacts that her city is also facing, 4578 05:31:11,260 --> 05:31:12,960 and the agencies in her city 4579 05:31:12,960 --> 05:31:15,210 and the way that they're using this funding. 4580 05:31:15,210 --> 05:31:18,220 So again, I agree with Council Raman. 4581 05:31:18,220 --> 05:31:22,040 We deal with many imperfect situations all the 4582 05:31:22,040 --> 05:31:22,840 time. 4583 05:31:22,840 --> 05:31:24,910 To know that funding is going to be renewed, 4584 05:31:24,910 --> 05:31:25,950 but not have a lot of detail, 4585 05:31:25,950 --> 05:31:29,390 puts us in a very difficult situation to try to 4586 05:31:29,390 --> 05:31:29,930 find ways 4587 05:31:29,930 --> 05:31:32,980 to allow agencies to continue their work, 4588 05:31:32,980 --> 05:31:35,250 recognizing that we don't want to backfill 4589 05:31:35,250 --> 05:31:36,530 federal dollars 4590 05:31:36,530 --> 05:31:37,950 on an ongoing basis. 4591 05:31:37,950 --> 05:31:39,680 But we do want to position ourselves very well 4592 05:31:39,680 --> 05:31:41,540 to try to get those dollars. 4593 05:31:41,540 --> 05:31:45,490 And I want to thank Ms. Campbell and others who, 4594 05:31:45,490 --> 05:31:48,490 when they said, what can we do to help, 4595 05:31:48,490 --> 05:31:52,120 my response was help us advocate to other levels 4596 05:31:52,120 --> 05:31:54,840 of government to try to secure dollars. 4597 05:31:54,840 --> 05:31:57,300 Ideally, permanent long-term stable dollars 4598 05:31:57,300 --> 05:31:59,210 so that we're not in this situation time and time 4599 05:31:59,210 --> 05:32:00,000 again. 4600 05:32:00,000 --> 05:32:01,940 And so to their credit, I appreciate the work 4601 05:32:01,940 --> 05:32:03,570 that they've done in that advocacy piece 4602 05:32:03,570 --> 05:32:05,990 to meet with others and to share their voices. 4603 05:32:05,990 --> 05:32:11,460 It is difficult for the municipality to be in a 4604 05:32:11,460 --> 05:32:12,020 situation 4605 05:32:12,020 --> 05:32:13,290 where we do not have enough resources 4606 05:32:13,290 --> 05:32:15,300 to do all the good things we want to do. 4607 05:32:15,300 --> 05:32:17,810 And we come out with situations and motions 4608 05:32:17,810 --> 05:32:19,890 that sometimes are not perfect and could, you 4609 05:32:19,890 --> 05:32:20,030 know, 4610 05:32:20,030 --> 05:32:22,360 could be better or could be five different 4611 05:32:22,360 --> 05:32:23,100 versions of it. 4612 05:32:23,100 --> 05:32:25,290 But I think the motion that's on the floor before 4613 05:32:25,290 --> 05:32:25,400 you 4614 05:32:25,400 --> 05:32:26,840 recognizes a couple of things. 4615 05:32:26,840 --> 05:32:29,080 One, the ongoing need in our community 4616 05:32:29,080 --> 05:32:30,510 for the services that we're being provided 4617 05:32:30,510 --> 05:32:31,860 under the federal funding. 4618 05:32:31,860 --> 05:32:34,810 Two, that the municipality can't be the long-term 4619 05:32:34,810 --> 05:32:37,080 funder of this, which is why there's a cap on it 4620 05:32:37,080 --> 05:32:38,790 and why there is a desire that should we achieve 4621 05:32:38,790 --> 05:32:41,620 the funding to restore the reserve fund with the 4622 05:32:41,620 --> 05:32:41,890 dollar 4623 05:32:41,890 --> 05:32:43,880 that we can use it for other priorities that we 4624 05:32:43,880 --> 05:32:45,630 know we already have in the city and support 4625 05:32:45,630 --> 05:32:49,320 other work in the space. And three, the need for 4626 05:32:49,320 --> 05:32:52,370 continued advocacy on this at all levels of 4627 05:32:52,370 --> 05:32:54,840 government. This is only a challenge that will be 4628 05:32:54,840 --> 05:32:56,920 solved when we can all get on the same page, 4629 05:32:56,920 --> 05:32:59,250 when we can all pull in the same direction. I 4630 05:32:59,250 --> 05:33:01,540 appreciate Councillor Hopkins work at AMO, 4631 05:33:01,540 --> 05:33:03,870 appreciate the work of my colleagues across the 4632 05:33:03,870 --> 05:33:06,330 country at Big City Mayors and through the FCM, 4633 05:33:06,330 --> 05:33:08,660 but also the work of agencies and Councillors in 4634 05:33:08,660 --> 05:33:11,270 the city to advocate to our local representatives 4635 05:33:11,270 --> 05:33:14,060 for the resources that are necessary, and we will 4636 05:33:14,060 --> 05:33:15,620 take steps forward when we pull in 4637 05:33:15,620 --> 05:33:16,740 the same direction. 4638 05:33:16,740 --> 05:33:19,160 This is absolutely necessary federal funding, but 4639 05:33:19,160 --> 05:33:20,920 it is great that they renewed it, and 4640 05:33:20,920 --> 05:33:24,490 I have to say the city of London and the agencies 4641 05:33:24,490 --> 05:33:27,320 here desperately need to secure our 4642 05:33:27,320 --> 05:33:29,130 share of it to continue the work that's being 4643 05:33:29,130 --> 05:33:29,920 done in our city. 4644 05:33:29,920 --> 05:33:33,150 So the motion today is just one step to give us 4645 05:33:33,150 --> 05:33:36,020 some time to do that advocacy, but I want 4646 05:33:36,020 --> 05:33:37,020 to be clear. 4647 05:33:37,020 --> 05:33:39,350 The work is not done to try to encourage the 4648 05:33:39,350 --> 05:33:41,230 federal government to say, "You need to 4649 05:33:41,230 --> 05:33:42,910 to flow these dollars as you did before, 4650 05:33:42,910 --> 05:33:44,970 into the communities that were utilizing them 4651 05:33:44,970 --> 05:33:46,960 for the work that was being done, 4652 05:33:46,960 --> 05:33:48,730 because that is where the gap is, 4653 05:33:48,730 --> 05:33:59,000 and that is where the gap has to be filled. 4654 05:33:59,000 --> 05:33:59,840 - Steve, I'm gonna need that chair. 4655 05:33:59,840 --> 05:34:02,270 - Sorry, I'm gonna return the chair to you. 4656 05:34:02,270 --> 05:34:03,550 - Thank you. 4657 05:34:03,550 --> 05:34:07,390 I'll go to any other speakers on this. 4658 05:34:07,390 --> 05:34:09,300 Okay, then we have the committee's recommendation 4659 05:34:09,300 --> 05:34:24,530 before us, we'll open that for voting. 4660 05:34:24,530 --> 05:34:28,180 - Posing the vote, motion carries 12 to one. 4661 05:34:28,180 --> 05:34:29,010 - Councillor ramen. 4662 05:34:29,010 --> 05:34:31,860 - Thank you, that concludes my report. 4663 05:34:31,860 --> 05:34:35,260 - Okay, we're on to added reports, 4664 05:34:35,260 --> 05:34:39,630 And I have, I think he volunteered kind of, 4665 05:34:39,630 --> 05:34:43,070 Councilor McAllister volunteered to read out 4666 05:34:43,070 --> 05:34:44,530 the report out of closed session, 4667 05:34:44,530 --> 05:34:47,750 and there are two items that Councilor McAllister 4668 05:34:47,750 --> 05:34:49,780 will present today. 4669 05:34:49,780 --> 05:34:50,590 - Thank you, Your Worship. 4670 05:34:50,590 --> 05:34:52,540 If I volunteered to be in the piece of paper 4671 05:34:52,540 --> 05:34:54,390 that was put in front of me, then yes. 4672 05:34:54,390 --> 05:34:55,720 Here we go. 4673 05:34:55,720 --> 05:34:58,710 This is the central report of Council in closed 4674 05:34:58,710 --> 05:34:59,400 session. 4675 05:34:59,400 --> 05:35:01,510 This is number one, property acquisition 141 4676 05:35:01,510 --> 05:35:04,270 Highbury Avenue, North Highbury Avenue 4677 05:35:04,270 --> 05:35:06,090 and Hamilton Road intersection improvement 4678 05:35:06,090 --> 05:35:06,660 project 4679 05:35:06,660 --> 05:35:08,260 that on the recommendation of the deputy city 4680 05:35:08,260 --> 05:35:08,650 manager, 4681 05:35:08,650 --> 05:35:10,490 finance supports with the concurrence 4682 05:35:10,490 --> 05:35:12,050 of deputy city manager environment and 4683 05:35:12,050 --> 05:35:12,920 infrastructure. 4684 05:35:12,920 --> 05:35:14,390 On the advice of the director, 4685 05:35:14,390 --> 05:35:16,350 Realty Services with respect to the acquisition 4686 05:35:16,350 --> 05:35:19,100 of property located at 141 Highbury Avenue North, 4687 05:35:19,100 --> 05:35:21,010 and the city of London further described 4688 05:35:21,010 --> 05:35:24,560 as South 22 feet on lot 142, 4689 05:35:24,560 --> 05:35:28,300 North 22 feet on lot 143, plan 511, 4690 05:35:28,300 --> 05:35:30,770 in the city of London County of Middlesex, 4691 05:35:30,770 --> 05:35:35,880 being all of pin 08340-0247, 4692 05:35:36,790 --> 05:35:41,420 containing an area of approximately 0.1 acres 4693 05:35:41,420 --> 05:35:45,870 as shown on the location, a map as appendix B 4694 05:35:45,870 --> 05:35:47,260 for the purpose of future improvements 4695 05:35:47,260 --> 05:35:48,890 to accommodate Highbury Avenue 4696 05:35:48,890 --> 05:35:50,800 in Hamilton Road intersection project. 4697 05:35:50,800 --> 05:35:52,000 The following actions be taken. 4698 05:35:52,000 --> 05:35:54,700 The offer submitted by David Ernest Wilkes 4699 05:35:54,700 --> 05:35:57,570 and Mary Louise Wilkes, the vendor to sell the 4700 05:35:57,570 --> 05:35:58,000 subject 4701 05:35:58,000 --> 05:36:00,910 property to the city for the sum of 340,000 be 4702 05:36:00,910 --> 05:36:01,430 accepted, 4703 05:36:01,430 --> 05:36:03,760 subject to the terms and conditions is set out 4704 05:36:03,760 --> 05:36:05,610 in the agreement as appendix C 4705 05:36:05,610 --> 05:36:08,580 and the financing for this acquisition be 4706 05:36:08,580 --> 05:36:08,970 approved 4707 05:36:08,970 --> 05:36:11,660 as set out in the source of financing report 4708 05:36:11,660 --> 05:36:14,080 here too as appendix A. 4709 05:36:14,080 --> 05:36:15,430 Sorry, I've tried to go as fast as I can with 4710 05:36:15,430 --> 05:36:15,580 these 4711 05:36:15,580 --> 05:36:17,830 but I'm plating a little bit here. 4712 05:36:17,830 --> 05:36:22,110 Two, Western Fair Association and City of London, 4713 05:36:22,110 --> 05:36:26,040 JAR Expo Center, Redevelopment Construction 4714 05:36:26,040 --> 05:36:27,620 and Contribution Agreement. 4715 05:36:27,620 --> 05:36:29,990 That on the recommendation of the deputy city 4716 05:36:29,990 --> 05:36:30,390 manager, 4717 05:36:30,390 --> 05:36:32,510 neighborhood and community-wide services 4718 05:36:32,510 --> 05:36:34,750 and the concurrence of the deputy city manager 4719 05:36:34,750 --> 05:36:36,700 Finance supports the following actions be taken 4720 05:36:36,700 --> 05:36:37,980 with respect to the staff report, 4721 05:36:37,980 --> 05:36:41,210 dated April 13th, 2026, related to the Expo 4722 05:36:41,210 --> 05:36:41,450 Center 4723 05:36:41,450 --> 05:36:43,780 Redevelopment Construction and Contribution 4724 05:36:43,780 --> 05:36:44,160 Agreement. 4725 05:36:44,160 --> 05:36:46,310 A, the Civic Administration be directed to apply 4726 05:36:46,310 --> 05:36:48,510 the financing for this agreement as set out 4727 05:36:48,510 --> 05:36:50,460 in the source of financing report 4728 05:36:50,460 --> 05:36:53,490 as appended to the above noted staff report. 4729 05:36:53,490 --> 05:36:55,530 B, the construction and contribution agreement 4730 05:36:55,530 --> 05:36:58,120 as appended to the above noted staff report 4731 05:36:58,120 --> 05:36:58,840 appendix B 4732 05:36:58,840 --> 05:37:01,150 between the Corporation of the City of London 4733 05:37:01,150 --> 05:37:03,380 and the Western Fair Association, 4734 05:37:03,380 --> 05:37:06,440 regarding the redevelopment and operation of 4735 05:37:06,440 --> 05:37:06,920 portion 4736 05:37:06,920 --> 05:37:09,700 of the Expo Center, formerly known as the Agripl 4737 05:37:09,700 --> 05:37:09,800 ax 4738 05:37:09,700 --> 05:37:13,430 into three core gymnasiums be authorized and 4739 05:37:13,430 --> 05:37:14,140 approved. 4740 05:37:14,140 --> 05:37:16,200 C, the mayor and the city clerk be authorized 4741 05:37:16,200 --> 05:37:18,390 execute the above noted agreement. 4742 05:37:18,390 --> 05:37:21,470 D, authority be delegated to the deputy city 4743 05:37:21,470 --> 05:37:21,710 manager 4744 05:37:21,710 --> 05:37:23,530 and neighborhood community wide services 4745 05:37:23,530 --> 05:37:25,850 or written delegate to approve the further am 4746 05:37:25,850 --> 05:37:26,150 ending 4747 05:37:26,150 --> 05:37:27,890 agreements to the above noted construction 4748 05:37:27,890 --> 05:37:29,910 and contribution agreement. 4749 05:37:29,910 --> 05:37:31,950 E, the deputy city manager neighborhood 4750 05:37:31,950 --> 05:37:34,080 and community-wide services, or written delegate 4751 05:37:34,080 --> 05:37:37,260 be authorized to undertake all administrative 4752 05:37:37,260 --> 05:37:37,510 steps 4753 05:37:37,510 --> 05:37:39,980 and execute financial reports, as required, 4754 05:37:39,980 --> 05:37:42,680 under this agreement that progress was made 4755 05:37:42,680 --> 05:37:46,860 with respect to items 4.2, 4.3, 4.4, and 4.6, 4756 05:37:46,860 --> 05:37:57,700 as noted on the public agenda, 6.2/7/ICSC6.1/6/P 4757 05:37:57,700 --> 05:37:58,350 EC, 6.1/6/6/PEC. 4758 05:38:03,580 --> 05:38:12,600 /6 / cpsc and that is it okay you get to stand up 4759 05:38:12,600 --> 05:38:13,390 Councillor because your rocks 4760 05:38:13,390 --> 05:38:16,000 so we are presenting that report I'll look for 4761 05:38:16,000 --> 05:38:18,400 any questions on both of those 4762 05:38:18,400 --> 05:38:20,260 items that colleagues might have or any 4763 05:38:20,260 --> 05:38:23,060 discussion okay we're gonna open that 4764 05:38:23,060 --> 05:38:35,250 for voting those in the vote motion carries 12 to 4765 05:38:35,250 --> 05:38:41,110 1 okay we're on to deferred 4766 05:38:41,110 --> 05:38:45,290 matters or none inquiries see any no one can for 4767 05:38:45,290 --> 05:38:46,500 me of any okay emergent 4768 05:38:46,500 --> 05:38:52,100 there are none. Okay, we're on to bylaws. So I'll 4769 05:38:52,100 --> 05:38:54,130 say eScribe is being a little 4770 05:38:54,130 --> 05:38:56,620 slow so these might take just a little longer 4771 05:38:56,620 --> 05:38:59,040 than normal but we might only have 4772 05:38:59,040 --> 05:39:01,420 nine votes depending on what people want holds. 4773 05:39:01,420 --> 05:39:02,920 Right now I have it organized as 4774 05:39:02,920 --> 05:39:08,110 Bill 181 which is from the Planning Committee, 4775 05:39:08,110 --> 05:39:09,170 the Commissioner's Road 4776 05:39:09,170 --> 05:39:11,050 Peace. That's gonna be separate and we'll do that 4777 05:39:11,050 --> 05:39:12,920 first. Then we have the items 4778 05:39:12,920 --> 05:39:15,910 related to SBPC and M2.2 which is the Housing 4779 05:39:15,910 --> 05:39:19,280 Accelerator Fund items and then 4780 05:39:19,280 --> 05:39:22,270 and I was gonna try to do everything else, 4781 05:39:22,270 --> 05:39:24,920 including the confidential items that came out of 4782 05:39:24,920 --> 05:39:25,560 CPSC 4783 05:39:25,560 --> 05:39:28,460 and ICSC that Councillor McAllister just wrote. 4784 05:39:28,460 --> 05:39:30,830 If you want something separate beyond that, 4785 05:39:30,830 --> 05:39:32,900 I'd need to know now. 4786 05:39:32,900 --> 05:39:35,060 Otherwise we could proceed with those three votes 4787 05:39:35,060 --> 05:39:37,910 in that way. 4788 05:39:37,910 --> 05:39:41,720 So anybody want to do it differently than that? 4789 05:39:41,720 --> 05:39:44,150 Okay, these are someone willing to support all 4790 05:39:44,150 --> 05:39:44,500 that. 4791 05:39:44,500 --> 05:39:46,590 I'm willing to second all of it. 4792 05:39:46,590 --> 05:39:47,770 Someone willing to, 4793 05:39:47,770 --> 05:39:49,350 Councillor Layman's willing to move. 4794 05:39:49,350 --> 05:39:51,130 So we'll use you and me as the mover and seconder 4795 05:39:51,130 --> 05:39:52,940 for all that to speed things along. 4796 05:39:52,940 --> 05:39:54,400 Okay, so the first thing we're gonna do 4797 05:39:54,400 --> 05:39:57,070 is the commissioner's road item, 4798 05:39:57,070 --> 05:39:58,560 and we're gonna start with first reading 4799 05:39:58,560 --> 05:40:01,930 moved by Councillor Layman, seconded by myself, 4800 05:40:01,930 --> 05:40:14,800 and we will open first reading for voting. 4801 05:40:14,800 --> 05:40:17,230 - Motion carries 10 to three. 4802 05:40:17,230 --> 05:40:20,840 - Okay, we'll just have one sec 4803 05:40:20,840 --> 05:40:44,360 'cause we are faster than e-scrap. 4804 05:40:44,360 --> 05:40:46,240 Okay, second reading, and I apologize, 4805 05:40:46,240 --> 05:40:47,570 it might take that long for every vote 4806 05:40:47,570 --> 05:40:49,860 'cause that's how long e-scrap is taking to 4807 05:40:49,860 --> 05:40:51,360 refresh. 4808 05:40:51,360 --> 05:40:52,920 Any debate on second reading? 4809 05:40:52,920 --> 05:40:53,980 Same move for seconder. 4810 05:40:53,980 --> 05:41:06,440 Seeing none, we'll open that for voting. 4811 05:41:06,440 --> 05:41:16,000 - It's a purple motion carries 10 to three. 4812 05:41:16,000 --> 05:41:17,280 - Okay, and we'll go to third reading, 4813 05:41:17,280 --> 05:41:20,440 same mover and seconder and we'll open third 4814 05:41:20,440 --> 05:41:28,540 reading for voting. Motion carries 4815 05:41:28,540 --> 05:41:34,470 10-3. All right the next one are the two by-laws 4816 05:41:34,470 --> 05:41:35,410 related to the housing 4817 05:41:35,410 --> 05:41:39,710 accelerator fund report from SPPC moved by Coun 4818 05:41:39,710 --> 05:41:40,570 cillor Layton and seconded by 4819 05:41:40,570 --> 05:41:45,320 myself wait a moment and then I'll open first 4820 05:41:45,320 --> 05:42:06,330 reading bills are 182 and 183 and 4821 05:42:06,330 --> 05:42:13,440 I believe it's from item 2.2 of the SPPC report. 4822 05:42:13,440 --> 05:42:21,950 This is a memo that Mr. 4823 05:42:21,950 --> 05:42:26,190 Mathers circulated to. All right we're all good. 4824 05:42:26,190 --> 05:42:27,240 Okay we'll open first reading. 4825 05:42:27,240 --> 05:42:42,560 - It carries 12 to one. 4826 05:42:42,560 --> 05:42:45,220 - Okay, and in a moment we'll do second reading. 4827 05:42:45,220 --> 05:42:47,560 Is there any debate on second reading? 4828 05:42:47,560 --> 05:42:50,100 I don't see any, but we'll just wait for the 4829 05:42:50,100 --> 05:42:50,310 system 4830 05:42:50,310 --> 05:42:51,870 and then we'll open the vote as soon as it's 4831 05:42:51,870 --> 05:43:10,450 ready. 4832 05:43:10,450 --> 05:43:16,280 Okay, that should be open now. 4833 05:43:16,280 --> 05:44:09,450 - Motion carries 12-1. 4834 05:44:09,450 --> 05:44:11,760 - Okay, we're gonna open the next reading for 4835 05:44:11,760 --> 05:44:19,170 voting. 4836 05:44:19,170 --> 05:44:28,610 - Motion carries 12-1. 4837 05:44:28,610 --> 05:44:30,050 - Okay, next we're gonna do everything else, 4838 05:44:30,050 --> 05:44:32,380 including the stuff that was presented 4839 05:44:32,380 --> 05:46:10,140 by Councilor McAllister. 4840 05:46:10,140 --> 05:46:13,080 All right, I'm gonna ask because this might take 4841 05:46:13,080 --> 05:46:13,280 a bit 4842 05:46:13,280 --> 05:46:15,010 if we have to reboot the system. 4843 05:46:15,010 --> 05:46:18,400 We're voting on all the rest of the stuff. 4844 05:46:18,400 --> 05:46:20,850 Is anybody actually opposed to all the rest of 4845 05:46:20,850 --> 05:46:21,150 the stuff 4846 05:46:21,150 --> 05:46:24,930 together, like, OK, because it makes it really 4847 05:46:24,930 --> 05:46:25,030 easy 4848 05:46:25,020 --> 05:46:26,680 to record the vote if we're all in favor. 4849 05:46:26,680 --> 05:46:28,140 I'm still going to call the vote by hand, 4850 05:46:28,140 --> 05:46:29,550 but we want to have recorded votes. 4851 05:46:29,550 --> 05:46:32,990 So if someone's opposed, I'm going 4852 05:46:32,990 --> 05:46:34,630 to wait and let people put it in the system. 4853 05:46:34,630 --> 05:46:37,410 OK, I don't see everybody's in favor. 4854 05:46:37,410 --> 05:46:38,260 OK, all right. 4855 05:46:38,260 --> 05:46:40,540 So we're going to do first reading of everything 4856 05:46:40,540 --> 05:46:40,640 else 4857 05:46:40,600 --> 05:46:42,830 that's left, by hand. 4858 05:46:42,830 --> 05:46:46,080 All those in favor? 4859 05:46:46,080 --> 05:46:50,380 And that looks like, are there any opposed? 4860 05:46:50,380 --> 05:46:52,600 OK, none opposed. 4861 05:46:52,600 --> 05:46:53,090 Come on. 4862 05:46:53,090 --> 05:46:55,560 We're going to record that as everybody in favor 4863 05:46:55,560 --> 05:46:57,600 as everyone present. 4864 05:46:57,600 --> 05:47:03,270 Second reading, any discussion on all of those 4865 05:47:03,270 --> 05:47:06,750 in favor on second reading? 4866 05:47:06,750 --> 05:47:09,910 And anybody opposed? 4867 05:47:09,910 --> 05:47:10,720 - Motion carries. 4868 05:47:10,720 --> 05:47:13,110 - Okay, and no one was opposed there too. 4869 05:47:13,110 --> 05:47:18,610 And third reading, all those in favor, 4870 05:47:18,610 --> 05:47:21,400 and anyone opposed? 4871 05:47:21,400 --> 05:47:23,190 - Motion carries, not opposed. 4872 05:47:23,190 --> 05:47:24,830 - Okay, so we're gonna record that 4873 05:47:24,830 --> 05:47:27,600 as it would have been done in these scribe there. 4874 05:47:27,600 --> 05:47:28,770 Otherwise, we probably would have had 4875 05:47:28,770 --> 05:47:29,750 a 10 minute refresh there. 4876 05:47:29,750 --> 05:47:33,480 So everybody can enjoy whatever weather's left 4877 05:47:33,480 --> 05:47:34,130 out there. 4878 05:47:34,130 --> 05:47:36,420 - Okay, which means we're on to adjournment. 4879 05:47:36,420 --> 05:47:37,670 I'm gonna look for motion to adjourn, 4880 05:47:37,670 --> 05:47:40,100 Councillor van Merebergen seconded by Councillor 4881 05:47:40,100 --> 05:47:40,790 Cuddy. 4882 05:47:40,790 --> 05:47:43,290 All those in favor of adjournment? 4883 05:47:43,290 --> 05:47:44,230 - Motion carries. 4884 05:47:44,230 --> 05:47:44,770 - All right, we're adjourned.