1 00:20:10,660 --> 00:20:11,950 - Good afternoon, everyone. 2 00:20:11,950 --> 00:20:13,830 Call the seventh meeting of the infrastructure 3 00:20:13,830 --> 00:20:16,390 and corporate services committee to order. 4 00:20:16,390 --> 00:20:17,810 Please check the city website for additional 5 00:20:17,810 --> 00:20:18,080 meeting 6 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:18,910 information. 7 00:20:18,910 --> 00:20:20,460 The city of London is situated on the traditional 8 00:20:20,460 --> 00:20:20,680 lands 9 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:22,850 of the Anishinaabak, the Haudenosaunee, 10 00:20:22,850 --> 00:20:25,010 Linawampak, and Al-Adwandran. 11 00:20:25,010 --> 00:20:26,770 We honor and respect the history, languages, and 12 00:20:26,770 --> 00:20:27,010 culture, 13 00:20:27,010 --> 00:20:28,650 the diverse indigenous people who call this 14 00:20:28,650 --> 00:20:29,900 territory home. 15 00:20:29,900 --> 00:20:31,340 The city of London is currently home to many 16 00:20:31,340 --> 00:20:32,000 first nations, 17 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:33,740 Métis, and Inuit today. 18 00:20:33,740 --> 00:20:35,530 As representatives of the people of the city of 19 00:20:35,530 --> 00:20:35,870 London, 20 00:20:35,870 --> 00:20:37,670 we are grateful to have the opportunity to work 21 00:20:37,670 --> 00:20:39,970 and live in this territory. 22 00:20:39,970 --> 00:20:42,080 Currently, in terms of committee members, we have 23 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:42,590 myself, 24 00:20:42,590 --> 00:20:45,460 Councillor Frank, Councillor Stevenson, 25 00:20:45,460 --> 00:20:50,290 Councillor Ploza online, okay, 26 00:20:50,290 --> 00:20:52,370 and we're waiting on Councillor Ben Mirbergen. 27 00:20:52,370 --> 00:20:53,240 In terms of visiting Councillors, 28 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,040 we have Councillor Traszok, Councillor Ferrera, 29 00:20:56,040 --> 00:21:00,080 Councillor Pribble, and Councillor Hiller. 30 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:01,740 Okay. 31 00:21:01,740 --> 00:21:03,300 The City of London is committed to making every 32 00:21:03,300 --> 00:21:03,650 effort 33 00:21:03,650 --> 00:21:05,590 to provide alternate formats and communication 34 00:21:05,590 --> 00:21:06,020 supports 35 00:21:06,020 --> 00:21:07,290 for meetings upon request. 36 00:21:07,290 --> 00:21:09,070 To make a request specific to this meeting, 37 00:21:09,070 --> 00:21:14,200 please contact ICSC@london.ca or 519-661-2489, 38 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:18,040 extension 2425. 39 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:19,630 Looking forward disclosures of community or 40 00:21:19,630 --> 00:21:21,760 interests. 41 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,710 Okay, seeing none online. 42 00:21:24,710 --> 00:21:26,330 We'll move into consent items. 43 00:21:26,330 --> 00:21:29,610 Do you have requests for 2.8 and 2.9 to be pulled 44 00:21:29,610 --> 00:21:29,980 ? 45 00:21:29,980 --> 00:21:32,340 We'll deal with those in deferred matters. 46 00:21:32,340 --> 00:21:37,250 So looking for a motion to move 2.1 to 2.7.10, 47 00:21:40,150 --> 00:21:43,690 - 2.11, 2.12, unless there are any other poll 48 00:21:43,690 --> 00:21:45,870 requests, 49 00:21:45,870 --> 00:21:46,690 not seeing them. 50 00:21:46,690 --> 00:21:48,970 So I would look for those items I just mentioned 51 00:21:48,970 --> 00:21:51,040 to be moved for a mover. 52 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,170 Councillor Frank, I'll second. 53 00:21:54,170 --> 00:21:55,000 Okay. 54 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:55,810 Those are on the floor. 55 00:21:55,810 --> 00:21:56,620 And Councillor McMillan, 56 00:21:56,620 --> 00:21:59,640 I just joined us. 57 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,420 Any discussion on those items? 58 00:22:02,420 --> 00:22:05,350 Looking for committee members first, 59 00:22:05,350 --> 00:22:08,340 Councillor Frank, go ahead. 60 00:22:08,340 --> 00:22:09,180 - Thank you. 61 00:22:09,180 --> 00:22:11,490 Just on item 2.2, in regards to the recycling 62 00:22:11,490 --> 00:22:11,930 services, 63 00:22:11,930 --> 00:22:14,080 I want to thank staff for coming back with this 64 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:15,440 so quickly. 65 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:16,670 As you can see from one letter, 66 00:22:16,670 --> 00:22:18,660 And there'll be a couple of others coming forward 67 00:22:18,660 --> 00:22:19,860 that there's a lot of small businesses 68 00:22:19,860 --> 00:22:22,120 who are impacted by this and I think they'll 69 00:22:22,120 --> 00:22:25,850 appreciate some other options as we've outlined. 70 00:22:25,850 --> 00:22:27,600 And I just was wondering through the chair to 71 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:29,540 staff if we've heard any additional feedback 72 00:22:29,540 --> 00:22:32,270 I know in the report there was the letter from 73 00:22:32,270 --> 00:22:34,890 staff that had gone to the province and 74 00:22:34,890 --> 00:22:37,160 their response essentially was that we're allowed 75 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:38,670 to go and pick it up ourselves if we 76 00:22:38,670 --> 00:22:39,660 felt like it. 77 00:22:39,660 --> 00:22:41,340 I'm just wondering if we had heard any other 78 00:22:41,340 --> 00:22:43,160 feedback at this point from the province in 79 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,100 in regards to allowing non-eligible sources 80 00:22:46,100 --> 00:22:51,250 to participate in the same recycling system. 81 00:22:51,250 --> 00:22:52,630 - Believe Miss Chambers, that's you. 82 00:22:52,630 --> 00:23:00,270 Go ahead when you're ready. 83 00:23:00,270 --> 00:23:01,530 - Thank you and through the chair. 84 00:23:01,530 --> 00:23:03,550 I was just trying to find the letter 85 00:23:03,550 --> 00:23:04,570 that we received in the province. 86 00:23:04,570 --> 00:23:07,480 It was dated March 13th, 2026, 87 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,790 and we've received no further information since 88 00:23:09,790 --> 00:23:10,180 then 89 00:23:10,180 --> 00:23:13,570 to suggest other programs would emerge. 90 00:23:13,570 --> 00:23:14,990 - Followed, Councillor. 91 00:23:14,990 --> 00:23:15,830 - Thank you, yes. 92 00:23:15,830 --> 00:23:18,210 Then I suppose we'll continue to do our best to 93 00:23:18,210 --> 00:23:18,930 advocate. 94 00:23:18,930 --> 00:23:21,970 I think that being able to have the non-eligible 95 00:23:21,970 --> 00:23:22,430 sources 96 00:23:22,430 --> 00:23:24,180 picked up with the rest of the residential curbs 97 00:23:24,180 --> 00:23:25,680 ide makes the most efficient sense. 98 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,550 But again, appreciate the work staff are doing to 99 00:23:28,550 --> 00:23:30,140 try and bridge that gap. 100 00:23:30,140 --> 00:23:33,890 Thank you, Councillor Stevenson. Go ahead. 101 00:23:33,890 --> 00:23:39,120 Thank you. I had a question on 2.1 and it was 102 00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:43,290 really just a general question. I remember 103 00:23:43,290 --> 00:23:43,780 earlier 104 00:23:43,780 --> 00:23:47,690 in the term receiving a report that showed the 105 00:23:47,690 --> 00:23:51,350 over budget amounts on by project and I don't 106 00:23:51,350 --> 00:23:53,090 - I don't recall seeing that recently. 107 00:23:53,090 --> 00:23:55,710 I just wondered when the last time council 108 00:23:55,710 --> 00:23:58,120 would have been advised on over budget projects 109 00:23:58,120 --> 00:24:01,810 and/or when we might see that. 110 00:24:01,810 --> 00:24:03,440 - Go ahead, Mr. Chair. 111 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:04,280 - Thank you, Mr. Chair. 112 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,110 If there's a request for additional funding, 113 00:24:06,110 --> 00:24:07,620 it would be included in this report. 114 00:24:07,620 --> 00:24:09,850 So last year, we did have a couple of projects 115 00:24:09,850 --> 00:24:11,520 that required additional funding approval 116 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:12,910 and they would have been included 117 00:24:12,910 --> 00:24:14,430 as part of this reporting out. 118 00:24:14,430 --> 00:24:16,320 And the remainder of the reporting on our capital 119 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:16,810 projects 120 00:24:16,810 --> 00:24:18,370 with respect to their overall budgets 121 00:24:18,370 --> 00:24:20,280 is included in the mid-year and end-of-year 122 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:20,600 capital 123 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:24,130 monitoring, one of which is before you today. 124 00:24:24,130 --> 00:24:25,130 - Hello, Councilor. 125 00:24:25,130 --> 00:24:26,160 - Yeah, thank you for that. 126 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,940 And so do you recall what report I'm thinking of 127 00:24:28,940 --> 00:24:31,240 where we had the projects listed 128 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,160 and several of them said that they were over 129 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:34,220 budget one by one 130 00:24:34,220 --> 00:24:36,140 just so that we'd be able to track what was 131 00:24:36,140 --> 00:24:36,680 originally 132 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,960 budgeted and what the total cost was? 133 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:42,560 - Go ahead, Ms. Chair. 134 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:43,640 - Thank you, Mr. Chair. 135 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,750 So if we were requesting additional funds, 136 00:24:45,750 --> 00:24:47,430 if individual reports for each project 137 00:24:47,430 --> 00:24:48,910 would have accompanied the report today 138 00:24:48,910 --> 00:24:51,790 because we are not, there are no reports to that 139 00:24:51,790 --> 00:24:52,500 matter. 140 00:24:52,500 --> 00:24:54,850 With respect to the status of all of our projects 141 00:24:54,850 --> 00:24:54,950 , 142 00:24:54,850 --> 00:24:56,650 that would be captured in the mid-year capital 143 00:24:56,650 --> 00:24:57,340 monitoring. 144 00:24:57,340 --> 00:24:59,700 We have not prepared a separate report listing 145 00:24:59,700 --> 00:25:00,410 all projects 146 00:25:00,410 --> 00:25:01,930 and their financial status. 147 00:25:01,930 --> 00:25:04,320 So we would only report out if we require money 148 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,480 beyond our contingency within our approved budget 149 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:06,580 . 150 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,430 And we would have made that request today. 151 00:25:08,430 --> 00:25:09,790 I think we had two or three last year 152 00:25:09,790 --> 00:25:11,410 that required a small additional amount of 153 00:25:11,410 --> 00:25:11,780 funding 154 00:25:11,780 --> 00:25:13,180 a couple of the year before. 155 00:25:13,180 --> 00:25:14,980 At this time, we have a couple we're monitoring, 156 00:25:14,980 --> 00:25:17,170 but we are not asking for any additional funding 157 00:25:17,170 --> 00:25:20,600 beyond what has been previously approved. 158 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,580 - Okay, thank you for that. 159 00:25:22,580 --> 00:25:26,160 On 2.2, can you just remind me? 160 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,520 I thought we saved quite a bit of money 161 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,430 with the change in the blue box recycling. 162 00:25:31,430 --> 00:25:34,020 And I just wondered, is there an annual savings 163 00:25:34,020 --> 00:25:36,860 with the province taking it over? 164 00:25:36,860 --> 00:25:38,690 - Go ahead, Mr. Chairman. 165 00:25:38,690 --> 00:25:40,490 - Thank you and through the chair. 166 00:25:40,490 --> 00:25:43,870 As of mid-July, 2023, we've saved approximately 167 00:25:43,870 --> 00:25:45,660 three to four million dollars per year. 168 00:25:45,660 --> 00:25:47,190 It kind of depends on how many recyclables 169 00:25:47,190 --> 00:25:49,080 we have going forward. 170 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,050 That money though, given the timing, 171 00:25:51,050 --> 00:25:53,010 our green bin program rolled out January 1st, 172 00:25:53,010 --> 00:25:54,190 2024 173 00:25:54,190 --> 00:25:56,370 at about $5 million a year. 174 00:25:56,370 --> 00:25:58,870 So anything offset for recycling, 175 00:25:58,870 --> 00:26:01,030 we basically put towards green bin. 176 00:26:01,030 --> 00:26:04,030 So we don't have additional savings at this time. 177 00:26:04,030 --> 00:26:05,070 Budget now reflects. 178 00:26:05,070 --> 00:26:08,010 It's all been rectified there. 179 00:26:08,010 --> 00:26:09,320 - Follow up, Councillor. 180 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:10,150 - Thank you. 181 00:26:10,150 --> 00:26:12,280 Were those unexpected costs for the green bin 182 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,560 or did we reduce those and then end up with a 183 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:17,480 surplus? 184 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,040 - Go ahead, Mr. Amers. 185 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:20,290 - Thank you and to the Chair. 186 00:26:20,290 --> 00:26:21,620 The $5 million is just the cost 187 00:26:21,620 --> 00:26:24,620 to run the green bin program annually. 188 00:26:24,620 --> 00:26:25,590 There's no additional cost. 189 00:26:25,590 --> 00:26:28,690 That's just the cost it is to run it. 190 00:26:28,690 --> 00:26:31,890 I guess the point I'm getting to is that when it 191 00:26:31,890 --> 00:26:34,830 comes to just recycling, we saved three 192 00:26:34,830 --> 00:26:36,420 to four million dollars a year. 193 00:26:36,420 --> 00:26:39,030 We'd already budgeted five million dollars a year 194 00:26:39,030 --> 00:26:40,160 for the green bin. 195 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,720 So I just wondered, was there any consideration 196 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,120 of using the three to four million in savings 197 00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:47,450 to then provide service to the businesses and the 198 00:26:47,450 --> 00:26:49,200 ones that were going to be impacted 199 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,110 here? 200 00:26:51,110 --> 00:26:52,850 Go ahead, Mr. Chair. 201 00:26:52,850 --> 00:26:54,090 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 202 00:26:54,090 --> 00:26:56,060 The funding for the green bin and the blue bin 203 00:26:56,060 --> 00:26:58,040 savings were, sorry, the funding for the 204 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,770 The blue bin reduction when the province took 205 00:27:00,770 --> 00:27:03,420 over that program was given up in the budget 206 00:27:03,420 --> 00:27:04,700 at that time. 207 00:27:04,700 --> 00:27:06,980 We had not at that point identified the 208 00:27:06,980 --> 00:27:09,940 restriction for the non-eligible sources as that 209 00:27:09,940 --> 00:27:10,360 was actually 210 00:27:10,360 --> 00:27:12,680 only announced later last year. 211 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,630 We did as part of multi-year budget last year 212 00:27:15,630 --> 00:27:18,310 give up the remaining funding for the non- 213 00:27:18,310 --> 00:27:18,660 eligible 214 00:27:18,660 --> 00:27:19,940 source blue bin program. 215 00:27:19,940 --> 00:27:22,090 We had previously managed as it would have been 216 00:27:22,090 --> 00:27:24,120 insufficient for a citywide program which 217 00:27:24,120 --> 00:27:25,720 would be substantially more money 218 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,020 and would require new funding ask. 219 00:27:29,020 --> 00:27:30,180 - All out, Councillor? 220 00:27:30,180 --> 00:27:32,280 - Yeah, just one on this and that is, 221 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,490 but that net amount that isn't big enough 222 00:27:34,490 --> 00:27:36,630 to cover the recycling, is that because a good 223 00:27:36,630 --> 00:27:36,900 chunk 224 00:27:36,900 --> 00:27:40,270 of it went to offset the green bin? 225 00:27:40,270 --> 00:27:41,540 - Go ahead, Mr. Chair. 226 00:27:41,540 --> 00:27:45,320 - Mr. Chair, the funding that previously was 227 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:45,680 given up 228 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,970 in large for the blue bin was removed from our 229 00:27:49,970 --> 00:27:50,300 budgets 230 00:27:50,300 --> 00:27:52,250 and that funding was no longer available. 231 00:27:52,250 --> 00:27:53,690 There was a small amount of funding, 232 00:27:53,690 --> 00:27:56,740 still funding the NES that we had retained with 233 00:27:56,740 --> 00:27:58,510 the expectation we would be able to continue 234 00:27:58,510 --> 00:28:01,240 to offer a commingled service on the routes that 235 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,250 were residentially picked up by the 236 00:28:03,250 --> 00:28:05,640 provincial pros and that we would simply fund 237 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:07,990 that service for the businesses receiving 238 00:28:07,990 --> 00:28:09,780 it previously. 239 00:28:09,780 --> 00:28:12,140 It was late last year that that funding was no 240 00:28:12,140 --> 00:28:14,550 longer required because we were not allowed 241 00:28:14,550 --> 00:28:17,700 to pay the provincial processors and collectors 242 00:28:17,700 --> 00:28:18,790 through that. 243 00:28:18,790 --> 00:28:21,090 So that money was returned to its original source 244 00:28:21,090 --> 00:28:23,180 which would have been used offset increases 245 00:28:23,180 --> 00:28:26,070 in the mill rate last year. 246 00:28:26,070 --> 00:28:26,910 - Okay, thanks. 247 00:28:26,910 --> 00:28:29,200 That's helpful to have that just overall summary 248 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,730 because this is a really big issue for our 249 00:28:31,730 --> 00:28:32,390 businesses. 250 00:28:32,390 --> 00:28:34,420 You know, a lot of them are committed 251 00:28:34,420 --> 00:28:36,090 to doing the recycling. 252 00:28:36,090 --> 00:28:38,340 They wanna do it and they really don't have the 253 00:28:38,340 --> 00:28:38,640 time 254 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,230 or the money to do this properly. 255 00:28:41,230 --> 00:28:44,750 Putting it in the garbage hurts a lot of them to 256 00:28:44,750 --> 00:28:45,210 do that. 257 00:28:45,210 --> 00:28:47,360 And I don't think it helps us either with our 258 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:48,480 landfill goals. 259 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:54,610 So again, maybe I guess just one more follow up 260 00:28:54,610 --> 00:28:56,770 on that 261 00:28:56,770 --> 00:29:03,830 is what are next steps for the businesses? 262 00:29:03,830 --> 00:29:05,770 Like are we looking at potentially 263 00:29:05,770 --> 00:29:07,520 for the next multi-year budget, 264 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,190 providing services to businesses, 265 00:29:09,190 --> 00:29:13,950 or is it just advocacy to the province on this? 266 00:29:13,950 --> 00:29:15,490 - Mr. Edwards, Mr. Chair, what do you wanna take 267 00:29:15,490 --> 00:29:18,090 on? 268 00:29:18,090 --> 00:29:19,490 - Thank you, Mr. Chair. 269 00:29:19,490 --> 00:29:21,960 At this time, it would be very difficult to offer 270 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,570 a city-wide service for the approximately 21 to 2 271 00:29:24,570 --> 00:29:25,110 ,200 272 00:29:25,110 --> 00:29:28,420 small businesses that could be eligible. 273 00:29:28,420 --> 00:29:31,490 We previously had serviced about 535 businesses 274 00:29:31,490 --> 00:29:33,480 because they were on our residential routes. 275 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:35,150 Because we're no longer allowed to combine the 276 00:29:35,150 --> 00:29:35,430 stream 277 00:29:35,430 --> 00:29:37,030 for collection and processing, 278 00:29:37,030 --> 00:29:38,860 there's no longer geographic reason 279 00:29:38,860 --> 00:29:40,770 to only support those businesses, 280 00:29:40,770 --> 00:29:42,930 we would have to roll it out to all of their 281 00:29:42,930 --> 00:29:43,720 competitors 282 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,610 who would be of similar sort of size and scale. 283 00:29:46,610 --> 00:29:49,130 Managing a program throughout the entire city, 284 00:29:49,130 --> 00:29:51,600 which is extremely dispersed, would be quite 285 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:52,290 difficult. 286 00:29:52,290 --> 00:29:54,320 New businesses start up frequently, 287 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,040 they close frequently as well. 288 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:57,950 So the administrative side of trying to manage 289 00:29:57,950 --> 00:30:00,990 a citywide program would be quite high. 290 00:30:00,990 --> 00:30:02,820 If council wishes us to explore that, 291 00:30:02,820 --> 00:30:04,560 we would be happy to bring back a business case, 292 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,390 but it will be well over a million dollars to do 293 00:30:07,390 --> 00:30:07,950 that. 294 00:30:07,950 --> 00:30:11,040 With respect to the 535 that could easily be re 295 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:11,870 accommodated, 296 00:30:11,870 --> 00:30:13,820 should we be allowed to put them back in? 297 00:30:13,820 --> 00:30:15,340 If there were changes from the province 298 00:30:15,340 --> 00:30:17,570 allowing that comming going to happen again, 299 00:30:17,570 --> 00:30:20,210 they could be serviced for a much smaller amount. 300 00:30:20,210 --> 00:30:22,210 If they could be, if we could simply pay for them 301 00:30:22,210 --> 00:30:24,440 to be collected with the residential blue bin. 302 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,760 So at this time, our focus is on providing the 303 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:27,510 opportunity 304 00:30:27,510 --> 00:30:30,480 at the Enviro Depot's, adding the green bin 305 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:30,910 service 306 00:30:30,910 --> 00:30:33,820 and continue to advocate for more flexibility 307 00:30:33,820 --> 00:30:35,900 on the inclusion of non-eligible sources 308 00:30:35,900 --> 00:30:38,490 on residential routes. 309 00:30:38,490 --> 00:30:39,310 - I'll hope Councilor. 310 00:30:39,310 --> 00:30:40,130 - No, that's good. 311 00:30:40,130 --> 00:30:40,940 Thank you for the summary. 312 00:30:40,940 --> 00:30:43,370 Like I said, it's helpful. 313 00:30:43,370 --> 00:30:44,770 - Okay, thank you. 314 00:30:44,770 --> 00:30:47,040 Just noting Mayor Morgan, you have joined us. 315 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,790 2.8 and 2.9 were pulled, but you did put up your 316 00:30:49,790 --> 00:30:49,980 hand. 317 00:30:49,980 --> 00:30:53,040 So I'll go to you and looking for other committee 318 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:53,290 members 319 00:30:53,290 --> 00:30:54,240 that they wanna speak first. 320 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:55,200 So go ahead, Mayor Morgan. 321 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:56,040 - Sure, thanks. 322 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,980 I'll add my voice to the previous comments 323 00:30:58,980 --> 00:31:00,930 that Councilor Frank and Councilor Stevenson 324 00:31:00,930 --> 00:31:06,090 made about the ending of the Blue Box program. As 325 00:31:06,090 --> 00:31:07,990 colleagues know, the reason why we did 326 00:31:07,990 --> 00:31:09,950 this is it made a lot of sense. We were driving 327 00:31:09,950 --> 00:31:12,510 by anyways. We ran the program. We contracted 328 00:31:12,510 --> 00:31:15,960 out to Miller Waste Services. They're driving by 329 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,210 churches, small businesses. And why wouldn't 330 00:31:19,210 --> 00:31:21,620 we stop and pick it up? It's not a huge 331 00:31:21,620 --> 00:31:24,290 incremental cost in our part. Given we don't run 332 00:31:24,290 --> 00:31:24,480 the Blue 333 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,900 Box program anymore, we don't contract the trucks 334 00:31:26,900 --> 00:31:30,570 . And Miller Waste essentially has been 335 00:31:30,570 --> 00:31:32,940 directed by circular materials Ontario to only 336 00:31:32,940 --> 00:31:35,690 pick up from residential sources, to me the 337 00:31:35,690 --> 00:31:36,050 easiest 338 00:31:36,050 --> 00:31:39,090 solution is there are trucks driving by already. 339 00:31:39,090 --> 00:31:41,020 They're they're not directed by us anymore. And 340 00:31:41,020 --> 00:31:43,650 there's an advocacy piece here with the province 341 00:31:43,650 --> 00:31:46,110 which has been a very pro-business friendly 342 00:31:46,110 --> 00:31:48,260 government I think to have a meaningful 343 00:31:48,260 --> 00:31:50,490 conversation with them to say there's probably 344 00:31:50,490 --> 00:31:50,810 lots of 345 00:31:50,810 --> 00:31:52,960 communities where this could make a lot of sense. 346 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:54,960 The costs are very incremental and I think there 347 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:55,060 's 348 00:31:55,030 --> 00:31:57,420 a fair discussion to have with I think a province 349 00:31:57,420 --> 00:31:59,330 that is relatively willing to listen 350 00:32:00,210 --> 00:32:03,080 to say you've got trucks driving by anyways now 351 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,550 through circular materials Ontario they've got 352 00:32:05,550 --> 00:32:05,700 all 353 00:32:05,700 --> 00:32:08,030 the existing contracts they could just as easily 354 00:32:08,030 --> 00:32:10,770 service these 535 businesses in our city and 355 00:32:10,770 --> 00:32:10,870 others 356 00:32:10,770 --> 00:32:13,630 maybe across the province by making a stop and 357 00:32:13,630 --> 00:32:16,600 picking it up so I'm certainly happy to continue 358 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,890 that advocacy piece and engage within discussions 359 00:32:18,890 --> 00:32:23,350 with the province on that. I agree with our staff 360 00:32:23,350 --> 00:32:26,550 like us then to constitute a program for just 361 00:32:26,550 --> 00:32:30,050 those 535 businesses would now be we're 362 00:32:30,050 --> 00:32:30,560 developing a 363 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,640 whole new program for just a section of the city, 364 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:34,730 it probably makes sense that we would 365 00:32:34,730 --> 00:32:37,750 develop it for 2100 businesses and that is going 366 00:32:37,750 --> 00:32:39,550 to be something that would be a fairly 367 00:32:39,550 --> 00:32:42,670 substantial budget cost. So, you know, I think 368 00:32:42,670 --> 00:32:45,740 the path here as an intern step to allow some 369 00:32:45,740 --> 00:32:48,290 drop-offs even though it isn't convenient, it is 370 00:32:48,290 --> 00:32:50,500 fair to help them transition. Ultimately, 371 00:32:50,500 --> 00:32:53,070 the best solution here is the truck's driving by 372 00:32:53,070 --> 00:32:55,230 making extra stop and pick up some extra 373 00:32:55,230 --> 00:32:55,690 materials 374 00:32:55,690 --> 00:32:58,450 as we were doing when we ran the service. So, I'm 375 00:32:58,450 --> 00:33:00,320 happy to engage in that advocacy. 376 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,840 I'm happy to have colleagues support me in that. 377 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:04,510 I know we'll have an AMO conference coming up. 378 00:33:04,510 --> 00:33:05,940 We'll probably have lots of ability 379 00:33:05,940 --> 00:33:07,850 to have side conversations with ministers. 380 00:33:07,850 --> 00:33:10,190 But any interim, I think that there is a really 381 00:33:10,190 --> 00:33:10,430 easy 382 00:33:10,430 --> 00:33:13,270 solution here and that's do what we were doing. 383 00:33:13,270 --> 00:33:15,530 Pick it up on the way by and help the businesses 384 00:33:15,530 --> 00:33:15,700 out 385 00:33:15,700 --> 00:33:17,510 when the residential routes are being collected 386 00:33:17,510 --> 00:33:19,580 anyway still. 387 00:33:19,580 --> 00:33:21,160 - Okay, thank you, Mayor Morgan. 388 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,420 Not seeing any other hands from committee members 389 00:33:23,420 --> 00:33:23,520 . 390 00:33:23,420 --> 00:33:25,630 I have Councillor Trosto for ARA and Pribble. 391 00:33:25,630 --> 00:33:27,090 So go ahead, Councillor Trosto. 392 00:33:27,090 --> 00:33:31,360 - You go first. 393 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,100 - Just to make the bottom line really short here, 394 00:33:34,100 --> 00:33:35,460 I think we're all on the same page. 395 00:33:35,460 --> 00:33:37,450 I think we all want to support this. 396 00:33:37,450 --> 00:33:39,560 What's happened is really unacceptable. 397 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:41,320 It's outside of our control. 398 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:42,790 We're doing the best that we can. 399 00:33:42,790 --> 00:33:44,950 Back in November, this came to the CAHPS 400 00:33:44,950 --> 00:33:45,620 committee 401 00:33:45,620 --> 00:33:50,330 and we instituted the sort of a chain of events 402 00:33:50,330 --> 00:33:52,890 that resulted in the staff report we received 403 00:33:52,890 --> 00:33:53,640 back today, 404 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,550 which was, it wasn't accepted unanimously, 405 00:33:56,550 --> 00:33:58,930 but it was accepted by the council and here we 406 00:33:58,930 --> 00:33:59,340 are. 407 00:33:59,340 --> 00:34:02,220 So I just want to say as a member of that 408 00:34:02,220 --> 00:34:03,330 original CAHPS 409 00:34:03,330 --> 00:34:05,970 committee that sent this off, 410 00:34:05,970 --> 00:34:08,110 was ultimately dealt with by two different 411 00:34:08,110 --> 00:34:08,390 committees 412 00:34:08,390 --> 00:34:11,090 'cause we had a change in committee jurisdiction. 413 00:34:11,090 --> 00:34:13,160 But I think we're all saying the same thing. 414 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:14,910 But one thing I would like to request though 415 00:34:14,910 --> 00:34:17,730 is you stayed in the staff report 416 00:34:17,730 --> 00:34:22,730 that you did send that advocacy letter to the 417 00:34:22,730 --> 00:34:23,350 province 418 00:34:23,350 --> 00:34:26,070 and they did respond by rejecting our request. 419 00:34:26,070 --> 00:34:28,950 And I wanna be really specific that we've already 420 00:34:28,950 --> 00:34:30,050 done that 421 00:34:30,050 --> 00:34:32,490 and it would be helpful to have that letter. 422 00:34:32,490 --> 00:34:34,190 'Cause I think there's a little bit of confusion 423 00:34:34,190 --> 00:34:36,210 when we say we should do some advocacy work. 424 00:34:36,210 --> 00:34:37,550 We've already tried doing that. 425 00:34:37,550 --> 00:34:39,290 We should step it up and do it again. 426 00:34:39,290 --> 00:34:40,400 So I agree. 427 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:46,490 However, what's the problem here is the text of 428 00:34:46,490 --> 00:34:46,670 the Oreg, 429 00:34:46,670 --> 00:34:49,960 of the regulation that says there has to be 430 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:50,980 separate source 431 00:34:50,980 --> 00:34:52,320 for the recyclables. 432 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:57,150 And I have yet, and I think everyone would agree, 433 00:34:57,150 --> 00:35:01,340 we've yet to be provided with any type of sort of 434 00:35:01,340 --> 00:35:02,010 rationale 435 00:35:02,010 --> 00:35:05,280 justification from the province as to why that 436 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:06,010 provision 437 00:35:06,010 --> 00:35:09,260 remains in the regulations and that's what's 438 00:35:09,260 --> 00:35:10,910 causing the problem with being able to 439 00:35:10,910 --> 00:35:14,220 pick these things up as we go along. So I think 440 00:35:14,220 --> 00:35:16,310 that this is just something we'll have to follow 441 00:35:16,310 --> 00:35:18,760 up on. I think the mayor is quite correct when he 442 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:20,680 says maybe we can work with some other 443 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:25,940 cities who are similarly situated at AMO. But all 444 00:35:25,940 --> 00:35:29,350 in all, my main point here today is thank 445 00:35:29,350 --> 00:35:32,150 you so much to the staff for getting this back to 446 00:35:32,150 --> 00:35:34,760 us so quickly. And I think that we have a very 447 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,580 good solution for the green bin and I think we 448 00:35:37,580 --> 00:35:41,090 have a very good solution to the blue box. 449 00:35:41,090 --> 00:35:45,220 But I think it's important that we recognize that 450 00:35:45,220 --> 00:35:47,830 those are two different policy problems 451 00:35:47,830 --> 00:35:49,330 with different sets of rules. 452 00:35:49,330 --> 00:35:51,110 But I think we've done the best we can do here 453 00:35:51,110 --> 00:35:52,770 and I'll be supporting this at council. 454 00:35:52,770 --> 00:35:54,590 Thank you. 455 00:35:54,590 --> 00:35:55,540 Okay. 456 00:35:55,540 --> 00:35:56,500 Thank you, Councillor. 457 00:35:56,500 --> 00:35:57,650 Councillor Ferri, go ahead. 458 00:35:57,650 --> 00:35:58,610 Thank you. 459 00:35:58,610 --> 00:36:00,810 And I guess in tune with the last comments, I 460 00:36:00,810 --> 00:36:02,440 appreciate staff's work on this. 461 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:04,890 I know you moved really quick on it, especially 462 00:36:04,890 --> 00:36:07,020 when we knew what circular materials were 463 00:36:07,020 --> 00:36:08,350 was going to come out with, and it was going to 464 00:36:08,350 --> 00:36:10,230 be a producer-led responsibility. 465 00:36:10,230 --> 00:36:11,810 But then late in the game, we kind of found out 466 00:36:11,810 --> 00:36:13,220 that there was going to be a whole swath 467 00:36:13,220 --> 00:36:15,160 of non-eligible sources that wouldn't be coming 468 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:16,110 through with that. 469 00:36:16,110 --> 00:36:18,260 I remember the conversation I was having with Ms. 470 00:36:18,260 --> 00:36:19,880 Chambers and Ms. Share on this and what 471 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:21,030 we would do to move forward. 472 00:36:21,030 --> 00:36:24,920 So I do appreciate this report coming through. 473 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,150 I in line with what the mayor was saying, I think 474 00:36:27,150 --> 00:36:28,700 our first conversation was, so the 475 00:36:28,700 --> 00:36:30,380 Miller waste trucks are driving by these 476 00:36:30,380 --> 00:36:32,530 locations, picking up residential eligible 477 00:36:32,530 --> 00:36:33,000 sources and 478 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,150 skipping the eligible sources. 479 00:36:35,150 --> 00:36:36,710 the first part of that conversation was about the 480 00:36:36,710 --> 00:36:38,560 economy's scale, like it doesn't really 481 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,300 make sense to me. So I do hope that the advocacy 482 00:36:41,300 --> 00:36:43,090 on that would be able to at least pick those 483 00:36:43,090 --> 00:36:45,390 up because the trucks are already there. And it 484 00:36:45,390 --> 00:36:47,110 would be much cheaper if the trucks would 485 00:36:47,110 --> 00:36:49,500 be able to just pick that up. And then however it 486 00:36:49,500 --> 00:36:52,300 works down on the back end. But with this, 487 00:36:52,300 --> 00:36:54,280 with this, I guess, direction coming forward, 488 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,130 like I appreciate the work that you've done. 489 00:36:56,130 --> 00:36:58,060 I do hear what businesses are saying, you know, 490 00:36:58,060 --> 00:36:59,960 like, you know, there's still that gap 491 00:36:59,960 --> 00:37:01,670 of how we're going to, we're going to have to 492 00:37:01,670 --> 00:37:03,510 bring these materials to the Enviro-Depos 493 00:37:03,510 --> 00:37:05,660 now, but I do see that we're trying to work with 494 00:37:05,660 --> 00:37:07,300 something that will bring at least some 495 00:37:07,300 --> 00:37:09,210 type of option forward. 496 00:37:09,210 --> 00:37:10,210 So I do appreciate everything. 497 00:37:10,210 --> 00:37:12,670 What Councillor Trussell said, I agree with the 498 00:37:12,670 --> 00:37:14,680 regulations and just kind of how that 499 00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:15,670 splits it up. 500 00:37:15,670 --> 00:37:17,850 Maybe that could be a conversation that could be 501 00:37:17,850 --> 00:37:18,550 had as well. 502 00:37:18,550 --> 00:37:20,400 So I'm not going to go all over those points, but 503 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:21,900 I do want to ask some questions that I 504 00:37:21,900 --> 00:37:25,400 saw with the report, and I do see with the Enviro 505 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,220 Depot recycling pilot portion itself. 506 00:37:28,220 --> 00:37:30,860 I guess when we compare it to what I read about 507 00:37:30,860 --> 00:37:33,080 the green pin, the green bin part, there's 508 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:34,720 going to be mailouts that are going out to the 509 00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:36,330 potential eligible sources for the green 510 00:37:36,330 --> 00:37:37,320 bin recipients. 511 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:39,810 But I didn't necessarily see that for the Enviro 512 00:37:39,810 --> 00:37:41,880 Depot pilot project, so I just wanted 513 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,820 to know from staff, how are we going to contact 514 00:37:45,820 --> 00:37:50,490 potential eligible, non-eligible sources that 515 00:37:50,490 --> 00:37:52,710 they may be eligible for this project? 516 00:37:52,710 --> 00:37:56,530 Mr. Chambers, go ahead. 517 00:37:56,530 --> 00:37:57,520 Thank you, and through the chair. 518 00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:59,720 Yes, we did have the addresses already for the 5 519 00:37:59,720 --> 00:38:01,810 35, through previous work we've done, 520 00:38:01,810 --> 00:38:04,070 so of course they can receive a letter. 521 00:38:04,070 --> 00:38:05,580 But as far as the Depot drop off, we'll be 522 00:38:05,580 --> 00:38:07,410 working with our communications department 523 00:38:07,410 --> 00:38:09,700 to basically spread the word. 524 00:38:09,700 --> 00:38:11,830 So that's the plan at this moment, is to do it 525 00:38:11,830 --> 00:38:13,850 that way through public communications 526 00:38:13,850 --> 00:38:16,700 and just say, "Hey, small business owners, check 527 00:38:16,700 --> 00:38:18,620 if you qualify and you can bring your 528 00:38:18,620 --> 00:38:19,680 recyclables." 529 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,240 Because technically those folks haven't had 530 00:38:22,240 --> 00:38:25,110 really a recyclable option at all previously. 531 00:38:25,110 --> 00:38:27,290 So we'll just try to do it through a word of 532 00:38:27,290 --> 00:38:29,140 mouth. 533 00:38:29,140 --> 00:38:30,280 Follow up, Councillor. 534 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:31,240 Okay, thank you for that. 535 00:38:31,240 --> 00:38:33,760 So if I have businesses reaching out, which I do, 536 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,340 and they're requesting if they would 537 00:38:35,340 --> 00:38:37,470 be eligible or not. I would be okay to just 538 00:38:37,470 --> 00:38:38,740 forward that off to staff and see 539 00:38:38,740 --> 00:38:42,970 if staff can see if they're eligible or not. Go 540 00:38:42,970 --> 00:38:44,950 ahead Ms. James. Thank you and 541 00:38:44,950 --> 00:38:46,820 through the chair yes you would be able to 542 00:38:46,820 --> 00:38:48,450 contact our staff and we'll confirm 543 00:38:48,450 --> 00:38:51,630 that they're eligible we'll have to register them 544 00:38:51,630 --> 00:38:54,830 as such as well. All of 545 00:38:54,830 --> 00:38:57,940 Councilor. Okay thank you for that and will there 546 00:38:57,940 --> 00:38:59,260 be another staff report coming 547 00:38:59,260 --> 00:39:03,160 back I guess before or during the rollout or soon 548 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:05,020 after the rollout just to see I 549 00:39:05,020 --> 00:39:07,390 I guess how many of the non-eligible sources 550 00:39:07,390 --> 00:39:10,870 were able to plug into this project on both sides 551 00:39:10,870 --> 00:39:11,900 ? 552 00:39:11,900 --> 00:39:13,360 - Go ahead, Mr. Chairman. 553 00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:14,560 - Thank you and through the chair. 554 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:16,860 Yes, the report back is somewhat implied 555 00:39:16,860 --> 00:39:18,210 in the fact that we're doing the pilot. 556 00:39:18,210 --> 00:39:20,950 So we're using the pilot to inform 557 00:39:20,950 --> 00:39:22,940 more or less the next multi-year budget process 558 00:39:22,940 --> 00:39:24,090 because at this moment we don't know 559 00:39:24,090 --> 00:39:25,250 how many participants there are, 560 00:39:25,250 --> 00:39:27,160 therefore we don't really know the cost going 561 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:27,510 forward 562 00:39:27,510 --> 00:39:30,160 beyond this coming year. 563 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,750 So there will be another report going forward. 564 00:39:32,750 --> 00:39:35,490 It may just form a business case 565 00:39:35,490 --> 00:39:38,870 is part of the budget though. 566 00:39:38,870 --> 00:39:39,800 - Go ahead, Councillor. 567 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:40,560 - Thank you for that. 568 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:45,380 And I guess it's implied that the green bin 569 00:39:45,380 --> 00:39:45,850 portion 570 00:39:45,850 --> 00:39:49,230 will go on into continuity moving forward, 571 00:39:49,230 --> 00:39:52,140 but the Enviro Depot portion is supposed to end 572 00:39:52,140 --> 00:39:54,400 at the end of 2027. 573 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,590 So if we are successful with the province, 574 00:39:57,590 --> 00:39:59,220 then this pilot project ends, 575 00:39:59,220 --> 00:40:00,650 and then we are able to, I guess, 576 00:40:00,650 --> 00:40:05,090 have the Circulars Material Ontario program pick 577 00:40:05,090 --> 00:40:05,600 that up. 578 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:07,830 And if not, I guess that would be another 579 00:40:07,830 --> 00:40:08,620 conversation it had. 580 00:40:08,620 --> 00:40:13,350 So I just wanted to know, my confirming question 581 00:40:13,350 --> 00:40:15,720 would be really is the green bin is gonna be 582 00:40:15,720 --> 00:40:16,270 continued 583 00:40:16,270 --> 00:40:17,930 and the environmental depo section, I guess, 584 00:40:17,930 --> 00:40:21,240 depending on how things go, we'll have to go from 585 00:40:21,240 --> 00:40:22,850 there. 586 00:40:22,850 --> 00:40:24,620 - Go ahead, Mr. Chairman. 587 00:40:24,620 --> 00:40:25,700 - Thank you, Mr. Chair. 588 00:40:25,700 --> 00:40:28,730 So the green bin program is expected to continue 589 00:40:28,730 --> 00:40:30,850 as it's much like the previous recycling program 590 00:40:30,850 --> 00:40:32,270 we were offering where the trucks are already 591 00:40:32,270 --> 00:40:33,430 going by. 592 00:40:33,430 --> 00:40:36,160 We have care and control over the contract for 593 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:37,250 organics. 594 00:40:37,250 --> 00:40:38,650 so as well within our abilities 595 00:40:38,650 --> 00:40:40,160 to pick up those 535 businesses. 596 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,860 So that will continue on beyond, 597 00:40:42,860 --> 00:40:45,050 there's no pilot, it can just be implemented. 598 00:40:45,050 --> 00:40:46,050 For those who are interested, 599 00:40:46,050 --> 00:40:48,330 they can reach out to us and we'll get them on 600 00:40:48,330 --> 00:40:48,790 board. 601 00:40:48,790 --> 00:40:50,110 With respect to the other item 602 00:40:50,110 --> 00:40:53,130 of the non-eligible sources for businesses, 603 00:40:53,130 --> 00:40:56,620 they will see what happens to your point. 604 00:40:56,620 --> 00:40:57,840 We'll continue with this pilot. 605 00:40:57,840 --> 00:40:59,690 We'll be reporting back on the business case. 606 00:40:59,690 --> 00:41:01,360 If anything changed with the province, 607 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:02,490 definitely we can pivot. 608 00:41:02,490 --> 00:41:03,780 There's no question about that 609 00:41:03,780 --> 00:41:07,030 and would welcome that going back to the 535 610 00:41:07,030 --> 00:41:10,220 curbside for sure if the waste could be co-ming 611 00:41:10,220 --> 00:41:11,330 led with the Oreg being 612 00:41:11,330 --> 00:41:14,970 updated basically. Follow-up Councilor. Okay 613 00:41:14,970 --> 00:41:16,050 thank you for that no follow-ups 614 00:41:16,050 --> 00:41:17,890 I appreciate the answers I guess some comments it 615 00:41:17,890 --> 00:41:19,080 seems that we are all aligned 616 00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:20,810 here so I appreciate the work that we've done so 617 00:41:20,810 --> 00:41:22,140 far I would obviously like to 618 00:41:22,140 --> 00:41:24,460 capture more of the non-eligible sources than we 619 00:41:24,460 --> 00:41:25,770 have right now but this is at 620 00:41:25,770 --> 00:41:27,620 least something moving forward and I'm hoping 621 00:41:27,620 --> 00:41:28,880 that we have some success with 622 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,210 the province so we can capture everybody or all 623 00:41:31,210 --> 00:41:32,900 the entities that were I guess 624 00:41:32,900 --> 00:41:35,170 removed from this program who want to be you want 625 00:41:35,170 --> 00:41:36,930 to be part of it so I'll be 626 00:41:36,930 --> 00:41:39,830 and I appreciate the work and thanks again to 627 00:41:39,830 --> 00:41:41,620 staff. 628 00:41:41,620 --> 00:41:43,770 - Okay, thank you, Councilor Perbal. 629 00:41:43,770 --> 00:41:45,780 You're next, go ahead. 630 00:41:45,780 --> 00:41:46,600 - Thank you, Chair. 631 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,400 And so to the staff, I'll start with 2.1, 632 00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,350 the Sunningdale Road West. 633 00:41:52,350 --> 00:41:54,250 And I just want to ask in the report, 634 00:41:54,250 --> 00:41:58,260 it says $24 million, and we did receive, 635 00:41:58,260 --> 00:42:00,790 and if we can confirm it, $18 million from the 636 00:42:00,790 --> 00:42:01,350 province. 637 00:42:01,350 --> 00:42:04,260 And I just wanna have a couple of questions. 638 00:42:04,260 --> 00:42:07,380 Is the 18 on top of the 24, is the 18, 639 00:42:07,380 --> 00:42:09,710 including the 24 and how it's recorded 640 00:42:09,710 --> 00:42:13,750 in terms of the funding of this project. 641 00:42:13,750 --> 00:42:15,090 - Councilor, you said San Angel, do you mean 642 00:42:15,090 --> 00:42:15,820 myself? 643 00:42:15,820 --> 00:42:18,740 - No, San Angel 2.1, a renew 2.1. 644 00:42:18,740 --> 00:42:19,870 - Oh, within that problem, sir. 645 00:42:19,870 --> 00:42:20,850 - Yeah, within that, sorry. 646 00:42:20,850 --> 00:42:22,220 - It's on page 22. 647 00:42:22,220 --> 00:42:30,390 - Yeah, staff, Mr. McCrae, is that you? 648 00:42:30,390 --> 00:42:32,860 - Through the chair, those dollar values are 649 00:42:32,860 --> 00:42:33,610 exclusive. 650 00:42:33,610 --> 00:42:37,480 We'll have detailed financial information on that 651 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:37,910 project 652 00:42:37,910 --> 00:42:40,710 when it comes to tender, which is anticipated. 653 00:42:40,710 --> 00:42:44,610 and I believe the next council cycle. 654 00:42:44,610 --> 00:42:45,580 - I love council. 655 00:42:45,580 --> 00:42:46,410 - Thank you for that. 656 00:42:46,410 --> 00:42:48,920 So just to confirm, let's say if it ends up being 657 00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:49,910 24 658 00:42:49,910 --> 00:42:54,410 from province 18, so that would be six 659 00:42:54,410 --> 00:42:57,610 from municipal funding, correct? 660 00:42:57,610 --> 00:43:00,510 If those amounts are accurate. 661 00:43:00,510 --> 00:43:06,840 - Go ahead, Ms. Runcray. 662 00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:10,920 - Yeah, can I recommend that we talk offline? 663 00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:14,540 I just don't want to misquote any dollar values. 664 00:43:14,540 --> 00:43:17,090 Yeah, I'd be pleased to clarify the information 665 00:43:17,090 --> 00:43:19,640 with you after the meeting. 666 00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,170 Council so you can follow up to you now Council. 667 00:43:22,170 --> 00:43:23,480 And I certainly will do so. Thank you. 668 00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:27,320 Thank you 2.2. Very happy to of course, very 669 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,350 happy to see that there are small businesses now 670 00:43:29,350 --> 00:43:31,960 that when I talk to them, they are not recycling 671 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,770 and everything ends up being in the garbage bags. 672 00:43:34,770 --> 00:43:37,290 So I do have a question though in terms of the 673 00:43:37,290 --> 00:43:40,270 downtown because downtown didn't have the program 674 00:43:40,270 --> 00:43:43,590 before in the past. Is this going to be 675 00:43:43,590 --> 00:43:47,430 potentially an option for downtown businesses as 676 00:43:47,430 --> 00:43:48,170 well to do 677 00:43:48,170 --> 00:43:50,440 do the Enviro Depot or is it gonna be just the 678 00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:50,680 ones 679 00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:54,230 that have been so far lost on the program 680 00:43:54,230 --> 00:43:56,540 that were on it before? 681 00:43:56,540 --> 00:43:58,220 - I go ahead Ms. Chambers. 682 00:43:58,220 --> 00:43:59,880 - Thank you and through the chair. 683 00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:01,190 The Depot program will actually be open 684 00:44:01,190 --> 00:44:02,740 to all businesses citywide. 685 00:44:02,740 --> 00:44:04,480 So there is a bit of an improvement there 686 00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:06,070 that actually everyone will have access 687 00:44:06,070 --> 00:44:09,240 to a drop off location for folks who are willing 688 00:44:09,240 --> 00:44:10,200 to go there. 689 00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:13,940 I will note just for reference, 690 00:44:13,940 --> 00:44:16,210 as I could have mentioned this earlier, 691 00:44:16,210 --> 00:44:18,070 the small businesses were generating maybe about 692 00:44:18,070 --> 00:44:19,180 300 tons 693 00:44:19,180 --> 00:44:21,140 annually and our whole annual collections 694 00:44:21,140 --> 00:44:23,060 usually around 21,000 tons. 695 00:44:23,060 --> 00:44:24,720 So it just gives you a bit of order of magnitude 696 00:44:24,720 --> 00:44:25,120 everyone 697 00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:26,750 about kind of how much we're losing. 698 00:44:26,750 --> 00:44:29,110 Not that we want to lose anything, 699 00:44:29,110 --> 00:44:32,560 but just that in terms of the cost benefit aspect 700 00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:34,220 . 701 00:44:34,220 --> 00:44:35,600 - Okay follow up, Councillor. 702 00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:36,840 - Okay, follow up actually. 703 00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,300 And I'm going to go back, I think by page 39. 704 00:44:39,300 --> 00:44:41,730 And there were some municipalities that actually 705 00:44:41,730 --> 00:44:43,600 are continuing this occur. 706 00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:46,540 And if I understand this appendix correctly, 707 00:44:46,540 --> 00:44:48,690 there are some municipalities that are actually 708 00:44:48,690 --> 00:44:49,130 continuing 709 00:44:49,130 --> 00:44:52,390 is the program and to kind of follow up with them 710 00:44:52,390 --> 00:44:57,150 how they do it in terms of the both kind of the 711 00:44:57,150 --> 00:44:57,900 calendar 712 00:44:57,900 --> 00:45:01,990 in terms of the collection and also the funding. 713 00:45:01,990 --> 00:45:03,990 Go ahead, Mr. Chairman. 714 00:45:03,990 --> 00:45:04,960 - Thank you and to the chair. 715 00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:06,490 We did do quite a bit of homework on 716 00:45:06,490 --> 00:45:09,290 what other municipalities were doing. 717 00:45:09,290 --> 00:45:11,350 A lot of them are offering different programs. 718 00:45:11,350 --> 00:45:13,170 For example, in Ottawa, 719 00:45:13,170 --> 00:45:15,000 all of the businesses pay for their garbage 720 00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:15,590 collection. 721 00:45:15,590 --> 00:45:17,440 So they've kind of just added that on as an 722 00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:18,210 additional fee 723 00:45:18,210 --> 00:45:20,920 that they'll pay for their recycling. 724 00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:23,930 We've had other people that just went with 725 00:45:23,930 --> 00:45:25,920 extending services as part of existing service 726 00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:26,900 contracts. 727 00:45:26,900 --> 00:45:29,370 So they were kind of already doing things like 728 00:45:29,370 --> 00:45:31,480 this, Hamilton, St. Thomas. 729 00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:32,740 They were already offering these types of 730 00:45:32,740 --> 00:45:33,180 services. 731 00:45:33,180 --> 00:45:35,370 So other municipalities operate their 732 00:45:35,370 --> 00:45:38,330 administration differently as the short answer. 733 00:45:38,330 --> 00:45:40,740 So in some cases it might make more sense than 734 00:45:40,740 --> 00:45:41,520 others. 735 00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:44,780 In the couple examples of the report we noted, it 736 00:45:44,780 --> 00:45:47,640 's their choice to do it at a higher cost. 737 00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:48,980 We don't know of the timeline that those 738 00:45:48,980 --> 00:45:50,610 municipalities are willing to pay that extra 739 00:45:50,610 --> 00:45:53,750 cost but again when we look at that kind of 740 00:45:53,750 --> 00:45:56,910 magnitude of one to two million dollars again 741 00:45:56,910 --> 00:45:59,290 to capture maybe 300 tons that's a lot of the 742 00:45:59,290 --> 00:46:01,900 reason why we're not really recommending it for 743 00:46:01,900 --> 00:46:05,840 this very very dispersed program. Hello Councill 744 00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:08,900 or. Okay thank you for that answer 2.4 the South 745 00:46:08,900 --> 00:46:12,100 Stale Road West and there's an increase of 50 746 00:46:12,100 --> 00:46:15,720 percent and I know it states there in the report 747 00:46:15,720 --> 00:46:18,640 what it's for or the reasoning but I want to ask 748 00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:23,570 you is this because originally the Southdale 749 00:46:23,570 --> 00:46:27,350 sector are we enlarging it the project or is it 750 00:46:27,350 --> 00:46:31,600 something that we kind of after we started this 751 00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:33,860 we decided to go with the slope stability 752 00:46:33,860 --> 00:46:36,210 improvement environmental storm water 753 00:46:36,210 --> 00:46:40,330 so I just want to if it was additional asks we 754 00:46:40,330 --> 00:46:43,940 had for the 50 percent or even in large the South 755 00:46:43,940 --> 00:46:44,250 dale 756 00:46:44,250 --> 00:46:50,650 sector. Go ahead, Mr. McRae. Through the chair, 757 00:46:50,650 --> 00:46:54,270 there are infrastructure needs outside of the 758 00:46:54,270 --> 00:46:57,890 limits of the original project. It's been on our 759 00:46:57,890 --> 00:47:01,140 minds to address these because it's affecting the 760 00:47:01,140 --> 00:47:05,640 road stability. So now that we have additional 761 00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:09,450 information to address that section, we are 762 00:47:09,450 --> 00:47:13,000 expanding the limits of the South Dale Road 763 00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:17,810 project to address those issues at the same time 764 00:47:17,810 --> 00:47:21,770 for better coordination with the Southdale Road 765 00:47:21,770 --> 00:47:24,130 project. So that is the bulk of the addendum 766 00:47:24,130 --> 00:47:27,770 and then included in that is the other items but 767 00:47:27,770 --> 00:47:31,080 the major reason is expanding the limits 768 00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:35,080 to address all the needs in the area. Follow up 769 00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,040 Councillor. Okay thank you for that answer 770 00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:43,950 and last one 2.6. It's a project to projects and 771 00:47:43,950 --> 00:47:47,240 it states there if I were to correctly that it's 772 00:47:47,240 --> 00:47:50,310 part of the renew project of when I looked at it, 773 00:47:50,310 --> 00:47:51,770 the Edinburgh Street and 774 00:47:51,770 --> 00:47:54,640 vital path and country lane. They were not 775 00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:56,940 included there. And my question is, 776 00:47:56,940 --> 00:48:01,750 are all the projects included in the 2.1 or that 777 00:48:01,750 --> 00:48:03,020 potentially some 778 00:48:03,020 --> 00:48:06,310 smaller amount once that are not included? Thank 779 00:48:06,310 --> 00:48:08,120 you. 780 00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:10,850 Mr. McRae. 781 00:48:10,850 --> 00:48:15,880 Sorry, through the chair. Just to give you a 782 00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:18,240 little bit of clarity on the question 783 00:48:18,240 --> 00:48:22,130 of the smaller projects. This is awarding the 784 00:48:22,130 --> 00:48:24,010 resident inspection and contract administration 785 00:48:24,010 --> 00:48:26,570 for two of our capital projects going on, and 786 00:48:26,570 --> 00:48:31,080 this award is for those two projects. 787 00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:33,370 Okay, does that answer your question, Councillor? 788 00:48:33,370 --> 00:48:37,090 No, actually, so in 2.1, we have the entire 789 00:48:37,090 --> 00:48:40,680 program, 2.6, and if I read it correctly, it 790 00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:43,380 states that both of them are part of the 791 00:48:43,380 --> 00:48:48,200 which is 2.1. But I went to 2.1. I did not find 792 00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:51,280 them there. So that's my question kind of if in 793 00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:56,630 the 2.1, all are included, or it's just in 2.1 794 00:48:56,630 --> 00:48:59,040 certain aspects of the projects included. Thank 795 00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:00,190 you. 796 00:49:00,190 --> 00:49:02,750 Mr. Chair, you're going to go ahead. 797 00:49:02,750 --> 00:49:05,000 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 2.1 highlights our top 10 798 00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,170 projects that are being delivered in 2026. There 799 00:49:07,170 --> 00:49:09,810 are dozens of other smaller infrastructure and 800 00:49:09,810 --> 00:49:10,800 new projects throughout the city. 801 00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:12,820 City, those have been contained in the ward maps. 802 00:49:12,820 --> 00:49:14,120 We've shared with you, but if you want more 803 00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:14,530 information 804 00:49:14,530 --> 00:49:15,840 on any of them, please reach out. 805 00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:18,260 We're happy to provide it. 806 00:49:18,260 --> 00:49:19,930 - Okay, Councilor, any other questions? 807 00:49:19,930 --> 00:49:20,750 - Thank you for that. 808 00:49:20,750 --> 00:49:22,520 And I don't need any additional information. 809 00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:24,590 Thank you. 810 00:49:24,590 --> 00:49:25,420 - Okay, thank you. 811 00:49:25,420 --> 00:49:27,160 And yes, those ward maps are always very helpful. 812 00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:28,620 Great for town halls. 813 00:49:28,620 --> 00:49:30,470 Looking for first-time speakers, 814 00:49:30,470 --> 00:49:32,580 before we do a second round, okay. 815 00:49:32,580 --> 00:49:33,660 Not seeing any online. 816 00:49:33,660 --> 00:49:35,650 Councilor Stevenson, you wanted to go again. 817 00:49:35,650 --> 00:49:36,480 - I did, yeah. 818 00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:38,830 I just wanted to circle back on 2.2, 819 00:49:38,830 --> 00:49:41,050 because, you know, I hear us saying, 820 00:49:41,050 --> 00:49:43,040 well, the trucks are going past anyway, 821 00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:45,190 the province would only let us pick up the other 822 00:49:45,190 --> 00:49:46,860 stuff that would be great but for whatever 823 00:49:46,860 --> 00:49:49,200 reason they've made it clear they're not going to 824 00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:51,370 do that and they could very easily come 825 00:49:51,370 --> 00:49:53,920 back to us and say we saved you 3.4 million a 826 00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:56,020 year by taking over the blue box. Why don't 827 00:49:56,020 --> 00:49:57,860 you just take care of your businesses for a 828 00:49:57,860 --> 00:49:59,990 million dollars a year? You could even expand 829 00:49:59,990 --> 00:50:03,590 it from what I understand from the 500 businesses 830 00:50:03,590 --> 00:50:08,290 to all 2100 or 2200 for just over a million. 831 00:50:08,290 --> 00:50:12,100 So when we look at the issues that are facing our 832 00:50:12,100 --> 00:50:14,200 city and our small businesses are really 833 00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:15,570 struggling. 834 00:50:15,570 --> 00:50:17,720 And they're struggling for all kinds of reasons, 835 00:50:17,720 --> 00:50:19,720 some within our control, some without. 836 00:50:19,720 --> 00:50:22,160 And there's not, we don't have many avenues to 837 00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:22,920 help them. 838 00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:26,690 But this could potentially be a way to relieve 839 00:50:26,690 --> 00:50:30,590 some costs or some service delivery issues 840 00:50:30,590 --> 00:50:33,650 that they're having by addressing this blue box 841 00:50:33,650 --> 00:50:34,160 need. 842 00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:36,280 It meets so many of the things we say are 843 00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:37,940 important in this city. 844 00:50:37,940 --> 00:50:40,730 And so I struggle with going back to businesses 845 00:50:40,730 --> 00:50:42,710 and saying, the province saved us three to 846 00:50:42,710 --> 00:50:45,750 four million a year on blue box, but we already 847 00:50:45,750 --> 00:50:47,920 put our money to our mill rate. 848 00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,960 And so sorry, we're just going to have to let you 849 00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:52,330 suffer with this. 850 00:50:52,330 --> 00:50:54,840 So I, when people say we're all on the same page, 851 00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:56,910 I mean, it's hard to say no to what's 852 00:50:56,910 --> 00:51:00,080 before us, but it's really like a little more 853 00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:01,270 than nothing. 854 00:51:01,270 --> 00:51:03,020 Like I don't know how many businesses are going 855 00:51:03,020 --> 00:51:04,500 to be excited about driving out there 856 00:51:04,500 --> 00:51:06,340 to drop off. 857 00:51:06,340 --> 00:51:07,340 Not charging them. 858 00:51:07,340 --> 00:51:11,230 absolutely support. But I really feel like this 859 00:51:11,230 --> 00:51:13,620 fall short of what we could would should do 860 00:51:13,620 --> 00:51:17,070 as a council to support businesses. We have an 861 00:51:17,070 --> 00:51:19,420 unemployment rate highest in the country. 862 00:51:19,420 --> 00:51:23,100 Our small businesses are big employers here. A 863 00:51:23,100 --> 00:51:27,490 lot of people. Well, it's my rationale for 864 00:51:27,490 --> 00:51:30,870 saying I think that we could do a lot better for 865 00:51:30,870 --> 00:51:33,960 our businesses here and maybe that's something 866 00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:36,860 and that could come through our economic 867 00:51:36,860 --> 00:51:37,760 development 868 00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:39,990 or maybe when we're talking about that strategy, 869 00:51:39,990 --> 00:51:41,610 but I don't think that we should leave it here. 870 00:51:41,610 --> 00:51:43,400 Like, this is fine for now, 871 00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:44,860 but I hope we're not gonna leave it here. 872 00:51:44,860 --> 00:51:46,660 I hope we're gonna come up with something really 873 00:51:46,660 --> 00:51:48,120 great. 874 00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:50,950 - Okay, thank you, and you're at time. 875 00:51:50,950 --> 00:51:53,850 Okay, I don't think staff need to respond to that 876 00:51:53,850 --> 00:51:55,950 if you've put forward your proposal. 877 00:51:55,950 --> 00:51:57,960 Looking for other Councillors for speaking, 878 00:51:57,960 --> 00:51:59,760 Councillor Trosto, go ahead. 879 00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:03,310 - I just wanna say, I think we are getting very 880 00:52:03,310 --> 00:52:03,560 close 881 00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:05,380 to being on the same page. 882 00:52:05,380 --> 00:52:08,780 and I do think that this is to say that this is 883 00:52:08,780 --> 00:52:11,480 almost meaningless. I think really undermines 884 00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:14,350 a lot of the good work that staff has done and 885 00:52:14,350 --> 00:52:17,520 the fact that we're trying to reach a 886 00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:20,450 compromise here when this was sort of divided at 887 00:52:20,450 --> 00:52:23,680 council and to say that it's meaningless 888 00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:26,440 or almost meaningless I think is really unfair. 889 00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:30,050 What I will say is that passing this does not 890 00:52:30,050 --> 00:52:32,220 preclude us from making an additional 891 00:52:32,220 --> 00:52:35,410 determination that we want to spend more money. I 892 00:52:35,410 --> 00:52:35,840 don't think 893 00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:38,200 I think that would be considered something 894 00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:39,980 that needs reconsideration. 895 00:52:39,980 --> 00:52:41,980 I think that would be additive to what we're 896 00:52:41,980 --> 00:52:42,760 passing here. 897 00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:46,010 And I would certainly be very happy to look at 898 00:52:46,010 --> 00:52:46,640 that. 899 00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:50,010 But it is going to require some additional 900 00:52:50,010 --> 00:52:53,450 budgetary commitment that perhaps we couldn't 901 00:52:53,450 --> 00:52:54,380 have made today. 902 00:52:54,380 --> 00:52:57,730 What's so elegant about this proposal that's in 903 00:52:57,730 --> 00:52:58,510 front of us 904 00:52:58,510 --> 00:53:00,610 is that it's already been budgeted for 905 00:53:00,610 --> 00:53:02,750 and we're not asking for any additional 906 00:53:02,750 --> 00:53:03,570 expenditures. 907 00:53:03,570 --> 00:53:06,120 And I think that's what makes the staff 908 00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:09,090 recommendation doable right now. 909 00:53:09,090 --> 00:53:12,970 But again, to address your concern, yes, we could 910 00:53:12,970 --> 00:53:14,650 be doing more. 911 00:53:14,650 --> 00:53:17,170 And I think we're going to have to see how this 912 00:53:17,170 --> 00:53:19,460 plays out with the province, because I 913 00:53:19,460 --> 00:53:22,310 think it's an absolutely arbitrary and 914 00:53:22,310 --> 00:53:26,100 unreasonable regulation for them to, I mean, what 915 00:53:26,100 --> 00:53:26,200 gets 916 00:53:26,180 --> 00:53:28,570 mixed in with recyclables. 917 00:53:28,570 --> 00:53:30,880 The worst thing I've ever heard is cheese on 918 00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:31,760 pizza boxes. 919 00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:34,610 And that's not really at play here. 920 00:53:34,610 --> 00:53:37,380 We're talking about shoe boxes and I know the opt 921 00:53:37,380 --> 00:53:40,650 ometrists have boxes for vision materials, 922 00:53:40,650 --> 00:53:43,640 but this isn't really a good place for us to be. 923 00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:45,790 So let's just stay together on this and then we 924 00:53:45,790 --> 00:53:47,660 'll take the next step and figure out if 925 00:53:47,660 --> 00:53:50,200 we need to do a multi-year budget business case 926 00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:53,310 to expand on this, which I'd be all for. 927 00:53:53,310 --> 00:53:54,760 Thank you. 928 00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:55,730 Okay. 929 00:53:55,730 --> 00:53:56,690 Thank you, Councillor Trusso. 930 00:53:56,690 --> 00:53:57,780 Councillor Ferra, go ahead. 931 00:53:57,780 --> 00:53:58,870 Thanks. 932 00:53:58,870 --> 00:53:59,850 I just wanted to, I guess, touch on that too. 933 00:53:59,850 --> 00:54:01,580 with when we talk about like the economies of 934 00:54:01,580 --> 00:54:01,890 scale, 935 00:54:01,890 --> 00:54:04,820 like the first conversation we had was, 936 00:54:04,820 --> 00:54:06,880 we would have to have a whole collection system 937 00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:09,560 with trucks, with operators picking them up 938 00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:12,710 at these specific individual locations within the 939 00:54:12,710 --> 00:54:13,140 city. 940 00:54:13,140 --> 00:54:15,500 And the money with that alone would be 941 00:54:15,500 --> 00:54:16,130 astronomical 942 00:54:16,130 --> 00:54:19,060 from the conversations I've had with staff on it. 943 00:54:19,060 --> 00:54:21,400 On top of that, we would have to have it on the 944 00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:21,800 back end 945 00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:24,240 actually go to the sites to be collected there as 946 00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:24,600 well. 947 00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:27,410 So when we talk about economies of scale, 948 00:54:27,410 --> 00:54:29,090 like the cost that we have, 949 00:54:29,090 --> 00:54:31,630 that we see that we've been talking about here, 950 00:54:31,630 --> 00:54:32,710 it's much higher than that 951 00:54:32,710 --> 00:54:34,190 if we were to actually implement that entire 952 00:54:34,190 --> 00:54:34,500 system 953 00:54:34,500 --> 00:54:36,130 and that system would be overlapping with the 954 00:54:36,130 --> 00:54:36,370 system 955 00:54:36,370 --> 00:54:37,200 that we have right now. 956 00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:39,310 It would be much wiser, more prudent, 957 00:54:39,310 --> 00:54:40,820 to advocate to the province 958 00:54:40,820 --> 00:54:42,690 and have the province see if they would be able 959 00:54:42,690 --> 00:54:43,690 to pick up 960 00:54:43,690 --> 00:54:47,150 those non-eligible sources in residential areas 961 00:54:47,150 --> 00:54:48,450 when they're already there with the trucks 962 00:54:48,450 --> 00:54:50,390 because that would be much more cost efficient 963 00:54:50,390 --> 00:54:51,340 in moving forward. 964 00:54:51,340 --> 00:54:53,040 This is giving us a bridge to get there. 965 00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:55,990 Obviously, I would like to see pickups 966 00:54:55,990 --> 00:54:58,800 from the locations either to Enviro Depot's 967 00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:02,010 or either to our collection sites. 968 00:55:02,010 --> 00:55:05,770 But at the same time, how much does that cost 969 00:55:05,770 --> 00:55:07,470 if we were to implement that on top 970 00:55:07,470 --> 00:55:08,620 of the system that we have right now? 971 00:55:08,620 --> 00:55:09,810 So I think this is a good path forward. 972 00:55:09,810 --> 00:55:10,680 It does give us a bridge. 973 00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:11,630 It does give us some time. 974 00:55:11,630 --> 00:55:14,450 It does provide an opportunity. 975 00:55:14,450 --> 00:55:17,160 But at the same time, I know staff have looked 976 00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:18,320 into 977 00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:20,540 the cost when it comes to the actual operators, 978 00:55:20,540 --> 00:55:22,690 collection trucks coming in and picking all that 979 00:55:22,690 --> 00:55:22,790 up. 980 00:55:22,720 --> 00:55:24,550 And that would be a huge, huge amount. 981 00:55:24,550 --> 00:55:26,370 So this is why this report, 982 00:55:26,370 --> 00:55:28,440 and I would say this is a way moving forward. 983 00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:31,230 like obviously this is not the best of it all 984 00:55:31,230 --> 00:55:32,530 and I would like to see it be better 985 00:55:32,530 --> 00:55:34,220 but we do need some time to figure that out 986 00:55:34,220 --> 00:55:35,920 and I think the first approach would be-- 987 00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:38,160 - Point of order, Mr. Chair. 988 00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:39,620 - Okay, point of order, go ahead. 989 00:55:39,620 --> 00:55:40,940 - I believe the council already made these 990 00:55:40,940 --> 00:55:41,250 comments 991 00:55:41,250 --> 00:55:44,110 in their first round of speaking. 992 00:55:44,110 --> 00:55:45,380 I think we're just getting a little bit redundant 993 00:55:45,380 --> 00:55:46,880 as we're close to a vote. 994 00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:48,440 - Yeah, he has five seconds left. 995 00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:51,000 So if you wanna spend, go ahead. 996 00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:53,540 - I'm just saying I think this bridges us to that 997 00:55:53,540 --> 00:55:53,910 point 998 00:55:53,910 --> 00:55:55,790 and speaking with the provinces, 999 00:55:55,790 --> 00:55:58,500 the first right move to do. 1000 00:55:58,500 --> 00:56:00,880 - Thank you, Councilor. 1001 00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:01,980 I'm not seeing any others. 1002 00:56:01,980 --> 00:56:04,780 I do myself just have two quick questions 1003 00:56:04,780 --> 00:56:08,870 with regards to 210 and 212. 1004 00:56:08,870 --> 00:56:12,030 Just in terms of obviously we're waiting on some 1005 00:56:12,030 --> 00:56:12,980 amendments 1006 00:56:12,980 --> 00:56:15,880 part of this motion for 210 anyways is to give 1007 00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:16,190 staff 1008 00:56:16,190 --> 00:56:19,440 that authority to continue those discussions. 1009 00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:21,500 But even with 212, I'm just wondering, 1010 00:56:21,500 --> 00:56:23,470 are there any cost implications in terms of the 1011 00:56:23,470 --> 00:56:23,830 province 1012 00:56:23,830 --> 00:56:25,260 not having these things ready for us? 1013 00:56:25,260 --> 00:56:27,010 Obviously we have to wait until they send us 1014 00:56:27,010 --> 00:56:27,350 things 1015 00:56:27,350 --> 00:56:28,540 and we'll be given an update. 1016 00:56:28,540 --> 00:56:32,150 but are to 210 if we have any costs that we incur 1017 00:56:32,150 --> 00:56:33,360 because of that. 1018 00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:37,120 And with 212, I mean, we're still waiting for 1019 00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:37,650 information, 1020 00:56:37,650 --> 00:56:39,420 but do we have any indication as to when we get 1021 00:56:39,420 --> 00:56:40,240 more 1022 00:56:40,240 --> 00:56:45,470 details about that? 1023 00:56:45,470 --> 00:56:47,060 - I don't know who on staff wants to crack at 1024 00:56:47,060 --> 00:56:47,340 that, 1025 00:56:47,340 --> 00:56:49,450 but we'll keep someone. 1026 00:56:49,450 --> 00:56:52,550 Go ahead, Mr. Murray. 1027 00:56:52,550 --> 00:56:53,380 - Thank you. 1028 00:56:53,380 --> 00:56:55,840 And through you, Mr. Chair, I'll speak to 2.10 1029 00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:57,120 being the Court Security and Prisoner 1030 00:56:57,120 --> 00:56:58,050 Transportation Program. 1031 00:56:58,050 --> 00:57:02,460 So that is a program that is the responsibility 1032 00:57:02,460 --> 00:57:06,040 and police. It is included in the police budget. 1033 00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:08,900 And this funding is simply flow through funding 1034 00:57:08,900 --> 00:57:12,230 that the city then turns around and provides to 1035 00:57:12,230 --> 00:57:15,260 the London Police Service as an offset to the 1036 00:57:15,260 --> 00:57:15,660 cost 1037 00:57:15,660 --> 00:57:17,550 that they have already budgeted in their budget 1038 00:57:17,550 --> 00:57:21,680 for this program. Okay, and we are in terms of 1039 00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:21,830 the 1040 00:57:21,830 --> 00:57:24,070 other parts of this motion. This is just giving 1041 00:57:24,070 --> 00:57:26,100 the authorization for staff to conclude those 1042 00:57:26,100 --> 00:57:30,040 agreements when we get those amendments, correct? 1043 00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:32,680 That is correct. The approval here is the 1044 00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:35,580 the authorization to execute the agreement 1045 00:57:35,580 --> 00:57:38,440 and then to execute any required financial 1046 00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:38,980 reporting 1047 00:57:38,980 --> 00:57:40,640 under that. 1048 00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:41,470 - Okay, thank you. 1049 00:57:41,470 --> 00:57:44,360 And with regards to 212, just in terms of, 1050 00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:46,060 do we have any indication when we get more 1051 00:57:46,060 --> 00:57:46,540 information 1052 00:57:46,540 --> 00:57:47,730 about the Bio-Ontario Act 1053 00:57:47,730 --> 00:57:53,780 and how that will impact municipalities? 1054 00:57:53,780 --> 00:57:54,640 Go ahead, Ms. Berbon. 1055 00:57:54,640 --> 00:57:55,470 Is that you? 1056 00:57:55,470 --> 00:57:56,300 I don't know, you looked at me, 1057 00:57:56,300 --> 00:57:58,050 so I wasn't sure if that was you or who do we 1058 00:57:58,050 --> 00:57:58,380 have? 1059 00:57:58,380 --> 00:58:00,050 Okay, go ahead. 1060 00:58:00,050 --> 00:58:00,860 - It's through the chair. 1061 00:58:00,860 --> 00:58:05,330 I'll pass that over to Ms. Aurora. 1062 00:58:05,330 --> 00:58:06,530 - Thank you through the chair, yes. 1063 00:58:06,530 --> 00:58:10,010 We will wait for the, we will leverage the train 1064 00:58:10,010 --> 00:58:10,140 ings 1065 00:58:10,140 --> 00:58:12,110 which are available right now. 1066 00:58:12,110 --> 00:58:15,680 We'll be available starting from May 4th till May 1067 00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:16,550 13th 1068 00:58:16,550 --> 00:58:18,070 from the province. 1069 00:58:18,070 --> 00:58:20,180 And then we'll be reporting back to council 1070 00:58:20,180 --> 00:58:23,360 on any other additional resources or changes, 1071 00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:24,770 amendments of the controls. 1072 00:58:24,770 --> 00:58:27,650 We'll have to put it in our procurement process, 1073 00:58:27,650 --> 00:58:31,430 even the designs, changes and how it'll impact 1074 00:58:31,430 --> 00:58:34,020 the complete procurement lifecycle. 1075 00:58:34,020 --> 00:58:34,970 Thank you. 1076 00:58:34,970 --> 00:58:36,870 - Okay, and sorry, just to my earlier question, 1077 00:58:36,870 --> 00:58:39,730 terms of whether any cost implications for that. 1078 00:58:39,730 --> 00:58:40,910 Do we envision any of those yet or 1079 00:58:40,910 --> 00:58:43,210 if the province can eat indication as to us 1080 00:58:43,210 --> 00:58:45,710 having to absorb those? Thank you 1081 00:58:45,710 --> 00:58:48,100 through the chair. Yes there will be cost 1082 00:58:48,100 --> 00:58:50,560 implications in terms of resources as 1083 00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:58,070 well as designing and evaluating the major goods 1084 00:58:58,070 --> 00:58:59,570 reporting requirements from 1085 00:58:59,570 --> 00:59:03,910 the province and total procurement lifecycle 1086 00:59:03,910 --> 00:59:07,100 costing change orders so yes 1087 00:59:07,100 --> 00:59:10,440 there will be some cost implications. 1088 00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:14,200 - And thank you and any indication as to 1089 00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:15,790 whether they will be providing any funding 1090 00:59:15,790 --> 00:59:21,950 or is that something we just absorb? 1091 00:59:21,950 --> 00:59:23,300 - Thank you through the chair. 1092 00:59:23,300 --> 00:59:24,960 There is no indication there will be any 1093 00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:25,650 resources 1094 00:59:25,650 --> 00:59:28,820 to go along other than some of the guidance 1095 00:59:28,820 --> 00:59:31,480 that might come through by Ontario. 1096 00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:32,640 It's still early days. 1097 00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:34,620 It's a little hard for us to estimate 1098 00:59:34,620 --> 00:59:37,760 what the, excuse me, the total cost could be, 1099 00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:40,140 but certainly as we get any information 1100 00:59:40,140 --> 00:59:43,070 will provide reports back to council and 1101 00:59:43,070 --> 00:59:43,460 committee 1102 00:59:43,460 --> 00:59:46,770 as we hopefully get some more details than very 1103 00:59:46,770 --> 00:59:48,510 shortly. 1104 00:59:48,510 --> 00:59:50,660 - Thank you, and I appreciate the responses from 1105 00:59:50,660 --> 00:59:51,380 staff. 1106 00:59:51,380 --> 00:59:52,490 I know we don't have all the details, 1107 00:59:52,490 --> 00:59:53,810 but I still thought it was important that we 1108 00:59:53,810 --> 00:59:54,280 mention that 1109 00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:57,210 just 'cause down the road we'll have more coming 1110 00:59:57,210 --> 00:59:57,660 back to us. 1111 00:59:57,660 --> 00:59:59,140 So thank you for that. 1112 00:59:59,140 --> 01:00:01,160 Again, looking for any other comments. 1113 01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:06,140 This is on items 2.1 to 2.7, 2.10 to 2.12. 1114 01:00:06,140 --> 01:00:09,710 Okay, I'm not seeing any other hands. 1115 01:00:09,710 --> 01:00:22,750 We'll open that for voting. 1116 01:00:22,750 --> 01:00:27,890 closing the vote, motion carries, six to zero. 1117 01:00:27,890 --> 01:00:29,410 - Okay, thank you. 1118 01:00:29,410 --> 01:00:32,280 We do not have scheduled items items for 1119 01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:33,140 direction 1120 01:00:33,140 --> 01:00:34,810 in terms of deferred matters. 1121 01:00:34,810 --> 01:00:36,920 There were the two that were pulled. 1122 01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:39,030 We have 2.8, 2.9. 1123 01:00:39,030 --> 01:00:40,140 We'll just deal with those separately. 1124 01:00:40,140 --> 01:00:42,970 So I'll put 2.8 on the floor, 1125 01:00:42,970 --> 01:00:45,820 looking for a mover and a seconder. 1126 01:00:45,820 --> 01:00:47,130 Councillor Frank, thank you. 1127 01:00:47,130 --> 01:00:47,960 I'll second it. 1128 01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:49,970 So 2.8 is on the floor. 1129 01:00:49,970 --> 01:00:51,270 Going ahead for questions. 1130 01:00:51,270 --> 01:00:52,580 Councillor Stephens, you had this bullet, go 1131 01:00:52,580 --> 01:00:53,620 ahead. 1132 01:00:53,620 --> 01:00:54,950 - Yes, thank you. 1133 01:00:54,950 --> 01:00:57,350 So I did have a couple of questions on this one. 1134 01:00:57,350 --> 01:01:01,770 The contributions to the Reserve Fund, 1135 01:01:01,770 --> 01:01:03,790 that the Social Services Reserve Fund 1136 01:01:03,790 --> 01:01:05,610 and the Affordable Housing Renewal Reserve Fund 1137 01:01:05,610 --> 01:01:06,720 in B and C, 1138 01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:09,060 has this been done before, or is this something 1139 01:01:09,060 --> 01:01:10,830 new? 1140 01:01:10,830 --> 01:01:13,320 - Go ahead, Ms. Murray. 1141 01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:14,240 - Thank you, three, Mr. Chair. 1142 01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:16,680 So these are new, this is the first time 1143 01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:18,600 that you're seeing these. 1144 01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:21,750 And I would characterize these as a function 1145 01:01:21,750 --> 01:01:24,070 of not having the plumbing in place, if you will, 1146 01:01:24,070 --> 01:01:27,540 to be able to actually do these going forward 1147 01:01:27,540 --> 01:01:29,100 at this point. 1148 01:01:29,100 --> 01:01:32,610 So the London Regional Employment Services 1149 01:01:32,610 --> 01:01:36,050 is a fairly new service that the city provides. 1150 01:01:36,050 --> 01:01:40,040 And this is the first year that we have achieved 1151 01:01:40,040 --> 01:01:43,640 the targets for the realization of incentive 1152 01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:44,160 funding. 1153 01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:46,310 So that's the funding here in question and 1154 01:01:46,310 --> 01:01:47,150 recommendation B. 1155 01:01:47,150 --> 01:01:49,570 So this is the first year that we're dealing with 1156 01:01:49,570 --> 01:01:49,950 it. 1157 01:01:49,950 --> 01:01:52,900 The intention is to set that money aside 1158 01:01:52,900 --> 01:01:55,940 to reinvest in the employment system 1159 01:01:55,940 --> 01:01:59,050 and to utilize the social services reserve fund 1160 01:01:59,050 --> 01:02:00,770 in order to do it. 1161 01:02:00,770 --> 01:02:03,850 However, we do not have administrative authority 1162 01:02:03,850 --> 01:02:06,040 to contribute to that reserve fund 1163 01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:07,560 for this purpose as it currently stands. 1164 01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:10,300 So that's why it is included as a separate 1165 01:02:10,300 --> 01:02:10,880 recommendation 1166 01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:12,630 for council's approval. 1167 01:02:12,630 --> 01:02:16,510 Similarly, the properties, 1168 01:02:16,510 --> 01:02:18,910 the affordable housing properties, 1169 01:02:18,910 --> 01:02:22,860 specifically Sylvan in question here in part C. 1170 01:02:22,860 --> 01:02:24,100 These are fairly new properties. 1171 01:02:24,100 --> 01:02:27,570 This is very early on in their lifecycle, 1172 01:02:27,570 --> 01:02:29,560 and this is the first opportunity 1173 01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:31,910 that we've had to contribute a net surplus 1174 01:02:31,910 --> 01:02:35,300 from this property to ultimately reinvested 1175 01:02:35,300 --> 01:02:37,580 in the future lifecycle renewal needs 1176 01:02:37,580 --> 01:02:39,570 of our affordable housing bills. 1177 01:02:39,570 --> 01:02:42,240 So I once again, not something that we have 1178 01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:44,480 the administrative delegated authority 1179 01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:47,100 to do that contribution to that reserve fund 1180 01:02:47,100 --> 01:02:47,990 currently. 1181 01:02:47,990 --> 01:02:50,340 So that's why it is for council's approval 1182 01:02:50,340 --> 01:02:52,780 as part of recommendation C. 1183 01:02:52,780 --> 01:02:54,940 - Okay, follow up, Councilor. 1184 01:02:54,940 --> 01:02:55,760 - Yeah, thank you. 1185 01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:58,060 So are we looking at changing the policies going 1186 01:02:58,060 --> 01:03:00,340 forward? 1187 01:03:00,340 --> 01:03:01,840 - Go ahead, Ms. Mary. 1188 01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:02,990 - Thank you, three, Mr. Chair, yes. 1189 01:03:02,990 --> 01:03:04,890 The intention would be to then, 1190 01:03:04,890 --> 01:03:07,030 as part of our Reserve Fund Housekeeping Annual 1191 01:03:07,030 --> 01:03:07,270 Report, 1192 01:03:07,270 --> 01:03:09,250 to bring forward the necessary changes 1193 01:03:09,250 --> 01:03:11,190 to facilitate this process going forward. 1194 01:03:11,190 --> 01:03:13,400 Should Council approve? 1195 01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:16,330 - Thank you, go ahead, Councilor. 1196 01:03:16,330 --> 01:03:17,160 - Thank you. 1197 01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:19,080 The reason I really struggle with this 1198 01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:20,490 is a couple of years ago, 1199 01:03:20,490 --> 01:03:24,690 when we had property tax increases of eight and 7 1200 01:03:24,690 --> 01:03:25,430 %, 1201 01:03:25,430 --> 01:03:28,990 and we had $50, $60 million surpluses, 1202 01:03:28,990 --> 01:03:33,980 When we as a committee or council tried to say, 1203 01:03:33,980 --> 01:03:36,250 hey, could we use some of this money for other 1204 01:03:36,250 --> 01:03:36,640 things, 1205 01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:39,100 similarly to what's being done here, 1206 01:03:39,100 --> 01:03:42,280 11 and a half million for shelters 1207 01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:44,910 and now a half a million here and quarter of a 1208 01:03:44,910 --> 01:03:46,380 million there, 1209 01:03:46,380 --> 01:03:49,060 we were strongly cautioned against that 1210 01:03:49,060 --> 01:03:51,930 for reasons that are still true today, 1211 01:03:51,930 --> 01:03:53,230 as far as I understand. 1212 01:03:53,230 --> 01:03:56,530 So I'm just wondering, like I said, 1213 01:03:56,530 --> 01:03:58,490 if I go back and watch those meetings 1214 01:03:58,490 --> 01:03:59,630 from a couple of years ago, 1215 01:03:59,630 --> 01:04:03,230 we tried really, really hard to keep some of that 1216 01:04:03,230 --> 01:04:03,550 money 1217 01:04:03,550 --> 01:04:07,500 to address needs that taxpayers have. 1218 01:04:07,500 --> 01:04:10,360 And now in 2026, we are doing just that 1219 01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:12,110 and we're expanding it even more. 1220 01:04:12,110 --> 01:04:15,240 Beyond the shelter things that the mayor did, 1221 01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:17,660 now we're talking about other surpluses 1222 01:04:17,660 --> 01:04:19,880 going into reserve funds. 1223 01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:22,930 And the question would be why this, why not 1224 01:04:22,930 --> 01:04:23,660 garbage? 1225 01:04:23,660 --> 01:04:26,970 Why couldn't the three or $4 million in surplus 1226 01:04:26,970 --> 01:04:28,800 have gone to a garbage reserve fund 1227 01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:31,030 that we could have then used for things related 1228 01:04:31,030 --> 01:04:31,500 to that. 1229 01:04:31,500 --> 01:04:34,050 So can you just help me understand why there's 1230 01:04:34,050 --> 01:04:35,040 this change 1231 01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:36,830 that's happened in the last couple of years 1232 01:04:36,830 --> 01:04:40,110 and how expanded is this going to be 1233 01:04:40,110 --> 01:04:42,420 or could council and the public weigh in 1234 01:04:42,420 --> 01:04:47,150 on other things that they would like to see? 1235 01:04:47,150 --> 01:04:48,900 - Ms. Barbone, Ms. Marie, go ahead. 1236 01:04:48,900 --> 01:04:50,490 - Yeah, no, thank you, and three, Mr. Chair. 1237 01:04:50,490 --> 01:04:52,920 So what I would say is there has been no change. 1238 01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:54,870 This does not represent a change. 1239 01:04:54,870 --> 01:04:57,500 We still, in general terms, have a surplus 1240 01:04:57,500 --> 01:04:58,410 deficit policy 1241 01:04:58,410 --> 01:05:00,870 that guides the allocation of any 1242 01:05:00,870 --> 01:05:03,600 or the disposition of any year-end surplus or 1243 01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:04,390 deficit. 1244 01:05:04,390 --> 01:05:06,970 These are very specific things, 1245 01:05:06,970 --> 01:05:10,280 so as it relates specifically to recommendation B 1246 01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:10,430 , 1247 01:05:10,430 --> 01:05:15,270 I'll emphasize that this is a regional service. 1248 01:05:15,270 --> 01:05:19,190 This is not specifically a London taxpayer- 1249 01:05:19,190 --> 01:05:20,530 specific service. 1250 01:05:20,530 --> 01:05:24,710 This is a service that supports not only London 1251 01:05:24,710 --> 01:05:27,570 and Middlesex, but also Elgin and Oxford as well 1252 01:05:27,570 --> 01:05:29,600 as an entire catchment area. 1253 01:05:29,600 --> 01:05:34,490 and the intention here is to reinvest these funds 1254 01:05:34,490 --> 01:05:36,780 in the overall catchment area. 1255 01:05:36,780 --> 01:05:39,770 So this is not funds that are being sent aside 1256 01:05:39,770 --> 01:05:42,290 to benefit London taxpayers specifically, 1257 01:05:42,290 --> 01:05:44,640 it is to reinvest in the regional system. 1258 01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:49,070 Recommendation C is in keeping with the strategy 1259 01:05:49,070 --> 01:05:50,910 that was articulated by our municipal housing 1260 01:05:50,910 --> 01:05:52,100 development team. 1261 01:05:52,100 --> 01:05:54,540 I believe it was back in December 1262 01:05:54,540 --> 01:05:57,970 with respect to the future plans 1263 01:05:57,970 --> 01:06:01,040 to reinvest any net surplus as it pertains 1264 01:06:01,040 --> 01:06:04,870 to the baseline Thompson and Sylvan properties. 1265 01:06:04,870 --> 01:06:06,830 That report I believe specifically focused 1266 01:06:06,830 --> 01:06:09,620 on baseline primarily, but the intention is the 1267 01:06:09,620 --> 01:06:09,900 same 1268 01:06:09,900 --> 01:06:12,860 for Thompson and Sylvan as well. 1269 01:06:12,860 --> 01:06:16,680 So that we have the funds set aside to down the 1270 01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:17,260 road, 1271 01:06:17,260 --> 01:06:21,510 rehabilitate and renew those specific properties 1272 01:06:21,510 --> 01:06:24,740 when they require renewal. 1273 01:06:24,740 --> 01:06:26,110 - Oh, Councillor. 1274 01:06:26,110 --> 01:06:28,580 - Yeah, I have a lot, but I'll take them offline. 1275 01:06:28,580 --> 01:06:32,160 - On page 81, it talks about the total forecasted 1276 01:06:32,160 --> 01:06:34,460 expenditures continue to exceed funding 1277 01:06:34,460 --> 01:06:35,150 allocations 1278 01:06:35,150 --> 01:06:38,730 beyond 2027, and that's with regards to social 1279 01:06:38,730 --> 01:06:39,410 services. 1280 01:06:39,410 --> 01:06:41,560 And I just wondered if we could know more about 1281 01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:41,800 that, 1282 01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:45,100 or will there be a report coming as March 2027 1283 01:06:45,100 --> 01:06:48,400 as the only year away? 1284 01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:49,300 - Go ahead, Ms. Murray. 1285 01:06:49,300 --> 01:06:50,140 - Through you, Mr. Chair. 1286 01:06:50,140 --> 01:06:53,620 So I will refer you to the same page, in fact, 1287 01:06:53,620 --> 01:06:57,800 right before that, you're a little bit up 1288 01:06:57,800 --> 01:07:00,470 from that paragraph that you're referring to. 1289 01:07:00,470 --> 01:07:03,180 Our intention is to, as part of our mid-year 1290 01:07:03,180 --> 01:07:04,970 budget monitoring report that we'll be coming 1291 01:07:04,970 --> 01:07:06,320 later this year 1292 01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:09,270 to provide some further detail and quantification 1293 01:07:09,270 --> 01:07:11,910 where we can have some of those pressures 1294 01:07:11,910 --> 01:07:14,390 and kind of give you a, 1295 01:07:14,390 --> 01:07:15,960 or attempt to give you a more fulsome picture 1296 01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:17,960 of what those pressures look like 1297 01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:20,820 over the months and years ahead. 1298 01:07:20,820 --> 01:07:21,660 Follow-up, Councillor? 1299 01:07:21,660 --> 01:07:22,930 - Yeah, thank you and that's great. 1300 01:07:22,930 --> 01:07:24,570 I know we talked about that and I'm looking 1301 01:07:24,570 --> 01:07:25,160 forward to it, 1302 01:07:25,160 --> 01:07:28,560 but we've got requests coming to council next 1303 01:07:28,560 --> 01:07:28,900 week 1304 01:07:28,900 --> 01:07:33,000 terms of 20,000 a month and 85,000 a month for 1305 01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:36,140 outreach and daytime services when we don't know 1306 01:07:36,140 --> 01:07:39,490 if we're going to have shortfalls in shelter beds 1307 01:07:39,490 --> 01:07:42,240 or you know that kind of thing. So I feel like 1308 01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:44,500 it's a little bit more urgent when I read 1309 01:07:44,500 --> 01:07:46,700 something like this in a report and we're going 1310 01:07:46,700 --> 01:07:47,010 to make 1311 01:07:47,010 --> 01:07:51,460 funding decisions next week. The other question 1312 01:07:51,460 --> 01:07:55,940 is on the financial summary on page 82, we get 1313 01:07:55,940 --> 01:07:59,220 very high level amounts like financial management 1314 01:07:59,220 --> 01:08:03,760 as a $203 million a year budget corporate social 1315 01:08:03,760 --> 01:08:07,050 community services is 344 million corporate 1316 01:08:07,050 --> 01:08:10,500 services 80 million and I don't recall ever 1317 01:08:10,500 --> 01:08:11,210 seeing a line 1318 01:08:11,210 --> 01:08:15,370 by line for any of those areas like I can see for 1319 01:08:15,370 --> 01:08:18,610 police or library or any of the other ones that 1320 01:08:18,610 --> 01:08:20,750 have statements so when was the last time the 1321 01:08:20,750 --> 01:08:22,980 public and council got to see a line by line for 1322 01:08:22,980 --> 01:08:27,820 any of these. I don't know. Who wants to take 1323 01:08:27,820 --> 01:08:33,000 that one, Mr. Murray? Three, Mr. Chair. So the 1324 01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:34,120 results as 1325 01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:36,560 it relates to the monitoring positions have 1326 01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:38,850 consistently been reported at the service 1327 01:08:38,850 --> 01:08:39,210 grouping 1328 01:08:39,210 --> 01:08:43,340 level, which is what you see here. The next level 1329 01:08:43,340 --> 01:08:47,730 down, the service level, that budget information 1330 01:08:47,730 --> 01:08:50,870 is reported and available online through our 1331 01:08:50,870 --> 01:08:54,030 budget documents and our open data portal. 1332 01:08:55,240 --> 01:08:58,510 However, the monitoring has been consistently 1333 01:08:58,510 --> 01:09:00,720 kept at the service grouping level. 1334 01:09:00,720 --> 01:09:03,610 Followed, Councillor? Yeah, thank you. So the 1335 01:09:03,610 --> 01:09:05,530 budgets that are available, does it all 1336 01:09:05,530 --> 01:09:07,660 also have the actuals? Do we get to see the var 1337 01:09:07,660 --> 01:09:08,770 iances line by line? 1338 01:09:08,770 --> 01:09:13,170 Through you, Mr. Chair, no, it is strictly the 1339 01:09:13,170 --> 01:09:15,270 budgets. It does not include actuals. 1340 01:09:15,270 --> 01:09:18,390 Hey, follow-up? Yeah, and so I guess my question 1341 01:09:18,390 --> 01:09:20,130 was, when was the last time the 1342 01:09:20,130 --> 01:09:22,380 public or council got to see a line by line 1343 01:09:22,380 --> 01:09:28,970 variance for any of these big departments? 1344 01:09:28,970 --> 01:09:33,620 Thank you, Mr. Chair, I'm going back many, many 1345 01:09:33,620 --> 01:09:35,210 years here. 1346 01:09:35,210 --> 01:09:40,060 The size of the budget binders once upon a time 1347 01:09:40,060 --> 01:09:41,950 did have that information. 1348 01:09:41,950 --> 01:09:45,270 As the City of London has continued to grow, the 1349 01:09:45,270 --> 01:09:47,940 size of the line by lines has also grown. 1350 01:09:47,940 --> 01:09:50,820 So the number of lines are beyond the thousands 1351 01:09:50,820 --> 01:09:52,930 and thousands of information. 1352 01:09:52,930 --> 01:09:56,060 That's why it's summarized because the actual 1353 01:09:56,060 --> 01:09:57,920 line by line and the level of detail 1354 01:09:57,920 --> 01:10:01,030 detail is so sufficiently low in our financial 1355 01:10:01,030 --> 01:10:03,500 statement would be very challenging to reproduce 1356 01:10:03,500 --> 01:10:06,150 and be very challenging to provide any summary 1357 01:10:06,150 --> 01:10:08,770 information to the public that would be useful 1358 01:10:08,770 --> 01:10:11,510 because it would be too low a detail and have 1359 01:10:11,510 --> 01:10:14,440 titles that would not provide any information. 1360 01:10:14,440 --> 01:10:18,990 So certainly, at least since well before 2015, 1361 01:10:18,990 --> 01:10:22,110 the information has been at a consolidated level 1362 01:10:22,110 --> 01:10:25,160 to be able to make it useful for the public and 1363 01:10:25,160 --> 01:10:28,340 for the council to have detailed information 1364 01:10:28,340 --> 01:10:30,400 about. 1365 01:10:30,400 --> 01:10:31,350 >> Okay. 1366 01:10:31,350 --> 01:10:33,570 Thank you. 1367 01:10:33,570 --> 01:10:34,550 And a follow-up, Councillor? 1368 01:10:34,550 --> 01:10:35,530 >> Yeah. 1369 01:10:35,530 --> 01:10:36,500 I hear you. 1370 01:10:36,500 --> 01:10:37,950 And at the same time, we've consolidated to one 1371 01:10:37,950 --> 01:10:39,150 line, right? 1372 01:10:39,150 --> 01:10:41,530 So we don't even know, I'll criticize other 1373 01:10:41,530 --> 01:10:43,630 things and say, how much is wages? 1374 01:10:43,630 --> 01:10:45,250 How much is overhead? 1375 01:10:45,250 --> 01:10:46,920 How, you know, what are the variances? 1376 01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:49,060 And we don't even have that for our own 1377 01:10:49,060 --> 01:10:50,420 departments. 1378 01:10:50,420 --> 01:10:53,030 And I've seen, I've looked at other councils and 1379 01:10:53,030 --> 01:10:55,320 they're receiving like very, very like 1380 01:10:55,320 --> 01:10:59,680 actual GL accounts, every single account. 1381 01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:02,700 I question whether the bigger the city gets, the 1382 01:11:02,700 --> 01:11:05,250 more line numbers there really are versus 1383 01:11:05,250 --> 01:11:06,240 the smaller ones. 1384 01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:09,030 And maybe that's true, but usually the numbers 1385 01:11:09,030 --> 01:11:12,070 just get bigger in the business world anyway. 1386 01:11:12,070 --> 01:11:14,060 And so I think there's going to be an opportunity 1387 01:11:14,060 --> 01:11:14,890 going forward. 1388 01:11:14,890 --> 01:11:17,620 There's a request for more transparency from the 1389 01:11:17,620 --> 01:11:18,260 public. 1390 01:11:18,260 --> 01:11:21,360 And I think, you know, it starts here at home for 1391 01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:24,800 us to say, do we even know what the 1392 01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:27,980 variances are within the departments that we 1393 01:11:27,980 --> 01:11:30,160 provide oversight here for? 1394 01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:31,240 So -- 1395 01:11:31,240 --> 01:11:32,840 Council, you have 30 seconds. 1396 01:11:32,840 --> 01:11:33,840 Yeah. 1397 01:11:33,840 --> 01:11:36,120 It's an issue, I believe, and I think that there 1398 01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:37,980 's -- I'm going to look into how we can 1399 01:11:37,980 --> 01:11:39,530 request more information. 1400 01:11:39,530 --> 01:11:41,240 The same thing happened with the reserve funds. 1401 01:11:41,240 --> 01:11:43,440 We used to see the ins and outs, and that hasn't 1402 01:11:43,440 --> 01:11:45,440 been provided in a long time either. 1403 01:11:45,440 --> 01:11:48,370 So our tax rates are going up, up, up and what 1404 01:11:48,370 --> 01:11:50,130 the public gets to see is going down, 1405 01:11:50,130 --> 01:11:53,350 down, down. 1406 01:11:53,350 --> 01:11:54,300 Okay. 1407 01:11:54,300 --> 01:11:55,800 Thank you. 1408 01:11:55,800 --> 01:11:56,750 You're at time. 1409 01:11:56,750 --> 01:11:58,840 Looking for other speakers, for committee members 1410 01:11:58,840 --> 01:11:58,990 . 1411 01:11:58,990 --> 01:12:00,160 Okay. 1412 01:12:00,160 --> 01:12:01,780 I'm not seeing any, but I'll do Councillor Trozzo 1413 01:12:01,780 --> 01:12:02,720 then Councillor. 1414 01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:09,460 Just really briefly, and this is hard, but I have 1415 01:12:09,460 --> 01:12:11,710 to, I'm looking at, I'm looking at 1416 01:12:11,710 --> 01:12:15,910 the Municipal Act, section 224 that talks about 1417 01:12:15,910 --> 01:12:18,250 the role of Councillors. 1418 01:12:18,250 --> 01:12:20,660 And while I am not directing this as any 1419 01:12:20,660 --> 01:12:23,370 criticism towards anything that's on today's 1420 01:12:23,370 --> 01:12:23,760 agenda, 1421 01:12:23,760 --> 01:12:26,490 and I'm not directing this to criticisms of any 1422 01:12:26,490 --> 01:12:30,400 program or any member of civic administration, 1423 01:12:30,400 --> 01:12:32,780 but I think Councillor Stevenson is raising a 1424 01:12:32,780 --> 01:12:34,200 good point. 1425 01:12:34,200 --> 01:12:36,680 It's a broader point that I think, if not this 1426 01:12:36,680 --> 01:12:39,170 council, perhaps the next council is going 1427 01:12:39,170 --> 01:12:41,620 to have to look at in a little bit more detail, 1428 01:12:41,620 --> 01:12:43,960 because when we're told that the complexity 1429 01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:48,280 of the problem is too great to share because it 1430 01:12:48,280 --> 01:12:52,160 would be thousands and thousands of lines. 1431 01:12:52,160 --> 01:12:53,160 I don't think that's right. 1432 01:12:53,160 --> 01:12:55,700 I think we have to be given the opportunity to 1433 01:12:55,700 --> 01:12:57,330 see that level of detail. 1434 01:12:57,330 --> 01:12:59,630 I'm going to leave it there right now. 1435 01:12:59,630 --> 01:13:02,810 I'm certainly not going to raise this at council 1436 01:13:02,810 --> 01:13:04,990 or make any kind of amendment. 1437 01:13:04,990 --> 01:13:07,790 But we always have to go back to that section of 1438 01:13:07,790 --> 01:13:10,130 the Municipal Act to understand what our 1439 01:13:10,130 --> 01:13:14,780 special responsibilities are as a council. 1440 01:13:14,780 --> 01:13:18,740 And again, I mean, no criticism, no disrespect 1441 01:13:18,740 --> 01:13:20,840 of anything that the staff has put forward. 1442 01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:23,450 This is just a very conceptual item for the 1443 01:13:23,450 --> 01:13:23,970 future. 1444 01:13:23,970 --> 01:13:25,680 Thank you. 1445 01:13:25,680 --> 01:13:29,350 - Okay, thank you, Councilor Perma, go ahead. 1446 01:13:29,350 --> 01:13:31,000 - Thank you, I would like to start by making a 1447 01:13:31,000 --> 01:13:31,460 comment 1448 01:13:31,460 --> 01:13:34,240 and congratulations to the entire RBC place 1449 01:13:34,240 --> 01:13:36,940 for a great financial year last year. 1450 01:13:36,940 --> 01:13:38,490 We do have a request in front of us, 1451 01:13:38,490 --> 01:13:41,660 the how to deal with their operating surplus, 1452 01:13:41,660 --> 01:13:44,810 but I just wanna say that even though we are 1453 01:13:44,810 --> 01:13:45,070 going 1454 01:13:45,070 --> 01:13:46,690 through the very challenging times this 1455 01:13:46,690 --> 01:13:47,520 organization 1456 01:13:47,520 --> 01:13:50,850 actually recorded the highest revenue 1457 01:13:50,850 --> 01:13:54,890 during the history of this convention center. 1458 01:13:54,890 --> 01:13:57,160 So congratulations for that. 1459 01:13:57,160 --> 01:13:58,400 I do have a question. 1460 01:13:58,400 --> 01:14:01,190 And when I look at the surpluses last year 1461 01:14:01,190 --> 01:14:03,780 and this year last year financial management 1462 01:14:03,780 --> 01:14:08,080 was the highest $28.8 million not this year 1463 01:14:08,080 --> 01:14:09,190 or the amounts are not there. 1464 01:14:09,190 --> 01:14:12,100 And my question was when I look at this last year 1465 01:14:12,100 --> 01:14:12,620 financial 1466 01:14:12,620 --> 01:14:15,940 management due to delay in property reassessment 1467 01:14:15,940 --> 01:14:16,450 resulting 1468 01:14:16,450 --> 01:14:22,060 in lower appeals, of course, taxation, personal 1469 01:14:22,060 --> 01:14:22,790 contingency 1470 01:14:22,790 --> 01:14:23,680 savings. 1471 01:14:23,680 --> 01:14:24,680 My question is this. 1472 01:14:24,680 --> 01:14:26,850 In this list, and there are a few other ones, 1473 01:14:26,850 --> 01:14:29,220 there's no doubt that there have been changes. 1474 01:14:29,220 --> 01:14:32,010 We know interest rate has come down, et cetera. 1475 01:14:32,010 --> 01:14:35,050 But if you look at these items, aren't these 1476 01:14:35,050 --> 01:14:36,030 items still some 1477 01:14:36,030 --> 01:14:36,820 of them valid? 1478 01:14:36,820 --> 01:14:40,170 And I understand they are not $28.8 million. 1479 01:14:40,170 --> 01:14:42,720 but would they be in this list as well 1480 01:14:42,720 --> 01:14:48,210 with some solid amount? 1481 01:14:48,210 --> 01:14:50,760 - Mr. Murray. 1482 01:14:50,760 --> 01:14:51,670 - Thank you, three, Mr. Chair. 1483 01:14:51,670 --> 01:14:54,200 So I think what we saw last year 1484 01:14:54,200 --> 01:14:55,340 and what we had noted in fact, 1485 01:14:55,340 --> 01:14:57,200 as part of last year's results, 1486 01:14:57,200 --> 01:15:02,420 were a number of one-time kind of unusual amounts 1487 01:15:02,420 --> 01:15:05,860 that drove up last year's surplus. 1488 01:15:05,860 --> 01:15:10,730 You spoke specifically to the provision 1489 01:15:10,730 --> 01:15:13,270 for uncollectable taxes and tax appeals. 1490 01:15:13,270 --> 01:15:17,340 That was an example of a fairly significant 1491 01:15:17,340 --> 01:15:18,670 contributor 1492 01:15:18,670 --> 01:15:21,090 last year to the surplus in this area. 1493 01:15:21,090 --> 01:15:24,620 That was more so one time in nature. 1494 01:15:24,620 --> 01:15:28,050 It's not something that we would expect to see 1495 01:15:28,050 --> 01:15:30,950 and certainly not in that magnitude every year 1496 01:15:30,950 --> 01:15:33,670 and that certainly has played out this year as 1497 01:15:33,670 --> 01:15:34,170 well. 1498 01:15:34,170 --> 01:15:37,830 So some of those factors still can play in, 1499 01:15:37,830 --> 01:15:41,400 but I think last year there were some unusually 1500 01:15:41,400 --> 01:15:42,160 large 1501 01:15:42,160 --> 01:15:45,280 one-time surpluses that contributed to last year 1502 01:15:45,280 --> 01:15:45,420 's 1503 01:15:45,420 --> 01:15:48,140 overall surpluses. 1504 01:15:48,140 --> 01:15:49,880 - Follow-up, Councillor. 1505 01:15:49,880 --> 01:15:51,310 - Okay, thank you for that. 1506 01:15:51,310 --> 01:15:54,800 I will end the 2.8 by make a comment. 1507 01:15:54,800 --> 01:15:57,330 You know, the Council approved surpluses deficit 1508 01:15:57,330 --> 01:15:58,010 policy. 1509 01:15:58,010 --> 01:16:00,370 It was actually done even before our Council did 1510 01:16:00,370 --> 01:16:00,750 one. 1511 01:16:00,750 --> 01:16:03,000 I never agreed with. 1512 01:16:03,000 --> 01:16:05,510 I honestly believe that we should have it open 1513 01:16:05,510 --> 01:16:07,270 every year is totally different. 1514 01:16:07,270 --> 01:16:09,850 And I totally believe that we would still take 1515 01:16:09,850 --> 01:16:10,740 very seriously 1516 01:16:10,740 --> 01:16:12,010 the staff's recommendation. 1517 01:16:12,010 --> 01:16:14,480 I believe we are all very responsible 1518 01:16:14,480 --> 01:16:16,400 and therefore we wouldn't wanna jeopardize 1519 01:16:16,400 --> 01:16:18,030 the Moody's rating either. 1520 01:16:18,030 --> 01:16:19,630 But again, every year is different 1521 01:16:19,630 --> 01:16:22,940 and I think the council should have the ability 1522 01:16:22,940 --> 01:16:25,720 based on the needs which every year are different 1523 01:16:25,720 --> 01:16:25,820 . 1524 01:16:25,730 --> 01:16:27,680 We know how fast the world is changing 1525 01:16:27,680 --> 01:16:30,390 and we can anticipate even what's next week 1526 01:16:30,390 --> 01:16:31,990 that there should be a flexibility for the 1527 01:16:31,990 --> 01:16:32,710 councilors. 1528 01:16:32,710 --> 01:16:33,940 Thank you. 1529 01:16:33,940 --> 01:16:35,380 No more questions or comments? 1530 01:16:35,380 --> 01:16:36,830 - Okay, thank you, Councillor. 1531 01:16:36,830 --> 01:16:39,800 Looking for any questions or comments on 2.8. 1532 01:16:39,800 --> 01:16:41,420 Okay, not seeing any online. 1533 01:16:41,420 --> 01:16:53,090 We'll open this for voting. 1534 01:16:53,090 --> 01:16:59,110 closing the vote, motion carries five to one. 1535 01:16:59,110 --> 01:17:01,630 - Okay, we are on 2.9. 1536 01:17:01,630 --> 01:17:03,480 This is the 2025 year in capital budget 1537 01:17:03,480 --> 01:17:04,810 monitoring report, 1538 01:17:04,810 --> 01:17:12,020 looking for a mover and seconder. 1539 01:17:12,020 --> 01:17:13,870 Thank you, Councillor Frank, I'll second it. 1540 01:17:13,870 --> 01:17:18,820 Okay, that's on the floor, questions for 2.9. 1541 01:17:18,820 --> 01:17:21,910 Go ahead, Councillor Stevens. 1542 01:17:21,910 --> 01:17:23,060 - Yeah, thank you. 1543 01:17:23,060 --> 01:17:27,280 So on page 27, it talks about the 2025 debt level 1544 01:17:27,280 --> 01:17:27,990 in table eight. 1545 01:17:27,990 --> 01:17:33,280 And it says the total tax supported debt in, 1546 01:17:33,280 --> 01:17:37,830 As of the end of 2024, it was 118 million. 1547 01:17:37,830 --> 01:17:43,040 And at the end of 2025, it was 137 million 1548 01:17:43,040 --> 01:17:47,180 with authorized debt of 747 million 1549 01:17:47,180 --> 01:17:50,400 with a total potential of 884 million. 1550 01:17:50,400 --> 01:17:52,540 I just wondered if staff could talk more about 1551 01:17:52,540 --> 01:17:52,820 that 1552 01:17:52,820 --> 01:17:54,410 and the impacts that that's gonna have 1553 01:17:54,410 --> 01:17:56,990 on debt servicing levels and when those impacts 1554 01:17:56,990 --> 01:17:59,090 will start. 1555 01:17:59,090 --> 01:18:01,260 - Mr. Murray, go ahead. 1556 01:18:01,260 --> 01:18:02,220 - Thank you, three, Mr. Chair. 1557 01:18:02,220 --> 01:18:06,440 So yes, the table here in question shows the debt 1558 01:18:06,440 --> 01:18:06,880 levels 1559 01:18:06,880 --> 01:18:09,430 as of last year, what has been issued and retired 1560 01:18:09,430 --> 01:18:11,200 in 2025, 1561 01:18:11,200 --> 01:18:14,990 leaving a balance outstanding as of 2025. 1562 01:18:14,990 --> 01:18:19,660 It also shows the authorized debt as of 2025 as 1563 01:18:19,660 --> 01:18:19,970 well, 1564 01:18:19,970 --> 01:18:24,370 authorized debt being debt that has been approved 1565 01:18:24,370 --> 01:18:29,430 through the budget for capital projects. 1566 01:18:29,430 --> 01:18:31,130 That has not yet been issued but has been 1567 01:18:31,130 --> 01:18:31,520 approved 1568 01:18:31,520 --> 01:18:34,400 needs to be factored in and into our projections 1569 01:18:34,400 --> 01:18:35,460 in terms of debt levels and 1570 01:18:35,460 --> 01:18:38,190 debt servicing costs. So that when you add that 1571 01:18:38,190 --> 01:18:39,330 to what has actually been 1572 01:18:39,330 --> 01:18:42,250 issued reflects the what we call the total 1573 01:18:42,250 --> 01:18:44,620 potential debt that is outstanding. 1574 01:18:44,620 --> 01:18:48,970 This is consistent and in line with what we 1575 01:18:48,970 --> 01:18:53,860 reported as part of the 2026 budget 1576 01:18:53,860 --> 01:18:56,910 update back in the fall so in that debt section 1577 01:18:56,910 --> 01:18:59,600 of that budget we provided some 1578 01:18:59,600 --> 01:19:04,690 forecasts in terms of when we expect that debt to 1579 01:19:04,690 --> 01:19:07,300 be issued, as well as the resulting impact 1580 01:19:07,300 --> 01:19:10,770 on debt servicing costs out over the next 10-year 1581 01:19:10,770 --> 01:19:13,910 period, certainly based on the approvals, 1582 01:19:13,910 --> 01:19:16,980 the approved investments that Council has made at 1583 01:19:16,980 --> 01:19:19,180 this point through the multi-year 1584 01:19:19,180 --> 01:19:23,720 budget. And since then, we do expect debt to ramp 1585 01:19:23,720 --> 01:19:28,300 up over the years ahead, and we have 1586 01:19:28,300 --> 01:19:31,240 incorporated that in our projections and we do 1587 01:19:31,240 --> 01:19:32,530 update those projections every 1588 01:19:32,530 --> 01:19:35,160 year to kind of reflect where we are with 1589 01:19:35,160 --> 01:19:37,640 projects and how we anticipate them 1590 01:19:37,640 --> 01:19:39,870 trending and when we might get around to issuing 1591 01:19:39,870 --> 01:19:43,520 them that I will also mention 1592 01:19:43,520 --> 01:19:46,790 that we you know through our various financial 1593 01:19:46,790 --> 01:19:48,410 policies whether it be the 1594 01:19:48,410 --> 01:19:51,790 surplus deficit policy or the assessment growth 1595 01:19:51,790 --> 01:19:54,070 policy for example we have the 1596 01:19:54,070 --> 01:19:58,270 policy mechanisms in place that allow us to do 1597 01:19:58,270 --> 01:20:00,850 debt substitution, which is effectively 1598 01:20:00,850 --> 01:20:04,230 allowing us to chip away at that authorized but 1599 01:20:04,230 --> 01:20:07,510 unissued debt figure, basically avoiding 1600 01:20:07,510 --> 01:20:10,610 that authorized debt, avoiding having to issue it 1601 01:20:10,610 --> 01:20:13,060 and actually have it come to reality. 1602 01:20:13,060 --> 01:20:16,660 So that is the strategy we use to avoid having to 1603 01:20:16,660 --> 01:20:20,760 see this debt, this authorized debt materialized 1604 01:20:20,760 --> 01:20:25,100 and avoid those debt servicing costs into the 1605 01:20:25,100 --> 01:20:25,470 future. 1606 01:20:25,470 --> 01:20:28,750 So this is why we continue to advocate 1607 01:20:28,750 --> 01:20:31,700 for the importance of those debt substitution 1608 01:20:31,700 --> 01:20:32,260 policies 1609 01:20:32,260 --> 01:20:35,090 that we have in place that have successfully 1610 01:20:35,090 --> 01:20:38,490 allowed us to avoid, I believe it's a little bit 1611 01:20:38,490 --> 01:20:43,550 north of $100 million going back now to 2016. 1612 01:20:43,550 --> 01:20:45,430 Thank you. 1613 01:20:45,430 --> 01:20:47,280 - Great, thank you, follow up Council. 1614 01:20:47,280 --> 01:20:49,360 - Yeah, no thank you, that's helpful. 1615 01:20:49,360 --> 01:20:52,870 I guess I just see that ability to reduce the 1616 01:20:52,870 --> 01:20:53,180 debt 1617 01:20:53,180 --> 01:20:56,500 going forward decreasing as we change our 1618 01:20:56,500 --> 01:20:56,960 policies 1619 01:20:56,960 --> 01:20:59,860 as we have and start using the surplus for other 1620 01:20:59,860 --> 01:21:00,240 things 1621 01:21:00,240 --> 01:21:03,820 because we only have five million left this year. 1622 01:21:03,820 --> 01:21:08,580 The other thing I wondered is on page 101, 1623 01:21:08,580 --> 01:21:11,550 which is Appendix A, the Capital Budget Activity, 1624 01:21:11,550 --> 01:21:14,260 when it says budget adjustments in the last 1625 01:21:14,260 --> 01:21:14,830 column, 1626 01:21:14,830 --> 01:21:17,970 are those positive numbers increases to the 1627 01:21:17,970 --> 01:21:20,270 budget? 1628 01:21:20,270 --> 01:21:21,940 - Go ahead, Ms. Ray. 1629 01:21:21,940 --> 01:21:22,760 - Thank you, three, Mr. Chair. 1630 01:21:22,760 --> 01:21:25,370 Yes, those would be budget increases 1631 01:21:25,370 --> 01:21:29,970 where budget either has not existed before. 1632 01:21:29,970 --> 01:21:34,040 So, you know, for example, I would refer you 1633 01:21:34,040 --> 01:21:37,650 to source of financing number 25136, 1634 01:21:37,650 --> 01:21:40,440 which is the first one on the second page of that 1635 01:21:40,440 --> 01:21:41,020 table. 1636 01:21:41,020 --> 01:21:43,450 That's the replacement of STEAM services. 1637 01:21:43,450 --> 01:21:46,780 That's an example of one where there was no 1638 01:21:46,780 --> 01:21:47,110 budget 1639 01:21:47,110 --> 01:21:48,970 at that point in time for that initiative. 1640 01:21:48,970 --> 01:21:53,610 So a budget has been created to facilitate 1641 01:21:53,610 --> 01:21:56,590 that procurement in question. 1642 01:21:56,590 --> 01:21:59,620 Some of these others are examples where the 1643 01:21:59,620 --> 01:22:00,040 budget 1644 01:22:00,040 --> 01:22:02,260 in place has been insufficient 1645 01:22:02,260 --> 01:22:05,160 and additional budget has been added 1646 01:22:05,160 --> 01:22:06,530 to that capital project through 1647 01:22:06,530 --> 01:22:10,240 that associated source of financing. 1648 01:22:10,240 --> 01:22:11,070 - Paul Hope Councilor. 1649 01:22:11,070 --> 01:22:12,100 - Yeah, thank you very much. 1650 01:22:12,100 --> 01:22:15,130 Yeah, and I noticed like one of the first ones on 1651 01:22:15,130 --> 01:22:15,470 here, 1652 01:22:15,470 --> 01:22:19,550 two five zero zero two I think it's the east link 1653 01:22:19,550 --> 01:22:22,630 phase four twenty nine million 1654 01:22:22,630 --> 01:22:25,310 dollar budget with a budget increase of two 1655 01:22:25,310 --> 01:22:29,590 million I don't see any budget 1656 01:22:29,590 --> 01:22:32,010 decreases so with those show here are we only 1657 01:22:32,010 --> 01:22:34,720 reporting increases go ahead 1658 01:22:34,720 --> 01:22:38,330 story thank you through you mr. Chair so 1659 01:22:38,330 --> 01:22:41,460 typically this is what you see here 1660 01:22:41,460 --> 01:22:43,800 are the sources of financing that have been 1661 01:22:43,800 --> 01:22:45,740 awarded that facilitate the actual 1662 01:22:45,740 --> 01:22:50,860 award of tenders. Typically, what happens is we 1663 01:22:50,860 --> 01:22:53,560 're either within budget to award the 1664 01:22:53,560 --> 01:22:55,710 tender and there's no additional funding required 1665 01:22:55,710 --> 01:22:57,620 or there is an additional funding requirement 1666 01:22:57,620 --> 01:23:01,720 that is required in order to proceed. As it per 1667 01:23:01,720 --> 01:23:05,180 tains to budget reductions or releases, 1668 01:23:05,180 --> 01:23:07,700 this very report is in fact the mechanism to 1669 01:23:07,700 --> 01:23:10,690 reduce or release capital budgets as there 1670 01:23:10,690 --> 01:23:13,450 is surplus in those capital budgets. They get 1671 01:23:13,450 --> 01:23:15,870 released through the semi-annual capital 1672 01:23:15,870 --> 01:23:19,690 budget monitoring report. 1673 01:23:19,690 --> 01:23:21,620 >> Thank you, that's great, that's all for now. 1674 01:23:21,620 --> 01:23:24,740 >> Okay, looking to other committee members. 1675 01:23:24,740 --> 01:23:27,680 Not seeing any online, go ahead, Councillor Perot 1676 01:23:27,680 --> 01:23:27,780 . 1677 01:23:27,680 --> 01:23:30,720 >> Thank you, Mr. Chair, to the staff last year. 1678 01:23:30,720 --> 01:23:35,550 We had this column graph, which was forecasted 1679 01:23:35,550 --> 01:23:36,700 tax-supported debt levels. 1680 01:23:36,700 --> 01:23:40,210 It was this one, and I know this year I did not 1681 01:23:40,210 --> 01:23:40,680 find it, 1682 01:23:40,680 --> 01:23:43,670 and I found it really very useful last year. 1683 01:23:43,670 --> 01:23:47,780 And my question is, if it was omitted because it 1684 01:23:47,780 --> 01:23:48,650 's identically, 1685 01:23:48,650 --> 01:23:50,880 even though I don't believe it is identical, 1686 01:23:50,880 --> 01:23:53,610 but if it's not, will we be able to still receive 1687 01:23:53,610 --> 01:23:53,710 it 1688 01:23:53,670 --> 01:23:54,570 before the council? 1689 01:23:54,570 --> 01:23:56,720 Thank you. 1690 01:23:56,720 --> 01:23:57,840 - Go ahead, Mr. Mayor. 1691 01:23:57,840 --> 01:23:58,760 - Thank you, three Mr. Chair. 1692 01:23:58,760 --> 01:24:01,860 I'll refer you to the 2026 budget update document 1693 01:24:01,860 --> 01:24:01,960 , 1694 01:24:01,860 --> 01:24:02,970 which includes that graph. 1695 01:24:02,970 --> 01:24:05,190 It's the most recent iteration. 1696 01:24:05,190 --> 01:24:07,530 So if you go to the budget document that's 1697 01:24:07,530 --> 01:24:07,830 available 1698 01:24:07,830 --> 01:24:09,600 on our website, you'll find those very graphs 1699 01:24:09,600 --> 01:24:11,550 with the latest projections that we have. 1700 01:24:11,550 --> 01:24:13,370 - Thank you. 1701 01:24:13,370 --> 01:24:14,250 - Follow-up, Councilor. 1702 01:24:14,250 --> 01:24:15,280 - So thank you to the latest 1703 01:24:15,280 --> 01:24:19,730 and therefore most current ones, correct? 1704 01:24:19,730 --> 01:24:20,750 - That's correct. 1705 01:24:20,750 --> 01:24:22,190 - Okay, thank you for that. 1706 01:24:22,190 --> 01:24:26,250 And the second one's for the chair to the staff. 1707 01:24:26,250 --> 01:24:27,700 The capital source of financing 1708 01:24:27,700 --> 01:24:29,900 sank your diagram by classification. 1709 01:24:29,900 --> 01:24:33,600 When I compared it, it's identical last two years 1710 01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:33,700 . 1711 01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:36,390 Is it still valid that really with any changes, 1712 01:24:36,390 --> 01:24:38,670 it still will be very valid, identical to last 1713 01:24:38,670 --> 01:24:39,090 year? 1714 01:24:39,090 --> 01:24:40,530 Thank you. 1715 01:24:40,530 --> 01:24:42,290 - Go ahead, Mr. Mayor. 1716 01:24:42,290 --> 01:24:43,120 - Thank you. 1717 01:24:43,120 --> 01:24:43,950 Three, Mr. Chair. 1718 01:24:43,950 --> 01:24:45,850 I would say that this doesn't tend 1719 01:24:45,850 --> 01:24:48,530 to fluctuate very significantly. 1720 01:24:48,530 --> 01:24:53,170 This is kind of based on a longer term kind of 1721 01:24:53,170 --> 01:24:53,400 view. 1722 01:24:53,400 --> 01:24:57,300 And this is in fact based on the life-to-date 1723 01:24:57,300 --> 01:24:58,270 capital budget. 1724 01:24:58,270 --> 01:25:01,000 So this is the $4.4 billion of existing capital 1725 01:25:01,000 --> 01:25:01,660 projects. 1726 01:25:01,660 --> 01:25:05,610 So I would not expect it to change or to deviate 1727 01:25:05,610 --> 01:25:06,280 very quickly. 1728 01:25:06,280 --> 01:25:09,400 It tends to be fairly static, only changing as 1729 01:25:09,400 --> 01:25:12,380 each year more and more capital projects 1730 01:25:12,380 --> 01:25:13,380 are added to it. 1731 01:25:13,380 --> 01:25:16,430 But it would take a really significant kind of 1732 01:25:16,430 --> 01:25:19,440 deviation in a particular new capital project 1733 01:25:19,440 --> 01:25:22,140 to radically change this diagram. 1734 01:25:22,140 --> 01:25:23,990 - Follow-up, Councillor. 1735 01:25:23,990 --> 01:25:25,380 - Thank you, thank you for that answer. 1736 01:25:25,380 --> 01:25:27,400 And actually, I'll just go to the previous ones 1737 01:25:27,400 --> 01:25:29,270 because I'm quite sure it's gonna be faster for 1738 01:25:29,270 --> 01:25:29,660 you 1739 01:25:29,660 --> 01:25:32,000 than for me if you could please send me the link 1740 01:25:32,000 --> 01:25:33,150 to the column graph. 1741 01:25:33,150 --> 01:25:33,980 Thank you very much. 1742 01:25:33,980 --> 01:25:36,340 And more questions, no more comments? 1743 01:25:36,340 --> 01:25:37,280 - Great, thank you. 1744 01:25:37,280 --> 01:25:40,630 Looking for any other comments, questions? 1745 01:25:40,630 --> 01:25:42,050 Okay, not seeing any online. 1746 01:25:42,050 --> 01:25:57,400 We'll open this for voting. 1747 01:25:57,400 --> 01:25:58,200 - Opposing the vote. 1748 01:25:58,200 --> 01:26:01,170 Motion carries, six to zero. 1749 01:26:01,170 --> 01:26:02,030 - Okay, thank you, everyone. 1750 01:26:02,030 --> 01:26:03,470 We are now on to confidential items, 1751 01:26:03,470 --> 01:26:05,870 looking for a motion to go into closed session. 1752 01:26:05,870 --> 01:26:07,660 Councillor Frank, Councillor Mereberg, and great. 1753 01:26:07,660 --> 01:26:18,550 Thank you, and okay, thanks for voting. 1754 01:26:18,550 --> 01:26:20,430 - Opposed in the vote, motion carries, six to 1755 01:26:20,430 --> 01:26:22,510 zero. 1756 01:26:22,510 --> 01:26:23,970 - Okay, just give us a moment to move people 1757 01:26:23,970 --> 01:27:51,990 around. 1758 01:27:51,990 --> 01:27:54,290 Okay, we're back in public session. 1759 01:27:54,290 --> 01:27:56,850 We'll look to Councillor Frank to report out. 1760 01:27:56,850 --> 01:27:58,260 - Thank you, I'm pleased to report 1761 01:27:58,260 --> 01:27:59,550 that we made progress for the items 1762 01:27:59,550 --> 01:28:02,160 for which we went camera for. 1763 01:28:02,160 --> 01:28:04,730 - Thank you, looking for a motion to adjourn. 1764 01:28:04,730 --> 01:28:06,400 Councillor Frank, I'll second. 1765 01:28:06,400 --> 01:28:11,050 All those in favor of adjournment, any opposed? 1766 01:28:11,050 --> 01:28:12,320 - Motion carries. 1767 01:28:12,320 --> 01:28:12,670 - Thank you.