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00:18:33,060 --> 00:18:40,340
 Thanks, please be seated. I just want to thank

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00:18:40,340 --> 00:18:42,670
 everybody for making the time today on short

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00:18:42,670 --> 00:18:44,950
 notice for a special meeting of Councils

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00:18:44,950 --> 00:18:46,710
 Our 10th meeting but a special meeting which

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00:18:46,710 --> 00:18:48,530
 means will only deal with the matters for which

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00:18:48,530 --> 00:18:50,730
 the meeting has been called which is the

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00:18:50,730 --> 00:18:51,780
 communications in

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00:18:51,780 --> 00:18:56,560
 6.1 however is a formal meeting of Council, so I

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00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:57,070
 will go

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00:18:57,070 --> 00:19:00,740
 Through all of our regular procedures, and I'll

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00:19:00,740 --> 00:19:02,260
 start with the land acknowledgement

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00:19:02,260 --> 00:19:04,530
 We acknowledge that we are gathered today on the

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00:19:04,530 --> 00:19:05,890
 traditional lands of the Anishnabek,

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00:19:05,890 --> 00:19:08,810
 Haudenosaunee, Lene Peiwok, and Adwondron peoples

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00:19:08,810 --> 00:19:09,210
.

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00:19:09,210 --> 00:19:10,990
 We honor and respect the history, languages, and

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00:19:10,990 --> 00:19:12,660
 culture of the diverse indigenous people

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00:19:12,660 --> 00:19:14,440
 who call this territory home.

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00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:16,230
 We acknowledge all of the treaties that are

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00:19:16,230 --> 00:19:18,140
 specific to this area, two-row Wampum Belt

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00:19:18,140 --> 00:19:20,350
 Treaty of the Haudenosaunee Confederacy, Silver

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00:19:20,350 --> 00:19:22,490
 Covenant Chain, Beaver Hunting Grounds of the

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00:19:22,490 --> 00:19:25,680
 Haudenosaunee Nanfand Treaty of 1701, the McKee

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00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,130
 Treaty of 1790, the London Township Treaty

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00:19:28,130 --> 00:19:32,180
 of 1796, here on track treaty of 1827 with the An

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00:19:32,180 --> 00:19:33,060
ishnabek.

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00:19:33,060 --> 00:19:35,100
 the Dish With One Spoon Covenant Wampum of the An

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00:19:35,100 --> 00:19:37,460
ishinaabe in Honoshone.

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00:19:37,460 --> 00:19:39,150
 Three indigenous nations that are neighbors to

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00:19:39,150 --> 00:19:40,360
 London are the Chippewaas of the Thames

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00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:43,040
 First Nation, Oneida Nation of the Thames, and

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00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,230
 the Muncie Delaware Nation who all continue

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00:19:45,230 --> 00:19:48,030
 to live as sovereign nations with individual and

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00:19:48,030 --> 00:19:53,540
 unique languages, cultures, and customs.

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00:19:53,540 --> 00:19:55,320
 The City of London is also committed to making

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00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:57,160
 every effort to provide alternate formats

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00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,020
 and communication supports for meetings upon

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00:19:59,020 --> 00:19:59,720
 request.

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00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:01,800
 To make a request specific to this meeting,

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00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,220
 please contact Council Agenda at London.ca

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00:20:04,220 --> 00:20:09,080
 or 519-661-2489, extension 2425.

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00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,400
 Just because there's only a limited number of

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00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:12,830
 members

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00:20:12,830 --> 00:20:15,040
 in chambers, I'm just going to list the members

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00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:16,340
 who've joined us online.

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00:20:16,340 --> 00:20:18,450
 So you're aware of how many are here.

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00:20:18,450 --> 00:20:19,810
 Councillor Hopkins, Councillor ramen,

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00:20:19,810 --> 00:20:21,540
 Councillor McAllister, Councillor Vermeerberg,

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00:20:21,540 --> 00:20:23,750
 and Councillor Frank, Councillor Hillier,

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00:20:23,750 --> 00:20:26,620
 Councillor Layman, and Councillor Ferrera

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00:20:26,620 --> 00:20:28,580
 are all joining us online.

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00:20:28,580 --> 00:20:30,600
 Councillor Palosa, Councillor Cuddy,

53
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:34,390
 Councillor Stevenson, Councillor Trostau,

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00:20:34,390 --> 00:20:37,620
 and myself are here in person.

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00:20:37,620 --> 00:20:40,440
 And I'll move to, oh, we have a playing of O

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00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:40,850
 Canada,

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00:20:40,850 --> 00:20:42,230
 so we don't have a singer today,

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00:20:42,230 --> 00:20:44,360
 but feel free to sing along if you like.

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00:20:44,360 --> 00:20:45,530
 So I'll have everybody rise,

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00:20:45,530 --> 00:22:09,790
 and we'll listen to a rendition of O Canada.

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00:22:09,790 --> 00:22:13,220
 Can you please be seated?

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00:22:13,220 --> 00:22:16,010
 Okay, I'm gonna turn to disclosures of pecuniary

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00:22:16,010 --> 00:22:16,780
 interest.

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00:22:16,780 --> 00:22:20,790
 Are there any?

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00:22:20,790 --> 00:22:22,770
 Seeing none, we have no recognitions.

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 It's a special meeting.

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 We have nothing to review from in closed session.

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 We have no confirmation of previous minutes.

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00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,580
 So we'll move to communications and petitions.

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 There is a report from our staff,

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 as well as three communications from members of

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00:22:41,060 --> 00:22:41,480
 the public

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 and different industry representatives.

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00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:45,600
 How we're gonna do this is,

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00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,740
 I know Councillor Layman's willing

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00:22:48,740 --> 00:22:50,360
 to put the staff recommendation on the floor.

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00:22:50,360 --> 00:22:52,470
 I'm willing to second it so we could put that on

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 the floor

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 so that that's moved and seconded.

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 But our treasurer and her team are going to

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00:22:58,300 --> 00:22:58,980
 present

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 on the item.

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00:22:59,810 --> 00:23:01,560
 I'm gonna provide some additional context

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00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,010
 at the end of the presentation on an Ontario Big

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00:23:04,010 --> 00:23:04,510
 City Mayor's

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00:23:04,510 --> 00:23:07,740
 meeting with the ministry that was occurred last

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00:23:07,740 --> 00:23:08,650
 Friday.

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00:23:08,650 --> 00:23:11,130
 And then we can move into debate and discussion

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00:23:11,130 --> 00:23:13,460
 on the matter, questions and answers,

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00:23:13,460 --> 00:23:14,600
 get all of the information you need.

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 So with it moved and seconded,

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00:23:17,460 --> 00:23:20,990
 I will turn it over to our deputy city manager to

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00:23:20,990 --> 00:23:21,600
 present.

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00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:23,590
 And there's a slide show so you can switch your

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00:23:23,590 --> 00:23:23,920
 screen

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00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:29,100
 to the other screen if you like.

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00:23:29,100 --> 00:23:34,660
 - Will we be getting a copy of it as well?

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00:23:34,660 --> 00:23:55,230
 - Yeah, absolutely, for sure, yeah.

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00:23:55,230 --> 00:23:56,420
 - Thank you, through your worship.

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 So I think certainly we're grateful to have the

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 opportunity

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00:24:00,460 --> 00:24:02,560
 to walk the council through all of this

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00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:03,190
 information

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00:24:03,190 --> 00:24:05,180
 that is very, very current.

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00:24:05,180 --> 00:24:09,330
 Before I begin, I need to recognize my staff

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 and the tremendous amount of work that they have

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 done.

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 In particular, Mr. Sinise's team and Mr. Murray's

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 team

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 have been working extremely hard over the last

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00:24:20,450 --> 00:24:20,890
 two weeks

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00:24:20,890 --> 00:24:23,090
 to pull all of the information together.

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00:24:23,090 --> 00:24:25,120
 And this has been a little bit of the ground

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 moving

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 in beneath our feet as we've been doing the

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 calculations to try to determine how best the

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 city

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 could proceed and take advantage of this program.

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 So why we're here today? The program was

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 announced

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 on June 1st. So with two weeks to start to look

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 at this information, we received a great deal of

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00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:52,510
 new information on this past Saturday morning.

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 And with that additional clarity that the

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 Ministry

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 provided on the program requirements. It provided

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 us with a great deal of information that was able

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 to clarify how the city could proceed with this

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00:25:08,980 --> 00:25:12,410
 program in a manner that would be favorable for

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 the city of London without utilizing taxpayer

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 funding that is in addition to what is already in

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 the current budget. So noting that the ministry

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 timelines are extremely tight, we have to submit

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 an application to be considered for this program

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 by no later than 10 a.m. this Friday morning,

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 June 19th.

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 So in the event that the City of London is

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 successful and is able to proceed with the

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 program,

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00:25:40,890 --> 00:25:43,270
 we anticipate that a TPA, a transfer payment

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00:25:43,270 --> 00:25:45,590
 agreement, will be provided and that will be

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 brought forward for Council's approval in August.

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 So they are moving very, very quickly with this

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00:25:50,770 --> 00:25:53,860
 program. So moving forward today only authorizes

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 the ability for civic administration to submit

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 in application and subject to the ministry's

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00:26:01,020 --> 00:26:03,050
 review we shall see if we are

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 successful and are able to move forward and it

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 will be subject to the council's

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 approval and determination at that time with

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 greater details known to be able

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 to move forward. So certainly the DC rate

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00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,190
 reduction will take place and will

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 be retroactive back to March 30th date that the

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 ministry has provided. So just

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00:26:24,230 --> 00:26:26,030
 to walk you through a bit of the program summ

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aries.

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 So the program is a competitive application-based

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00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:31,620
 funding opportunity.

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 So with this program, there has been a sum of

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 money provided

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 over a 10-year period of time in combined federal

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 and provincial funding.

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 So the intent of the program is to reduce

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 residential DC rates,

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 specifically the residential component by a

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 minimum of 30

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 to 50% for a three-year period of time.

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 So the intended outcome is really

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 to reduce the pressures on the housing costs,

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 as well as advancing development more quickly

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 to be able to provide housing enabling

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00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,100
 infrastructure

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 and to accelerate some of the potential growth

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 related works

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00:27:08,230 --> 00:27:11,400
 that are currently within the DC background study

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 and within the approved city of London capital

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00:27:13,950 --> 00:27:15,470
 plan.

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00:27:15,470 --> 00:27:17,430
 So just to walk you through a bit of the key

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00:27:17,430 --> 00:27:17,700
 dates

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00:27:17,700 --> 00:27:19,490
 and how quickly this is moving.

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 So although the program was announced in June,

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 here we are today to provide direction to staff

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 to submit an application.

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00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,310
 It is retroactive to March 30th,

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00:27:31,310 --> 00:27:34,100
 and it is based on the DC rates that are in

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00:27:34,100 --> 00:27:34,410
 effect

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 at that time related to residential building

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00:27:37,260 --> 00:27:38,030
 permits.

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00:27:38,030 --> 00:27:41,220
 So what this does is this would commit the city

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00:27:41,220 --> 00:27:42,170
 of London,

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00:27:42,170 --> 00:27:45,200
 should we be successful to a three year reduction

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00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:49,040
 over which the projects,

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00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,540
 which would be submitted through the application,

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 would be looked at and would provide funding

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 based on eligible program costs.

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 So there is a very specific period of time

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 over which the works are to be begun

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 and to be completed no later than October 31st,

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 2035.

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 So there are many components within this timeline

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00:28:12,890 --> 00:28:14,360
 that we need to look at,

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00:28:14,360 --> 00:28:17,430
 but most notably the DC rate reduction would be

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00:28:17,430 --> 00:28:17,990
 in place

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00:28:17,990 --> 00:28:21,570
 until March 31st, 2029.

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00:28:21,570 --> 00:28:24,630
 So as you look at this, there are certainly

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00:28:24,630 --> 00:28:26,540
 some other elements that pose some other

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00:28:26,540 --> 00:28:27,050
 questions

209
00:28:27,050 --> 00:28:29,360
 and things that we don't have answers yet to

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00:28:29,360 --> 00:28:31,910
 with respect to our current DC background study,

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00:28:31,910 --> 00:28:34,580
 but certainly what this would do

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00:28:34,580 --> 00:28:36,570
 if the city were to be successful

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00:28:36,570 --> 00:28:38,320
 is that there would be certainty

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00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,860
 with the rates in that reduction up till March 31

215
00:28:41,860 --> 00:28:46,750
st, 2029.

216
00:28:46,750 --> 00:28:50,050
 So there are three assessment criteria

217
00:28:50,050 --> 00:28:51,970
 that the province will be looking at

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00:28:51,970 --> 00:28:54,800
 with respect to the competitive application

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00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:55,760
 process.

220
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,230
 These are the things that they will be judging

221
00:28:58,230 --> 00:29:00,860
 all of the municipalities on with respect

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00:29:00,860 --> 00:29:03,100
 to their application to determine who

223
00:29:03,100 --> 00:29:05,690
 and what municipalities are successful.

224
00:29:05,690 --> 00:29:08,800
 So the first item is the level in which

225
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,070
 the DC rate reduction is recommended.

226
00:29:12,070 --> 00:29:14,980
 So certainly they've identified that greater DC

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00:29:14,980 --> 00:29:16,020
 reductions

228
00:29:16,020 --> 00:29:19,910
 would be subject to potential higher recovery of

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00:29:19,910 --> 00:29:22,340
 grant funding.

230
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,420
 The second component is to have a municipal

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00:29:26,420 --> 00:29:27,780
 contribution

232
00:29:27,780 --> 00:29:30,980
 that is a minimum of 10%.

233
00:29:30,980 --> 00:29:33,920
 They have indicated that contributions above that

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00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:34,820
 10%

235
00:29:34,820 --> 00:29:37,910
 will again be received more favorably.

236
00:29:37,910 --> 00:29:40,650
 This is one of the very key points

237
00:29:40,650 --> 00:29:43,800
 that we received the clarification on.

238
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,950
 Originally the thought was that the municipal

239
00:29:46,950 --> 00:29:48,110
 contribution

240
00:29:48,110 --> 00:29:51,030
 was to be in addition to the tax funding

241
00:29:51,030 --> 00:29:52,780
 and the rate supported funding

242
00:29:52,780 --> 00:29:55,160
 that was already within the municipal budgets.

243
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,710
 This would have created a rate pressure in the

244
00:29:58,710 --> 00:29:59,150
 future

245
00:29:59,150 --> 00:30:01,550
 or would have used reserve funds

246
00:30:01,550 --> 00:30:05,540
 that are already identified for specific sources.

247
00:30:05,540 --> 00:30:08,340
 So this is probably, there were a number of

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00:30:08,340 --> 00:30:09,130
 municipalities

249
00:30:09,130 --> 00:30:11,500
 that had gone very, very quickly to their

250
00:30:11,500 --> 00:30:12,320
 councils

251
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,960
 last week and earlier this week.

252
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,760
 Without that clarification, a lot of the

253
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:18,230
 information

254
00:30:18,230 --> 00:30:20,150
 that would have been provided at that time

255
00:30:20,150 --> 00:30:22,230
 would have actually changed subject

256
00:30:22,230 --> 00:30:25,620
 to Saturday mornings, clarifications received.

257
00:30:25,620 --> 00:30:28,170
 So that's one of the things that we've been

258
00:30:28,170 --> 00:30:28,530
 working

259
00:30:28,530 --> 00:30:31,420
 diligently on is to get additional clarifications

260
00:30:31,420 --> 00:30:33,920
 as we work through the many, many pages of the

261
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:34,680
 guidelines

262
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,690
 and the requirements for which to submit an

263
00:30:37,690 --> 00:30:38,750
 application.

264
00:30:38,750 --> 00:30:41,880
 So the third housing impact piece is the

265
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:42,980
 eligibility

266
00:30:42,980 --> 00:30:45,490
 that they will be looking at in terms of the

267
00:30:45,490 --> 00:30:45,970
 extent

268
00:30:45,970 --> 00:30:48,360
 to which the units that will benefit

269
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,800
 from the DC rate reduction are anticipated.

270
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,990
 So this would be related to the number of permits

271
00:30:53,990 --> 00:30:56,260
 that we expect will be issued over the next three

272
00:30:56,260 --> 00:30:57,220
-year period

273
00:30:57,220 --> 00:31:00,170
 and that will basically be able to take advantage

274
00:31:00,170 --> 00:31:02,630
 of that rate reduction that will be in place over

275
00:31:02,630 --> 00:31:04,260
 that time.

276
00:31:04,260 --> 00:31:07,050
 The other component of that is the number of

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00:31:07,050 --> 00:31:07,400
 units

278
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,190
 that will be enabled through the infrastructure

279
00:31:10,190 --> 00:31:10,540
 projects

280
00:31:10,540 --> 00:31:13,390
 for which the city will include within their

281
00:31:13,390 --> 00:31:14,470
 applications.

282
00:31:14,470 --> 00:31:17,300
 So certainly in terms of looking at all of these,

283
00:31:17,300 --> 00:31:20,310
 I mean, those are three, look like very simple on

284
00:31:20,310 --> 00:31:20,700
 paper,

285
00:31:20,700 --> 00:31:23,480
 but there are great deal calculations and

286
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:23,900
 analysis

287
00:31:23,900 --> 00:31:25,790
 that is within here, and the team has been

288
00:31:25,790 --> 00:31:27,100
 working

289
00:31:27,100 --> 00:31:30,260
 very closely with Mr. Mather's team

290
00:31:30,260 --> 00:31:33,040
 and Ms. Sharer's team to try to look at all of

291
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:33,340
 the things

292
00:31:33,340 --> 00:31:36,760
 that are currently within our approved capital

293
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:37,240
 plans

294
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,320
 and DC background study to look at what things

295
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:44,140
 would potentially support the lost revenue

296
00:31:44,140 --> 00:31:46,290
 that we are potentially estimating over that

297
00:31:46,290 --> 00:31:47,420
 period of time

298
00:31:47,420 --> 00:31:51,110
 to maximize the potential competitiveness of an

299
00:31:51,110 --> 00:31:55,590
 application.

300
00:31:55,590 --> 00:31:58,480
 With any program, there are always some financial

301
00:31:58,480 --> 00:31:58,870
 risks,

302
00:31:58,870 --> 00:32:01,460
 and certainly we've been trying to look

303
00:32:01,460 --> 00:32:03,250
 at the cost benefit of these.

304
00:32:03,250 --> 00:32:07,760
 And until a signed TPA is provided to us,

305
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,270
 it will be difficult to quantify at this point in

306
00:32:10,270 --> 00:32:10,830
 time.

307
00:32:10,830 --> 00:32:12,790
 However, one of the key factors

308
00:32:12,790 --> 00:32:15,500
 that I would just bring to your attention is that

309
00:32:15,500 --> 00:32:18,250
 there is a potential revenue gap that could occur

310
00:32:18,250 --> 00:32:21,360
 in the event that the DC relief ends up being

311
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:22,180
 significantly

312
00:32:22,180 --> 00:32:25,910
 higher than the lost funding and that the funding

313
00:32:25,910 --> 00:32:28,710
 that would be anticipated and provided through

314
00:32:28,710 --> 00:32:30,100
 this TPA

315
00:32:30,100 --> 00:32:33,500
 should the city of London be successful in its

316
00:32:33,500 --> 00:32:34,480
 application.

317
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,340
 So certainly something that our calculations we

318
00:32:37,340 --> 00:32:38,120
 are reviewing

319
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,320
 and trying to put forward our best calculations

320
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,340
 to ensure that any potential revenue loss

321
00:32:44,340 --> 00:32:48,960
 would be mitigated by the potential grant

322
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:49,670
 application

323
00:32:49,670 --> 00:32:51,790
 that could be put forward and revenue

324
00:32:51,790 --> 00:32:54,780
 from the province and the feds.

325
00:32:54,780 --> 00:32:58,480
 In addition, the application clearly states

326
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,480
 that the city is responsible for any cost escal

327
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:01,870
ations

328
00:33:01,870 --> 00:33:04,580
 or project overruns that might be associated

329
00:33:04,580 --> 00:33:06,850
 with any of the eligible costs.

330
00:33:06,850 --> 00:33:09,950
 These are not unusual for any of infrastructure

331
00:33:09,950 --> 00:33:10,230
 funding

332
00:33:10,230 --> 00:33:12,460
 programs, however, it's certainly something

333
00:33:12,460 --> 00:33:14,490
 that we need to take into account

334
00:33:14,490 --> 00:33:16,640
 as we put forward an application.

335
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,740
 And also common with other infrastructure

336
00:33:19,740 --> 00:33:20,470
 programs

337
00:33:20,470 --> 00:33:23,810
 is that because it is milestone based,

338
00:33:23,810 --> 00:33:26,060
 the city needs to provide the interim financing

339
00:33:26,060 --> 00:33:28,790
 of the capital costs as the projects

340
00:33:28,790 --> 00:33:31,690
 are completed over that 10 year timeframe.

341
00:33:31,690 --> 00:33:34,120
 So certainly, should the city be successful,

342
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,710
 we would bring forward to you a full assessment

343
00:33:36,710 --> 00:33:38,750
 of what financial risks are at the time

344
00:33:38,750 --> 00:33:42,170
 that council is contemplating the completion

345
00:33:42,170 --> 00:33:44,160
 and the execution of the TPA,

346
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:48,640
 which we anticipate will be in August.

347
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,670
 So based on the work that the team has been able

348
00:33:51,670 --> 00:33:52,400
 to do

349
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,890
 thus far and that we have diligently been trying

350
00:33:54,890 --> 00:33:57,320
 to pull together since Monday morning,

351
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,260
 we are recommending that the city proceed

352
00:33:59,260 --> 00:34:02,520
 with an application for a proposed 50% DC

353
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,220
 reduction.

354
00:34:04,220 --> 00:34:08,810
 So based on what we now know to be clarified

355
00:34:08,810 --> 00:34:11,190
 as part of the ministry guidelines

356
00:34:11,190 --> 00:34:13,680
 that have been provided to us,

357
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:18,010
 that would offset a significant portion

358
00:34:18,010 --> 00:34:21,240
 of the current DC rates in effect at March 31st,

359
00:34:21,240 --> 00:34:24,110
 and would maximize the most competitive

360
00:34:24,110 --> 00:34:25,070
 application

361
00:34:25,070 --> 00:34:28,030
 to enable the most number of housing units,

362
00:34:28,030 --> 00:34:31,300
 and as well as eligible funding under the program

363
00:34:31,300 --> 00:34:31,580
.

364
00:34:31,580 --> 00:34:34,770
 So one of the key pieces that we now need to do

365
00:34:34,770 --> 00:34:37,570
 and complete in preparation to have a final

366
00:34:37,570 --> 00:34:38,520
 application

367
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,590
 submitted for 10 a.m. on Friday morning

368
00:34:41,590 --> 00:34:45,620
 is to determine what that revenue loss will be

369
00:34:45,620 --> 00:34:48,630
 in conjunction with the eligible costs for

370
00:34:48,630 --> 00:34:49,530
 projects,

371
00:34:49,530 --> 00:34:52,480
 as well as the housing units that will be enabled

372
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,720
 for any potential infrastructure projects

373
00:34:56,720 --> 00:34:58,040
 that we would put forward.

374
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,450
 So certainly the intent would be to submit the

375
00:35:00,450 --> 00:35:01,180
 projects

376
00:35:01,180 --> 00:35:04,010
 that will enable the greatest residential unit

377
00:35:04,010 --> 00:35:04,570
 benefit,

378
00:35:04,570 --> 00:35:08,230
 but also ensure that the minimum recovery

379
00:35:08,230 --> 00:35:11,020
 will offset the anticipated DC revenue

380
00:35:11,020 --> 00:35:15,240
 to ensure that the city is at a neutral position.

381
00:35:15,240 --> 00:35:19,870
 It ultimately, in our opinion, is a good program

382
00:35:19,870 --> 00:35:22,910
 given the clarification that has been provided

383
00:35:22,910 --> 00:35:24,230
 to proceed with.

384
00:35:24,230 --> 00:35:26,780
 And although there may be some risks,

385
00:35:26,780 --> 00:35:28,780
 so we believe at this point in time

386
00:35:28,780 --> 00:35:32,210
 that with the benefit through the 90%,

387
00:35:32,210 --> 00:35:34,770
 that would be offset through the DC revenue

388
00:35:34,770 --> 00:35:37,120
 and with bi-eligible funding,

389
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,360
 that this will be a win-win for everyone

390
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:41,710
 to be able to proceed.

391
00:35:41,710 --> 00:35:44,550
 So we are seeking Council's endorsement

392
00:35:44,550 --> 00:35:46,500
 to proceed with an application

393
00:35:46,500 --> 00:35:49,140
 and the team will continue pulling together

394
00:35:49,140 --> 00:35:50,970
 all of the relevant information

395
00:35:50,970 --> 00:35:53,530
 so that we can find the projects

396
00:35:53,530 --> 00:35:56,920
 that are the most advantageous to maximize the

397
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:57,480
 funding

398
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,150
 in equal to the amount that the DC revenue lost

399
00:36:01,150 --> 00:36:04,380
 as well as enabling the most number of housing

400
00:36:04,380 --> 00:36:04,820
 units

401
00:36:04,820 --> 00:36:07,020
 so that we might increase our odds

402
00:36:07,020 --> 00:36:09,610
 of being successful in this program.

403
00:36:09,610 --> 00:36:12,450
 I will turn it back over to your worship.

404
00:36:12,450 --> 00:36:14,150
 - Yes, and I'm gonna turn the chair over to Coun

405
00:36:14,150 --> 00:36:14,360
cillor

406
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,030
 Flosa, I'll continue with some more details

407
00:36:16,030 --> 00:36:18,860
 on the presentation before we get into debate.

408
00:36:18,860 --> 00:36:20,800
 - Thank you, I have the chair recognizing Mayor

409
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:21,580
 Morgan.

410
00:36:21,580 --> 00:36:24,430
 - Yes, so I just wanna add some additional

411
00:36:24,430 --> 00:36:24,870
 context

412
00:36:24,870 --> 00:36:27,810
 based on what the deputy city manager said.

413
00:36:27,810 --> 00:36:29,680
 So as of Thursday of last week,

414
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:31,630
 one of the biggest barriers to the application

415
00:36:31,630 --> 00:36:34,980
 was the way the municipal contribution was going

416
00:36:34,980 --> 00:36:35,450
 to work.

417
00:36:35,450 --> 00:36:38,640
 As was described, as of Thursday night

418
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,860
 engagements with a ministry staff. The

419
00:36:41,860 --> 00:36:44,380
 expectation was, irrespective of how much money

420
00:36:44,380 --> 00:36:45,030
 you have

421
00:36:45,030 --> 00:36:47,820
 in a project that is non-DC related, because if

422
00:36:47,820 --> 00:36:49,790
 you recall, a number of our projects have

423
00:36:49,790 --> 00:36:51,830
 growth related components and non-growth related

424
00:36:51,830 --> 00:36:54,540
 components, you were not going to be allowed to

425
00:36:54,540 --> 00:36:57,290
 count your non-growth related components towards

426
00:36:57,290 --> 00:37:00,340
 the municipal contribution. In other words,

427
00:37:00,340 --> 00:37:02,610
 within the DC envelope, we were going to have to

428
00:37:02,610 --> 00:37:05,940
 find an additional 10% of dollars on projects

429
00:37:05,940 --> 00:37:06,040
 that

430
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,690
 could be hundreds of millions of dollars. Find

431
00:37:08,690 --> 00:37:11,540
 that for me the municipal tax base or some other

432
00:37:11,540 --> 00:37:13,990
 source which is basically going to be municipal

433
00:37:13,990 --> 00:37:16,290
 taxes or rates to be able to participate in the

434
00:37:16,290 --> 00:37:20,030
 program which was a significant barrier. Friday

435
00:37:20,030 --> 00:37:22,200
 we convened a meeting of the Ontario

436
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:26,420
 big city mayors in Waterloo where almost all

437
00:37:26,420 --> 00:37:29,460
 mayors participated and the main thing we

438
00:37:29,460 --> 00:37:29,850
 discussed

439
00:37:29,850 --> 00:37:32,160
 to be engaged directly with ministry staff at

440
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,550
 both the political and ministerial level.

441
00:37:35,340 --> 00:37:37,610
 there were a number of concerns and questions

442
00:37:37,610 --> 00:37:39,640
 raised. One of the main concerns I raised was

443
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:43,200
 municipal contribution piece. I emphasize that

444
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,950
 should the province allow municipalities to count

445
00:37:46,950 --> 00:37:50,470
 their non-DC already budgeted or rate collected

446
00:37:50,470 --> 00:37:53,630
 portions of a project towards municipal

447
00:37:53,630 --> 00:37:54,190
 contribution,

448
00:37:54,190 --> 00:37:56,310
 we would be able to participate at a much deeper

449
00:37:56,310 --> 00:37:58,700
 level. We would be able to make applications that

450
00:37:58,700 --> 00:38:01,490
 would be targeted towards more units of housing.

451
00:38:01,490 --> 00:38:03,440
 And there were a number of other questions that

452
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:05,300
 were raised from different municipalities. There

453
00:38:05,300 --> 00:38:07,060
 were a number of mayors who were very concerned

454
00:38:07,060 --> 00:38:09,940
 because they had gone to their councils, got

455
00:38:09,940 --> 00:38:12,400
 permissions, realized that now they're on the

456
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:12,630
 hook

457
00:38:12,630 --> 00:38:15,120
 for tens of millions of dollars of potential tax

458
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,780
 increases, they came to that meeting seeking

459
00:38:17,780 --> 00:38:20,240
 that clarification as well. To the ministry's

460
00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:22,470
 credit, and I want to thank Minister Flack's

461
00:38:22,470 --> 00:38:22,790
 office

462
00:38:22,790 --> 00:38:24,720
 for the representation that they had at that

463
00:38:24,720 --> 00:38:26,950
 meeting, as well as the ministry staff,

464
00:38:26,950 --> 00:38:29,590
 they listened to our concerns. And this is an

465
00:38:29,590 --> 00:38:31,950
 instant where the province had a meeting,

466
00:38:31,950 --> 00:38:34,230
 They listened to the concerns of mayors. By the

467
00:38:34,230 --> 00:38:35,780
 next day, they were provided the necessary

468
00:38:35,780 --> 00:38:39,110
 clarification on a number of factors that allows

469
00:38:39,110 --> 00:38:42,090
 for a participation of cities like the City of

470
00:38:42,090 --> 00:38:45,080
 London without any net new impacts on the tax

471
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:48,950
 rates from the application. And what our staff

472
00:38:48,950 --> 00:38:51,760
 now have the job to do is to craft together the

473
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,700
 application that can make it the most competitive

474
00:38:54,700 --> 00:38:54,800
,

475
00:38:54,700 --> 00:38:57,230
 which means, you know, targeting the 50 percent

476
00:38:57,230 --> 00:38:59,170
 rate is going to make it more competitive.

477
00:39:00,050 --> 00:39:02,050
 gathering the number of projects that we have

478
00:39:02,050 --> 00:39:04,440
 within the existing D.C. approved background

479
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:04,680
 study,

480
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:06,840
 and we can only use projects within the existing

481
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,110
 D.C. approved background study to maximize,

482
00:39:10,110 --> 00:39:12,520
 minimize the risks, and maximize the housing

483
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:14,740
 benefit will be the job that they have next,

484
00:39:14,740 --> 00:39:16,570
 and then they will submit those projects. So we

485
00:39:16,570 --> 00:39:18,500
'll have a chance at the transfer payment

486
00:39:18,500 --> 00:39:18,900
 agreement

487
00:39:18,900 --> 00:39:21,960
 component to have an assessment of here's what

488
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,770
 the ministry has agreed that they're willing to

489
00:39:24,770 --> 00:39:25,090
 fund.

490
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,750
 here's the risks, here's the projects, you know,

491
00:39:28,750 --> 00:39:30,500
 here's the depth of DC reduction that we

492
00:39:30,500 --> 00:39:32,380
 actually landed on. They're targeting 50%. It

493
00:39:32,380 --> 00:39:34,170
 could land around that depending on the projects

494
00:39:34,170 --> 00:39:38,410
 picked because the province will fund projects,

495
00:39:38,410 --> 00:39:42,510
 not just a direct loss of DC revenue. And they

496
00:39:42,510 --> 00:39:44,020
 will pull out the gathering council will have a

497
00:39:44,020 --> 00:39:45,490
 decision to that point on whether or not to

498
00:39:45,490 --> 00:39:48,400
 participate in the TPA. So just to be clear, we

499
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:50,730
 will still have another vote to decide whether

500
00:39:50,730 --> 00:39:52,480
 or not to participate with all of the full

501
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:54,430
 details on what it actually looks like for the

502
00:39:54,430 --> 00:39:54,750
 city of

503
00:39:54,750 --> 00:39:57,110
 of London. It will be clear. This will look

504
00:39:57,110 --> 00:39:59,110
 different in every single city because the

505
00:39:59,110 --> 00:40:02,400
 province is funding projects. And it's

506
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,020
 competitive. I spoke with Minister Flack last

507
00:40:05,020 --> 00:40:06,200
 night. He

508
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,530
 would love to see the program oversubscribed.

509
00:40:08,530 --> 00:40:10,650
 They don't know how many applications will

510
00:40:10,650 --> 00:40:13,160
 come in, but they expect it to be competitive.

511
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,140
 One of the questions I asked him, and he's

512
00:40:16,140 --> 00:40:18,940
 very open to, it'll be something to determine

513
00:40:18,940 --> 00:40:22,830
 later, is if this works as the province intends,

514
00:40:22,830 --> 00:40:24,310
 And remember, the goal of this program in

515
00:40:24,310 --> 00:40:26,230
 participating in it is to get many of those

516
00:40:26,230 --> 00:40:29,780
 municipal permissions to actually move and turn

517
00:40:29,780 --> 00:40:32,330
 into actual units on the ground.

518
00:40:32,330 --> 00:40:35,100
 If that works and development moves and we get

519
00:40:35,100 --> 00:40:37,350
 lots of activity and it aligns with our

520
00:40:37,350 --> 00:40:40,160
 estimates, you know, we'll be in a good spot.

521
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:41,910
 If for some reason it goes even better than

522
00:40:41,910 --> 00:40:45,480
 expected, which is not a bad problem to have,

523
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,840
 we would forgo more DC revenue than we have

524
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:49,980
 projects.

525
00:40:49,980 --> 00:40:52,110
 And so my ask was, if there's still money left in

526
00:40:52,110 --> 00:40:54,090
 the envelope, or if the province is

527
00:40:54,090 --> 00:40:56,940
 willing to put in more money, would you consider

528
00:40:56,940 --> 00:40:59,590
 municipalities being able to add more projects

529
00:40:59,590 --> 00:41:02,380
 to be funded to actually maximize and offset the

530
00:41:02,380 --> 00:41:04,790
 pressure on the DC funds with additional

531
00:41:04,790 --> 00:41:05,790
 projects?

532
00:41:05,790 --> 00:41:07,650
 And as an answer to that, it was totally not

533
00:41:07,650 --> 00:41:09,880
 opposed to that, and very interested in trying

534
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:12,780
 to build housing, and I think they're willing to

535
00:41:12,780 --> 00:41:15,280
 put even additional dollars on the table,

536
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:16,790
 but it didn't depend on how long the program is

537
00:41:16,790 --> 00:41:17,390
 subscribed.

538
00:41:17,390 --> 00:41:20,760
 So I wanted to provide that context for council

539
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:22,860
 as well beyond what the treasurer said because

540
00:41:22,860 --> 00:41:26,000
 there was a political element in engagement to

541
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:27,770
 this as of last Friday.

542
00:41:27,770 --> 00:41:30,200
 I want to also thank our staff.

543
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,200
 I know that we've had many conversations and I

544
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,110
 appreciate all the prep leading into the

545
00:41:34,110 --> 00:41:37,110
 Friday meeting of Mayors.

546
00:41:37,110 --> 00:41:39,450
 This is consumed all of their time, the amount of

547
00:41:39,450 --> 00:41:41,300
 calculations to even figure out what's

548
00:41:41,300 --> 00:41:44,100
 possible, what's not, that they will need to do

549
00:41:44,100 --> 00:41:46,490
 in the coming days to submit to the application

550
00:41:46,490 --> 00:41:48,250
 by Friday morning is tremendous.

551
00:41:48,250 --> 00:41:50,220
 I know they're laying the groundwork for that now

552
00:41:50,220 --> 00:41:51,240
 and have been.

553
00:41:51,240 --> 00:41:53,750
 So I thank them for their dedicated work.

554
00:41:53,750 --> 00:41:55,350
 And I think that there's a real path

555
00:41:55,350 --> 00:41:56,870
 to participating in this program in a way

556
00:41:56,870 --> 00:41:59,040
 that has no impact on taxes

557
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:01,860
 and offsets the necessary dollars.

558
00:42:01,860 --> 00:42:05,210
 And hopefully achieves the province's goal

559
00:42:05,210 --> 00:42:06,730
 of getting all of those permissions

560
00:42:06,730 --> 00:42:09,990
 that we've made moving and turned into housing.

561
00:42:09,990 --> 00:42:12,460
 So I add that additional context

562
00:42:12,460 --> 00:42:18,210
 and I'll sit down now, Chair.

563
00:42:18,210 --> 00:42:20,720
 - Thank you, return the chair to Mayor Morgan.

564
00:42:20,720 --> 00:42:22,060
 - Okay, so we've got all that.

565
00:42:22,060 --> 00:42:23,760
 I'm sure there's going to be a number of

566
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:24,280
 questions.

567
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,290
 I do, we'll just note for councilor strategically

568
00:42:26,290 --> 00:42:26,390
,

569
00:42:26,290 --> 00:42:27,510
 it's council.

570
00:42:27,510 --> 00:42:31,790
 So if you want to ask questions and do debate,

571
00:42:31,790 --> 00:42:34,280
 it's kind of a good idea to kind of hack all that

572
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:34,380
,

573
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:35,930
 all those pieces together.

574
00:42:35,930 --> 00:42:39,780
 And so just remember, we get to speak once.

575
00:42:39,780 --> 00:42:42,850
 So I anticipate you want to be thoughtful about

576
00:42:42,850 --> 00:42:43,190
 your time

577
00:42:43,190 --> 00:42:44,060
 and get the questions in,

578
00:42:44,060 --> 00:42:45,720
 but also your thoughts for your colleagues

579
00:42:45,720 --> 00:42:48,110
 to hear about participation in the program.

580
00:42:48,110 --> 00:42:49,140
 - Point of order.

581
00:42:49,140 --> 00:42:50,570
 - Yes.

582
00:42:50,570 --> 00:42:52,440
 - I think under the circumstances,

583
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,350
 especially since I think most of us

584
00:42:55,350 --> 00:42:57,290
 are just looking at this for the first time,

585
00:42:57,290 --> 00:42:59,350
 it would be useful to suspend the rules

586
00:42:59,350 --> 00:43:02,050
 and allow a little bit more back and forth

587
00:43:02,050 --> 00:43:04,310
 and a little bit question

588
00:43:04,310 --> 00:43:08,040
 and then come back and ask another question

589
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:11,340
 and not be subject to the strict procedural rules

590
00:43:11,340 --> 00:43:11,440
.

591
00:43:11,340 --> 00:43:15,910
 So I'd like to ask if you could relax that

592
00:43:15,910 --> 00:43:19,130
 without having to make a motion.

593
00:43:19,130 --> 00:44:18,520
 - Yep, let me get an answer for that council.

594
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:20,670
 - Okay, so let me give you a path forward

595
00:44:20,670 --> 00:44:21,210
 counselor

596
00:44:21,210 --> 00:44:23,730
 'cause I agree with your assessment.

597
00:44:23,730 --> 00:44:28,850
 So what we could do by two thirds majority

598
00:44:28,850 --> 00:44:35,240
 is suspend the, you only get to speak once rule.

599
00:44:35,240 --> 00:44:37,370
 We've always had the ability to extend time

600
00:44:37,370 --> 00:44:39,170
 if we need to, if someone gets the end of it,

601
00:44:39,170 --> 00:44:42,190
 but we could suspend the speak only once.

602
00:44:42,190 --> 00:44:44,320
 I could track time, get asked some questions,

603
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:45,580
 you could way back in the debate later

604
00:44:45,580 --> 00:44:46,920
 if you save some time.

605
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:48,950
 We could go that route with it.

606
00:44:48,950 --> 00:44:50,160
 I would need two thirds of counsel

607
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:53,850
 to support that to enforce it.

608
00:44:53,850 --> 00:44:55,320
 - In which case, I'd like to move that

609
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:56,350
 notwithstanding.

610
00:44:56,350 --> 00:44:57,800
 - Could you just wear a council so I'll just have

611
00:44:57,800 --> 00:44:58,410
 you stand.

612
00:44:58,410 --> 00:45:00,020
 - Oh, that's right.

613
00:45:00,020 --> 00:45:01,760
 - It's the morning, so.

614
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:05,960
 Notwithstanding the normal council procedure

615
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:06,850
 rules,

616
00:45:06,850 --> 00:45:10,650
 they be suspended to allow counselors

617
00:45:10,650 --> 00:45:15,070
 to speak more than once.

618
00:45:15,070 --> 00:45:16,200
 - Okay, we're just gonna word that up.

619
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:36,790
 I got a seconder for that.

620
00:45:36,790 --> 00:45:43,110
 We're just gonna pull up the actual reference

621
00:45:43,110 --> 00:45:45,050
 to the by-law in the motion just to make it very

622
00:45:45,050 --> 00:46:41,700
 clear.

623
00:46:41,700 --> 00:46:44,020
 Okay, I'll read out the motion.

624
00:46:44,020 --> 00:46:46,550
 Pursuant to section 2.3 of the council procedure

625
00:46:46,550 --> 00:46:46,880
 by-law.

626
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,110
 the speaking only once provision provided in

627
00:46:49,110 --> 00:46:52,380
 section 9.7 be suspended for the June 17th

628
00:46:52,380 --> 00:46:56,190
 council meeting. Good with that language? Good.

629
00:46:56,190 --> 00:46:59,330
 Okay. That requires two thirds all members

630
00:46:59,330 --> 00:47:01,950
 of council whether the president or not to pass.

631
00:47:01,950 --> 00:47:17,850
 So it requires a 10 vote threshold.

632
00:47:17,850 --> 00:47:20,620
 No suspension of the rules is not not amenable,

633
00:47:20,620 --> 00:47:23,580
 not debatable. So that's the motion before

634
00:47:23,580 --> 00:47:33,730
 us. We're going to open it for voting.

635
00:47:33,730 --> 00:47:35,200
 - Chair, my e-scribe isn't working.

636
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:38,670
 Councilor ramen votes yes.

637
00:47:38,670 --> 00:47:41,450
 - My e-scribe is not working as well.

638
00:47:41,450 --> 00:47:45,680
 Councilor Hopkins votes yes.

639
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:50,270
 - Councilor Trosto votes yes.

640
00:47:50,270 --> 00:47:58,240
 - Councilor Layman votes no.

641
00:47:58,240 --> 00:48:01,140
 - Closing the vote, motion fails nine to four.

642
00:48:01,140 --> 00:48:02,640
 - Okay, that required 10, we got nine.

643
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:06,250
 So I will proceed with the regular procedure by-

644
00:48:06,250 --> 00:48:07,010
law.

645
00:48:07,010 --> 00:48:10,190
 And I would ask colleagues to just think

646
00:48:10,190 --> 00:48:11,080
 thoughtfully about your time

647
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:12,550
 'cause you'll be able to ask questions and debate

648
00:48:12,550 --> 00:48:14,290
 at the same time.

649
00:48:14,290 --> 00:48:15,290
 - Point of order.

650
00:48:15,290 --> 00:48:16,570
 - Point of order, go ahead.

651
00:48:16,570 --> 00:48:20,330
 - Thank you, Mr. Ware.

652
00:48:20,330 --> 00:48:22,580
 There is audit committee at noon.

653
00:48:22,580 --> 00:48:23,900
 I know we're a little ways out from that,

654
00:48:23,900 --> 00:48:26,060
 just looking to see how procedure you're going to

655
00:48:26,060 --> 00:48:26,960
 handle it,

656
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:29,620
 if we'll have to, just if people are speaking,

657
00:48:29,620 --> 00:48:30,510
 for example period of time,

658
00:48:30,510 --> 00:48:38,080
 what we're going to do about audit at noon.

659
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:41,500
 - So if we run into that, we'll pause.

660
00:48:41,500 --> 00:48:43,500
 You'll convene audit, lucky you.

661
00:48:43,500 --> 00:48:46,630
 Then you will suspend it, so the meeting starts,

662
00:48:46,630 --> 00:48:47,830
 as long as you start within half an hour

663
00:48:47,830 --> 00:48:50,200
 to start about it, then we will continue with

664
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:50,500
 this.

665
00:48:50,500 --> 00:48:52,280
 And then when we're done, we'll switch back to

666
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:53,840
 audit.

667
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:57,240
 But if people keep it tight, that'll be great.

668
00:48:57,240 --> 00:48:58,770
 But if they don't, there's lots of questions.

669
00:48:58,770 --> 00:48:59,580
 It's a big decision.

670
00:48:59,580 --> 00:49:02,070
 got to let it go the way it goes. I appreciate

671
00:49:02,070 --> 00:49:02,930
 that just we have a member of

672
00:49:02,930 --> 00:49:04,820
 the public who also serves on audit so thank you.

673
00:49:04,820 --> 00:49:06,510
 Yeah if you're waiting for the

674
00:49:06,510 --> 00:49:09,360
 audit committee we're going to get to it don't

675
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:11,370
 worry. Okay so I'll start a

676
00:49:11,370 --> 00:49:14,160
 speaker's list now on this item I'll look for

677
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:32,180
 speakers. Okay go ahead

678
00:49:32,180 --> 00:49:41,550
 Councillor Stevenson. I just want to say that I

679
00:49:41,550 --> 00:49:45,730
 support applying for this what I

680
00:49:45,730 --> 00:49:51,800
 am struggling with is the the lack of information

681
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:54,610
 provided to council and the

682
00:49:54,610 --> 00:49:56,990
 lack of a role that council is going to play in

683
00:49:56,990 --> 00:49:58,540
 the decisions that are going to be made,

684
00:49:58,540 --> 00:50:00,400
 which are big and important.

685
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:02,020
 And I appreciate the work of staff.

686
00:50:02,020 --> 00:50:03,370
 This isn't derogatory to them.

687
00:50:03,370 --> 00:50:07,010
 I'm sure they've been working very, very hard,

688
00:50:07,010 --> 00:50:12,060
 but none of that work is visible.

689
00:50:12,060 --> 00:50:15,420
 This application is due in less than 48 hours.

690
00:50:15,420 --> 00:50:17,870
 And the thought that projects haven't been sc

691
00:50:17,870 --> 00:50:20,970
oured, that percentages haven't been calculated

692
00:50:20,970 --> 00:50:24,680
 is difficult, difficult.

693
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:27,840
 The city of Windsor has a meeting right now at 11

694
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:28,880
 o'clock.

695
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:32,480
 And their council has details, information.

696
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:35,560
 They're being asked to support in principle a 70%

697
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:40,550
 DC reduction and a 59% municipal contribution.

698
00:50:40,550 --> 00:50:43,110
 They have numbers and information around that

699
00:50:43,110 --> 00:50:46,080
 municipal contribution about the risks associated

700
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:49,460
 with choosing projects where costs were estimated

701
00:50:49,460 --> 00:50:52,010
 a while ago and maybe updated costs aren't

702
00:50:52,010 --> 00:50:55,170
 known or increased, known increased costs are not

703
00:50:55,170 --> 00:50:56,160
 eligible.

704
00:50:56,160 --> 00:51:01,360
 So, I'm not an expert in this, but I would like

705
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:07,140
 to be informed on the behalf of taxpayers.

706
00:51:07,140 --> 00:51:09,140
 We received an email last week saying there was

707
00:51:09,140 --> 00:51:11,260
 going to be no special committee, no special

708
00:51:11,260 --> 00:51:14,130
 council meeting, and that we would be informed

709
00:51:14,130 --> 00:51:16,240
 after the fact what the application looked

710
00:51:16,240 --> 00:51:17,670
 like.

711
00:51:17,670 --> 00:51:19,500
 And yes, we will have a final say, but it will be

712
00:51:19,500 --> 00:51:20,900
 a take it or leave it at that point

713
00:51:20,900 --> 00:51:25,640
 and we won't have provided information, nor will

714
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:28,210
 we know what our options were.

715
00:51:28,210 --> 00:51:30,500
 There might have been several different options.

716
00:51:30,500 --> 00:51:33,280
 We won't even understand how competitive our

717
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:38,410
 application will be.

718
00:51:38,410 --> 00:51:41,470
 So now and now with a vote of council doesn't

719
00:51:41,470 --> 00:51:44,320
 even want us to discuss it as members of councils

720
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:44,520
,

721
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:46,490
 as representatives of our awards.

722
00:51:46,490 --> 00:51:48,810
 This has been indicative this entire term of

723
00:51:48,810 --> 00:51:50,670
 council, something that I've experienced

724
00:51:50,670 --> 00:51:53,050
 that I've spoken about, something that I struggle

725
00:51:53,050 --> 00:51:55,000
 with, I have sent email communication

726
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:58,460
 and we got this meeting.

727
00:51:58,460 --> 00:52:00,720
 This was just a general thing that we knew before

728
00:52:00,720 --> 00:52:00,930
.

729
00:52:00,930 --> 00:52:04,310
 We talk about the issues with last minute stuff.

730
00:52:04,310 --> 00:52:05,860
 We'll deal with the government.

731
00:52:05,860 --> 00:52:06,860
 It's always like that.

732
00:52:06,860 --> 00:52:08,550
 As a tax accountant, it was ridiculous.

733
00:52:08,550 --> 00:52:11,410
 They would announce programs and people would be

734
00:52:11,410 --> 00:52:13,100
 filing tax returns and we wouldn't know

735
00:52:13,100 --> 00:52:14,400
 the details yet.

736
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:16,800
 That is the reality in which we work.

737
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:18,800
 All of us.

738
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:19,790
 And it is appreciated.

739
00:52:19,790 --> 00:52:21,570
 It is appreciated what staff is doing.

740
00:52:21,570 --> 00:52:23,850
 But as I've said, through emails to the mayor and

741
00:52:23,850 --> 00:52:25,640
 to the city manager and to the deputy

742
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:29,040
 city manager of finance, under what authority and

743
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:30,950
 direction is this application going to

744
00:52:30,950 --> 00:52:35,760
 be filed without council's involvement.

745
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:38,130
 is going to make the decisions between now and

746
00:52:38,130 --> 00:52:41,250
 Friday morning. And you have to have a draft.

747
00:52:41,250 --> 00:52:43,510
 You have to have been looking at this. I

748
00:52:43,510 --> 00:52:46,740
 understand it's not finalized, but you have to be

749
00:52:46,740 --> 00:52:46,860
 have

750
00:52:46,860 --> 00:52:49,130
 been working on this for the last couple of weeks

751
00:52:49,130 --> 00:52:51,470
. All that work, as I said, is not visible

752
00:52:51,470 --> 00:52:54,370
 to the public. It's not accountable. It's not

753
00:52:54,370 --> 00:52:56,170
 transparent. And we are being asked to vote

754
00:52:56,170 --> 00:53:02,210
 today, blindly, blindly, when other cities get

755
00:53:02,210 --> 00:53:06,020
 information and data. And this is something

756
00:53:06,020 --> 00:53:08,840
 that I've been talking about this entire term, I

757
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:11,710
 will be abstaining which I

758
00:53:11,710 --> 00:53:13,410
 understand counts as a no vote which is

759
00:53:13,410 --> 00:53:14,940
 unfortunate and I understand not allowed

760
00:53:14,940 --> 00:53:16,760
 to abstain but I'm going to abstain anyway

761
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:17,550
 because I don't have the

762
00:53:17,550 --> 00:53:19,770
 information with which to make a decision and

763
00:53:19,770 --> 00:53:21,410
 that's most unfortunate on

764
00:53:21,410 --> 00:53:25,150
 something as critical as this, a program that all

765
00:53:25,150 --> 00:53:26,520
 of us are excited about and the

766
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:29,070
 development industry is counting on. Now maybe

767
00:53:29,070 --> 00:53:30,110
 there's a way that this the

768
00:53:30,110 --> 00:53:33,620
 leadership here can make this right, can we get

769
00:53:33,620 --> 00:53:36,130
 information in an email, can we

770
00:53:36,130 --> 00:53:37,760
 we have another council meeting tomorrow.

771
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:41,810
 Like how can we do this the way other cities

772
00:53:41,810 --> 00:53:44,210
 are able to do it?

773
00:53:44,210 --> 00:53:46,530
 I'm gonna say again that I wanna support this,

774
00:53:46,530 --> 00:53:48,940
 but what am I supporting, right?

775
00:53:48,940 --> 00:53:49,760
 It could be a hundred,

776
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:51,770
 they could put forward an application that's 100%

777
00:53:51,770 --> 00:53:52,280
 DCs.

778
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:54,210
 It could be hundreds of millions of dollars

779
00:53:54,210 --> 00:53:56,740
 as the mayor is saying.

780
00:53:56,740 --> 00:53:59,510
 We were fortunate enough to get financing for the

781
00:53:59,510 --> 00:53:59,770
 BRT

782
00:53:59,770 --> 00:54:02,120
 and it's cost taxpayers hundreds of millions of

783
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:03,120
 dollars.

784
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:04,420
 We understand the risks,

785
00:54:04,420 --> 00:54:06,710
 hopefully that council back then was more

786
00:54:06,710 --> 00:54:07,170
 informed

787
00:54:07,170 --> 00:54:08,920
 than we are right now.

788
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:11,960
 But I have an obligation on behalf of taxpayers

789
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:14,850
 to ask for more information.

790
00:54:14,850 --> 00:54:18,810
 It is here, somebody has it, somebody's guiding

791
00:54:18,810 --> 00:54:20,100
 this ship

792
00:54:20,100 --> 00:54:25,560
 and I thought it was gonna be council.

793
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:26,910
 I don't think I need more time

794
00:54:26,910 --> 00:54:29,440
 because I don't have anything to talk about

795
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:32,160
 that I haven't read in the newspaper two weeks

796
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:34,920
 ago.

797
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:37,290
 I'm looking at other city's agendas

798
00:54:37,290 --> 00:54:39,330
 trying to get information that isn't being

799
00:54:39,330 --> 00:54:40,520
 provided to me

800
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:42,610
 as an elected official.

801
00:54:42,610 --> 00:54:44,960
 I don't know whose responsibility that is,

802
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:46,390
 but I would like to speak with them

803
00:54:46,390 --> 00:54:48,080
 And I would like to find out how we can do this

804
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:51,920
 better.

805
00:54:51,920 --> 00:55:10,060
 - Other speakers, go to Councilor Roman.

806
00:55:10,060 --> 00:55:11,120
 - Thank you and through you.

807
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:14,350
 So I appreciate the work of staff and the mayor

808
00:55:14,350 --> 00:55:15,450
 on this item.

809
00:55:15,450 --> 00:55:20,970
 And I understand the timeline issues that we have

810
00:55:20,970 --> 00:55:21,420
.

811
00:55:21,420 --> 00:55:25,200
 I do find it rich that we're being asked

812
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:28,210
 to provide this information in such such a tight

813
00:55:28,210 --> 00:55:29,300
 timeline

814
00:55:29,300 --> 00:55:32,650
 when information was only fully provided on

815
00:55:32,650 --> 00:55:34,080
 Saturday

816
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:38,060
 and clarified to our staff and to the mayor.

817
00:55:38,060 --> 00:55:42,170
 And I thank the mayor and other mayors across

818
00:55:42,170 --> 00:55:42,840
 Ontario

819
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:45,230
 and elsewhere who are asking the right questions

820
00:55:45,230 --> 00:55:47,710
 because I think that's really important.

821
00:55:47,710 --> 00:55:50,190
 But I am rather concerned about the lack of

822
00:55:50,190 --> 00:55:50,900
 information

823
00:55:50,900 --> 00:55:53,030
 to make this decision at this point.

824
00:55:53,030 --> 00:55:58,000
 Unfortunately, again, I feel like I want to

825
00:55:58,000 --> 00:55:59,250
 support this

826
00:55:59,250 --> 00:56:01,740
 but I don't have enough information to do so at

827
00:56:01,740 --> 00:56:03,270
 this time.

828
00:56:03,270 --> 00:56:06,390
 Is there any other, I guess my question to staff,

829
00:56:06,390 --> 00:56:08,400
 is there any other information that will be

830
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:08,870
 provided

831
00:56:08,870 --> 00:56:14,470
 to Council following this meeting?

832
00:56:14,470 --> 00:56:20,090
 - I'll go to Deputy City Manager.

833
00:56:20,090 --> 00:56:21,530
 - Thank you for the chair.

834
00:56:21,530 --> 00:56:23,800
 So one of the things that we try to do

835
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:25,520
 is to put forward as much information

836
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:27,850
 as we have with certainty.

837
00:56:27,850 --> 00:56:29,900
 Certainly all of the other municipalities

838
00:56:29,900 --> 00:56:32,100
 that have brought forward reports

839
00:56:32,100 --> 00:56:35,130
 receive delegated authority to complete the TPA

840
00:56:35,130 --> 00:56:36,480
 and not come back.

841
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:38,760
 So with their submission of the application,

842
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:41,270
 they're not actually going to be reporting back

843
00:56:41,270 --> 00:56:43,460
 until after they've committed the municipality.

844
00:56:43,460 --> 00:56:44,940
 We did not choose that approach.

845
00:56:44,940 --> 00:56:48,210
 We chose to put the empowerment in council

846
00:56:48,210 --> 00:56:52,040
 so that when, if the city of London is actually

847
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:53,240
 accepted

848
00:56:53,240 --> 00:56:56,410
 to proceed with this program, that at that time,

849
00:56:56,410 --> 00:56:58,540
 all of the risks and all of the information is

850
00:56:58,540 --> 00:56:59,190
 known

851
00:56:59,190 --> 00:57:01,850
 since there are many variables that could vary

852
00:57:01,850 --> 00:57:04,840
 between what we submit versus what is actually

853
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:05,870
 accepted

854
00:57:05,870 --> 00:57:11,340
 through a potential successful application and T

855
00:57:11,340 --> 00:57:11,610
PA

856
00:57:11,610 --> 00:57:13,930
 that may be presented for canceled design.

857
00:57:13,930 --> 00:57:16,440
 So certainly that was something we took

858
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:20,560
 with a great thoughtfulness to ensure

859
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:22,710
 that we weren't going forward to rush

860
00:57:22,710 --> 00:57:25,580
 to bring you information that was going to change

861
00:57:25,580 --> 00:57:25,830
.

862
00:57:25,830 --> 00:57:29,070
 So we have estimates and many, many estimates

863
00:57:29,070 --> 00:57:30,740
 that we are trying to refine.

864
00:57:30,740 --> 00:57:33,220
 I did not feel it was prudent to put forward

865
00:57:33,220 --> 00:57:33,860
 estimates

866
00:57:33,860 --> 00:57:36,900
 that we're going to change possibly before we

867
00:57:36,900 --> 00:57:37,510
 submit,

868
00:57:37,510 --> 00:57:40,830
 but I am happy to provide that information

869
00:57:40,830 --> 00:57:42,590
 as soon as we're able to finalize it

870
00:57:42,590 --> 00:57:44,280
 and submit an application.

871
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:46,820
 And unfortunately, this amount of work

872
00:57:46,820 --> 00:57:48,540
 is something that we would typically do

873
00:57:48,540 --> 00:57:50,210
 over two months of time.

874
00:57:50,210 --> 00:57:52,170
 So to collect all of the detail

875
00:57:52,170 --> 00:57:53,730
 that is within this application

876
00:57:53,730 --> 00:57:56,960
 that is incredibly nuanced and detailed,

877
00:57:56,960 --> 00:57:58,960
 the staff have been prioritizing this

878
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:00,280
 above all of the work we have

879
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:02,160
 to even get to this point today,

880
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:04,850
 to have estimates to give you certainty

881
00:58:04,850 --> 00:58:07,410
 that we are looking to submit at 50%.

882
00:58:07,410 --> 00:58:11,240
 So absolutely, if council would like a note prior

883
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:15,560
 to receiving any successful outcome of this

884
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:16,240
 application,

885
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:20,660
 we're happy to provide a note to council

886
00:58:20,660 --> 00:58:22,750
 to let you know what we're submitting,

887
00:58:22,750 --> 00:58:25,170
 but there is no guarantees based on what we

888
00:58:25,170 --> 00:58:25,760
 submit

889
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:27,710
 will be anything remotely close to what is

890
00:58:27,710 --> 00:58:28,190
 accepted

891
00:58:28,190 --> 00:58:30,250
 and what ultimately would be required to be

892
00:58:30,250 --> 00:58:31,260
 signed into TPA.

893
00:58:31,260 --> 00:58:33,290
 So if that's certainly something the council

894
00:58:33,290 --> 00:58:33,650
 would love

895
00:58:33,650 --> 00:58:36,350
 to know Friday, once we submit the application,

896
00:58:36,350 --> 00:58:38,500
 we'd be happy to create a note and provide

897
00:58:38,500 --> 00:58:44,990
 what we've submitted to the council at that time.

898
00:58:44,990 --> 00:58:47,090
 - I go ahead, Councillor ramen.

899
00:58:47,090 --> 00:58:48,800
 - Thank you.

900
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:53,010
 So yes, I would appreciate receiving a memo to

901
00:58:53,010 --> 00:58:53,720
 council

902
00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:57,350
 or to, I personally would appreciate that.

903
00:58:57,350 --> 00:59:02,060
 That aligns up with our submission.

904
00:59:02,060 --> 00:59:04,200
 I think that would be helpful to have.

905
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:09,030
 I want to get a sense also.

906
00:59:09,030 --> 00:59:11,800
 The mayor alluded to the fact that this would

907
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:12,460
 help us

908
00:59:12,460 --> 00:59:16,560
 to meet the permissions that have already been

909
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:17,130
 made.

910
00:59:17,130 --> 00:59:19,320
 But this is a 10 year agreement.

911
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:22,320
 How does that work with future permissions

912
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:23,940
 or future numbers?

913
00:59:23,940 --> 00:59:28,710
 Do you think we will feel added pressures

914
00:59:28,710 --> 00:59:32,850
 to meet housing demands because of the fact

915
00:59:32,850 --> 00:59:42,700
 that we are signing on to this agreement?

916
00:59:42,700 --> 00:59:44,910
 how I can go to the deputy city manager on that

917
00:59:44,910 --> 00:59:45,510
 if you want.

918
00:59:45,510 --> 00:59:55,780
 Or I think if I could help, sorry, I don't know

919
00:59:55,780 --> 00:59:57,570
 could you hear what Council Raman's question was?

920
00:59:57,570 --> 01:00:00,750
 I see some confused faces.

921
01:00:00,750 --> 01:00:05,710
 Essentially the Council is asking if it's a 10-

922
01:00:05,710 --> 01:00:06,220
year program

923
01:00:06,220 --> 01:00:08,260
 which is funded over 10 years,

924
01:00:08,260 --> 01:00:10,270
 do we have the housing pressure for the 10 years?

925
01:00:10,270 --> 01:00:11,840
 So if you could just comment on the,

926
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:14,290
 it's the projects being funded with housing

927
01:00:14,290 --> 01:00:15,320
 estimates.

928
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:18,330
 Once the projects are funded and the agreement is

929
01:00:18,330 --> 01:00:20,180
 reached,

930
01:00:20,180 --> 01:00:21,310
 the amount of housing that happens

931
01:00:21,310 --> 01:00:22,680
 is gonna be the amount of housing that happens

932
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:22,860
 from it.

933
01:00:22,860 --> 01:00:24,940
 So there's not a digital pressure.

934
01:00:24,940 --> 01:00:26,750
 It's basically the unlocking the pieces in the DC

935
01:00:26,750 --> 01:00:27,020
 fund.

936
01:00:27,020 --> 01:00:29,190
 I think that's pieces around those contexts.

937
01:00:29,190 --> 01:00:35,160
 I think is what the council is going for.

938
01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:36,080
 - Perhaps I'll start.

939
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:38,480
 And if Mr. Mather says anything else to add,

940
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:39,560
 he can proceed.

941
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:42,680
 So there's many components to this project.

942
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:46,270
 So the decision points with respect to the

943
01:00:46,270 --> 01:00:47,200
 applications

944
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:49,330
 and things that come forward will be council

945
01:00:49,330 --> 01:00:49,870
 decisions

946
01:00:49,870 --> 01:00:52,780
 and will be separate and apart in part of the

947
01:00:52,780 --> 01:00:53,950
 normal process.

948
01:00:53,950 --> 01:00:57,310
 However, as part of this program,

949
01:00:57,310 --> 01:01:00,150
 when they look at where we are trying to estimate

950
01:01:00,150 --> 01:01:00,250
,

951
01:01:00,150 --> 01:01:03,140
 potentially, what the number of permits

952
01:01:03,140 --> 01:01:05,780
 would be pulled over the next three years

953
01:01:05,780 --> 01:01:08,620
 to try to balance out the number of the projects

954
01:01:08,620 --> 01:01:10,420
 for which we are bringing forward

955
01:01:10,420 --> 01:01:13,420
 to ask for funding as part of this program.

956
01:01:13,420 --> 01:01:17,410
 So the program works is specific to 90%

957
01:01:17,410 --> 01:01:20,290
 of the eligible projects for which the province

958
01:01:20,290 --> 01:01:22,610
 would approve through this process.

959
01:01:22,610 --> 01:01:25,770
 Those are projects that are already within our DC

960
01:01:25,770 --> 01:01:26,290
 study

961
01:01:26,290 --> 01:01:28,440
 and that we would look to recover those costs

962
01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:29,240
 over time.

963
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:32,600
 So one of the, I mean, one of the key risks are,

964
01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:34,680
 if we continue to do all of this

965
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:37,800
 and the housing doesn't actually materialize,

966
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:40,950
 we've received funding that would allow us

967
01:01:40,950 --> 01:01:43,310
 to create the infrastructure,

968
01:01:43,310 --> 01:01:46,550
 but for which perhaps the province did not see

969
01:01:46,550 --> 01:01:47,750
 the outcome

970
01:01:47,750 --> 01:01:50,890
 of the number of permits for which we anticipated

971
01:01:50,890 --> 01:01:51,190
.

972
01:01:51,190 --> 01:01:53,990
 that could be a potential risk that may be

973
01:01:53,990 --> 01:01:54,300
 addressed

974
01:01:54,300 --> 01:01:57,240
 through the TPA that could result in clawback of

975
01:01:57,240 --> 01:01:57,980
 funding.

976
01:01:57,980 --> 01:01:59,820
 Those are all unknowns at this point

977
01:01:59,820 --> 01:02:02,100
 and things that when we identified

978
01:02:02,100 --> 01:02:03,900
 that we don't have all the risks,

979
01:02:03,900 --> 01:02:05,140
 they're challenging to quantify

980
01:02:05,140 --> 01:02:07,400
 because they'll be subject to whatever is in that

981
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:07,810
 TPA

982
01:02:07,810 --> 01:02:09,770
 that the city of London will have to fund.

983
01:02:09,770 --> 01:02:13,540
 So the infrastructure funding through this

984
01:02:13,540 --> 01:02:14,090
 program

985
01:02:14,090 --> 01:02:16,450
 will be independent and separate and apart

986
01:02:16,450 --> 01:02:18,650
 from ultimately what the building permits are

987
01:02:18,650 --> 01:02:21,160
 and what the approvals that council will grant.

988
01:02:21,160 --> 01:02:23,680
 Those will still come through the normal process

989
01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:26,490
 and would be subject to the normal planning

990
01:02:26,490 --> 01:02:26,960
 review

991
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:28,560
 and site plan applications

992
01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:30,820
 and whatever housing is created through that

993
01:02:30,820 --> 01:02:31,720
 period of time.

994
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:34,310
 So that's where if, you know, from that process,

995
01:02:34,310 --> 01:02:36,070
 it'll be separate and subject to the reports

996
01:02:36,070 --> 01:02:38,310
 that Mr. Mather's team will bring forward.

997
01:02:38,310 --> 01:02:41,430
 So there'll still be independent decisions

998
01:02:41,430 --> 01:02:43,350
 that council would be making

999
01:02:43,350 --> 01:02:49,970
 as those planning applications come forward.

1000
01:02:49,970 --> 01:02:52,520
 - Go ahead, Mr. Mathers.

1001
01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:53,340
 through your worship.

1002
01:02:53,340 --> 01:02:55,590
 Also, I'll just add in that on that annual basis,

1003
01:02:55,590 --> 01:02:57,940
 we'll be able to course correct through our GMIS

1004
01:02:57,940 --> 01:02:58,340
 process.

1005
01:02:58,340 --> 01:03:00,280
 So that goes with management and implementation

1006
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:00,850
 strategy.

1007
01:03:00,850 --> 01:03:02,250
 You'll have the next report.

1008
01:03:02,250 --> 01:03:04,400
 I'll actually be at the next planning committee.

1009
01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:06,950
 That's just in the next week.

1010
01:03:06,950 --> 01:03:10,010
 And any other projects that, if there's a

1011
01:03:10,010 --> 01:03:10,570
 slowdown

1012
01:03:10,570 --> 01:03:11,930
 or if there is increased activity,

1013
01:03:11,930 --> 01:03:13,600
 we'll be able to adjust the timing

1014
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:15,160
 through that process as well.

1015
01:03:15,160 --> 01:03:18,990
 So whatever we submit through this application

1016
01:03:18,990 --> 01:03:20,890
 will be fairly fixed projects,

1017
01:03:20,890 --> 01:03:23,000
 but there is some other flexibility within our

1018
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:23,370
 program

1019
01:03:23,370 --> 01:03:27,950
 that you'll be able to review on an annual basis.

1020
01:03:27,950 --> 01:03:30,860
 - Councilor ramen.

1021
01:03:30,860 --> 01:03:33,480
 - Thank you.

1022
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:36,570
 So from a project perspective,

1023
01:03:36,570 --> 01:03:39,380
 knowing some of the projects that we have,

1024
01:03:39,380 --> 01:03:42,160
 that we were planning to move forward with,

1025
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:47,710
 how do we know when and if and how

1026
01:03:47,710 --> 01:03:50,890
 they will be housing-enabled infrastructure?

1027
01:03:50,890 --> 01:03:53,800
 So I'm just thinking about, for instance,

1028
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:54,870
 just to give you an example,

1029
01:03:54,870 --> 01:03:57,930
 the Sunnydale Road continuation Richmond to

1030
01:03:57,930 --> 01:03:58,620
 Adelaide,

1031
01:03:58,620 --> 01:04:02,280
 which we were able to get housing enabled funding

1032
01:04:02,280 --> 01:04:05,230
 for the portion from Wonderland to Richmond.

1033
01:04:05,230 --> 01:04:08,980
 So I assume that next tranches is potentially

1034
01:04:08,980 --> 01:04:09,890
 eligible.

1035
01:04:09,890 --> 01:04:12,650
 But how do we know that that went into the

1036
01:04:12,650 --> 01:04:13,310
 application?

1037
01:04:13,310 --> 01:04:16,370
 I guess, are there just certain projects

1038
01:04:16,370 --> 01:04:17,970
 that we're looking to advance

1039
01:04:17,970 --> 01:04:22,020
 that maybe we can have some kind of indication on

1040
01:04:22,020 --> 01:04:23,080
 right now?

1041
01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:25,040
 because I want to make sure that that's a

1042
01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:25,570
 priority

1043
01:04:25,570 --> 01:04:29,670
 and continues to be one.

1044
01:04:29,670 --> 01:04:33,250
 - I'll go to Deputy City Manager to start.

1045
01:04:33,250 --> 01:04:38,540
 You can throw it off to more Mr. Mathers, go

1046
01:04:38,540 --> 01:04:39,970
 ahead.

1047
01:04:39,970 --> 01:04:40,850
 - Thank you through the chair.

1048
01:04:40,850 --> 01:04:43,050
 So as we look at all the projects

1049
01:04:43,050 --> 01:04:46,630
 that are within our development charge background

1050
01:04:46,630 --> 01:04:47,290
 study,

1051
01:04:47,290 --> 01:04:49,870
 all of the projects have associated impacts

1052
01:04:49,870 --> 01:04:54,340
 to the number of growth and housing enabling

1053
01:04:54,340 --> 01:04:54,720
 units

1054
01:04:54,720 --> 01:04:56,350
 that it could link to.

1055
01:04:56,350 --> 01:04:59,530
 So I'll just use a specific race and example

1056
01:04:59,530 --> 01:05:02,390
 with some of the water and wastewater projects.

1057
01:05:02,390 --> 01:05:05,220
 As we look at certain projects,

1058
01:05:05,220 --> 01:05:07,470
 a water wastewater project would have so many

1059
01:05:07,470 --> 01:05:07,920
 homes

1060
01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:10,470
 that it would enable as a result

1061
01:05:10,470 --> 01:05:14,410
 of making the pipes bigger, for example.

1062
01:05:14,410 --> 01:05:16,790
 A road will allow so many new homes

1063
01:05:16,790 --> 01:05:20,250
 to be upgraded within a subdivision.

1064
01:05:20,250 --> 01:05:22,670
 Those are the calculations that we are now,

1065
01:05:22,670 --> 01:05:24,500
 so we've created some sort of a matrix

1066
01:05:24,500 --> 01:05:27,300
 to help us assess all of the projects

1067
01:05:27,300 --> 01:05:30,260
 that are within our DC background study

1068
01:05:30,260 --> 01:05:32,570
 to try to work with all of the service areas.

1069
01:05:32,570 --> 01:05:34,650
 So this is where we've been working very closely

1070
01:05:34,650 --> 01:05:37,450
 with Ms. Sharer's team to look at all of the

1071
01:05:37,450 --> 01:05:37,800
 projects

1072
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:40,470
 and start to look at all of those units

1073
01:05:40,470 --> 01:05:42,790
 that could be enabled through the various forms

1074
01:05:42,790 --> 01:05:44,190
 of infrastructure.

1075
01:05:44,190 --> 01:05:47,260
 So for example, a road has allocations

1076
01:05:47,260 --> 01:05:49,970
 to certain traffic zones that would estimate

1077
01:05:49,970 --> 01:05:52,310
 how many homes and residential units could be

1078
01:05:52,310 --> 01:05:52,850
 built.

1079
01:05:52,850 --> 01:05:54,120
 So those are the kinds of things,

1080
01:05:54,120 --> 01:05:55,980
 which is why there's so much analysis

1081
01:05:55,980 --> 01:05:57,800
 that is going on behind the scenes

1082
01:05:57,800 --> 01:06:00,050
 to try to estimate what those are and refine what

1083
01:06:00,050 --> 01:06:00,670
 those are.

1084
01:06:00,670 --> 01:06:03,070
 So that's the work that's taking place,

1085
01:06:03,070 --> 01:06:05,420
 and those are the calculations that we're doing.

1086
01:06:05,420 --> 01:06:07,580
 So as we look at all of those matrices

1087
01:06:07,580 --> 01:06:10,450
 to look at the costs, as well as the associated

1088
01:06:10,450 --> 01:06:14,070
 housing enabling parts that come with it,

1089
01:06:14,070 --> 01:06:17,130
 we're able to refine and look at the values

1090
01:06:17,130 --> 01:06:19,670
 as well as the housing units that could be

1091
01:06:19,670 --> 01:06:20,230
 created

1092
01:06:20,230 --> 01:06:22,080
 to see what the best applications

1093
01:06:22,080 --> 01:06:24,940
 the variations of applications could be created

1094
01:06:24,940 --> 01:06:27,720
 to fund a project that we would put forward.

1095
01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:30,580
 Hopefully that's helpful.

1096
01:06:30,580 --> 01:06:32,640
 - Councilor Raman.

1097
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:34,310
 - Thank you, it is.

1098
01:06:34,310 --> 01:06:36,260
 Just one final question, I guess,

1099
01:06:36,260 --> 01:06:37,450
 or a series of questions.

1100
01:06:37,450 --> 01:06:40,340
 And my question is, is the ultimate goal

1101
01:06:40,340 --> 01:06:44,310
 to reduce the cost of housing for potential

1102
01:06:44,310 --> 01:06:45,310
 buyers?

1103
01:06:45,310 --> 01:06:53,780
 - I'm happy to take a shot at that.

1104
01:06:53,780 --> 01:06:58,180
 Yes, the province is trying to reduce costs for

1105
01:06:58,180 --> 01:06:58,750
 buyers.

1106
01:06:59,110 --> 01:07:03,110
 also get housing moving, support the construction

1107
01:07:03,110 --> 01:07:04,080
 industry.

1108
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:06,740
 They feel like this program combines

1109
01:07:06,740 --> 01:07:11,920
 with the HST GST cut in a way

1110
01:07:11,920 --> 01:07:15,440
 that could really bring down the costs of new

1111
01:07:15,440 --> 01:07:15,760
 housing

1112
01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:19,120
 and get a lot of those housing units moving.

1113
01:07:19,120 --> 01:07:22,070
 So I think it is both a cost reduction

1114
01:07:22,070 --> 01:07:25,500
 that actually would trigger sales in the market,

1115
01:07:25,500 --> 01:07:26,620
 which would trigger building,

1116
01:07:26,620 --> 01:07:28,650
 which would trigger housing units that they want.

1117
01:07:28,650 --> 01:07:30,750
 So that's my understanding of,

1118
01:07:30,750 --> 01:07:32,170
 it's also my understanding of the speed

1119
01:07:32,170 --> 01:07:35,130
 of whether moving with the amount of speed that

1120
01:07:35,130 --> 01:07:35,960
 they are.

1121
01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:37,350
 This is a government program.

1122
01:07:37,350 --> 01:07:39,390
 Like we've never had this short amount of a time

1123
01:07:39,390 --> 01:07:41,100
 to pull together and apply for.

1124
01:07:41,100 --> 01:07:43,160
 They're trying to get their programs up and

1125
01:07:43,160 --> 01:07:44,210
 running well.

1126
01:07:44,210 --> 01:07:48,760
 It's within the window of the HSTGST cut

1127
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:50,660
 at the federal and provincial levels on new

1128
01:07:50,660 --> 01:07:51,080
 housing

1129
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:53,710
 so that they align and create a catalyst effect.

1130
01:07:53,710 --> 01:07:54,750
 I don't know if Mr. May, there's

1131
01:07:54,750 --> 01:07:56,100
 or anybody else has anything to add to that.

1132
01:07:56,100 --> 01:07:57,600
 That's my understanding of the government's

1133
01:07:57,600 --> 01:07:58,100
 motivation.

1134
01:07:58,100 --> 01:07:59,890
 I mean, you could always ask the government,

1135
01:07:59,890 --> 01:08:01,210
 but from everything I know,

1136
01:08:01,210 --> 01:08:05,970
 it's all of those pieces together.

1137
01:08:05,970 --> 01:08:08,330
 - Through you worship yet, that's absolutely

1138
01:08:08,330 --> 01:08:10,770
 what we've understood from our conversations

1139
01:08:10,770 --> 01:08:12,890
 with different levels of government on this issue

1140
01:08:12,890 --> 01:08:13,090
.

1141
01:08:13,090 --> 01:08:17,470
 Absolutely, thanks.

1142
01:08:17,470 --> 01:08:19,010
 - Councilor Roman.

1143
01:08:19,010 --> 01:08:19,850
 - Thank you.

1144
01:08:19,850 --> 01:08:21,340
 And I'm just wondering about the checks and

1145
01:08:21,340 --> 01:08:22,240
 balances on that.

1146
01:08:22,240 --> 01:08:25,500
 If they shared anything with you at that meeting.

1147
01:08:25,500 --> 01:08:29,630
 And lastly, what's the impact to current homes,

1148
01:08:29,630 --> 01:08:31,580
 not new homes in the market?

1149
01:08:31,580 --> 01:08:34,010
 And how has that analysis been done

1150
01:08:34,010 --> 01:08:38,430
 and what's factored in on that side?

1151
01:08:38,430 --> 01:08:40,410
 - Yeah, so the only details that they would have

1152
01:08:40,410 --> 01:08:40,610
 shared

1153
01:08:40,610 --> 01:08:42,460
 on that is just the stuff that I've shared with

1154
01:08:42,460 --> 01:08:42,590
 you

1155
01:08:42,590 --> 01:08:45,520
 as well as the communications that they've made

1156
01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:47,040
 in their announcements as well as their

1157
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:47,860
 commentary

1158
01:08:47,860 --> 01:08:51,580
 in the media on the confirmation of their

1159
01:08:51,580 --> 01:08:52,210
 motivation

1160
01:08:52,210 --> 01:08:53,970
 for bringing forward the program.

1161
01:08:53,970 --> 01:08:57,950
 I'm not an expert on existing sales.

1162
01:08:57,950 --> 01:09:00,620
 I can imagine incentives for new sales

1163
01:09:00,620 --> 01:09:02,410
 probably push the market in that direction

1164
01:09:02,410 --> 01:09:05,720
 and away from resales for a period of time.

1165
01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:07,670
 But that's, I mean, that's more of a real estate

1166
01:09:07,670 --> 01:09:08,070
 question

1167
01:09:08,070 --> 01:09:09,620
 than the question that I can answer.

1168
01:09:09,620 --> 01:09:11,480
 I'm not sure if our staff have any commentary on

1169
01:09:11,480 --> 01:09:11,730
 that.

1170
01:09:11,730 --> 01:09:15,310
 No, they wouldn't be able to answer that either.

1171
01:09:15,310 --> 01:09:16,680
 - Thank you.

1172
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:18,390
 Just my final comment on this.

1173
01:09:18,390 --> 01:09:22,070
 So I see this is something I'm going to support

1174
01:09:22,070 --> 01:09:24,880
 because it's a report back next step and more

1175
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:25,570
 details.

1176
01:09:25,570 --> 01:09:28,550
 But ultimately, I mean, I think we all need

1177
01:09:28,550 --> 01:09:30,300
 the federal government to tighten up.

1178
01:09:30,300 --> 01:09:32,250
 This is loose, it's speculative.

1179
01:09:32,250 --> 01:09:34,750
 And it to me, it's not well planned at this point

1180
01:09:34,750 --> 01:09:34,850
,

1181
01:09:34,750 --> 01:09:37,100
 but I'll wait to see what the what that comes

1182
01:09:37,100 --> 01:09:38,240
 back.

1183
01:09:38,910 --> 01:09:40,670
 - Okay, thank you, Councillor Hopkins, you're

1184
01:09:40,670 --> 01:09:43,110
 next.

1185
01:09:43,110 --> 01:09:45,080
 - Yeah, thank you, your worship.

1186
01:09:45,080 --> 01:09:50,230
 Maybe I'll just start off with thanking staff

1187
01:09:50,230 --> 01:09:53,100
 for getting us some information.

1188
01:09:53,100 --> 01:09:55,960
 I know the timelines have been really tight.

1189
01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:58,780
 It reminds me of other legislation that has come

1190
01:09:58,780 --> 01:09:59,260
 to us

1191
01:09:59,260 --> 01:10:02,240
 in the past number of years, like Bill 23,

1192
01:10:02,240 --> 01:10:05,930
 where we had a little information as a council.

1193
01:10:05,930 --> 01:10:08,570
 We had a big learning curve.

1194
01:10:08,570 --> 01:10:14,360
 so I am a little bit frustrated with that and I

1195
01:10:14,360 --> 01:10:17,690
 would encourage staff to share and give

1196
01:10:17,690 --> 01:10:21,040
 counsel as much information and update us as

1197
01:10:21,040 --> 01:10:25,550
 possible. I want to thank the Mayor too. I

1198
01:10:25,550 --> 01:10:26,260
 appreciate

1199
01:10:26,260 --> 01:10:33,230
 what he has relayed to us from OBCM. I'm glad to

1200
01:10:33,230 --> 01:10:37,660
 hear that some changes were made from that

1201
01:10:37,660 --> 01:10:43,190
 meeting. I'm also very appreciative to understand

1202
01:10:43,190 --> 01:10:45,850
 that our taxes aren't going to go up yet. So

1203
01:10:45,850 --> 01:10:49,070
 thank you for that. I am going to be at an AMO

1204
01:10:49,070 --> 01:10:51,760
 board meeting in the next two days.

1205
01:10:51,760 --> 01:10:55,790
 DCs are always a big concern with most

1206
01:10:55,790 --> 01:10:59,220
 municipalities, so I'm quite interested in

1207
01:10:59,220 --> 01:10:59,960
 hearing

1208
01:10:59,960 --> 01:11:02,760
 back from what other municipalities are

1209
01:11:02,760 --> 01:11:05,450
 experiencing and what they're doing and happy to

1210
01:11:05,450 --> 01:11:06,000
 relate that

1211
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:12,630
 information onto Council as well. I want to just

1212
01:11:12,630 --> 01:11:16,590
 maybe stick with the risk here in the revenue gap

1213
01:11:16,590 --> 01:11:16,690
.

1214
01:11:16,670 --> 01:11:22,300
 The cash flow, the costs, they are something that

1215
01:11:22,300 --> 01:11:26,230
 I have heard loud and clear and that we are going

1216
01:11:26,230 --> 01:11:28,790
 to be responsible for, but I really don't know

1217
01:11:28,790 --> 01:11:31,480
 how that's going to look like. I'm just sharing

1218
01:11:31,480 --> 01:11:36,290
 that concern there. The assessment that's going

1219
01:11:36,290 --> 01:11:39,120
 to come back to us I do have a question about

1220
01:11:39,120 --> 01:11:39,360
 that

1221
01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:42,290
 the mayor mentioned it's called the transfer

1222
01:11:42,290 --> 01:11:46,720
 payment agreement. I'm glad we're not really

1223
01:11:46,720 --> 01:11:49,780
 making any decision right now but if I could go

1224
01:11:49,780 --> 01:11:52,680
 through your your worship to staff and have a

1225
01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:55,150
 better understanding what that is going to look

1226
01:11:55,150 --> 01:11:59,790
 like. Sure happy to just any context and give on

1227
01:11:59,790 --> 01:12:01,560
 on the transfer payment agreement process

1228
01:12:01,560 --> 01:12:05,820
 and the decision being made at that time.

1229
01:12:05,820 --> 01:12:07,280
 - Thank you, through your worship.

1230
01:12:07,280 --> 01:12:11,390
 So, consistent with many of the provincial

1231
01:12:11,390 --> 01:12:14,780
 or federal grants, the province and the feds,

1232
01:12:14,780 --> 01:12:16,900
 provide an agreement for which sets out

1233
01:12:16,900 --> 01:12:18,580
 all the terms and conditions,

1234
01:12:18,580 --> 01:12:21,540
 as well as the projects over the defined period

1235
01:12:21,540 --> 01:12:21,970
 of time

1236
01:12:21,970 --> 01:12:25,200
 for which they will, the manner in which they

1237
01:12:25,200 --> 01:12:25,840
 will pay,

1238
01:12:25,840 --> 01:12:28,670
 cash flow and the reporting requirements that are

1239
01:12:28,670 --> 01:12:29,240
 there.

1240
01:12:29,240 --> 01:12:32,310
 So certainly through this application,

1241
01:12:32,310 --> 01:12:35,020
 we do not know what a TPA will look like

1242
01:12:35,020 --> 01:12:35,900
 at this point in time.

1243
01:12:35,900 --> 01:12:37,780
 We haven't been provided a draft,

1244
01:12:37,780 --> 01:12:40,130
 but I expect many of the terms and conditions

1245
01:12:40,130 --> 01:12:42,890
 will be very similar to terms and conditions

1246
01:12:42,890 --> 01:12:45,050
 that are in previous transfer payment agreements

1247
01:12:45,050 --> 01:12:47,200
 that the city has signed with the province

1248
01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:48,560
 and the federal government.

1249
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:51,790
 So from that perspective, certainly what we do

1250
01:12:51,790 --> 01:12:52,070
 know

1251
01:12:52,070 --> 01:12:56,300
 is it will be a 90% funding of eligible program

1252
01:12:56,300 --> 01:12:56,780
 costs.

1253
01:12:56,780 --> 01:12:59,860
 So based on the application and the projects that

1254
01:12:59,860 --> 01:13:01,430
 we submit,

1255
01:13:01,430 --> 01:13:04,260
 those would look to pay 90% of what those

1256
01:13:04,260 --> 01:13:05,010
 eligible costs

1257
01:13:05,010 --> 01:13:07,820
 are going to be, 10% needs to be born by the

1258
01:13:07,820 --> 01:13:08,810
 municipality.

1259
01:13:08,810 --> 01:13:12,210
 And specifically, we are identifying projects

1260
01:13:12,210 --> 01:13:15,010
 that show and demonstrate what the city's

1261
01:13:15,010 --> 01:13:15,800
 contribution

1262
01:13:15,800 --> 01:13:19,360
 already is to those projects that involve

1263
01:13:19,360 --> 01:13:20,640
 already taxpayer funding.

1264
01:13:20,640 --> 01:13:23,960
 So as Mr. Mayor had said at the very beginning,

1265
01:13:23,960 --> 01:13:25,870
 there are a number of projects.

1266
01:13:25,870 --> 01:13:28,190
 There are only a certain component of a total

1267
01:13:28,190 --> 01:13:28,730
 project

1268
01:13:28,730 --> 01:13:30,620
 that is actually funded through development

1269
01:13:30,620 --> 01:13:31,150
 charges.

1270
01:13:31,150 --> 01:13:33,250
 The large portion of it is already funded

1271
01:13:33,250 --> 01:13:34,990
 typically by the municipality

1272
01:13:34,990 --> 01:13:37,790
 because the projects may go over a much larger

1273
01:13:37,790 --> 01:13:38,620
 timeframe

1274
01:13:38,620 --> 01:13:41,180
 than which the growth for the development charge

1275
01:13:41,180 --> 01:13:43,260
 background study supports.

1276
01:13:43,260 --> 01:13:45,820
 So we are putting forward an application

1277
01:13:45,820 --> 01:13:48,730
 that maximizes as well when we look at all of our

1278
01:13:48,730 --> 01:13:49,410
 projects,

1279
01:13:49,410 --> 01:13:51,010
 the amount of the municipal contribution

1280
01:13:51,010 --> 01:13:51,890
 that is already there.

1281
01:13:51,890 --> 01:13:54,700
 So what we're trying to do is take all of those

1282
01:13:54,700 --> 01:13:55,290
 criteria

1283
01:13:55,290 --> 01:13:57,550
 the province has put forward as part of their

1284
01:13:57,550 --> 01:13:59,770
 guidelines and looking at everything to try to

1285
01:13:59,770 --> 01:14:02,190
 maximize and put forward as best an application

1286
01:14:02,190 --> 01:14:04,960
 that could be forward. So that's what we know

1287
01:14:04,960 --> 01:14:05,120
 will

1288
01:14:05,120 --> 01:14:07,180
 be reflected as part of the transfer payment

1289
01:14:07,180 --> 01:14:10,880
 agreement that will come forward with respect to

1290
01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:13,750
 if there is higher or lower DC revenues

1291
01:14:13,750 --> 01:14:17,270
 associated than our application. Those are still

1292
01:14:17,270 --> 01:14:17,670
 not known

1293
01:14:17,670 --> 01:14:19,950
 at this point, but there certainly has been

1294
01:14:19,950 --> 01:14:22,550
 considerations that the province said they may

1295
01:14:22,550 --> 01:14:25,350
 consider could be stipulations within the

1296
01:14:25,350 --> 01:14:27,400
 agreement so until we see what the

1297
01:14:27,400 --> 01:14:29,140
 form of that agreement is going to be we don't

1298
01:14:29,140 --> 01:14:30,940
 really know for certain which is

1299
01:14:30,940 --> 01:14:32,870
 why it's important we feel rather than having

1300
01:14:32,870 --> 01:14:34,780
 delegated authority now that we

1301
01:14:34,780 --> 01:14:37,580
 bring back whatever we are successful with noting

1302
01:14:37,580 --> 01:14:38,690
 that that could be very

1303
01:14:38,690 --> 01:14:42,100
 different than what we submit this Friday to be

1304
01:14:42,100 --> 01:14:43,490
 able to bring something

1305
01:14:43,490 --> 01:14:45,790
 forward so as soon as we have that information we

1306
01:14:45,790 --> 01:14:46,930
 will endeavor to bring

1307
01:14:46,930 --> 01:14:49,100
 that all forward for councils approval and

1308
01:14:49,100 --> 01:14:51,440
 anything will be retroactive at that

1309
01:14:51,440 --> 01:14:54,250
 point in time and we would need to also look at

1310
01:14:54,250 --> 01:14:55,840
 the mechanism in which we

1311
01:14:55,840 --> 01:15:00,120
 provide potential changes to those that have

1312
01:15:00,120 --> 01:15:02,830
 already paid their DCs since that

1313
01:15:02,830 --> 01:15:08,130
 March 30th date. Councillor Hopkins. Yeah, just

1314
01:15:08,130 --> 01:15:09,800
 as a follow-up to that. So would

1315
01:15:09,800 --> 01:15:15,420
 the province be picking the projects then? Go to

1316
01:15:15,420 --> 01:15:18,680
 the deputy city manager. Thank

1317
01:15:18,680 --> 01:15:20,580
 you for the chair. The province will be

1318
01:15:20,580 --> 01:15:23,060
 determining what portions they fund of

1319
01:15:23,060 --> 01:15:25,830
 the projects that we are going to submit through

1320
01:15:25,830 --> 01:15:27,710
 the application. So that is

1321
01:15:27,710 --> 01:15:30,510
 where through the matrix that we are looking at

1322
01:15:30,510 --> 01:15:33,450
 all of the eligibility criteria to make the best

1323
01:15:33,450 --> 01:15:36,320
 assessment to maximize the projects we put

1324
01:15:36,320 --> 01:15:39,650
 forward that we will submit on Friday as part of

1325
01:15:39,650 --> 01:15:40,130
 the city's

1326
01:15:40,130 --> 01:15:43,840
 application to achieve a 50 percent DC reduction.

1327
01:15:43,840 --> 01:15:46,870
 The city will choose the projects. We are looking

1328
01:15:46,870 --> 01:15:50,810
 to put forward the projects that will best meet

1329
01:15:50,810 --> 01:15:55,430
 the housing enabling portion of it, what will be

1330
01:15:55,430 --> 01:16:01,040
 eligible to maximize the lost DC revenues as well

1331
01:16:01,040 --> 01:16:03,280
 as maximizing the city's

1332
01:16:03,280 --> 01:16:06,940
 contribution in excess of 10 percent. So the city

1333
01:16:06,940 --> 01:16:08,360
 will choose what the best

1334
01:16:08,360 --> 01:16:11,220
 projects are that fit that criteria that we will

1335
01:16:11,220 --> 01:16:12,890
 submit on Friday and then

1336
01:16:12,890 --> 01:16:15,400
 subject to the assessment the province will

1337
01:16:15,400 --> 01:16:17,870
 determine how much of those they

1338
01:16:17,870 --> 01:16:19,810
 choose are deemed to be eligible and how much

1339
01:16:19,810 --> 01:16:21,170
 funding potentially could be

1340
01:16:21,170 --> 01:16:27,860
 provided. Councilor Hopkins. And last follow-up

1341
01:16:27,860 --> 01:16:32,790
 question to that is so the city will be picking

1342
01:16:32,790 --> 01:16:38,040
 that the projects province will be assessing it

1343
01:16:38,040 --> 01:16:40,680
 all that information will come back to us in

1344
01:16:40,680 --> 01:16:44,040
 August. We will at that time be making a decision

1345
01:16:44,040 --> 01:16:48,540
. I understand that we're having a PPM for the GM

1346
01:16:48,540 --> 01:16:48,980
IS

1347
01:16:48,980 --> 01:16:52,130
 so our strategies and assessments how much do

1348
01:16:52,130 --> 01:16:55,690
 they play into these projects or is it just

1349
01:16:55,690 --> 01:16:56,580
 strictly

1350
01:16:56,580 --> 01:17:05,730
 project by project that qualify for DCs. I'm just

1351
01:17:05,730 --> 01:17:07,910
 trying to have a better understanding

1352
01:17:07,910 --> 01:17:14,080
 how we as a city are determining where to go

1353
01:17:14,080 --> 01:17:19,330
 forward with the funding application.

1354
01:17:19,330 --> 01:17:22,850
 Mr. Mathers is going to take the first shot of

1355
01:17:22,850 --> 01:17:24,810
 that. Thank you.

1356
01:17:24,810 --> 01:17:27,560
 Through you, Worship. So the submission will

1357
01:17:27,560 --> 01:17:30,060
 reflect the timing that is being brought forward

1358
01:17:30,060 --> 01:17:34,270
 to committee and council in the next run in the G

1359
01:17:34,270 --> 01:17:35,000
MS report.

1360
01:17:35,000 --> 01:17:39,340
 So we've taken account and ensured that both

1361
01:17:39,340 --> 01:17:39,700
 teams

1362
01:17:39,700 --> 01:17:41,690
 are discussing that timing

1363
01:17:41,690 --> 01:17:44,240
 and that the application that is submitted

1364
01:17:44,240 --> 01:17:46,740
 will reflect any kind of revision and revised

1365
01:17:46,740 --> 01:17:47,060
 timing

1366
01:17:47,060 --> 01:17:51,430
 provided to the council through the GMS process.

1367
01:17:51,430 --> 01:17:53,190
 - Councilor Hopkins.

1368
01:17:53,190 --> 01:17:55,190
 - Yeah, thank you.

1369
01:17:55,190 --> 01:17:58,820
 I'll just finish off with some.

1370
01:17:58,820 --> 01:18:01,160
 I really like the days when both used to pay for

1371
01:18:01,160 --> 01:18:01,560
 growth

1372
01:18:01,560 --> 01:18:03,710
 and I know we are going through a number of

1373
01:18:03,710 --> 01:18:04,330
 challenges

1374
01:18:04,330 --> 01:18:06,620
 with housing infrastructure.

1375
01:18:06,620 --> 01:18:11,710
 For me, the August meeting is where we are going

1376
01:18:11,710 --> 01:18:11,810
 to be,

1377
01:18:11,710 --> 01:18:15,240
 I guess, signing on or not.

1378
01:18:15,240 --> 01:18:17,760
 And that's gonna be an opportunity for us as a

1379
01:18:17,760 --> 01:18:18,250
 council

1380
01:18:18,250 --> 01:18:23,360
 to make further decisions on this application.

1381
01:18:23,360 --> 01:18:25,480
 So look forward to that meeting.

1382
01:18:25,480 --> 01:18:27,630
 Thank you.

1383
01:18:27,630 --> 01:18:31,520
 - Councilor Frank.

1384
01:18:31,520 --> 01:18:33,700
 - Thank you.

1385
01:18:33,700 --> 01:18:35,820
 I just wanted to share my thoughts before we go

1386
01:18:35,820 --> 01:18:36,630
 into vote.

1387
01:18:36,630 --> 01:18:39,330
 To me, it sounds like if we don't apply this week

1388
01:18:39,330 --> 01:18:39,430
,

1389
01:18:39,330 --> 01:18:41,550
 we have no possibility of this money.

1390
01:18:41,550 --> 01:18:43,690
 If we apply this week, we have the possibility of

1391
01:18:43,690 --> 01:18:44,580
 this money.

1392
01:18:44,580 --> 01:18:46,690
 It will all come back to us for a final decision

1393
01:18:46,690 --> 01:18:49,200
 at a later time where we'll get fully-costed

1394
01:18:49,200 --> 01:18:49,800
 projects,

1395
01:18:49,800 --> 01:18:51,870
 we'll completely understand all the impacts

1396
01:18:51,870 --> 01:18:53,980
 of the decision that we're making.

1397
01:18:53,980 --> 01:18:56,130
 So I'm okay with that because I don't want

1398
01:18:56,130 --> 01:18:58,440
 to miss out on this opportunity.

1399
01:18:58,440 --> 01:19:01,420
 I'm a big skeptic of DC rebates and refunds

1400
01:19:01,420 --> 01:19:03,610
 and even myself being a skeptic,

1401
01:19:03,610 --> 01:19:07,320
 I'm okay at this point to save the opportunity

1402
01:19:07,320 --> 01:19:07,650
 for us

1403
01:19:07,650 --> 01:19:10,460
 to make this decision with more information

1404
01:19:10,460 --> 01:19:12,400
 and with the potential of having funding.

1405
01:19:12,400 --> 01:19:16,830
 So I'm not going to avoid that opportunity.

1406
01:19:16,830 --> 01:19:18,230
 So I'll be supporting that today.

1407
01:19:18,230 --> 01:19:22,710
 Thank you.

1408
01:19:22,710 --> 01:19:27,870
 - That's for Ferreira.

1409
01:19:27,870 --> 01:19:29,120
 - Thanks, Chair.

1410
01:19:29,120 --> 01:19:32,470
 I say same sentiments as the comments from Coun

1411
01:19:32,470 --> 01:19:33,030
cillor Frank.

1412
01:19:33,030 --> 01:19:37,120
 I just wanted to ask, like, will this result in,

1413
01:19:37,120 --> 01:19:41,090
 unless I guess tax dollars going to, I guess,

1414
01:19:41,090 --> 01:19:47,050
 supplement for loss DC losses. Like I know we, if

1415
01:19:47,050 --> 01:19:50,580
 you could just remind me, in the past we had some

1416
01:19:50,580 --> 01:19:54,550
 budget items come through where we were paying

1417
01:19:54,550 --> 01:19:57,280
 for some DC losses. So I just wanted to know, in

1418
01:19:57,280 --> 01:20:02,320
 the end, will this result in, I guess, less of

1419
01:20:02,320 --> 01:20:05,110
 our tax dollars going into any potential DC

1420
01:20:05,110 --> 01:20:09,060
 losses.

1421
01:20:09,060 --> 01:20:13,320
 deputy manager. Thank you to the chair. So, this

1422
01:20:13,320 --> 01:20:15,570
 program specifically essentially

1423
01:20:15,570 --> 01:20:19,220
 takes the DC funding that would have otherwise

1424
01:20:19,220 --> 01:20:22,370
 been provided through the DC

1425
01:20:22,370 --> 01:20:26,120
 Reserve funds and collected over time and is

1426
01:20:26,120 --> 01:20:29,130
 replacing it with 90% of the

1427
01:20:29,130 --> 01:20:32,410
 federal provincial funding. So, it is a it's

1428
01:20:32,410 --> 01:20:34,810
 basically a displacement of what

1429
01:20:34,810 --> 01:20:36,490
 would have otherwise been funded through

1430
01:20:36,490 --> 01:20:39,440
 development charges with the recognition

1431
01:20:39,440 --> 01:20:41,700
 that we received on the weekend, that our

1432
01:20:41,700 --> 01:20:45,110
 existing city of London 10% contribution would

1433
01:20:45,110 --> 01:20:45,750
 already be

1434
01:20:45,750 --> 01:20:48,090
 recognized for the funds that we're already using

1435
01:20:48,090 --> 01:20:50,290
. So they're based on the application that we're

1436
01:20:50,290 --> 01:20:53,100
 reviewing and with the clarification that we

1437
01:20:53,100 --> 01:20:55,640
 received on the weekend there are no new tax

1438
01:20:55,640 --> 01:20:56,040
 dollars

1439
01:20:56,040 --> 01:20:58,290
 that are required to submit into this program.

1440
01:20:58,290 --> 01:21:00,460
 That was an important clarification that we

1441
01:21:00,460 --> 01:21:01,070
 received

1442
01:21:01,070 --> 01:21:03,320
 over the weekend that as of last week was not

1443
01:21:03,320 --> 01:21:05,860
 what we understood and what had been provided to

1444
01:21:05,860 --> 01:21:06,020
 us

1445
01:21:06,020 --> 01:21:08,820
 through the program. So the really good news is

1446
01:21:08,820 --> 01:21:11,200
 that at the end of the day through this program

1447
01:21:11,200 --> 01:21:13,460
 should the City of London be eligible it will

1448
01:21:13,460 --> 01:21:16,150
 take some pressure off of the development charge

1449
01:21:16,150 --> 01:21:19,130
 reserve funds because it would basically replace

1450
01:21:19,130 --> 01:21:21,510
 the dollars that would have otherwise been used

1451
01:21:21,510 --> 01:21:24,040
 for projects that are already within the study

1452
01:21:24,040 --> 01:21:26,760
 and offset it with provincial federal funding.

1453
01:21:26,760 --> 01:21:32,740
 Go ahead, Councillor Ferrell. Thank you for that.

1454
01:21:32,740 --> 01:21:35,510
 So with I guess with respect taking the

1455
01:21:35,510 --> 01:21:37,750
 pressure off of the development charge reserve

1456
01:21:37,750 --> 01:21:42,790
 funds that would mean that if let's say we did

1457
01:21:42,790 --> 01:21:43,180
 not

1458
01:21:43,180 --> 01:21:45,060
 follow through on this or depending on how the

1459
01:21:45,060 --> 01:21:48,840
 transfer payment agreement comes back we

1460
01:21:48,840 --> 01:21:49,560
 potentially

1461
01:21:49,560 --> 01:21:51,620
 if we still have that pressure on we may

1462
01:21:51,620 --> 01:21:55,490
 potentially in the future have to I guess look at

1463
01:21:55,490 --> 01:21:56,290
 the tax base

1464
01:21:56,290 --> 01:21:59,080
 to be able to replenish those those pressures so

1465
01:21:59,080 --> 01:22:01,610
 this is the way I kind of hear it is this is an

1466
01:22:01,610 --> 01:22:06,160
 an opportunity to mitigate that future pressure

1467
01:22:06,160 --> 01:22:10,370
 on the reserve funds.

1468
01:22:10,370 --> 01:22:12,440
 - Is that a statement or a question, Councillor?

1469
01:22:12,440 --> 01:22:14,480
 - A question.

1470
01:22:14,480 --> 01:22:16,550
 - So go ahead.

1471
01:22:16,550 --> 01:22:18,220
 - Yes, Councillor, that is correct.

1472
01:22:18,220 --> 01:22:20,470
 This is an opportunity based on the clar

1473
01:22:20,470 --> 01:22:20,890
ifications

1474
01:22:20,890 --> 01:22:23,010
 that we received over the weekend from the

1475
01:22:23,010 --> 01:22:23,910
 ministry

1476
01:22:23,910 --> 01:22:26,300
 where we would displace funding that otherwise

1477
01:22:26,300 --> 01:22:27,810
 would have been required

1478
01:22:27,810 --> 01:22:29,560
 through the development charge background study.

1479
01:22:29,560 --> 01:22:33,140
 So essentially where the risk occurs

1480
01:22:33,140 --> 01:22:36,100
 is depending on our projections

1481
01:22:36,100 --> 01:22:38,960
 of what the growth revenue would be over the next

1482
01:22:38,960 --> 01:22:39,640
 three years,

1483
01:22:39,640 --> 01:22:41,900
 but that is certainly something that we are

1484
01:22:41,900 --> 01:22:42,140
 trying

1485
01:22:42,140 --> 01:22:44,250
 to put as competitive an application forward

1486
01:22:44,250 --> 01:22:47,120
 and do the proper analysis to ensure what we put

1487
01:22:47,120 --> 01:22:47,660
 forward.

1488
01:22:47,660 --> 01:22:49,330
 We'll limit the risk to the city of London

1489
01:22:49,330 --> 01:22:52,910
 in whatever way possible.

1490
01:22:52,910 --> 01:22:54,110
 - Councilor Ferra.

1491
01:22:54,110 --> 01:22:55,110
 - Okay, thank you for that.

1492
01:22:55,110 --> 01:22:57,470
 So I would support this in principle as it is

1493
01:22:57,470 --> 01:22:58,540
 right now.

1494
01:22:58,540 --> 01:23:00,790
 I do wanna see, I guess when the report comes

1495
01:23:00,790 --> 01:23:01,010
 back

1496
01:23:01,010 --> 01:23:02,920
 to see all the details and the risks

1497
01:23:02,920 --> 01:23:06,180
 and just how that would reduce those pressures in

1498
01:23:06,180 --> 01:23:06,630
 the future.

1499
01:23:06,630 --> 01:23:09,860
 I do see that from Councilor Robbins questions

1500
01:23:09,860 --> 01:23:13,960
 that it will reduce the cost of new housing.

1501
01:23:13,960 --> 01:23:16,160
 But at the same time, I also would like to see it

1502
01:23:16,160 --> 01:23:18,770
 not have that or reduce that future pressure

1503
01:23:18,770 --> 01:23:20,260
 that we potentially could have

1504
01:23:20,260 --> 01:23:22,990
 on our development charges reserve.

1505
01:23:22,990 --> 01:23:25,720
 So I'll support this in principle at the moment.

1506
01:23:25,720 --> 01:23:29,330
 And then I'll look back for what the report comes

1507
01:23:29,330 --> 01:23:29,800
 back

1508
01:23:29,800 --> 01:23:33,950
 to make my final decision at that point.

1509
01:23:33,950 --> 01:23:35,240
 - Councilor Cuddy.

1510
01:23:35,240 --> 01:23:36,890
 - Thank you, Your Worship and through you.

1511
01:23:36,890 --> 01:23:39,670
 You know, I just want to repeat what Councillor

1512
01:23:39,670 --> 01:23:40,180
 Frank said,

1513
01:23:40,180 --> 01:23:43,580
 so succinctly, this application gets us in the

1514
01:23:43,580 --> 01:23:44,080
 game.

1515
01:23:44,080 --> 01:23:46,250
 Without this vote today, we have no skin in the

1516
01:23:46,250 --> 01:23:47,220
 game.

1517
01:23:47,220 --> 01:23:49,130
 So this should be a simple decision, respectfully

1518
01:23:49,130 --> 01:23:49,230
.

1519
01:23:49,130 --> 01:23:51,620
 This should be a simple decision by council.

1520
01:23:51,620 --> 01:23:54,100
 Get in the game, let's be players.

1521
01:23:54,100 --> 01:23:56,870
 And the information will come back to us later.

1522
01:23:56,870 --> 01:23:59,630
 So we have ample time to discuss it later in

1523
01:23:59,630 --> 01:23:59,940
 August.

1524
01:23:59,940 --> 01:24:04,760
 And this simply is our allowance to be a

1525
01:24:04,760 --> 01:24:04,970
 participant

1526
01:24:05,400 --> 01:24:10,930
 in an opportunity to be in a really good position

1527
01:24:10,930 --> 01:24:13,240
 for building in the future.

1528
01:24:13,240 --> 01:24:18,070
 So thank you and I'll be supporting it fully.

1529
01:24:18,070 --> 01:24:27,200
 - Other speakers, Councilor Trossal, go ahead.

1530
01:24:27,200 --> 01:24:29,880
 - First question to the chair.

1531
01:24:29,880 --> 01:24:32,710
 Is there some way we could see a more detailed

1532
01:24:32,710 --> 01:24:35,600
 application

1533
01:24:35,600 --> 01:24:38,460
 that has a more robust risk assessment

1534
01:24:38,460 --> 01:24:40,650
 before we approve this?

1535
01:24:40,650 --> 01:24:42,540
 In other words, instead of approving this today

1536
01:24:42,540 --> 01:24:43,920
 and then getting a memo,

1537
01:24:43,920 --> 01:24:46,890
 is there some way we could get this information

1538
01:24:46,890 --> 01:24:51,430
 back and reconvene later in the week?

1539
01:24:51,430 --> 01:24:54,720
 - So maybe you can comment on for this decision

1540
01:24:54,720 --> 01:24:57,840
 and then future decision point of what you'd have

1541
01:24:57,840 --> 01:24:58,050
 then.

1542
01:24:58,050 --> 01:25:00,790
 So what can you provide now and what's possible

1543
01:25:00,790 --> 01:25:02,970
 and what could you provide at the TPA portion,

1544
01:25:02,970 --> 01:25:05,170
 which is the point of which we actually make the

1545
01:25:05,170 --> 01:25:08,950
 decision?

1546
01:25:08,950 --> 01:25:09,950
 - Thank you, Chair.

1547
01:25:09,950 --> 01:25:13,460
 So given that it's 10 a.m. Friday morning

1548
01:25:13,460 --> 01:25:15,910
 that we have to have all this information

1549
01:25:15,910 --> 01:25:16,520
 compiled,

1550
01:25:16,520 --> 01:25:19,990
 we are concurrently working on trying to gather

1551
01:25:19,990 --> 01:25:22,460
 all the elements to submit the application.

1552
01:25:22,460 --> 01:25:24,890
 I do not suspect until we get that application

1553
01:25:24,890 --> 01:25:28,160
 in the door, 'cause it closes at 10 a.m.,

1554
01:25:28,160 --> 01:25:29,870
 that we will be in a position to be able

1555
01:25:29,870 --> 01:25:31,270
 to provide further details

1556
01:25:31,270 --> 01:25:35,160
 on what we're actually going to be providing,

1557
01:25:35,160 --> 01:25:39,210
 failing us working 24/7 literally until that time

1558
01:25:39,210 --> 01:25:39,490
.

1559
01:25:39,490 --> 01:25:42,280
 We are happy to provide a memo that will

1560
01:25:42,280 --> 01:25:42,870
 summarize

1561
01:25:42,870 --> 01:25:44,890
 on Friday afternoon, all of the details

1562
01:25:44,890 --> 01:25:46,240
 that we're submitting for the application,

1563
01:25:46,240 --> 01:25:49,780
 noting that until we get any response back

1564
01:25:49,780 --> 01:25:51,930
 from the province, we won't know what will

1565
01:25:51,930 --> 01:25:52,300
 actually

1566
01:25:52,300 --> 01:25:54,870
 be accepted and whether there's any funding that

1567
01:25:54,870 --> 01:25:56,290
 will be allocated to make the program

1568
01:25:56,290 --> 01:25:57,860
 viable for the city of London.

1569
01:25:57,860 --> 01:26:00,190
 So certainly as soon as we receive any

1570
01:26:00,190 --> 01:26:03,330
 information back from the province at that time,

1571
01:26:03,330 --> 01:26:03,990
 we intend

1572
01:26:03,990 --> 01:26:06,850
 to bring forward a fulsome report that would have

1573
01:26:06,850 --> 01:26:09,010
 -- and we would begin that work right

1574
01:26:09,010 --> 01:26:11,820
 after we submit on identifying what our

1575
01:26:11,820 --> 01:26:14,730
 application was, what was submitted, what was

1576
01:26:14,730 --> 01:26:15,760
 approved,

1577
01:26:15,760 --> 01:26:18,280
 and then ultimately what that TPA is with a fuls

1578
01:26:18,280 --> 01:26:20,510
ome assessment of what all those risks

1579
01:26:20,510 --> 01:26:23,500
 are and that will fully depend on what the

1580
01:26:23,500 --> 01:26:24,820
 province approves at the end of the

1581
01:26:24,820 --> 01:26:27,860
 day, the extent to which the risk will be for the

1582
01:26:27,860 --> 01:26:28,910
 City of London.

1583
01:26:28,910 --> 01:26:36,220
 Councillor Troso. Who actually is deciding what's

1584
01:26:36,220 --> 01:26:38,920
 applied for? Is that going to be

1585
01:26:38,920 --> 01:26:41,810
 driven by developers with applications? Is that

1586
01:26:41,810 --> 01:26:43,660
 going to be based on our

1587
01:26:43,660 --> 01:26:46,630
 assessment of what we'd like to see? Who is going

1588
01:26:46,630 --> 01:26:48,280
 to make that decision in

1589
01:26:48,280 --> 01:26:54,270
 terms of what's applied for? Go ahead. Through

1590
01:26:54,270 --> 01:26:56,760
 the chairs. So essentially we

1591
01:26:56,760 --> 01:27:00,580
 We have to pick projects that are already within

1592
01:27:00,580 --> 01:27:02,820
 our development charge background study.

1593
01:27:02,820 --> 01:27:07,200
 It is specific to identifying the projects that

1594
01:27:07,200 --> 01:27:11,300
 have a municipal contribution, that have

1595
01:27:11,300 --> 01:27:14,290
 the number of housing units that are enabled, as

1596
01:27:14,290 --> 01:27:16,380
 well as the very specific time.

1597
01:27:16,380 --> 01:27:20,430
 Projects have to begin no later than 2030 and

1598
01:27:20,430 --> 01:27:25,870
 need to be completed by the end date in 2035.

1599
01:27:25,870 --> 01:27:29,400
 So there are very narrow specific time frames for

1600
01:27:29,400 --> 01:27:31,740
 which we need to begin and end all of

1601
01:27:31,740 --> 01:27:34,350
 the infrastructure to be eligible for the costs.

1602
01:27:34,350 --> 01:27:36,320
 So that is the assessment.

1603
01:27:36,320 --> 01:27:38,440
 It is our background study that currently exists

1604
01:27:38,440 --> 01:27:40,750
 and is approved by council that is driving

1605
01:27:40,750 --> 01:27:42,980
 the assessment for what is going to be submitted

1606
01:27:42,980 --> 01:27:45,200
 as an application.

1607
01:27:45,200 --> 01:27:48,060
 Councillor Trossa.

1608
01:27:48,060 --> 01:27:52,020
 Can we direct the housing to any particular mix

1609
01:27:52,020 --> 01:27:54,850
 of owner occupancy rental?

1610
01:27:54,850 --> 01:27:58,890
 Can we direct the housing to any particular mix

1611
01:27:58,890 --> 01:28:01,770
 of low-income affordable?

1612
01:28:01,770 --> 01:28:04,630
 Can we leverage these funds, for example, to

1613
01:28:04,630 --> 01:28:06,530
 support some of the building efforts that

1614
01:28:06,530 --> 01:28:09,540
 we've heard about building deeply affordable

1615
01:28:09,540 --> 01:28:10,120
 housing?

1616
01:28:10,120 --> 01:28:15,680
 What control do we have over that at this point?

1617
01:28:15,680 --> 01:28:17,830
 Go ahead.

1618
01:28:17,830 --> 01:28:18,820
 Thank you.

1619
01:28:18,820 --> 01:28:19,810
 Through the chair.

1620
01:28:19,810 --> 01:28:22,290
 Specifically, the application is based on

1621
01:28:22,290 --> 01:28:25,100
 eligible projects that the City of London would

1622
01:28:25,100 --> 01:28:27,980
 be building as part of the development charge

1623
01:28:27,980 --> 01:28:29,230
 background study.

1624
01:28:29,230 --> 01:28:31,860
 it is specific to eligible projects

1625
01:28:31,860 --> 01:28:36,250
 and the DC reduction would be specific to 50%

1626
01:28:36,250 --> 01:28:39,180
 of what is in our development charge background

1627
01:28:39,180 --> 01:28:39,670
 study.

1628
01:28:39,670 --> 01:28:42,540
 There is no relationship to mix

1629
01:28:42,540 --> 01:28:44,500
 or any of those other items that the counselor

1630
01:28:44,500 --> 01:28:45,100
 has noted.

1631
01:28:45,100 --> 01:28:47,550
 Those are outside the scope of the project

1632
01:28:47,550 --> 01:28:49,800
 and would be subject to council's approval

1633
01:28:49,800 --> 01:28:52,670
 of what housing is built going forward.

1634
01:28:52,670 --> 01:28:55,020
 But certainly until we see the TPA,

1635
01:28:55,020 --> 01:28:57,720
 we believe those are completely out of scope.

1636
01:28:57,720 --> 01:28:58,520
 - Councilor Trussa.

1637
01:28:58,520 --> 01:29:01,900
 - Next question, the city's minimum contribution

1638
01:29:01,900 --> 01:29:03,880
 of 10%.

1639
01:29:03,880 --> 01:29:06,870
 Where would these funds come from,

1640
01:29:06,870 --> 01:29:11,160
 based at the level that we're requesting in this

1641
01:29:11,160 --> 01:29:11,840
 application?

1642
01:29:11,840 --> 01:29:19,650
 - Go ahead, Mr. Sens.

1643
01:29:19,650 --> 01:29:21,470
 Thank you very much for the question through you.

1644
01:29:21,470 --> 01:29:23,680
 So the municipal contribution,

1645
01:29:23,680 --> 01:29:24,980
 the minimum requirement of 10%

1646
01:29:24,980 --> 01:29:26,980
 would come from the ineligible component,

1647
01:29:26,980 --> 01:29:28,780
 which would include the non-growth share,

1648
01:29:28,780 --> 01:29:30,610
 which is already currently funded by non-DC

1649
01:29:30,610 --> 01:29:32,060
 findings sources.

1650
01:29:32,060 --> 01:29:33,820
 - And those funds are rate supported

1651
01:29:33,820 --> 01:29:37,260
 or tax-supported already in the budget?

1652
01:29:37,260 --> 01:29:38,410
 - That's correct.

1653
01:29:38,410 --> 01:29:39,790
 - Councilor Trossa.

1654
01:29:39,790 --> 01:29:42,330
 - Can I get a sense of what amount that would be

1655
01:29:42,330 --> 01:29:46,030
 based on the 10%, assuming that we just stick to

1656
01:29:46,030 --> 01:29:46,700
 10%,

1657
01:29:46,700 --> 01:29:50,450
 which is the minimum?

1658
01:29:50,450 --> 01:29:51,250
 - Go ahead.

1659
01:29:51,250 --> 01:29:52,850
 - Thank you, thank you, thank you, through you.

1660
01:29:52,850 --> 01:29:54,560
 So that depends on the project mix.

1661
01:29:54,560 --> 01:29:56,290
 So that's what we're doing for the work we're

1662
01:29:56,290 --> 01:29:56,590
 doing now.

1663
01:29:56,590 --> 01:29:59,100
 We're trying to identify the appropriate projects

1664
01:29:59,100 --> 01:29:59,200
.

1665
01:29:59,100 --> 01:30:01,230
 The maximize the benefit and the maximize our

1666
01:30:01,230 --> 01:30:01,770
 opportunity

1667
01:30:01,770 --> 01:30:03,640
 to be successful in this application.

1668
01:30:03,640 --> 01:30:05,320
 But depending on the mix again,

1669
01:30:05,320 --> 01:30:07,190
 some projects have a higher or lower growth

1670
01:30:07,190 --> 01:30:08,220
 number or share.

1671
01:30:08,220 --> 01:30:09,420
 And again, the municipal contribution,

1672
01:30:09,420 --> 01:30:10,450
 we are trying to maximize.

1673
01:30:10,450 --> 01:30:11,730
 We are trying to identify projects

1674
01:30:11,730 --> 01:30:13,320
 that are not 100% growth related,

1675
01:30:13,320 --> 01:30:15,230
 but do you have some element of a non-growth

1676
01:30:15,230 --> 01:30:16,830
 share?

1677
01:30:16,830 --> 01:30:17,660
 Councilor Trossa.

1678
01:30:17,660 --> 01:30:21,240
 - In section 3.0, the report talks about risks

1679
01:30:21,240 --> 01:30:22,720
 and other considerations.

1680
01:30:22,720 --> 01:30:28,170
 Again, where would the funds come to offset

1681
01:30:28,170 --> 01:30:30,290
 the costs of any of these risks,

1682
01:30:30,290 --> 01:30:32,780
 should these risks materialize?

1683
01:30:32,780 --> 01:30:36,470
 So these are concerning because while we may get

1684
01:30:36,470 --> 01:30:37,110
 money

1685
01:30:37,110 --> 01:30:40,400
 for capital funding, the growth and associated

1686
01:30:40,400 --> 01:30:41,630
 revenues

1687
01:30:41,630 --> 01:30:44,340
 may vary from the estimates.

1688
01:30:44,340 --> 01:30:46,390
 And I would be more comfortable if I had a sense

1689
01:30:46,390 --> 01:30:48,360
 of what that potential variance would be.

1690
01:30:48,360 --> 01:30:52,760
 And again, what the source of making up that gap

1691
01:30:52,760 --> 01:30:53,030
 would be.

1692
01:30:53,030 --> 01:30:56,130
 Would this be coming from the taxpayers?

1693
01:30:56,130 --> 01:30:58,370
 - Yeah, I think that's the question that I talked

1694
01:30:58,370 --> 01:30:58,660
 to you

1695
01:30:58,660 --> 01:31:00,440
 about, about where the risk is,

1696
01:31:00,440 --> 01:31:02,770
 sitting in the DC fund and how that would work

1697
01:31:02,770 --> 01:31:05,640
 if the estimates weren't exactly as we

1698
01:31:05,640 --> 01:31:06,240
 anticipated.

1699
01:31:06,240 --> 01:31:08,720
 Go ahead.

1700
01:31:08,720 --> 01:31:09,620
 - Thank you through the chair.

1701
01:31:09,620 --> 01:31:12,410
 So certainly until we know for sure,

1702
01:31:12,410 --> 01:31:15,670
 the TPA will identify what potential risks

1703
01:31:15,670 --> 01:31:17,390
 could actually be there based on the amount of

1704
01:31:17,390 --> 01:31:17,910
 funding

1705
01:31:17,910 --> 01:31:19,970
 and the projects that the city may or may not be

1706
01:31:19,970 --> 01:31:21,340
 approved on.

1707
01:31:21,340 --> 01:31:23,480
 Irrespective of that, right now what we are

1708
01:31:23,480 --> 01:31:23,780
 trying

1709
01:31:23,780 --> 01:31:26,810
 to identify is what the calculations are

1710
01:31:26,810 --> 01:31:28,650
 of how much we believe the growth revenue

1711
01:31:28,650 --> 01:31:30,440
 would be over a three year period

1712
01:31:30,440 --> 01:31:33,840
 to then try to match with the eligibility

1713
01:31:33,840 --> 01:31:36,070
 of the projects for which we would submit

1714
01:31:36,070 --> 01:31:37,870
 to so that they would offset.

1715
01:31:37,870 --> 01:31:40,230
 failing those not being equal,

1716
01:31:40,230 --> 01:31:43,660
 there could be a risk that the municipality

1717
01:31:43,660 --> 01:31:45,180
 may have money clawed back.

1718
01:31:45,180 --> 01:31:47,090
 That will be subject to the TPA and the

1719
01:31:47,090 --> 01:31:47,730
 negotiations

1720
01:31:47,730 --> 01:31:49,690
 that occur to bring something forward.

1721
01:31:49,690 --> 01:31:52,480
 And then further to what the mayor said earlier

1722
01:31:52,480 --> 01:31:56,110
 in the event that building permits go through the

1723
01:31:56,110 --> 01:31:56,360
 roof

1724
01:31:56,360 --> 01:31:58,790
 and are far in excess of our projections.

1725
01:31:58,790 --> 01:32:02,340
 And the lost revenue is greater than the funding

1726
01:32:02,340 --> 01:32:03,660
 that we are receiving.

1727
01:32:03,660 --> 01:32:05,660
 That is where we would need to go back

1728
01:32:05,660 --> 01:32:10,390
 look at potential other ways to go to the

1729
01:32:10,390 --> 01:32:12,390
 province or the federal government to see if

1730
01:32:12,390 --> 01:32:14,640
 there are other applications that we could submit

1731
01:32:14,640 --> 01:32:16,210
 for additional project funding.

1732
01:32:16,210 --> 01:32:18,210
 So that is a risk, the extent of which we will

1733
01:32:18,210 --> 01:32:20,000
 not know until we see what the approval

1734
01:32:20,000 --> 01:32:23,100
 will be for the City of London and also how the

1735
01:32:23,100 --> 01:32:25,930
 building permits materialize over the

1736
01:32:25,930 --> 01:32:28,180
 next three years, which will be a bit of a

1737
01:32:28,180 --> 01:32:30,630
 crystal ball will not know what the outcome

1738
01:32:30,630 --> 01:32:33,070
 is until the three-year period is over.

1739
01:32:33,070 --> 01:32:36,570
 - My last question to the mayor is,

1740
01:32:36,570 --> 01:32:38,370
 and then I'll make a very brief comment.

1741
01:32:38,370 --> 01:32:43,050
 If the goal is to decrease costs to buyers,

1742
01:32:43,050 --> 01:32:47,110
 how do we know the resulting savings

1743
01:32:47,110 --> 01:32:51,340
 will actually be passed on to buyers?

1744
01:32:51,340 --> 01:32:55,710
 - Go ahead.

1745
01:32:55,710 --> 01:32:56,610
 - Thank you for the chair.

1746
01:32:56,610 --> 01:32:59,130
 So certainly that is a question that we have

1747
01:32:59,130 --> 01:33:00,220
 outstanding.

1748
01:33:00,220 --> 01:33:02,510
 We know that the city of London, if they were

1749
01:33:02,510 --> 01:33:02,960
 successful,

1750
01:33:02,960 --> 01:33:04,960
 would reduce it by 50%.

1751
01:33:04,960 --> 01:33:07,790
 We anticipate that that cost would be passed

1752
01:33:07,790 --> 01:33:08,260
 along.

1753
01:33:08,260 --> 01:33:10,490
 However, there are other factors.

1754
01:33:10,490 --> 01:33:13,320
 And certainly we're not certain at this time

1755
01:33:13,320 --> 01:33:15,430
 if there's any legal mechanism

1756
01:33:15,430 --> 01:33:18,300
 to compel that for happening.

1757
01:33:18,300 --> 01:33:20,640
 Certainly we know that as a discussion

1758
01:33:20,640 --> 01:33:22,740
 that has happened in other municipalities

1759
01:33:22,740 --> 01:33:25,160
 and something that we have further questions

1760
01:33:25,160 --> 01:33:26,890
 but that would be subject to the building

1761
01:33:26,890 --> 01:33:27,450
 community

1762
01:33:27,450 --> 01:33:31,710
 to pass those on to their buying customers.

1763
01:33:31,710 --> 01:33:32,530
 - Those are chosen.

1764
01:33:32,530 --> 01:33:34,570
 - Okay, then I'll just make a brief comment.

1765
01:33:34,570 --> 01:33:36,620
 I can't support this at this point.

1766
01:33:36,620 --> 01:33:38,320
 And I hear what my colleagues are saying

1767
01:33:38,320 --> 01:33:42,330
 in terms of, you know, let's file the application

1768
01:33:42,330 --> 01:33:45,370
 and see what happens, but I really worry

1769
01:33:45,370 --> 01:33:48,300
 that we're gonna come back in August.

1770
01:33:48,300 --> 01:33:51,070
 And it's gonna be sort of like trying

1771
01:33:51,070 --> 01:33:53,130
 to push a big boulder up a hill

1772
01:33:53,130 --> 01:33:54,980
 that has already started rolling down the hill.

1773
01:33:54,980 --> 01:33:57,330
 I'm very worried about this.

1774
01:33:57,330 --> 01:33:58,830
 I don't think this has been,

1775
01:33:58,830 --> 01:34:01,600
 and this is not a reflection of any kind of step

1776
01:34:01,600 --> 01:34:01,820
 work.

1777
01:34:01,820 --> 01:34:04,510
 Again, I wanna make it clear.

1778
01:34:04,510 --> 01:34:06,040
 I am not criticizing the staff.

1779
01:34:06,040 --> 01:34:08,810
 you're working under very difficult and rushed

1780
01:34:08,810 --> 01:34:09,550
 conditions.

1781
01:34:09,550 --> 01:34:13,460
 I feel like we're working under very difficult

1782
01:34:13,460 --> 01:34:14,910
 and rushed conditions.

1783
01:34:14,910 --> 01:34:20,010
 There are too many risk uncertainty factors

1784
01:34:20,010 --> 01:34:21,530
 out there right now.

1785
01:34:21,530 --> 01:34:26,320
 I appreciate Councillor Stevenson showing me

1786
01:34:26,320 --> 01:34:28,620
 the Windsor application,

1787
01:34:28,620 --> 01:34:31,350
 which I think really answers a lot of the

1788
01:34:31,350 --> 01:34:32,160
 questions

1789
01:34:32,160 --> 01:34:33,590
 that I would have had.

1790
01:34:33,590 --> 01:34:36,870
 And they're working under the same timeframe

1791
01:34:36,870 --> 01:34:40,150
 that we are. So unless I hear something

1792
01:34:40,150 --> 01:34:44,030
 compelling in the next period of time, I am going

1793
01:34:44,030 --> 01:34:44,150
 to

1794
01:34:44,150 --> 01:34:48,750
 be voting no on this. And again, that's in all

1795
01:34:48,750 --> 01:34:51,640
 due respect to the probably large amount

1796
01:34:51,640 --> 01:34:54,960
 of staff work that's already been sunk into this.

1797
01:34:54,960 --> 01:34:57,680
 But these sunk costs add up and I don't

1798
01:34:57,680 --> 01:34:59,780
 want to keep going with this unless some of the

1799
01:34:59,780 --> 01:35:02,250
 types of questions that I've tried to

1800
01:35:02,250 --> 01:35:04,540
 set out and this has been very difficult just

1801
01:35:04,540 --> 01:35:08,750
 getting this file at the last minute and just

1802
01:35:08,750 --> 01:35:09,010
 trying

1803
01:35:09,010 --> 01:35:13,060
 to compose these questions. I do not want to

1804
01:35:13,060 --> 01:35:17,250
 create a situation where we're creating sort of a

1805
01:35:17,250 --> 01:35:21,230
 unfortunate situation for the next council or for

1806
01:35:21,230 --> 01:35:24,800
 this council during the election season or

1807
01:35:24,800 --> 01:35:28,000
 for the taxpayers later on, so I've not heard

1808
01:35:28,000 --> 01:35:34,810
 enough to make me satisfied that I can approve

1809
01:35:34,810 --> 01:35:39,150
 this. So right now I'm in no vote and I guess

1810
01:35:39,150 --> 01:35:41,060
 before I sit down I better collect my thoughts

1811
01:35:41,060 --> 01:35:44,100
 because that's it and I'm out of time. But thank

1812
01:35:44,100 --> 01:35:48,730
 you very much for hearing me out. I would very

1813
01:35:48,730 --> 01:35:51,510
 much like to be able to participate in a program

1814
01:35:51,510 --> 01:35:54,260
 like this, but I just don't like feeling rushed

1815
01:35:54,260 --> 01:35:58,800
 and pressure. Councillor your time's up. Other

1816
01:35:58,800 --> 01:36:02,070
 speakers? Okay, I'll put myself on the list.

1817
01:36:02,070 --> 01:36:05,190
 I'll turn the chair over to Councillor Ploza.

1818
01:36:05,190 --> 01:36:06,760
 Thank you. I have the chair recognizing Mayor

1819
01:36:06,760 --> 01:36:07,200
 Morgan.

1820
01:36:07,200 --> 01:36:11,020
 So thank you. So I guess I'll try to make a

1821
01:36:11,020 --> 01:36:12,990
 compelling case to Councillor Trozau.

1822
01:36:12,990 --> 01:36:15,770
 I don't think I've ever convinced you with that,

1823
01:36:15,770 --> 01:36:17,740
 but happy to give it a go this time.

1824
01:36:17,740 --> 01:36:21,680
 Point of order. Oh, sure. Sorry, not to be

1825
01:36:21,680 --> 01:36:25,910
 difficult, but we... I appreciate the Mayor

1826
01:36:25,910 --> 01:36:27,840
 recognizing that. Sure. I have the chair

1827
01:36:27,840 --> 01:36:29,750
 recognizing Councillor Stevenson for Point of

1828
01:36:29,750 --> 01:36:30,230
 Order.

1829
01:36:30,230 --> 01:36:33,980
 I'm just wondering because we said that we could

1830
01:36:33,980 --> 01:36:36,120
 only speak once at council and the mayor spoke at

1831
01:36:36,120 --> 01:36:42,690
 the beginning. So I think it was a

1832
01:36:42,690 --> 01:36:47,310
 response. I appreciate also where we're at at

1833
01:36:47,310 --> 01:36:50,160
 time. We also have an audit coming up as well.

1834
01:36:50,160 --> 01:36:51,850
 Mayor Morgan, if it's just a response, if you

1835
01:36:51,850 --> 01:36:54,850
 just have clarifying information as well.

1836
01:36:54,850 --> 01:36:57,220
 I'll say at the start, I was asked to present

1837
01:36:57,220 --> 01:36:59,040
 contacts from Ontario, big city mayors as part of

1838
01:36:59,040 --> 01:37:01,040
 the presentation. I'd like to actually debate the

1839
01:37:01,040 --> 01:37:03,000
 item. So I'll look to see how the chair wants to

1840
01:37:03,000 --> 01:37:03,480
 rule on that.

1841
01:37:03,480 --> 01:37:08,780
 I will review that you did speak on behalf of the

1842
01:37:08,780 --> 01:37:09,890
 BCM information you brought

1843
01:37:09,890 --> 01:37:11,770
 forth beginning and have actually not spoken your

1844
01:37:11,770 --> 01:37:13,460
 personal opinion to this

1845
01:37:13,460 --> 01:37:16,360
 matter convincing others or otherwise. Councillor

1846
01:37:16,360 --> 01:37:18,500
 Simaels, I will time though

1847
01:37:18,500 --> 01:37:22,500
 proceed. I would expect you to and cut me off if

1848
01:37:22,500 --> 01:37:25,490
 I get into five. So I'm happy to

1849
01:37:25,490 --> 01:37:30,610
 share some thoughts. What I want to say is we had

1850
01:37:30,610 --> 01:37:32,020
 a discussion on Friday. There

1851
01:37:32,020 --> 01:37:33,090
 are lots of municipalities who are doing

1852
01:37:33,090 --> 01:37:34,560
 different things. There are some

1853
01:37:34,560 --> 01:37:36,830
 municipalities who actually move forward with

1854
01:37:36,830 --> 01:37:38,460
 just complete delegated authority

1855
01:37:38,460 --> 01:37:40,290
 to their staff to say I don't know what the

1856
01:37:40,290 --> 01:37:41,800
 program is going to be we want to be

1857
01:37:41,800 --> 01:37:45,580
 part of it go apply for it let us know what that

1858
01:37:45,580 --> 01:37:46,970
 works out to be. There are

1859
01:37:46,970 --> 01:37:49,560
 others who actually approved envelopes of funding

1860
01:37:49,560 --> 01:37:50,660
 who on Thursday night

1861
01:37:50,660 --> 01:37:52,450
 realized that they'd be on the hook for a

1862
01:37:52,450 --> 01:37:54,370
 significant amount of property tax

1863
01:37:54,370 --> 01:37:56,230
 dollars to actually backfill the program when

1864
01:37:56,230 --> 01:37:57,520
 they realized that maybe they

1865
01:37:57,520 --> 01:38:02,040
 couldn't actually commit to using non-growth

1866
01:38:02,040 --> 01:38:03,060
 related funds for the

1867
01:38:03,060 --> 01:38:05,860
 project. There are a number who have to revisit

1868
01:38:05,860 --> 01:38:06,810
 their decision based on the new

1869
01:38:06,810 --> 01:38:09,610
 information on Saturday, and there are a number

1870
01:38:09,610 --> 01:38:11,610
 who decided to move forward not

1871
01:38:11,610 --> 01:38:13,560
 really having a problem with putting taxpayer

1872
01:38:13,560 --> 01:38:15,260
 funds beside trying to maximize

1873
01:38:15,260 --> 01:38:17,540
 their municipal contribution. So what I will say

1874
01:38:17,540 --> 01:38:18,930
 is every municipality is going

1875
01:38:18,930 --> 01:38:20,920
 to do this differently. Every municipality is

1876
01:38:20,920 --> 01:38:22,210
 going to have a different suite of

1877
01:38:22,210 --> 01:38:24,340
 projects in their DC background study to draw

1878
01:38:24,340 --> 01:38:26,300
 from. Some may have a very clear,

1879
01:38:26,300 --> 01:38:28,660
 very large project that they can say this kind of

1880
01:38:28,660 --> 01:38:30,030
 fits all the parameters of the

1881
01:38:30,030 --> 01:38:32,420
 the program, very easy, put one project forward,

1882
01:38:32,420 --> 01:38:34,640
 put it before council.

1883
01:38:34,640 --> 01:38:37,410
 A competitive application, a competitive

1884
01:38:37,410 --> 01:38:37,970
 application,

1885
01:38:37,970 --> 01:38:40,510
 is going to require a couple of things.

1886
01:38:40,510 --> 01:38:42,980
 One, what is the DC rate reduction?

1887
01:38:42,980 --> 01:38:44,900
 I think that's why you heard the treasurer say,

1888
01:38:44,900 --> 01:38:47,300
 we're gonna target 50%, we wanna be at the upper

1889
01:38:47,300 --> 01:38:47,490
 end

1890
01:38:47,490 --> 01:38:50,630
 of the minimum scale that they're looking for.

1891
01:38:50,630 --> 01:38:52,660
 Others may go above that, but we've gotta be

1892
01:38:52,660 --> 01:38:53,860
 also responsible.

1893
01:38:53,860 --> 01:38:55,290
 Two, what's the housing impact gonna be?

1894
01:38:55,290 --> 01:38:58,320
 So the projects that we have within our DC fund,

1895
01:38:58,320 --> 01:39:00,310
 we gotta look at which ones are going to unlock,

1896
01:39:00,310 --> 01:39:02,120
 what amounts of housing support, what amounts of

1897
01:39:02,120 --> 01:39:02,420
 housing?

1898
01:39:02,420 --> 01:39:04,810
 That's a measure of competitiveness.

1899
01:39:04,810 --> 01:39:06,890
 And of course, the municipal contribution,

1900
01:39:06,890 --> 01:39:09,200
 you know, 10% is the minimum,

1901
01:39:09,200 --> 01:39:11,460
 but we may be well above the 10%.

1902
01:39:11,460 --> 01:39:13,680
 If we submit a transportation project

1903
01:39:13,680 --> 01:39:17,130
 and I'm just making it up, that's $100 million

1904
01:39:17,130 --> 01:39:20,350
 and 40 million of it is already in our budget as

1905
01:39:20,350 --> 01:39:21,720
 non-DC,

1906
01:39:21,720 --> 01:39:25,840
 but rate and or taxpayer supported,

1907
01:39:25,840 --> 01:39:28,200
 that would be a 40% municipal contribution.

1908
01:39:28,200 --> 01:39:31,370
 So we want to also put projects in

1909
01:39:31,370 --> 01:39:34,070
 that have significant already budgeted amounts

1910
01:39:34,070 --> 01:39:36,330
 within the DC fund that kind of balance

1911
01:39:36,330 --> 01:39:38,080
 all of those things to make a competitive

1912
01:39:38,080 --> 01:39:39,370
 application.

1913
01:39:39,370 --> 01:39:41,640
 You know, we could try to do that

1914
01:39:41,640 --> 01:39:45,200
 before Friday as a municipal council,

1915
01:39:45,200 --> 01:39:46,780
 but we're gonna have no time for our staff

1916
01:39:46,780 --> 01:39:48,470
 to actually finalize the work and prepare the

1917
01:39:48,470 --> 01:39:49,260
 application.

1918
01:39:49,260 --> 01:39:52,000
 What will be very transparent to everybody

1919
01:39:52,000 --> 01:39:53,800
 is what we applied for.

1920
01:39:53,800 --> 01:39:55,650
 The staff are going to give that no doubt.

1921
01:39:55,650 --> 01:39:57,070
 I'm happy to have a press conference

1922
01:39:57,070 --> 01:39:58,770
 and say this is what we applied for.

1923
01:39:58,770 --> 01:40:01,730
 We don't know if we'll get it or not.

1924
01:40:01,730 --> 01:40:03,550
 But at the end of it, when the province has

1925
01:40:03,550 --> 01:40:04,170
 assessed it,

1926
01:40:04,170 --> 01:40:05,810
 and they've discussed with our staff,

1927
01:40:05,810 --> 01:40:08,680
 and we have a possible TPA to sign,

1928
01:40:08,680 --> 01:40:11,610
 all of these questions will be very clear to say,

1929
01:40:11,610 --> 01:40:13,060
 these are the applications,

1930
01:40:13,060 --> 01:40:14,970
 these are the values in the projects,

1931
01:40:14,970 --> 01:40:17,230
 the staff can do assessment of the risk related

1932
01:40:17,230 --> 01:40:17,630
 to that,

1933
01:40:17,630 --> 01:40:19,570
 we'll know the municipal contribution,

1934
01:40:19,570 --> 01:40:23,210
 we'll know the estimates on what we think

1935
01:40:23,210 --> 01:40:25,060
 housing is going to do over the next number of

1936
01:40:25,060 --> 01:40:25,450
 years,

1937
01:40:25,450 --> 01:40:26,500
 and then we can decide whether we wanna

1938
01:40:26,500 --> 01:40:27,000
 participate

1939
01:40:27,000 --> 01:40:27,840
 in the program or not,

1940
01:40:27,840 --> 01:40:30,390
 whether it's something that is valuable to

1941
01:40:30,390 --> 01:40:31,300
 municipality.

1942
01:40:31,300 --> 01:40:34,600
 You've heard several times our staff say

1943
01:40:34,600 --> 01:40:37,330
 there could be a benefit to taking pressure off

1944
01:40:37,330 --> 01:40:39,860
 at the DC fund by participating in this program.

1945
01:40:39,860 --> 01:40:41,350
 We're gonna know that very clearly

1946
01:40:41,350 --> 01:40:43,290
 when we know what the province is willing to

1947
01:40:43,290 --> 01:40:44,640
 approve

1948
01:40:44,640 --> 01:40:47,100
 out of our DC fund as projects,

1949
01:40:47,100 --> 01:40:48,910
 where the risk is in the future on this.

1950
01:40:48,910 --> 01:40:51,240
 And again, we'll know have some sense of the risk

1951
01:40:51,240 --> 01:40:51,340
,

1952
01:40:51,240 --> 01:40:54,770
 but not a complete sense of it by the end of it.

1953
01:40:54,770 --> 01:40:56,010
 How am I doing?

1954
01:40:58,130 --> 01:41:02,800
 is if we are under, let's say we are projecting,

1955
01:41:02,800 --> 01:41:04,890
 I don't know, 8,000 units over the next three

1956
01:41:04,890 --> 01:41:05,150
 years

1957
01:41:05,150 --> 01:41:08,270
 of growth, and we're under that, the province,

1958
01:41:08,270 --> 01:41:09,500
 and this is a question asked for probably,

1959
01:41:09,500 --> 01:41:12,130
 the province could say, you didn't collect enough

1960
01:41:12,130 --> 01:41:12,230
,

1961
01:41:12,140 --> 01:41:13,910
 we're gonna claw back money for one of the

1962
01:41:13,910 --> 01:41:14,730
 projects.

1963
01:41:14,730 --> 01:41:17,120
 That was challenged and said, if we start a

1964
01:41:17,120 --> 01:41:17,540
 project,

1965
01:41:17,540 --> 01:41:18,940
 are you really gonna claw it back?

1966
01:41:18,940 --> 01:41:21,050
 And they basically said, no, we're gonna deal

1967
01:41:21,050 --> 01:41:22,640
 with this on a case-by-case basis.

1968
01:41:22,640 --> 01:41:25,440
 It's a tool we have, but we actually want to

1969
01:41:25,440 --> 01:41:25,540
 build

1970
01:41:25,510 --> 01:41:27,580
 these projects out of the DC funds,

1971
01:41:27,580 --> 01:41:30,410
 And we're just looking for good estimates

1972
01:41:30,410 --> 01:41:31,490
 at the time of the application.

1973
01:41:31,490 --> 01:41:32,980
 And the province is gonna approve those estimates

1974
01:41:32,980 --> 01:41:33,080
.

1975
01:41:33,080 --> 01:41:35,400
 So if they're off, the province also looked at

1976
01:41:35,400 --> 01:41:36,030
 them too.

1977
01:41:36,030 --> 01:41:38,410
 If things go very well and we're way above our

1978
01:41:38,410 --> 01:41:38,820
 estimate,

1979
01:41:38,820 --> 01:41:42,050
 we do 10,000 units of housing or 11,000 over that

1980
01:41:42,050 --> 01:41:42,620
 period,

1981
01:41:42,620 --> 01:41:44,330
 that was my question to Minister Flack,

1982
01:41:44,330 --> 01:41:46,190
 as well as a question at the meeting.

1983
01:41:46,190 --> 01:41:48,070
 Can we put more projects in?

1984
01:41:48,070 --> 01:41:50,440
 Because if we don't, where the pressure lands

1985
01:41:50,440 --> 01:41:50,940
 there

1986
01:41:50,940 --> 01:41:56,220
 is the 10% gap or the gap within the DC fund

1987
01:41:56,220 --> 01:41:58,920
 that the program is not, it's not 10%,

1988
01:41:58,920 --> 01:42:01,520
 but it's the amount of foregone DC revenues

1989
01:42:01,520 --> 01:42:04,820
 based on the reduction in the DC fund.

1990
01:42:04,820 --> 01:42:06,410
 And how we deal with that as a municipality

1991
01:42:06,410 --> 01:42:09,040
 traditionally is through the GMIS process.

1992
01:42:09,040 --> 01:42:11,830
 We push projects back to basically balance the

1993
01:42:11,830 --> 01:42:12,140
 fund.

1994
01:42:12,140 --> 01:42:15,050
 So the risk is in the DC fund.

1995
01:42:15,050 --> 01:42:16,710
 There's an easy solution to that if we land in

1996
01:42:16,710 --> 01:42:17,650
 that spot.

1997
01:42:17,650 --> 01:42:19,550
 The province can let us do more projects.

1998
01:42:19,550 --> 01:42:21,860
 We do more projects out of the DC fund.

1999
01:42:21,860 --> 01:42:24,900
 And so I think that this is a great opportunity

2000
01:42:24,900 --> 01:42:26,720
 for us to move forward, participate in a program

2001
01:42:26,720 --> 01:42:28,790
 as Councillor Cuddy said, we can get the

2002
01:42:28,790 --> 01:42:29,780
 application in.

2003
01:42:29,780 --> 01:42:31,600
 Everyone can know what we applied for.

2004
01:42:31,600 --> 01:42:33,420
 Every Councillor can make a decision

2005
01:42:33,420 --> 01:42:34,920
 based on what we know at the end of the day.

2006
01:42:34,920 --> 01:42:38,410
 So I'm gonna support the proposal for us.

2007
01:42:38,410 --> 01:42:39,560
 - Thank you.

2008
01:42:39,560 --> 01:42:40,900
 I have no further hands up in chambers,

2009
01:42:40,900 --> 01:42:42,720
 but we'll return the chair to Mayor Morgan.

2010
01:42:42,720 --> 01:42:44,820
 - Okay, I think everybody in chambers has spoke,

2011
01:42:44,820 --> 01:42:50,440
 so look to anybody online who hasn't spoken.

2012
01:42:50,440 --> 01:42:51,270
 I see nobody.

2013
01:42:51,270 --> 01:42:54,930
 Okay, so what we have before us is the motion in

2014
01:42:54,930 --> 01:42:56,530
 E-Scribe

2015
01:42:56,530 --> 01:42:59,140
 that everybody should be able to see,

2016
01:42:59,140 --> 01:43:02,820
 It's the same direction as in the report,

2017
01:43:02,820 --> 01:43:05,650
 as well as the receipt of both our staff's

2018
01:43:05,650 --> 01:43:06,640
 presentation,

2019
01:43:06,640 --> 01:43:08,070
 which will be made public.

2020
01:43:08,070 --> 01:43:09,300
 It's attached to the record.

2021
01:43:09,300 --> 01:43:11,090
 We'll distribute to all the counselors

2022
01:43:11,090 --> 01:43:13,120
 and the correspondence that was sent in

2023
01:43:13,120 --> 01:43:15,710
 by a number of members of the public.

2024
01:43:15,710 --> 01:43:18,250
 That's before I moved by Councillor Layman,

2025
01:43:18,250 --> 01:43:20,700
 seconded by myself.

2026
01:43:20,700 --> 01:43:22,330
 Councillor Vameer, we're gonna are you looking to

2027
01:43:22,330 --> 01:43:22,790
 speak?

2028
01:43:22,790 --> 01:43:26,150
 Or are you just trying to vote?

2029
01:43:26,150 --> 01:43:27,470
 Just trying to vote, okay.

2030
01:43:27,470 --> 01:43:30,860
 All right, we're gonna open that for voting,

2031
01:43:30,860 --> 01:43:31,550
 sorry.

2032
01:43:31,550 --> 01:43:34,300
 Can you just separate A and B, please?

2033
01:43:34,300 --> 01:43:36,950
 - For sure, yeah, just give us a second to do

2034
01:43:36,950 --> 01:43:37,450
 that.

2035
01:43:37,450 --> 01:43:39,890
 So just for people, we're gonna separate A and B.

2036
01:43:39,890 --> 01:43:41,860
 A has received the information.

2037
01:43:41,860 --> 01:43:43,940
 B is the direction to apply.

2038
01:43:43,940 --> 01:43:46,020
 We'll attach the A being noted to A,

2039
01:43:46,020 --> 01:43:48,220
 which is the correspondence piece.

2040
01:43:48,220 --> 01:43:52,030
 So the first vote we'll do is A, receive the

2041
01:43:52,030 --> 01:43:52,340
 report

2042
01:43:52,340 --> 01:43:57,300
 and noting the presentations and submissions.

2043
01:43:57,300 --> 01:43:59,140
 And the second vote we'll do is B,

2044
01:43:59,140 --> 01:44:03,970
 which is the direction to submit an application.

2045
01:44:03,970 --> 01:44:11,620
 We just need a minute to break that up.

2046
01:44:11,620 --> 01:44:53,340
 - So close on audit for you, Councillor Palosa.

2047
01:44:53,340 --> 01:44:54,940
 Okay, we're opening A for voting,

2048
01:44:54,940 --> 01:44:56,850
 which is received the report and the app being

2049
01:44:56,850 --> 01:45:11,660
 noted.

2050
01:45:11,660 --> 01:45:16,440
 - Councillor Layman.

2051
01:45:16,440 --> 01:45:20,420
 - Councillor Layman votes yes.

2052
01:45:20,420 --> 01:45:25,270
 - Opposing the vote, motion carries 13 to zero.

2053
01:45:25,270 --> 01:45:26,530
 - Okay, and next we'll open B,

2054
01:45:26,530 --> 01:45:30,500
 which is the direction to our staff to apply

2055
01:45:30,500 --> 01:45:33,970
 for the program by the deadline this Friday.

2056
01:45:33,970 --> 01:45:36,060
 And an app being noted about the transfer payment

2057
01:45:36,060 --> 01:45:36,310
 agreement

2058
01:45:36,310 --> 01:45:38,370
 for funding would come back to council

2059
01:45:38,370 --> 01:45:40,000
 for its consideration if we were successful

2060
01:45:40,000 --> 01:46:11,070
 in the application, so that should be open.

2061
01:46:11,070 --> 01:46:12,580
 So to the Councillors who have been abstained,

2062
01:46:12,580 --> 01:46:14,360
 Councillor Stevenson and Councillor Trostoff.

2063
01:46:14,360 --> 01:46:16,270
 The only way you can abstain under the Miss Black

2064
01:46:16,270 --> 01:46:17,650
 is to declare conflict of interest.

2065
01:46:17,650 --> 01:46:19,440
 I'd ask you both what your conflict of interest

2066
01:46:19,440 --> 01:46:19,640
 is

2067
01:46:19,640 --> 01:46:22,550
 so that we can put it on the record for municipal

2068
01:46:22,550 --> 01:46:23,450
 council

2069
01:46:23,450 --> 01:46:24,700
 'cause that is how you abstain.

2070
01:46:24,700 --> 01:46:27,160
 So does other Councillor wanna declare

2071
01:46:27,160 --> 01:46:29,110
 the conflict of interest openly as is required

2072
01:46:29,110 --> 01:46:31,840
 under the act?

2073
01:46:31,840 --> 01:46:36,670
 - I do not have a conflict to declare.

2074
01:46:36,670 --> 01:46:38,290
 I would prefer to abstain

2075
01:46:38,290 --> 01:46:40,570
 because I think it's just more respectful

2076
01:46:40,570 --> 01:46:43,380
 of the position that my colleagues and staff have

2077
01:46:43,380 --> 01:46:44,170
 put forward.

2078
01:46:44,170 --> 01:46:46,320
 I'm not prepared to vote yes on this.

2079
01:46:46,320 --> 01:46:49,170
 If I'm forced to leave the room or vote no, I'll

2080
01:46:49,170 --> 01:46:49,460
 vote no.

2081
01:46:49,460 --> 01:46:52,510
 But I think abstain is a better reflection

2082
01:46:52,510 --> 01:46:54,870
 of my position right now.

2083
01:46:54,870 --> 01:46:59,290
 - So there is no mechanism to abstain

2084
01:46:59,290 --> 01:47:36,960
 if you don't declare a conflict when the click.

2085
01:47:36,960 --> 01:47:40,390
 So I want to be clear that if the counselors

2086
01:47:40,390 --> 01:47:42,360
 do not change their vote from abstain,

2087
01:47:42,360 --> 01:47:44,450
 it will be changed to a no vote in the record

2088
01:47:44,450 --> 01:47:47,380
 under 12.7 of the councilor by-law

2089
01:47:47,380 --> 01:47:49,600
 notwithstanding the provisions of 12.6 of this by

2090
01:47:49,600 --> 01:47:49,780
-law.

2091
01:47:49,780 --> 01:47:52,540
 Every member who has not recused from voting

2092
01:47:52,540 --> 01:47:54,240
 by reason of a declared conflict

2093
01:47:54,240 --> 01:47:56,570
 shall be deemed to be voting against the motion

2094
01:47:56,570 --> 01:47:59,670
 if they decide to, if they decline or abstain

2095
01:47:59,670 --> 01:48:00,800
 from voting.

2096
01:48:00,800 --> 01:48:04,420
 And that is a provision of the Municipal Act 2001

2097
01:48:04,420 --> 01:48:04,520
,

2098
01:48:04,420 --> 01:48:07,410
 section 246, subsection two.

2099
01:48:07,410 --> 01:48:10,550
 So if the Councillors don't want to declare,

2100
01:48:10,550 --> 01:48:12,460
 just realize that your vote will be changed

2101
01:48:12,460 --> 01:48:16,170
 to a no for the public record.

2102
01:48:16,170 --> 01:48:17,280
 I'll just seek one more time

2103
01:48:17,280 --> 01:48:20,600
 whether there's any declaration of conflict.

2104
01:48:20,600 --> 01:48:21,930
 - I have no conflict.

2105
01:48:21,930 --> 01:48:24,200
 So I'll be changing my vote to a yes,

2106
01:48:24,200 --> 01:48:27,750
 but I'd rather do that than step out.

2107
01:48:27,750 --> 01:48:29,470
 And I think I made my point earlier

2108
01:48:29,470 --> 01:48:33,060
 that there needs to be some mechanism

2109
01:48:33,060 --> 01:48:35,850
 beyond saying no when we're not presented

2110
01:48:35,850 --> 01:48:38,370
 with the information to make a decision.

2111
01:48:38,370 --> 01:48:40,540
 - Appreciate that, that you would like to do that

2112
01:48:40,540 --> 01:48:40,640
.

2113
01:48:40,540 --> 01:48:42,890
 I am bound to follow the rules of the Municipal

2114
01:48:42,890 --> 01:48:43,010
 Act

2115
01:48:43,010 --> 01:48:43,910
 and the procedure by-law.

2116
01:48:43,910 --> 01:48:47,550
 So I appreciate you changing your vote.

2117
01:48:47,550 --> 01:48:49,710
 We need Councillor Layman's vote as well.

2118
01:48:49,710 --> 01:48:52,870
 You can vote verbally and--

2119
01:48:52,870 --> 01:48:55,020
 - Councillor Lehman votes yes.

2120
01:48:55,020 --> 01:48:57,320
 - And Councillor Trossau, you are not changing

2121
01:48:57,320 --> 01:48:57,620
 your vote

2122
01:48:57,620 --> 01:48:59,740
 so it will be changed to a no as per.

2123
01:48:59,740 --> 01:49:01,080
 - May I speak?

2124
01:49:01,080 --> 01:49:02,350
 - Well, you don't get to debate again

2125
01:49:02,350 --> 01:49:04,660
 but I'm asking you, will you declare a conflict?

2126
01:49:04,660 --> 01:49:06,250
 - I have a question about my vote.

2127
01:49:06,250 --> 01:49:07,710
 - I'm asking if you're declaring a conflict

2128
01:49:07,710 --> 01:49:09,400
 that's the only thing you could declare at this

2129
01:49:09,400 --> 01:49:09,800
 point.

2130
01:49:09,800 --> 01:49:11,830
 - I'm not but I think that what Councillor

2131
01:49:11,830 --> 01:49:13,360
 Stevenson said

2132
01:49:13,360 --> 01:49:14,850
 is a good way to do this

2133
01:49:14,850 --> 01:49:17,080
 and I'm gonna do the same thing she just did.

2134
01:49:17,080 --> 01:49:19,060
 - So a vote yes but it's very clear

2135
01:49:19,060 --> 01:49:20,640
 what my position is on this.

2136
01:49:20,640 --> 01:49:22,590
 - So Councillor-- - Really feel pressure.

2137
01:49:22,590 --> 01:49:24,920
 - You were gonna put you as a yes.

2138
01:49:24,920 --> 01:49:26,800
 - Councillor Stevenson is a yes.

2139
01:49:26,800 --> 01:49:29,720
 Has everybody got their votes in?

2140
01:49:29,720 --> 01:49:32,450
 Okay, I'll let the clerk read the.

2141
01:49:32,450 --> 01:49:35,700
 - So if they say it's in there.

2142
01:49:35,700 --> 01:49:38,710
 (mumbles)

2143
01:49:38,710 --> 01:49:46,000
 - Closing the vote, motion carries 13 to zero.

2144
01:49:46,000 --> 01:49:49,970
 - Okay, we have no motions to which notice is

2145
01:49:49,970 --> 01:49:50,740
 given.

2146
01:49:50,740 --> 01:49:53,360
 No reports, no added reports, no deferred matters

2147
01:49:53,360 --> 01:49:53,460
.

2148
01:49:53,370 --> 01:49:56,400
 Can't do inquiries 'cause it's a special meeting.

2149
01:49:56,400 --> 01:49:58,760
 Are we can, but only on this matter?

2150
01:49:58,760 --> 01:50:01,000
 I don't see any emergent motions.

2151
01:50:01,000 --> 01:50:02,420
 There aren't any bylaws.

2152
01:50:02,420 --> 01:50:04,790
 We just have the confirmation bylaw

2153
01:50:04,790 --> 01:50:06,610
 that we do every meeting for council.

2154
01:50:06,610 --> 01:50:10,590
 So I'm gonna open, oh, I need to move her in a

2155
01:50:10,590 --> 01:50:10,820
 seconder.

2156
01:50:10,820 --> 01:50:11,870
 Councilor Cuddy's willing to move.

2157
01:50:11,870 --> 01:50:14,440
 I'll second them all.

2158
01:50:14,440 --> 01:50:17,540
 This is the confirmation by-law

2159
01:50:17,540 --> 01:50:20,820
 and we'll open first reading for voting.

2160
01:50:20,820 --> 01:50:30,690
 - Councilor Layman votes yes.

2161
01:50:30,690 --> 01:50:34,820
 - Councilor Joceau.

2162
01:50:34,820 --> 01:50:36,920
 - Just the confirmation by-law for the meeting

2163
01:50:36,920 --> 01:50:40,350
 that we do every meeting.

2164
01:50:40,350 --> 01:50:41,510
 - Yes, one question.

2165
01:50:41,510 --> 01:50:44,610
 - No, you can debate at second reading,

2166
01:50:44,610 --> 01:50:46,800
 but you can't ask a question of first reading,

2167
01:50:46,800 --> 01:50:48,290
 but it's not a question, it's debate.

2168
01:50:48,290 --> 01:50:55,260
 So first reading is open.

2169
01:50:55,260 --> 01:50:57,310
 - Two votes yes.

2170
01:50:57,310 --> 01:50:58,960
 - Closing the vote, motion carries, searching to

2171
01:50:58,960 --> 01:51:01,760
 zero.

2172
01:51:01,760 --> 01:51:03,910
 - Okay, second reading, same over in a second,

2173
01:51:03,910 --> 01:51:06,210
 or is there any discussion on second reading?

2174
01:51:06,210 --> 01:51:08,180
 Go ahead, Councillor Stevenson.

2175
01:51:08,180 --> 01:51:09,920
 - Thank you, I'm just wondering if there's any

2176
01:51:09,920 --> 01:51:10,460
 concern

2177
01:51:10,460 --> 01:51:13,620
 about not having the information to know whether

2178
01:51:13,620 --> 01:51:15,770
 I have a conflict given that I don't know the

2179
01:51:15,770 --> 01:53:52,330
 list of projects.

2180
01:53:52,330 --> 01:53:57,280
 - So first off, the clerk wants me to say,

2181
01:53:57,280 --> 01:53:59,230
 we don't actually get to debate the confirming by

2182
01:53:59,230 --> 01:53:59,440
 a lot.

2183
01:53:59,440 --> 01:54:00,910
 You can make comments, too, but you can't debate

2184
01:54:00,910 --> 01:54:01,010
 it,

2185
01:54:01,000 --> 01:54:04,100
 so I'm gonna allow that.

2186
01:54:04,100 --> 01:54:08,590
 The question is related to, so I will say clearly

2187
01:54:08,590 --> 01:54:08,690
,

2188
01:54:08,590 --> 01:54:10,480
 I can give advice, neither can the clerks

2189
01:54:10,480 --> 01:54:12,470
 on someone's conflict.

2190
01:54:12,470 --> 01:54:13,760
 The piece of information I can give you

2191
01:54:13,760 --> 01:54:17,270
 is based on previous decisions on the DC

2192
01:54:17,270 --> 01:54:19,260
 background study

2193
01:54:19,260 --> 01:54:22,800
 or any works on GMIS, all of the projects

2194
01:54:22,800 --> 01:54:25,400
 that we're contemplating here are ones

2195
01:54:25,400 --> 01:54:28,760
 that are contained within that envelope.

2196
01:54:28,760 --> 01:54:35,350
 So if someone's declared on previous things

2197
01:54:35,350 --> 01:54:38,260
 within the GMIS, then maybe they would have a

2198
01:54:38,260 --> 01:54:38,680
 conflict,

2199
01:54:38,680 --> 01:54:41,340
 but I can't answer the question about if you do,

2200
01:54:41,340 --> 01:54:43,870
 because no, we don't know what the projects are.

2201
01:54:43,870 --> 01:54:45,030
 And until you know what the projects are,

2202
01:54:45,030 --> 01:54:46,510
 you couldn't seek advice.

2203
01:54:46,510 --> 01:54:48,850
 So I can't answer your question.

2204
01:54:48,850 --> 01:54:50,810
 I'm not sure anybody here can

2205
01:54:50,810 --> 01:54:56,180
 on that particular piece, Councilor.

2206
01:54:56,180 --> 01:55:00,090
 Other comments on the confirming bylaw?

2207
01:55:00,090 --> 01:55:04,270
 Councilor Trossa.

2208
01:55:04,270 --> 01:55:07,070
 - This puts me in a very, very difficult position

2209
01:55:07,070 --> 01:55:07,170
.

2210
01:55:07,070 --> 01:55:09,830
 And I think I really wanna go out of my way

2211
01:55:09,830 --> 01:55:12,290
 not to have a conflict.

2212
01:55:12,290 --> 01:55:13,170
 This could be at Kings.

2213
01:55:13,170 --> 01:55:16,060
 I mean, I don't know what's on that.

2214
01:55:16,060 --> 01:55:18,750
 Is there a list that we could look at right now

2215
01:55:18,750 --> 01:55:22,000
 to see if we're within the range of any of the

2216
01:55:22,000 --> 01:55:29,680
 projects?

2217
01:55:29,680 --> 01:55:31,980
 - I don't have a list of the entire DC background

2218
01:55:31,980 --> 01:55:32,640
 study

2219
01:55:32,640 --> 01:55:35,460
 in front of us right now.

2220
01:55:35,460 --> 01:55:40,580
 We also don't know which projects would be

2221
01:55:40,580 --> 01:55:41,800
 submitted.

2222
01:55:41,800 --> 01:55:46,370
 So again, I can't give you advice on a conflict.

2223
01:55:46,370 --> 01:55:47,840
 I can't even tell you what I would do

2224
01:55:47,840 --> 01:55:48,960
 because I would be giving advice.

2225
01:55:48,960 --> 01:55:54,280
 But the answer is don't have a list

2226
01:55:54,280 --> 01:55:56,640
 of all of the DC background projects here.

2227
01:55:56,640 --> 01:55:59,370
 Even if we did, you wouldn't be able to determine

2228
01:55:59,370 --> 01:56:02,030
 which ones staff are making the decision to apply

2229
01:56:02,030 --> 01:56:02,250
 for.

2230
01:56:02,250 --> 01:56:05,020
 So you're not actually making the decision to

2231
01:56:05,020 --> 01:56:05,400
 apply

2232
01:56:05,400 --> 01:56:07,660
 for that project staff for doing that

2233
01:56:07,660 --> 01:56:10,890
 under the motion that we put here today.

2234
01:56:10,890 --> 01:56:13,350
 So that's the best I can give you, Councilor,

2235
01:56:13,350 --> 01:56:18,640
 I'm given the circumstance.

2236
01:56:18,640 --> 01:56:26,220
 Okay, we're gonna open that for voting.

2237
01:56:26,220 --> 01:56:56,110
 - Councilor Layman votes yes.

2238
01:56:56,110 --> 01:56:59,120
 - Okay, Councilor Trossai, you voted to abstain.

2239
01:56:59,120 --> 01:57:02,740
 I have to ask if you can declare your conflict

2240
01:57:02,740 --> 01:57:08,920
 for the abstention.

2241
01:57:08,920 --> 01:57:10,880
 - Well, I don't have enough information

2242
01:57:10,880 --> 01:57:12,510
 to affirmatively declare it,

2243
01:57:12,510 --> 01:57:14,090
 but I don't have enough information to say

2244
01:57:14,090 --> 01:57:15,040
 I don't have one.

2245
01:57:15,040 --> 01:57:18,910
 So I think I have to, under those circumstances,

2246
01:57:18,910 --> 01:57:22,810
 declare a potential conflict based on information

2247
01:57:22,810 --> 01:57:23,830
 that I don't have.

2248
01:57:23,830 --> 01:57:27,750
 Therefore, I think my abstention is in order.

2249
01:57:27,750 --> 01:57:29,850
 - Okay, Councillor, that's fine.

2250
01:57:29,850 --> 01:57:32,860
 You can declare a conflict in whatever way you'd

2251
01:57:32,860 --> 01:57:33,220
 like.

2252
01:57:33,220 --> 01:57:35,680
 You've got to, actually, I've just, as a courtesy

2253
01:57:35,680 --> 01:57:35,780
,

2254
01:57:35,680 --> 01:57:37,950
 remind you you've got to fill out paperwork

2255
01:57:37,950 --> 01:57:39,500
 as required on the thing that's blacked on it.

2256
01:57:39,500 --> 01:57:41,370
 So I encourage you to do that.

2257
01:57:41,370 --> 01:57:43,360
 - I'll do that with pleasure, thank you.

2258
01:57:43,360 --> 01:57:44,230
 - Thanks.

2259
01:57:44,230 --> 01:57:46,710
 - Closing the vote, motion carries 11 to zero,

2260
01:57:46,710 --> 01:57:49,470
 noting Councillor Palosa's absent and there's one

2261
01:57:49,470 --> 01:57:51,390
 abstain.

2262
01:57:51,390 --> 01:57:54,280
 - Okay, and third and final reading on this,

2263
01:57:54,280 --> 01:57:56,730
 we'll open that for voting.

2264
01:57:56,730 --> 01:58:08,970
 - Councillor Layman votes, yes.

2265
01:58:08,970 --> 01:58:17,650
 - Councillor ramen, Councillor Trossa.

2266
01:58:17,650 --> 01:58:20,370
 Closing the vote, motion carries 11-0, noting one

2267
01:58:20,370 --> 01:58:24,330
 abstain.

2268
01:58:24,330 --> 01:58:27,380
 - Okay, that concludes the confirmation by-law.

2269
01:58:27,380 --> 01:58:29,590
 I only have a motion to adjourn last left,

2270
01:58:29,590 --> 01:58:33,320
 so I got Councillor Cutty, seconded by myself.

2271
01:58:33,320 --> 01:58:35,140
 We could do that by hand,

2272
01:58:35,140 --> 01:58:36,580
 and I'll just look to the screen, all those in

2273
01:58:36,580 --> 01:58:38,140
 favor.

2274
01:58:38,140 --> 01:58:38,910
 - Motion carries.